L. RON HUBBARD THE MAN THAT I KNEW

It is only the movement of the tone arm that will tell you this pc is assising charge and unburdening his case.

(If true it would make it easy for a totalitarian government to stop processing :) )

Something of a generalisation, especially as I have taken out of context :)
I have certainly used more than the Tone Arm in observing the pc's progress.

But I have ended process on other very good indicators. Phone sessions and some objectives seem to work that way. From about '54 to about '57 meters where not used. (I think this is remarked on in <I>Dianetics '55<D>)

But then I am not working with the sort of processes mentioned here, or with pcs with heavy attention on past (perhaps famous, or Scientology) lives or on so called OT levels.

Hi, Ant
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Such quality practitioners/auditors though are not the norm and the only safe way to see charge blowing is with the tone arm.

My unmetered Rub & Yawn procedures using obvious physical discharges (yawns, sighs etc.) as the sole indicator of charge blowing (and therefore whether to continue on with the process or not) seem to work well with people completely untrained in Scn as anyone can see if they have started yawning, are still yawning, or have stopped yawning while doing the procedure.

Paul
 

marty

Patron with Honors
Paul, Ant, Alan and others.

I agree with your sentiments on using indicators to observe charge coming off. I have no quarrel with you on this.

Book one auditing is where I originally cut my teeth and with having audited hundreds of hrs at it and many pcs I am quite adept on the subject of indicators and charge.

So valuable and rewarding was that experience I believe a Scientology grades auditor and especially the NED auditor would do very well if they began their training at this level. So many of their technical flubs I have observed would have been avoided if they had learned to audit originally without a meter.

Basically what has happened here is that my post has been taken out of context.

My post was in response to a question about how Scientology deals with the dub in case. The essence of my answer to that was that TA action on the processing is recorded and considered senior to other indicators that are available.

If you know what charge coming off a case looks like and you are familiar with using a meter you will by experience have noted that there is a correlation between amount of charge blowing and the TA counter.

It is therefore a way of mechanically recording session to session charge coming off the case in addition to what the auditor might say is happening. It is also there fore a means of indicating to somebody studying the folder where the pc was going well and where he wasnt irrespective of what anybodies oppinion might be about that pc's progress or even the pc's oppinion of his progress.

Charge blowing and there fore TA motion is an indicator of the pc being able to have a viewpoint on his case and itsa it.

The dub in case is pretty much overwhelmed by his case and is so much in it he has almost no viewpoint on it.

With the dub in case you can get an apparency of case gain happening and even physical indications that charge might be blowing and if the pc seems happy and winning you may well leave it at that and say the pc got his monies worth and you have done your job.

This can go on for a very long time before you and the pc on reflection realise that not much has changed.

The TA counter though would tell the real story and a practitioner of integrity would look at changing his tac on the case so as to get the pc running some real charge.

This was the point of my post. The meter in competent hands can be a valuable tool for gauging progress and this is particularly important in the situation of the dub in case.

There is a plus side I suppose to not using a meter. Nobody can come along later and look through the worksheets and accuse you of not getting charge of the case. You can proudly point to your pc's success story of how he discovered in your sessions he was audited by JC and was blowing up planets with Xenu. He's doing great!
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
People who are serious bonkers need the 2D FPRD form.

Hope that helps! :D

Is that the 2D FPRD form that starts:

By getting this 2D FPRD what 2D are you escaping from and that we (Scio) are attempting to trap you with?

:D
 

Good twin

Floater
Is that the 2D FPRD form that starts:

By getting this 2D FPRD what 2D are you escaping from and that we (Scio) are attempting to trap you with?

:D

OMG Alan. You're so right! However, if you really want to get out of a 2D you can always get L11. To some it is known as the "New Wife Rundown".:thumbsup:
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
ethics presence

The part where you speak about being able to detect Ron's presence, his vibrations, so to speak, I would experience the same thing with the lady captain of the Freewinds, do not recall her name. She emitted a lot of energy.


When I was in the Sea org you felt and smell't the presence of Sea Org staff, as it was usually an unwashed uniform mixed with cigarettes and body odour, bad teeth. Yeah 'ethics presence' from a mile!!
 

cockatoo

Patron
This of course is why many people, myself included are interested in Scientology. For no other reason than potential ability/awareness gain.
This story highlights why the Holy Grail of workable tech. is so precious.

"Ron announced that he wanted to give an auditing demonstration of exteriorization. And maybe that’s what put everyone off of it, they [were] a bit scared of it. Not even George Wishlow got his hand up. And George was no person to not come forward when he was interested in something. But in that instant I thought “Oh well if nobody else wanted the opportunity it might not happen again” so my hand shot up. So Ron smiled at me and called me over to the stand and my life changed.
H did a technique of giving commands to my foot and receiving commands back, and turning a few energy masses white and so on –and so on. Next thing I told him that I was exteriorized and he said “good” and he moved me around the room.
The tremendous perceptions that I was struck with -the weird sensation sitting there above sixty people, and I could see them all clearly below me. I was up near the ceiling where Ron had moved me.
And there was Ron addressing my body. And I could see my body there and I could see Ron there. I could see the whole thing much, much clearer than I could through my eyes.
‘Ts was all happening and everyone was watching the demonstration and I was at the ceiling (chuckles). It was an incredible experience. And he moved me around and moved me out back to the road. I found that I could move through the wall and I could see through the wall. There’s all sorts of things that I can do. And he moved me around and got me comfortable and said “Do you want to come back into your body or stay outside”."
 

Veda

Sponsor
This of course is why many people, myself included are interested in Scientology. For no other reason than potential ability/awareness gain.
This story highlights why the Holy Grail of workable tech. is so precious.

-snip-

A story from over fifty five years ago, apparently taken from Scientology promo, may or may not be an example of out of body experience - an experience which, IMO, is universal to humanity and predates Scientology - but, it is an example of an attempt at the exploitation of psychical phenomena, an exploitation about which the book 'Mind Race' cautioned. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=239573&postcount=60

The piece of early 1950s "tech" described - which can be traced to earlier sources and is not original with Hubbard - is not representative of the overall "tech" of Scientology which, in almost sixty years, has yet to produce one actual Clear or one actual Operating Thetan.

However, the "tech" has created an effect, and seems to have glued a number of souls to Ron&the Tech for the indefinite future.

Exploitation of real or apparent psychical phenomena, and exploitation of real or apparent catharsis, are two of Scientology's most interesting - and disturbing - traits.

An example of exploitation of the process of abreaction (catharsis) http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/abreaction is provided in this scene from 'Star Trek 5' - unfortunately for his grateful minions, the "savior" had a hidden agenda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk7IUl3FoTY
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
The Effects of Group Hypnosis and Contradictory Stories from Others

It really is amazing what a person can do when they believe they can do it, or what is possible under group hypnosis. There are many documented cases of persons claiming this sort of thing occurred in group hypnosis, and none of the hypnotists ever claimed to have some spectacular "Mind Ability" to do it - they were honest and attributed it to hypnosis.

Funny thing is, when I worked in Treasury AOLA, I met MANY of the former Scientologists who knew Elron. Except, of course, NONE wanted to be called a Scientologist. Their accounts to me were quite, quite different from this one. One man told me that the "research" consisted of trials on no more than one or two people. (not exactly a "random" or "fair" sampling, is it?) The majority of the processes had no effect at all, but some would leave them feeling quite sick. An old policy had promises these poor guinea pigs free auditing forever. But there wasn't an org anywhere who would give it to them.

Many people I was on the PAC RPF with were "Guinea Pigs" for the Running Program. The personal stories I heard was it made them quite sick... one woman in particular, I recall, was forced to continue it until the point of requiring medical care. She was forced to sign an affidavit of release, of course. Yet of all the "inside stories" I heard, these same people successfully completed the program. Well, duh, if you're being held prisoner against your will and your release is conditional to "successful completion", I guess we were all rave successes, weren't we?
 

Good twin

Floater
It really is amazing what a person can do when they believe they can do it, or what is possible under group hypnosis. There are many documented cases of persons claiming this sort of thing occurred in group hypnosis, and none of the hypnotists ever claimed to have some spectacular "Mind Ability" to do it - they were honest and attributed it to hypnosis.

Funny thing is, when I worked in Treasury AOLA, I met MANY of the former Scientologists who knew Elron. Except, of course, NONE wanted to be called a Scientologist. Their accounts to me were quite, quite different from this one. One man told me that the "research" consisted of trials on no more than one or two people. (not exactly a "random" or "fair" sampling, is it?) The majority of the processes had no effect at all, but some would leave them feeling quite sick. An old policy had promises these poor guinea pigs free auditing forever. But there wasn't an org anywhere who would give it to them.

Many people I was on the PAC RPF with were "Guinea Pigs" for the Running Program. The personal stories I heard was it made them quite sick... one woman in particular, I recall, was forced to continue it until the point of requiring medical care. She was forced to sign an affidavit of release, of course. Yet of all the "inside stories" I heard, these same people successfully completed the program. Well, duh, if you're being held prisoner against your will and your release is conditional to "successful completion", I guess we were all rave successes, weren't we?

Exactly! This is why the purif and Objectives are at the beginning of the Bridge. Both actions require tremendous endurance and persistance and the only way out is to become convinced of the value of the action. Once you've achieved the ability to escape a grade chart action by spewing the appropriate advertising forward to the next victim, you are permitted to move on to the levels that the last shill was advertising.

It's worse than you think. It's Scientology. :yes:
 
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G

Gottabrain

Guest
Great point, Twin. Good insight. I hadn't looked at it that way, but you are absolutely right. It's all part of the mind control brainwashing thing.

Plus the fact that when someone has to work very hard for something, investing time, effort or money, they don't want to admit that their efforts were wasted.
 

Blowdown

Patron
After reading that , i've reached the conclusion that dennis is equally the charlatan and lunatic that hubbard was.
 

tiptoethrutheminefield

Patron with Honors
Sad

To me that tape is sad and many of the posts on this thread are sad.

My husband's friend Ron was on the jury in the Richard Ramirez case. Poor guy. Anyway, he told my husband that when Ramirez (the NightStalker, serial killer of dozens of innocent couples in Los Angeles) walked in the courtroom the first time, he,Ron, was turned around talking to someone, but he felt this incredible presence behind him and when he turned, Ramirez was being led in by the guard. He said he felt waves of something "coming off" RR.

Explanation for the effect? Probably, we all retain animal instincts that tell us when we are in the presence of a predator. Secondary explanation: all the other people in the room who were looking at RR knew who he was and understandably were "awed" by such a monster--thus, the "deer herd" effect and suitable frisson.

Exteriorization? Could be dissociation. Could be a real phenom, but since it can't be consistently reproduced nor independently verified, it falls in the same category, for me, as Creationism.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
The part where you speak about being able to detect Ron's presence, his vibrations, so to speak, I would experience the same thing with the lady captain of the Freewinds, do not recall her name. She emitted a lot of energy.

Small frame. Blond. Very high energy. Sharon Webber ?

Back in the day....she was a dear friend.....and loved.

I still love her - LOL !
 
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