L Ron Hubbard's abuses and violence

Sindy

Crusader
Just to make it clear.

Hubbard is the SOURCE of the ideas that Scientololgy, the Sea Org and the organization are "based upon". They are based on these closely and exactly, just as Hubbard intended. He is fully responsible for the creation and all resultant activities of that which HE set into motion.

And, any person who accepts the ideas, think with them, runs with them, and "applies" them are aso fully responsible for what they do with those ideas NOW.

Without Hubbard there would not be the ideas nor the organization that various idiots could participate with and contribute to. He is fully responsible for it. Without him there would be NOTHING in terms of Scientology. All of these mindless followers would have instead found some other "absolutist", simplistic, tightly boxed-in, and fanatical system to attach themselves to.

Without the true-believing followers who devotedly and avidly accept and follow his statements, orders, plans, ideas and "command intention", there would also be no Scientology. These people are also fully responsible.

It isn't one or the other. Hubbard and the followers are EACH fully responsible for perpetrating the scam.

Miscavige is actually just another "follower", who in his unique case also "wears the hat" as the dictator of Scientology, just as did Hubbard.

Hubbard and the followers are two sides of the same coin. Without the other, the whole thing would/could not exist.

It is incorrect to try to portray one or the other as "the sole cause" or the "primary cause" of the bullshit known as Scientology.

I don't know what DM would have become had Scientology not existed. A street thug or an asthmatic puny, sick kid bullied by his peers. Who knows. All I know is that Miscavige is not a beneficiary of Scientology. His life is not better because of it - in the end. No matter the apparencies, he is not and never will be, living the Life of Reilly. As unlikable as he may be, he is still, himself, a victim of the cult.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I don't know what DM would have become had Scientology not existed. A street thug or an asthmatic puny, sick kid bullied by his peers. Who knows. All I know is that Miscavige is not a beneficiary of Scientology. His life is not better because of it - in the end. No matter the apparencies, he is not and never will be, living the Life of Reilly. As unlikable as he may be, he is still, himself, a victim of the cult.

And "victims" of all sorts of abuse have a long history of often perpetrating the same or similar abuse on others! :yes:

When it comes to "ideologies", any "true believer" is a "victim" of the mindset he or she so readily accepts and adopts as the "pattern for understanding all-that-is". But then, when applying the tenets of the faith, with dedication and conviction. they simply become another ABUSER who harms a great many more "victims". The victims often become the abusers. Such is true with Scientology. It is sort of "pyramid pattern".

While each avid Scientology participant IS "a victim" of the Scientology philosophy and tightly-controlled Scientology organization, each is ALSO, to some degree, an ABUSER. Granted some "abuse" more than others.

The OSA staff member or shill obviously causes more abuse through the spreading of lies, manipulation, overwhelming lawsuits, and noisy investigations of innocent people than some friendly org receptionist. The longtime reg or recruiter obviously causes more abuse than the quiet gal who files in CF. The top PR staff do more to abuse through "intentional deception" than an "examiner". The stern Justice Chief who initiates and approves endless suppressive person declares, ordering disconnection or else, obviously effects more harm than a "Data Chief" who collects and compiles statistics for the organization.

But in the end, the "victims" ALL also function as "abusers" to some degree. They ALL contribute to the scam.

This thread seems to concentrate on the "abuses", based on the exact orders, policies and advices of Hubbard, and upon his own consistent nasty behavior over his life. And, THAT IS a valid and interesting area of examination. No matter how these people following Hubbard may also be "victims". :biggrin:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
It's clear, it's clear! and it's also off topic. This thread is mainly a compilation of doctrine and events. It is not about how we are all fully responsible, etc., etc. :)

Didn't you say that once already in response to the SAME post of mine? See:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...s-and-violence&p=631935&viewfull=1#post631935

Practicing TR3?????? :confused2:

I didn't SAY IT AGAIN. Synthia+ simply commented on the same post that YOU earlier commented on.

Get into PT! :biggrin:

You are sort of "cleaning a clean". :whistling:

Of course, it is a free discussion board and you can repeat yourself as much as you like (which when it comes to your posts of facts and quotes, I DO LOVE and appreciate greatly)! :happydance:

The idea that the abusers are also "victims" simply involves a "further perspective". It doesn't invalidate any of what is pointed out on this thread, it simply adds "balance" and further "context".
 

Veda

Sponsor
Under financial abuse - A taste of Hard Sell tech, from another thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...cribe-a-world-of-coercion&p=631438&viewfull=1

Here are references that are GOSPEL and that are in EVERY reg's and recruiter's "hat pack". These references are DRUMMED into the heads of regges and recruiters. They are crammed on these OVER and OVER and OVER, until they AGREE with every (bogus) statement made by Hubbard. They are drilled over and over to be able to "think with this data" and "use this data" to FORCE parishioners to pay and start services. Some get VERY GOOD at this.

Hubbard was right below when he said, "when that one fact becomes real it all falls into place". It does. If you BELIEVE, if you AGREE, if you are convinced, and if you are "certain" that "Advanced Courses are the most valuable service on the Planet" and that "Advanced Courses rehabilitate the Thetan to his OT abilities and last forever and give immortality", THEN you will stop at nothing to take EVERY PENNY from every prospect. And, often, you will GIVE every penny that you have - because you have "bought into the deception".

Here are CHURCH DOGMA, or Scientology "scriptures", that all Scientologists, and especially regges and recruiters, are brain-washed into accepting and agreeing with:

Hard Sell

If the Captain does not know that Advanced Courses are the most valuable service on the Planet he will not be able to understand HARD SELL. Therefore he must realize: That life insurance, houses, cars, stocks, bonds, college savings, all are transitory and impermanent and based on things not surviving, or on things that are in fact being destroyed.

Advanced Courses rehabilitate the Thetan to his OT abilities and last forever and give immortality.

"Hard sell" is based on knowing and promoting in this line (TRUTH!) and not being reasonable about people who want "other things" or "other practices". There is nothing to compare with Advanced Courses. They are infinitely valuable and transcend time itself.

L. Ron Hubbard
from Flag Mission Order 375
14 August 1970


It is necessary in writing an ad or a flier to assume that the person is going to sign up right now and he is going to take it right now. This is the inference. One does not describe something, one commands something.

You will find that a lot of people are in a more or less hypnotic daze in their aberrated state, and they respond to direct commands in literature and ads. If one does not understand this, and if he doesn't know that Dianetics and Scientology are the most valuable services on the planet, he will not be able to understand hard sell or be able to write good copy.

So realize that you are not offering cars or life insurance or jewelry or stocks or bonds or houses or any of the transitory and impermanent things which are based on things which are not surviving or on things that are in fact being destroyed. You're offering a service that's going to rehabilitate him.

Hard sell means insistence that people buy. It means caring about the person and not being reasonable about stops but caring enough to get him through the stops and barriers to get the service that's going to rehabilitate him.

That is the sole reason for our use of surveys and promotion and marketing in the first place.

When that one fact becomes real it all falls into place and it should be a short step then for a copywriter to produce an ad that attracts, interests, creates want and sells Scientology products and services.

L. Ron Hubbard
from HCO PL 26 Sept 79 III Copywriting


-snip-
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
I've said essentially the same thing three times. :)

In my opinion it is not good to force people to be all the time in "present time" - in fact I find it insane. It is so important to look at our history in order to prevent the same mistakes we did again and again. Not to think about and to plan the future is nonsense too.

Love
Markus
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
This thread seems to concentrate on the "abuses", based on the exact orders, policies and advices of Hubbard, and upon his own consistent nasty behavior over his life. And, THAT IS a valid and interesting area of examination. No matter how these people following Hubbard may also be "victims". :biggrin:

Yes, that is the idea, to pull together stories regarding Hubbard and info that is scattered all over the net and perhaps not as readily available as DM's abuses. It was a long time ago and the number of personal accounts is limited, but I am prepared to research if people are interested.

When I was a scientologist, Hubbard the man didn't mean as much to me as he seemed to for others around me, perhaps because I was young and he was just part of the fabric of life I experienced. My only direct connection with him was when I was a 'guinea pig' PC on some processes he C/Sd and to be honest that was the most profoundly devastating auditing I ever had, with distressing after effects.

When I first started reading stories about him on the net I was shocked that someone with such a history held the lives of so many thousands in the palm of his hand, that he had the ability to make others blind to his darker side and true intentions. As someone mentioned previously it seems that somehow his physical and mental abuse was not seen as such by those around him in those early days, it was just not given great importance because of the enormity of the wonderful humanitarian goals that bound the group around him and the charisma of the man himself.

Those abuses did exist however, and just about anything DM is accused of can also be seen to have already been done by Hubbard. It's an interesting subject.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
From Tamasin on OCMB http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=41348&view=unread#unread

I do not know whether or not it was strictly forbidden that you could not name LRH as an SP or an anti social personality, or speak thoughts or have opinions about Hubbard.But, at that time I was not prepared to find out. I had seen enough people thrown into lower conditions, locked up, overboarded,on a whim by LRH to know to keep my mouth shut. The only way I got out was by keeping my mouth shut. I have NO doubt in my mind that if I had said what I really felt about Hubbard back then, I would not have left the Sea Org alive. Do you understand?

I never had auditing, but I did get a sec check and I know my life depended on it. I was 12 years old.

Whatever LRH said and what LRH did are very contradictory.

Putting it bluntly LRH was only to be afforded praise, unless you wanted to be overboarded or locked up.LRH also had a group of loyal Officers who rallied round to get him out of trouble where ever he went, and I do believe some would have killed and died for him.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Some more posts from other threads:

To what extent did Hubbard's alcohol and drug consumption, and his amoral "Do What Thou Wilt" personal philosophy, contribute to his abusive tendencies?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25258-Whiskyface-Miscavige&p=627989&highlight=vice+kings

From 'Terra Incognita: The Mind':

"The best stimulant is Benzedrine. In its absence an overdose of coffee will do."


From 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (1950):

"Opium is less harmful [than alcohol], marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect..."


From a 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lectures (1952):

Lecture 27: "The body - He has never used it. He's taken care of it."

Lecture 33: "There isn't any reason it [the being] shouldn't drink all the liquor it can hold... be perfectly free to use the body in any way he chooses."


Ron Jr. from 'Messiah or Madman?' (concerning the 1950s):

"My whole life I've always marvelled at his capacity to consume alcohol and remain upright and coherent. A fifth of Myers dark run was like two aspirin to dad...

"He [Hubbard Sr.] would sit at his typewriter late at night and boost up on drugs and hit way at the top, and just write like crazy. He could type 97 words a minute with four fingers. That was the maximum the old IBM electric typewriter would go. When he got into one of these drugs trips, he'd write until the body just collapsed.

"That's the way he worked. Usually what he had written in a burst would then be allowed to trickle out to the public, the classes he taught. It just wouldn't show up right away."


'Challenge', a poster on ESMB, and an old timer who knew Hubbard, and even smoked a joint with him in 1953 in Phoenix, has written of Hubbard's drug use in the 1950s. Alan Walter, Clear #8 and graduate of the first Class VIII course, wrote of his drug use in the 1960s.


Hubbard's bottle a night at St. Hill, and how it was discreetly discarded the next morning: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=72911&postcount=11


From 'Keeping Scientology Working' (1965):

"We will not speculate here on... how I came to rise above the bank."


A few excerpts from the John McMaster interview in the book, 'Messiah or Madman?' (McMaster was "the first real Clear"):

"...In all the years of working for him I found that he absolutely despised people for being Scientologists."

McMaster commented on an encounter with Hubbard at St. Hill, when he urgently needed to relay a message:

"Well, it was about mid day. He was just getting up. He was a night owl. Anyway, I got up there and he was in his bathroom, which was attached to his bedroom. He came out and I was surprised at the color of his body. It was grey. He came out nude.

"And there on the table was one of those enormous bottles of Gin."

On the Apollo, McMaster witnessed Hubbard's drug supply, "It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!"


From Aleister Crowley's 'The Book of the Law':

"We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit; let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of Kings: stamp down the wretched and the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.

"...I am the snake that giveth knowledge and delight, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs. They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self...

"...The Kings of Earth shall be the Kings forever: the slaves shall serve.

"Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; and destroy them utterly."

The 'Law of Thelema' is "Do What Thou Wilt." For Crowleyites, its "Bible" is 'The Book of The Law'. http://www.lawbright.com/logdos/crow.jpg

From one of Jack Parsons' letters to Aleister Crowley, re. Hubbard: "He [Hubbard] is the most Thelemic person I have ever met..."


And from Jack Parsons, Hubbard's "Magic(k)al partner" for a time in 1946. Parsons wrote this poem, which appeared in 1943, in the 'Oriflamme' Journal of the O.T.O:

"I hight Don Quixote, I live on Peyote, Marijuana,
"Morphine and Cocaine,
"I never know sadness, but only a madness,
"That burns in the heart and the brain.
"I see each charwoman, ecstatic, inhuman, angelic, demonic, divine.
"Each wagon a dragon, each beer mug a flagon
"That burns with ambrosial wine."


Some more links re. alcohol and drugs:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/bts-or-dts.txt

http://www.holysmoke.org/dp000/16.htm


There are two tapes that come to mind where Hubbard appeared to be inebriated. One is a 1952 'PDC' lecture where he goes on about "Liberty, Equality, Eternity," and the other is - I believe - an FEBC tape, from around 1970, where he shouts, "Communista! Communista!'


Regarding the original Class VIII lectures on the ship:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?6608-Hubbard-on-Xenu-Class-8-course

What you do not get here are the numerous breaks in the lectures.

Sometimes a ship's horn would drown him out, some times he went into a violent burst of profanity, sometimes he got annoyed that someone was not paying total attention, or coughing. He would verbally abuse them (Hank Laarhuis)

if they coughed.He would have the tape wound back and continue with the delivery.

Listening to this again makes one realise that he was completely "away with the fairies".

The slip-ups (DC-8 with propellers etc) can be picked up quite easily.

Interesting that he is into the "the people will obey you" routine, "we own the planet" (Did TC use this as his mantra?).

The sad thing is that he completely believed his fantasies were reality.

I suppose that is one of the liabilities of a chronic drug history.

When you see the photos of him when in hiding, he looks a wreck. This is a man ravaged by self-abuse and personal neglect.

Clearly he "freewheeled" down the tone scale into hiding.

Maybe GOLD, SP Hall and the RPF are Incident 111 ? :hysterical: :hysterical:

You really had to be there, at that time, in that place, Corfu, Oct, 1968 - the Original Class VIII Course was a complete continuous implant from beginning to end.

The overboards, the lack of sleep, the poor food, the chronically unsafe environment, the threats, the invalidation, the evaluations of what to run, what to think about your case, violated every aspect of the Auditors Code and ALL other Scio Codes.

The hours were from 7.30 am.......until long after Midnight - every day. Sleep deprivation abounded. (I handled this for myself by putting an "in session" sign on my cabin door and taking a 3 hour nap.)

The stress level was enormous - the amount of continuous violence, hatred, contempt and make nothing of emanating from LRH and the Commordore Staff - of each person there was incredible.

One could say that this was in actuality started in September, 1967 - in Las Palmas - it was then that the sleep deprivation and brutality began......slowly it got worse.......the SO people on the ship began to become shadows of themselves - this can be easily observed in the BBC interview of the crew in early 1968.

Very little auditing or training took place on the crews during this period. Mostly quicky stuff.

Alan
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Veda said:
Some more posts from other threads:

What you do not get here are the numerous breaks in the lectures.

Sometimes a ship's horn would drown him out, some times he went into a violent burst of profanity, sometimes he got annoyed that someone was not paying total attention, or coughing. He would verbally abuse them (Hank Laarhuis)

if they coughed.He would have the tape wound back and continue with the delivery.

Listening to this again makes one realise that he was completely "away with the fairies".

The slip-ups (DC-8 with propellers etc) can be picked up quite easily.

Interesting that he is into the "the people will obey you" routine, "we own the planet" (Did TC use this as his mantra?).

The sad thing is that he completely believed his fantasies were reality.

I suppose that is one of the liabilities of a chronic drug history.

When you see the photos of him when in hiding, he looks a wreck. This is a man ravaged by self-abuse and personal neglect.

Clearly he "freewheeled" down the tone scale into hiding.

Maybe GOLD, SP Hall and the RPF are Incident 111 ? :hysterical: :hysterical:

Hadn't seen this , thanks.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
From the Comments section on a Village Voice article:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/12/smersh_scientol.php


As hubbard's steward it was my job to
serve him his meals. I didn't prepare them or plan the menu, I just set
the plates in front of him. One evening, I set the plate down and
removed the cover. And there was this hush at the table and a few
people exchanged knowing glances. I was clueless, just went about my
business. At 3 a.m. a knock came at my door. A guy told me I was
needed on the well deck. You'd think the late hour would have been a
red flag, but I was a good follower of orders, so I went to the well
deck. I was met by two thugs who took hold of me and frog-marched me to
the gate -- the one that opened to the water. I was unceremoniously
dumped into the Malta harbor. I passed dead rats, dead dogs, feces and
lots of other debris on my way to the wharf. I climbed out, went to my
cabin, put on dry clothes and pretended nothing had happened. I was
never told what was wrong with hubbard's dinner or why I was to blame
for it.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
From http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25780-FROM-ORIGINS-TO-OFFLOAD&p=643054#post643054


We used to have to wash and check every lettuce leaf with gentian violet to make sure it was clean. As LRH was so fastidious about every single mote of dust even, cleanliness was high on the agenda of the galleys, and any stomach bug would have resulted in a loss of performance, so it was important to LRH that we had high standards of hygiene, especially in the galleys.

However, he was too obsessed with cleanliness, and every crease in his shirts had to be ironed to perfection, every floor polished so you could see your face. I recall having to polish the floor just outside his office and I was trembling as he was only a few feet away and his door was open. He didn’t acknowledge my presence at all, and I remember Tony Dunleavy in an office behind me and LRH in front and I felt just like Cinderella, on all fours polishing the floor. Then out of blue, for no reason that I could see, LRH lost the plot and stood up, wiped everything off his desk with one long sweep, thumped the table and roared. And I mean ROARED. I jumped out of my skin… never ever in my life then, or since have I ever felt such rage. Truly, truly terrifying, especially to a small 12 year old. I scuttled away as fast as my legs could carry me. I never did find out why he was so angry, but quite often if he had these tantrums, some poor C/S below decks would be punished in one way or another.

However, there were many more “grown ups” who scared the hell out of me, and talked to me like I was a piece of shit on their shoe. People like Norman and Maria Starkey, Kerry Gleason, Dede Reisdorf, Doreen……., There were members of the crew who were members of the Clique Elite. These were so called “Officers” who made it their business to become one of the “in crowd” with the Commodore’s Messengers, or LRH himself. People such as Jill and Kerry Gleason, Kima and Tony Dunleavy, Capt. Bill, Gerry Armstrong, Norman and Maria Starkey, Bill Franks, The Siberskys. I can see now, that is a lot of cases this was probably a survival mechanism. I had seen a person thrown over the side of the ship on LRH’s orders for some transgression or another, and this terrified me. LRH stood up on his deck, with his messengers either side of him, watching the scene unfold. This was enough to scare the wits out of anyone, so I never, ever did open my mouth again to complain, I just put up with my lot. However, what I did begin to do would lead to the next phase in my life.

I was scared of the Commodore’s Messengers, and knew by now that I was not going to be one because I had wanted to leave the ship, so I had immediately signed my ostracisation warrant. They seemed to take great delight, (and with such relish) in handing out LRH’s orders. It was extraordinary how much power these kids had because we were to view them as being LRH himself. What they said was supposed to be coming directly out of LRH’s mouth. This led to abuses already highlighted by other people in their own accounts.

I will never forget the images of them cow towing to him, actually holding his ashray for him when he smoked his cigarettes. When he gave them an order to relate, they had to know it verbatim, and would run from A to B to deliver it; they also had to relate the responses back to LRH verbatim, but I also remember them barking orders to us as though coming from LRH, but by this stage they really believed they had power and were abusing it.

Arriving on the ship, I had very little in the way of clothes or shoes, and after about three months had completely run out of sanitary ware. A kind person or two allowed me to have some of theirs, but in the end I started pinching it. I pinched a pair of trousers from someone in the dorm, and some sanitary ware from another. As a result I was put to work cleaning out punkerlouvres. Now if anyone has seen these, we had to crawl through them and dust them out. This was very, very dirty work and not without its dangers either.

Unfortunately, around this time LRH devised the Rehabiliation Project Force (RPF). In addition, he devised the RPF’s RPF. Due to the fact I still wanted to leave and had become a little delinquent, I was of no use to them, and was so very obviously not eligible to become a Commodore’s Messenger (thank the Lord), that short of off-loading me, I was perfect fodder for an RPF guinea pig.

I was therefore one of the first RPFers (whoopee). As I still wished to leave, and didn’t appear to be reforming, I was then put on the RPF’s RPF. Being on the RPF meant having to wear black boiler suits, black arm bands, working strenuously doing labour around the ship all day, and studying in the lower hold at nights. It also meant not eating until the rest of the crew had eaten and cleaning up after them. We were also not allowed to speak to any crew member unless spoken to by them first.

However, there was no reforming me, I wanted to go back to my mother and family. Another time, a dear man called Bruce had fallen headlong in love with a girl called Nancy who worked in Mimeo. Nancy was also a sister of one of the Commodore’s messengers so what happened as the story unfolded would definitely have got back to LRH fast.

Bruce’s affections were not returned, and this unrequited love (and I am sure the conditions we were living under at the time) led to him having a nervous breakdown. As many ex and current Scientologists will know, when a Scientologist suffered what was known as a Type 3 breakdown, they were put on “baby watch”.

This was where a round the clock babysitting service was put into place, so that the person was never, ever left on their own for their own safety until they had been handled. Bruce was locked up in a cabin in the Forward Well Deck.

At this time, I had been RPFd, RPFd, and was locked up in the chain locker of the ship for three days on the order of LRH via Hannah Eltringham. I could hear Bruce ranting and raving upstairs, and at one point when someone was escorting me to the toilet, Bruce peed through the keyhole. I heard his screams and he ripped up a mattress with is bare hands and his teeth. He pulled wood panelling off the walls of the cabin, and in the end there was nothing left in there. I heard all of this going on, but all I could do was absorb it for what it was.

I had nothing left; I was drained, numb, a shell of my former self. I had lost everything about me. If you had pinched me, punched me, thrown me on the floor I would not have cared anymore. I was spent. Find my ruin…. hah…… LRH had ruined me by breaking down all my defences, my energy, my very being.

After three days locked up in the chain locker, terrified that the anchor would be lowered with me sitting on the cold, iron smelling, wet shackles would take me with them, I was released into imprisonment in the laundry room to await offload, finally !! Robin Scott flew back with me to St. Hill where I had to petition LRH for permission to rejoin my mother in the S.O.

In the end, I guess we all dealt with things in our own way, and luckily my way was to stay alive and to survive. I recall LRH having coined a song whilst I was on the Apollo, and I have never forgotten it because in some ways it epitomises how he treated so many people who would not conform with utter disdain.

It goes something like this and I apologise if I don’t get it exactly verbatim:-
“WHO CARES ABOUT THE FATE
OF THE JERK WHO CAME TOO LATE
IF HE WILL DRINK CYANIDE
HE SHOULD NOT EXPECT TO THRIVE
WITH TRIGGER FINGER CURLED
MAN SET OUT TO SHOOT THE WORLD
BUT INSTEAD HE SHOT HIMSELF
SO LET’S LEAVE HIM ON THE SHELF
FOR HIS WORLD WAS GOING DOWN, DOWN down to die

LORD SAID I…. WE’RE GOING UP WHILE THE WORLD GOES DOWN
WE WEAR A SMILE WHILE THE WORLD WEARS A FROWN
WHILE OTHERS ALL DIE
WE ARE VERY ALIVE
SO WHY NOT JOIN UP AND SURVIVE”

Going back to the Apollo for a moment, one must never forget a young boy, about the same age as me at aged 12 who was locked up on LRH’s orders in the twin screw locker room at the aft of the ship. We are not talking about a “safe” place at all, just a ledge in a loud, noisy screw room where you could see the water churning below. I know his name, but to protect his identity will not mention it here in case he should wish to do this himself one day. He was screaming and shouting to be let out. He was imprisoned against his will, and absolutely terrified. How long he was in there, I have no ideas, but ethics was being meted out I can tell you!! Wherever you are L, I do so hope you made it and are happy.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
Thank you for starting this thread FTS :thumbsup:

I met Hana at a symposium about Scientology in 2010 in Hamburg. She is a wonderful handsome and honest person. The interview which you posted above was recorded after the symposium. Here is her speech from the symposium which in my opinion is even more powerful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd00GtwXcYQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmF9Tpqqw_U


Love
Markus

Thank you Markus. What an amazing lady. I am blown away. She is the sort of lady who the COS label an SP. But her and many others who have that label, are wonderful people. I would like to know her.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
The first interview on the below video is of Hana Eltringham:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhULw6qarW4

In a post on ESMB, Alan Walter, Mission holder and student on the original Class VIII course, remembered an incident on the ship involving Julia Salmon. It's at the bottom.

John McMaster, from a 1985 interview:

"He [Hubbard] got the technology to the point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me how he was putting all these 'square ball bearings' on the beginning of the assembly line, and then turning them into 'round ball bearings' at the other end. That was his idea of 'standard tech'."

The following is provided for any lurkers, who might be wondering where the cruelty in Scientology originated:

First, an excerpt from Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo, Class XII, from August 1986.

This excerpt concerns events from the late 1960s:

"He [Hubbard] could be capable of incredible cruelty. On the ship there was an old man on the Royal Scotman who he made push a peanut round the decks with his nose. He had to get down on his hands and knees, he had to go round the deck, quite a long distance in a race with one or two others also in trouble. The first one back got let off and the last one got a double penalty.

"It was really tough on this old guy, Charlie Reisdorf. The surface of the deck was very rough wood, prone to splinter, so after pushing peanuts with their noses, they all had raw, bleeding noses, leaving a trail of blood behind them. I not only saw it but the entire crew of the ship was mustered - a mandatory attendance - we were required to watch this punishment, to make an example of it for the rest of us. Reisdorf was in his late 50s probably. His two daughters were messengers, they were 11 or 12 at time and his wife was there also.

"It was hard to say which was worse to watch: this old guy with a bleeding nose or his wife and kids sobbing and crying at being forced to watch this. Hubbard was standing there calling the shots, yelling, 'Faster, Faster!'. It was indignity, degradation and breaking a person's will, and making people watch. It was disgusting...

"They used to have people locked in the chain locker, including small children. It was very dangerous because if the anchor started to slip and started running out, it would probably turn a body into a pulp in no time at all...

"He [LRH] had a birthday party on March 13, 1968; there was a woman who he ordered locked in the chain locker. During the party he had brought her out. She was filthy, covered with dirt and rust, and had not been allowed to wash or change clothes - she had been in there for a week... he brought her out to the party. He said he was giving her a reprieve and permitting her to come to the party, as if that was a nice gesture. She wasn't allowed to change. She was brought to the party and had to stay, and later was returned [to the chain locker]... it was flaunting her degradation...

"Why did people stand by?...

"From time to time, Hubbard would cancel such activities like the chain locker, and blame it on someone else... He would start such pronouncements with, 'It has just come to my attention...'

"The length of time for children would vary, but no one was less than a day...

"Reisdorf [peanut pushing] affair - if someone tried to do something, it would have made it worse. Hubbard said that maritime law prevailed... He said that under maritime law, he had total power over everyone on the vessel..."


And one brief excerpt concerning events from the late 1970s:

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI

And this from Alan Walter, from a 2007 post:

"...there was one stuck picture that would not go away. Behind it was at that time an unthinkable thought.

"Ron had Julia Salmon thrown overboard... Julia was... terribly overweight, and could not swim.

"The people who threw her overboard struggled to get her over the side; she was terrified; she kept crying out "I cannot swim!" On her way down she hit the side of the ship - I could hear her screams - it was obvious she was injured and drowning.

"The people on the deck all stood around too afraid to do anything. Fearing to originate any action less the become the target of LRHs displeasure.

"I ran and jumped over the side and rescued her. I then pulled her over to the ladder that led up to the ground level of the dock........it was about 20 feet straight up. She could not climb the steps. I had my shoulders under her butt pushing her up..... no one still had come to help.......but at the top of that ladder stood LRH filming us.....such evil.......


"Anyway after an immense struggle with Julia's help I was able to push her up to the top of the ladder....finally some help arrived.

"Over the years the unthinkable thought pushed forward more and more....it was 'that I observe that LRH was demonic at that time'. I did not want to know that, did not want to believe that.......that was too incredible to be believed - even for me - I did the usual make nothing of myself....'you're seeing things' 'what do you know' 'you've got overts' - much easier to blame self than confront what is..."


Perhaps the worst abuse by Hubbard, and Hubbard's Scientology, was psychological abuse, especially when inflicted "gradiently" and mixed with "wins" that (the person believes) will ensure his, and Mankind's, survival and well being for the next endless trillions. This abuse was preceded by DECEPTION, and deception, while not abuse, in and of itself, is an essential ingredient in the Scientology "mix."

To keep a person glued to Scientology it's necessary to maintain the proper ratio of - to put it simply - "positives and negatives." Currently, Scientology's dictator Miscavige is not doing so, having added too much lacquer to the lacquer&solvent mixture to produce an effective glue.


this is amazing. so glad i have seen it . i love the quote on the vid - "the e-meter measures only emotion. it cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy". Can anyone tell me please - why the hell did Scientology die a natural death at the end of this vid. I recall doing Ned. I liked it at the time. I had an assist on Grief. I had all sorts of backtrack pics. I have no fucking idea if they were real or not. I paid for 3 intensives though. Luckily at staff rates. So if I saw a picture from 20000 BC and felt something about that pic the auditor could "run it out". I loved my auditor..but..what a lot of bullshit. I am so pissed right now. LRH you were the biggest asshole that ever walked . I have stored my materials somewhere. I will be living there in a week. I will be burning KSW for starters and keep going from there
 
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onthepes

Patron with Honors
After seeing the "Shrinking World of L Ron Hubbard" can somebody PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me why Scientology did not end right there and then . This vid is brilliant and has enough to destroy Scientology . However, it persists. AAAAARGGHH. I would love an answer
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
After seeing the "Shrinking World of L Ron Hubbard" can somebody PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me why Scientology did not end right there and then . This vid is brilliant and has enough to destroy Scientology . However, it persists. AAAAARGGHH. I would love an answer

Scientology persists because not everybody has seen this vid and of course because Scientologists are trained not to watch "entheta" :duh::angry:
 
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