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LAPD Investigating Alexander Jentzsch's Death

Discussion in 'Fair Game and Disconnection Victims' started by Michele_B, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    The other thing to consider is that Alexander may have doctor-shopped, which has become more prevalent over the years. Whereas, doctor-shopping has been known to have taken place with individuals addicted to opiates (pain killers), it is predicated by an individual's subconscience need to end enormous pain & misery.

    Karen said an anesthesiologist prescribed the medication to Alexander. Typically, an anesthesiologist is only involved in postoperative pain management, so Alexander would have had to undergone a surgical procedure to receive medications from an anesthesiologist.

    Another answer may be that Alexander had doctor-shopped.

    In no way is this meant to be disrespectful of Alex or Karen, but people in extreme pain over disabling back injuries, have been known to "doctor shop", that is, seek out more than one physician to prescribe them pain killers, without one physician knowing the patient has already seen a physician, because the medication prescribed by the first doctor wasn't enough to ease the patient's pain & misery.

    I have a friend who did this after suffering injuries in a car accident. He had 2 doctors. He received a letters from both physicians last month notifying him that he no longer can see them, that, as of January 2012, all physicians in the U.S. have to report to the DEA, the names of patients being prescribed opiates.

    My friend's name came up in a report that he had gotten meds from 2 doctors, and now my friend faces a possible criminal indictment, even though he did this in an effort to end his pain & misery.

    It's possible that Alex may have gotten pain meds from doctors in Texas & California. Regardless, it seems that a case could be made for medical malpractice, if this was the case.
  2. BunnySkull

    BunnySkull Silver Meritorious Patron

    I had considered this but the fact Alex was without much money and no insurance, that makes doctor shopping near impossible due to the cost. Doctor shopping is usually done by the rich and medicaid patients, it doesnt fly with private insurance. Some people will doctor shop and cover costs by selling part of their script too.

    The other strange thing is unlike other opiates methadone is known for not having nearly the same euphoric effects as other opiates. Among opiate users and abusers methadone is usually not preferred. It is a long acting pain killer, but it doesn't give the same euphoric buzz that is associated with oxycotin or vicodin (2 very popular drugs among doctor shoppers). This is another reason it's used on opiate dependent patients at methadone clinics. So if doctor shopping was a factor it was an odd choice in some respects.

    I'm sure if Alex realized he would no longer be able to afford to see a doctor to get his prescription refilled the future could have been a scary thought, he probably dreaded the pain he would suffer without.

    Maybe he had insurance coverage through his former job? With COBRA (govt program) he could have maintained his health coverage by paying out of pocket, which is an expensive proposition without a job. But from the time frame as I understand it it would seem likely he would have recently lost his coverage due to the job loss.

    I'm sure his lack of funds and trying to find work played a factor in all of this.

    I can't say I was shocked Alex called OSA to get the ok to accept a wog job. My friend who his Ex-SO said he was required to report to the cult about any jobs he got after leaving the SO. Just because you manage to leave the SO doesn't mean they give up on trying to control your life. I'm sure Karen well knows - I can't imagine they were all flowers and sunshine to her after she left the SO and had to try and support and raise Alex on her own.
  3. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    That's not entirely true. Because of the state of the U.S. economy, and millions without medical insurance, numerous free clinics have popped up throughout the U.S. where patients get free medical care & free medication.

    They have 5 such clinics in Los Angeles.
  4. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Bunnyskull for another *Leather Bound Edition" write up.

    There was only one Doctor that prescribed everything for Alexander.

    Mark A Ledoux M.D.

    All medical records were subpoened by the Coroner today.
    The case is FAR from over.....

    I find it interesting that Andrea the wife that co-operated so closely with Office of Special Affairs, that she denied me one last look at my own son's dead body at the mortuary, did not care enough about Alexander to tell OSA that he was on a cocktail of drugs and methadone. She was a phone call away. She knew the OSA line only too well.

    She was busy dancing in clubs and living it up with her girlfriends as Alexander's pneumonia and drug addiction progressed towards terminal.

    Office of Special Affairs on the band wagon to see the enforced disconnection from his declared suppressive person mother, did not even pull any string to find out his dire state.

    So much for OSA investigative powers !
    Why care for the life of a young boy who served 16 years in the Sea Org ?
    The job is to enforce disconnection from declared SPs and have them spy on their parents and report to OSA !

    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  5. BunnySkull

    BunnySkull Silver Meritorious Patron

    Ah well in my section of the country free clinics are rare. Not to mention where I lived in college ERs and general practice facilities had standing orders - no narcotic medications were to be prescribed, period. If you visited the ER you had to be admitted for any narcotics to be prescribed. General practice doctors were told to refer any patients who might need opiate to specialized pain clinics. I was in the mid-south and prescription pain killer abuse reached pandemic proportions years ago, and the problem still remains.

    Emergency Rooms were actually being clogged up by drug seekers - to the point they were wait times in the double digits and people in real need were being neglected. As a way to stop the madness they stopped almost all narcotic prescription, and the doctor immediately informed you of this upon coming to examine you. I found this out first hand one night at 3am in the ER. The doctor gave the spiel about no narcotic pain medicine. ( I had had a root canal, it became infected and my jaw became incredibly swollen and disfigured - I looked like pain. To the Doc's credit, she took pity on me and got special permission to give me a very small prescription for the lowest milligram vicodin to get me thru till the dentist office opened on Monday.)

    I figure things might be different in other places. People in Appalachia have been traveling in mass to Florida to take advantage of the lax prescribing and huge number of pain clinics or pill mills as they are called. People actually make a living off of trips to Fla, visiting as many pain clinics as possible in a few days, then returning home and selling a portion of the pills at 1000% mark ups.

    Most of my knowledge about methadone and drugs comes from doing a social work internship (250 hours I interned at a hospital) near Appalachia. I can't even describe the amount of harm caused by the widespread addiction to prescription painkillers there. When I was there oxycotin was the big drug, called hillbilly heroin. Within a 2 year period our state went from 0 methadone clinics to 6 filled to near capacity due to the problem. Small towns went from very low crime rates to sky rocketing crime rates due to people trying to pay for their habit. So my statements are colored by the extreme circumstances with these drugs where I worked.
  6. MostlyLurker

    MostlyLurker Patron Meritorious

    It comes to mind John Travolta commenting on one of the many Hollywood drug overdose deaths: "Scientology would have saved his life".

    This of Alexander is a typical tragedy that a Scientologist would pick up as an example of the potential workability of Scientology, should they not know the details:

    "Died on psych drugs? Scientology would have handled his traumatic incident and pain with a couple of Dianetics sessions instead of psych drugs and would have saved his life."

    "He was not in touch with his parents? Scientology would have encouraged communication as the universal solvent of all problems and increased ARC with his dynamics".

    "Scientology would have fixed his marriage with marriage counselling"

    "Scientology would have helped him find, maintain and expand his job"

    ... and so on.

    Those STUPID scientologists believe they have answers to everything - they think with fixed ideas and false data - they believe the most absurd lies told by their cult and they do not look at the products they actually produce: pain and death.

    What happened to Alexander is CRIMINAL by their own standards.

    I want to see John Travolta commenting on Alexander "Scientology would have saved his life".

    John Travolta, where are you?
  7. AnonSunshine

    AnonSunshine Patron with Honors

    Let me tell you that neither free clinics, nor Community Health Centers prescribe Methadona. They can not. As I told previously, only a medical doctor with DEA license can prescribe Methadone. Also, Methadone is not easily found in the streets.
    The control with Methadone is much more than with any other pain killer.
    Rarely for pain doctors prescribe Methadone!!!
  8. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Why did Stan Gerson look so happy in that picture with Heber at Alexander's memorial service?
  9. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    When I was on lines at the San Diego Org, back in the 70's, I got very sick......I went to the Org for some help. I was so sick that I passed out on the stairs and someone carried me home. A student was assigned to me to give me a touch assist. I could barely breathe. He gave me a touch assist for 8 hours nonstop trying to pull me out of it. Someone finally decided I should go to the emergency hospital. Someone drove me to the hospital where the medics put me on a breathing machine and gave me antibiotics. It only took them a few minutes to help me to be able to breathe again.....the antibiotics took care of the rest of it. I'm just lucky someone finally made the decision to take me to the emergency hospital.

    Alexander wasn't so lucky. Either the people around him were unbelievably stupid or else they wanted him to "end cycle". I can't see it any other way.....unless Alexander just wanted out, so he took enough drugs to go to sleep and end his misery.

    To my knowledge, you don't have to have insurance to be admitted to an ER in an emergency.

    I can't imagine having someone sick in my house without checking on them periodically and taking care of their needs. It's beyond my comprehension that they just left him in his room unattended, to die. :no:
  10. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    It is the middle of the night. 3.35 am, I can't sleep and I just clicked on this thread.
    Thank you Foti.
    Jeffrey Evans who let Alexander die in the next bedroom has a 5 year old son.

    I wonder in my head if he ever put himself in my position. How would he feel if his boy died ?

    He did not have ANY feelings for me. Blocking me every step of the way, no last viewing, no ashes, no participation, he and his family took possession of Alexander right to the last moment in time.

    Here's Evans with his 1st wife at the Celebrity Center wedding.
    Here's the guy who found Alexander "unresponsive" and took his boy to school before calling 911.​

    Pictures 1 and 3.
    Always good to get mass on who we are talking about,.
    He now weighs an additional 100 lbs.

  11. Sharone Stainforth

    Sharone Stainforth Silver Meritorious Patron

    Dear Karen,

    I have purposefully kept well out of this thread, but I am reading, daily.I know it must be very hard to do what you are doing in your time of grief and I do applaud you for sharing your inner most thoughts and feelings about what has happened to Alexander.

  12. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Pain centers and clinic are generally owned and operated by anesthesiologists, who are MDs. This is their alternate cash cow. I have no doubt that Alexander obtained his medicines from a pain doctor.
  13. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    It has always hit me as a major fault and flaw of Scientology that "following and adhering to ethics & justice policies" was actually viewed as FAR MORE important than real care, honest compassion, genuine communication and simple basic humanity.

    Reading this brought something to mind. When one looks at the world's great models of humanity (i.e Mother Theresa, etc.), there is a common thread of sacrifice and concern for alleviating the suffering of the victimized and helpless. In Scientology there is no similar component. For Hubbard & Scientology, the goal was and is "making the able more able"!

    True humanitarians are out working to help those who CAN'T help themselves, who have been the harmful effect of some great catastrophe and who are now largely "useless". To Hubbard and Scientology doing such things is viewed as "contributing to a downstat", and violates the strict Scientology maxim, "only reward an upstat". To Hubbard and Scientology the people that a legitimate humanitarian assists are seen as DBs, PTSes, and out-ethics downstats who "pulled in the motivators" (and basically deserve their horrid situations).

    As long as I remember activities like the Volunteer Ministers Program and sending them to areas of great catastrophres were ONLY for PR PURPOSES - to make Scientology "look good", and to possibly attract MORE paying members. Helping the unable is so against so much of basic Scientology ideas.

    To me this attitude of placing all attention on "making the able more able" is so NOT part of any valid "spiritual endeavor". In this regard Scientology behaves as conservative right-wing Republicans! It also behaves along the lines of darker forms of Magick where the aim is always to gain power for self, and to do anything to anybody else as long as YOU "win" and get what you desire. Modern mega-corporations often follow that same model, and which political party do they largely support?

    I learned various lessons from reading and studying people like Buddha. One of the highest virtues that one seems able to achieve is to selflessly help to reduce the suffering of the weak and disenfranchised. That is the exact opposite of Hubbard's, "make the able more able". Hubbard makes it clear in many places that it is a waste of time to help the weak and unable, and that Scientology will eventually come back and help THEM later when the job is done. Who actually believes THAT? The fact of the matter is that Scientology has a deep bias against the weak and unable built deeply into the philosophy. Oh, it parades around as something else, but it IS what it is.

    As far as Scientology goes the TOP CONCERN has only and always been "protecting Scientology no matter the cost in terms of time, money and PEOPLE". As I see it Karen, you son's death was directly linked to THIS. Scientology has far more concern for "protecting and helping the Church of Scientology" than it did for helping your son. But then, that shouldn't be a big surprise though either.

    I remember when my children were forcefully disconnected from me. Of course I was angry and upset, but quite quickly I found myself thinking, "what else did I think could or would happen"? It is all written out very clearly in Hubbard's policies on ethics, justice and administration. If anyone reads the justice policies with an unbiased mind, it is OBVIOUS that the TOP CONCERN is protecting and expanding Scientology. And also, Hubbard makes it VERY CLEAR that in Scientology the Scientology GROUP is FAR MORE important than any individual. Always.

    While it is very horrible what happened to your son, the neglect by those who SHOULD have cared for him, to me, sadly, is not at all difficult to understand. It is clear and obvious WHY it happened knowing the subject and consistent behaviors of Scientology.

    This is just another reason why it will be a great day when there is no longer such a thing as a Church of Scientology that ruthlessly follows Ron's model of a "better world" (that conforms entirely to Scientology ethics, admin & justice policies).
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  14. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    I didn't know that about pain centers, Mary. Thanks. Karen named the doctor that provided Alex ALL of his pain medications.

    I've been dealing with several physicians & specialists over the last several years due to my lower back injury, and every physician took the conservative approach to prescribing pain meds, not offer them up like giving candy to a kid.

    I don't the facts behind the multiple pain killers given to Alexander, but it seems excessive and dangerous.
  15. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline here. He got the prescriptions while he was in Dallas (I assume) but was still taking the meds in LA. How much time in between?

    In my (limited) experience with prescription meds like these, they have always been severely limited in amounts, and always said "No Refills". Perhaps things are more lax elsewhere, or the Dr. can just 'phone it in'. But still, who was then filling the scripts, and who was paying for them?
  16. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    I don't know the dates of each prescription or how far apart they were prescribed so I can't say whether it seems excessive or dangerous or not. Certainly there is an epidemic of excessive prescriptions being written but I know doctoirs are being held more accountable these days for what they write and, as you mentioned in another post on this thread, the government is cracking down on "prescription shopping".

    It's hard to speculate without all the facts. Glad to know Alexander wasn't prescription shopping. Anyone find a connection with Mark Ledoux to WISE, CoS or Narconon?
  17. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    It long ago became obvious to me that the image of the group was far more important than any individual in the group. Some very bright people who know nothing about scientology have pointed out operating that way never works out for those involved.

    Many of us have seen, for instance, child molestation sweep under the rug "for the good of the image of the group" while the victim is left with the scars.

    And a few have - first hand - seen the unnecessary deaths caused by trying " to protect the group ".

    But, one gave 10, 20, 30, 40 of the best years of their life dedicated to this group ? Doesn't matter. The image of the group is more important than any individual.

    But one "donated" $10,000, $100,000, or north of $1,000,000 ? Doesn't matter. The image of the group is far more important than any individual.

    ( Does the term " cannon fodder " come to mind ? )

    Perhaps much of the evil of the cult comes from trying to " protect the image of the group above all else ". The day is coming where the world will not tolerate this behavior any longer.

    Meanwhile, we all mourn the loss of our friends, family & loved ones that fell prey to the cult and paid far too high a price for it.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  18. BunnySkull

    BunnySkull Silver Meritorious Patron

    No schedule II narcotics (like methadone) canNOT be "phoned in" - they require a prescription written in triplicate. 1 copy for Doc, 1 for Pharmacy, 1 for DEA. They have much more stringent requirements than most common prescriptions and are tracked. Most have "no refills" and you must come to the doctor once a month to get a new paper script. Some pain clinics are require patients, to cut down on abuse and people selling meds, to come in for random "pill checks" where they check to make sure you have the exact # of pills you should if taking the meds as instructed, they will also do a urine screen to ensure the patients are actually taking the meds and not just selling them.

    The pain clinics came into vogue after regular doctors and specialists didn't want the headache or danger of dealing with narcotic meds (particularly schedule II drugs - morphine, oxycotin, fetanyl, methadone, etc..) These pain clinics popped up and specialized is prescribing the stuff. Many in my region and Florida became known as pill mills and were the source of huge amounts of Rx drugs into the community. Some pain clinics are very reputable, many are not - but all are cash cows.
  19. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Sharone.
    I very much appreciate your kind words.
    Death is so irreversible.
    What can you do ?

    A Big hug to you and one day when I am in the United Kingdom, I will take you to dinner.


  20. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    I couldn't find any connection with him, his wife, or parents, who all live in Texas.
    He's had a couple of bad reviews, but nothing to tie him to the cult.