Larry Brennan on David Miscavige

x-x

Patron with Honors
Hi all,

I was reading the collected works of Larry Bennan, and I came across the following:


It was expected that the structure hide the fact the Hubbard really was in control of organized scientology and was getting money for same. It was expected that MCCS also hide the fact that the CMO was now taking over the running of all of organized scientology including having full control of the lower organizations. It was wanted to have MCCS develop a plan to give Hubbard and CMO complete control, to funnel millions of dollars to Hubbard, ...

The overall organizational structure was greatly messed up due to the fact that it was hiding Hubbard’s tight-fisted control of the corporate empire, in addition to the fact that by that point in time millions of dollars were secretly funneled to Hubbard

...

Of note is that during this time frame (1981), and while directly under Miscavige orders, I personally managed the legal side of the removal of two very senior officers in organized scientology who were known as Executive Directors International. Signed but un-dated resignation notices were used to help Miscavige secretly control these two individuals and remove them if he no longer liked them while keeping the pretense that Miscavige was not in fact in control.


Near the end of summer 1982 I was promoted with David Miscavige’s approval to run Special Unit as “Special Unit In Charge”. Many details of who ran different functions in Special Unit, as well as what really happened in the changes from the GO to Special Unit and OSA are covered in my writings.

During the approximately one and one half years that I was Special Unit In Charge I also held the position known as “Watchdog Committee Member X” (“WDC X”). The Watchdog Committee has been listed in organized scientology promotional materials as the senior most body within the “church” that oversees all major operations of organized scientology. There were approximately a dozen people in this governing body but they were not at the top as organized scientology states. Secretly they were run by both Miscavige and Hubbard.


He also talks about his time in the late seventies at GO WW, this is a bit out of sequence but a more minor point.

I also spent a great deal of time during this period helping develop a religious cloaking strategy for organized scientology so as to help it avoid the need to comply with many different laws regarding the treatment of employees, taxes, practice of medicine and more. I wrote many of the
programs and orders to get scholarly opinions to say scientology was a religion and then use these opinions to get recognitions in support of the overall strategy.


And he finishes off after he left staff with over 17 years as a public member going up the Bridge:

I remained a public scientologist, although inactive for the last couple of years, until some time in 2001, rendering an approximate total of 28 years on staff or as a public paying scientologist. In that time period I completed their “OT Levels” of counseling up through what was called level “OT VI” and was on level OT VII for several years, spending over $400,000 for myself and my wife. After years of doing very costly scientology services I found that I was not achieving any of the big promised gains from scientology services..

Comments:

1. This is quite remarkable as a time line, it says effectively that David Miscavige was running Scientology directly under LRH in the early eighties, rather than having staged a take over in the time after his death in 1986.

I like to be pan determined to DM, but I think I would like to see a change of management. Of course I am not as extreme as some in ESMB. However now I don't know what to think. C of S is also showing pictures in their promotional material of the entrance to Fitzroy House in London with a plaque acknowledging those in the field who contributed to its purchase in the 1950's - ideal org style if you like.

2. Brennan is a little over the top in his description of his executive past. Many people got positions in top strata and most only lasted a little while. As I was directly affected by his Special Unit mission that disbanded the GO I can give an opinion that he threw the baby out with the bathwater.

3. As with many who have left Scientology he has done a diametrical shift in his opinions. I am wondering if he was kicked of OT 7 as "not Clear" as it is in that time period early 2,000s. I won't add to the invalidation of his case, its another guy who fell of the Bridge into the abyss, in the non-interference zone of the second wall of fire. I'd say he got wins if he spent 17 or so years at it. As it happens the majority of people who do the OT levels get a lot out of it, to say the least. But invalidation is a funny thing. I don't condemn Brennan as a fellow OT even if his actions now invite it.

4. As for money being funneled to LRH, what a laugh. If you read the stories about LRH for instance by Mayo, you see that he had modest taste, he lived in a simple apartment. The point is surely whether the money was redirected away from Scientology aims to personal aims. Obviously it wasn't. Hubbard simply wanted to safeguard it from betrayal of the likes of Brennan, obviously a possibility in the early days of a movement. Hubbard's will left a small amount to Mary Sue, $1 million, and donated his home at Saint Hill to the Church. (more about this in a minute). Hubbard derived a considerable income from his writing and Battlefield Earth, and his Mission Earth series would have been ample to pay his living costs in the eighties.

5. Finally the "religious cloaking": The religious scholars approached came to the conclusion that Scientology is a religion. These are some very eminent people, I worked with some of them in the eighties in a religious liberty group which met at a prominent theological college. The issue is that Brennan has lost his viewpoint as a thetan. This happens in other religions from time to time. The majority of people in Scientology do know they are a spiritual being, they don't put bodily concerns as the number one priority which the cult of materialism does.

It seems some on the Economics Committee of the Senate think charity is only the relief of poverty, and that ideas of excellence such as religion and education mean nothing in themselves (unless its for the relief of poverty).

In my submission to the inquiry, number 8, I quote Jesus:

“While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table.

(next the disciples put the public benefit test to Jesus)

When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."

Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.”
Gospel of Matthew Chapter 26: 6-11

It is perfectly legitimate for a religion based on formless truth to create an image which others can understand it by. Why are cathedrals built? Many private schools use mansions for their premises for the same reason, as a symbol. Saint Hill is fairly modest in relation to some of these places. LRH was quite happy to share his home with hundreds of students and staff of the then Worldwide organisation. If he had purely material aims it would have been different, and of course he worked day and night producing a massive library of policies, bulletins and recorded lectures.

I suppose we can expect a predictable result from acolytes of the cult of economic rationalism who may be on that committee. I don't see much threat in Brennan's comments, they seem instead to support Miscavige's legitimacy.
 
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A-non-non-anon

Patron with Honors
x_x said:

Apologism, much?

Plenty of people who were 'in' did stuff they weren't proud of. He's more than made amends.

Have a look at some of his videos from the Hamburg event in September 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpiX-5mG87A

But, y'know, I'll humour you on this

Point 1 - Of course DM was angling to take over before '86. You don't start a coup on a whim, you have the personnell in place first.

Point 2 - Dead Agenting fail.

Point 3 - You say "invalidation", I say Ad Hominem. Apostasy theory is only taken seriously by those with a vested interest in defending cults - J Gordon Melton, Eileen Barker, et al. And if you think he stayed in "because he got wins", then you've quite cearly not read the mountains of personal testimony from others on this boards. Research FLUNK.

Point 4 - Those would be Hubbard's secret bank accounts. Plenty of dox on those - http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865-3,00.html is a start

Point 5 - "Scientology is neither a psychotherapy nor a religion" - L Ron Hubbard, The Creation of Human Ability. I think you need to word-clear "deliberate religious cloaking"


/r/ mods change this misleading thead title.
 

Div6

Crusader
Apologism, much?

<snip good stuff>

Point 5 - "Scientology is neither a psychotherapy nor a religion" - L Ron Hubbard, The Creation of Human Ability. I think you need to word-clear "deliberate religious cloaking"


...

Please note that this was REMOVED in the latest release of the NEW and IMPROVED Basics, which means (according to DM) that it was inserted by an evil transciptionist.....:omg:

Just more fail tech.
 
4. As for money being funneled to LRH, what a laugh. If you read the stories about LRH for instance by Mayo, you see that he had modest taste, he lived in a simple apartment. The point is surely whether the money was redirected away from Scientology aims to personal aims. Obviously it wasn't. Hubbard simply wanted to safeguard it from betrayal of the likes of Brennan, obviously a possibility in the early days of a movement. Hubbard's will left a small amount to Mary Sue, $1 million, and donated his home at Saint Hill to the Church. (more about this in a minute). Hubbard derived a considerable income from his writing and Battlefield Earth, and his Mission Earth series would have been ample to pay his living costs in the eighties.

Word clear: miser.

Many people who are most aberrated on the need for money have little interest in spending it. Dante wrote an evocative passage on "hoarders" in his "Inferno" where he has them paired for eternity with the "wasters".

Hubbard wanted money for himself. He didn't necessarily want to spend it. The "having" was all.


Mark A. Baker
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Word clear: miser.

Many people who are most aberrated on the need for money have little interest in spending it. Dante wrote an evocative passage on "hoarders" in his "Inferno" where he has them paired for eternity with the "wasters".

Hubbard wanted money for himself. He didn't necessarily want to spend it. The "having" was all.


Mark A. Baker

That's a difference between Hubbard and Miscavige, the horder and the waister
 

Lovinglife625

Patron with Honors
LOL

You know, you have access to my email and could have contacted me any time if you had questions, comments or whatever about me.

Instead you make some statements and conclusions about me that have no basis in fact.

For example:

You say:

.....
Brennan is a little over the top in his description of his executive past. Many people got positions in top strata and most only lasted a little while. As I was directly affected by his Special Unit mission that disbanded the GO I can give an opinion that he threw the baby out with the bathwater. .

LOL how exactly am I over the top with the factual statements I made about my postings there? I was on WDC and Special Unit IC for a good chunk of two years and had over 100 orders from Hubbard in that time. You have no clue whatsoever what I did or what he sent me unless you have read it from me. Can you name even one specific of anything I said about my “executive past” that is in any way over the top?

Also, you have your timelines wrong. I never ran any missions to disband the GO. In fact I was sitting in the Guardian’s office when the CMO mission was there to take over and was ready to throw the CMO Missionaires out until the acting Guardian David Gaimen said to work with them. Looking back, I am glad the GO was disbanded.

If you want to know my views on how it got even worse after the GO, read my blog. I have at least one major post on that. The CMO did the missions to disband the GO. Dude, you've got the wrong person, wrong organization and thus the wrong conclusion. By the time I got into Special Unit, the CMO was already running the major GO units. The GO was taken over and its top executives removed.


You said: .....
.....As with many who have left Scientology he has done a diametrical shift in his opinions. I am wondering if he was kicked of OT 7 as "not Clear" as it is in that time period early 2,000s. I won't add to the invalidation of his case, its another guy who fell of the Bridge into the abyss, in the non-interference zone of the second wall of fire. I'd say he got wins if he spent 17 or so years at it. As it happens the majority of people who do the OT levels get a lot out of it, to say the least. But invalidation is a funny thing. I don't condemn Brennan as a fellow OT even if his actions now invite it. .

Again LOL.

Why exactly on a public forum would you try to demean me and say how you are "wondering" if I was kicked off of OT 7 and "not clear"? Not that it is any of your business, but that is completely inaccurate. I was never kicked off of it nor has anyone ever indicated I was not clear. I left for my own reasons which included seeing no value to OT VII and concluding that Hubbard was mad. I resisted constant efforts to try to get me back onto the level.

Your statements about the "invalidation" of my "case", some imagined "abyss" one falls into by being off "the Bridge", how I invite invalidation yet you don’t condemn me is a complete laughing joke to me. It comes off like some "know it all" who pretends to know what is best for me and understand my "case" based on a knowledge base that I reject as, at best, unfounded and ridiculous.

That you feel that way is your right and I respect your right to feel what you feel. That you feel compelled to broadcast your "all knowing" conclusions and judgments about me, when you don't know me, is the joke.

Do me a favor, don’t preach down on me publically judging me based on principles I reject and I will not do the same about you.

Also, I highly doubt your following statement. Do you have some survey or something that even implies this?: “As it happens the majority of people who do the OT levels get a lot out of it, to say the least”.

LOL again on how you say that my actions invite you to condemn me!


You said:

.....As for money being funneled to LRH, what a laugh. If you read the stories about LRH for instance by Mayo, you see that he had modest taste, he lived in a simple apartment. The point is surely whether the money was redirected away from Scientology aims to personal aims. Obviously it wasn't. Hubbard simply wanted to safeguard it from betrayal of the likes of Brennan, obviously a possibility in the early days of a movement. Hubbard's will left a small amount to Mary Sue, $1 million, and donated his home at Saint Hill to the Church. (more about this in a minute). Hubbard derived a considerable income from his writing and Battlefield Earth, and his Mission Earth series would have been ample to pay his living costs in the eighties. .

Your statements betray the fact that you are completely and utterly clueless about how much money Hubbard seized from organized scientology. Learn to google is my best suggestion. I was there and I saw his reps rip off tens of millions of dollars to him while he lied to the public about not taking money from organized scientology. Hubbard trying to protect money from me is the biggest laugh of them all. Hell I did not even make $50 a week.

If you are for real and are just some dedicated scientologist who loves LRH I have no problem with that but I suggest that you really learn what happened as the truth and not some PR cover is what will set one free.


You said:

.....Finally the "religious cloaking": The religious scholars approached came to the conclusion that Scientology is a religion. These are some very eminent people, I worked with some of them in the eighties in a religious liberty group which met at a prominent theological college. The issue is that Brennan has lost his viewpoint as a thetan. This happens in other religions from time to time. The majority of people in Scientology do know they are a spiritual being, they don't put bodily concerns as the number one priority which the cult of materialism does .

I have worked for years, often under Hubbard orders, to push in a religious cloaking even when he said with respect to at least parts it of that it was really to cover making money. I have written many programs and orders about religious cloaking including all the legal rudiments enforced around the world for years. Believe what you want but I know why Hubbard cloaked it in religion. And BTW it was easy to get most "scholars" to say almost anything you want about "religion" by spoon feeding them what we wanted them to see, much of it slanted or outright lies.

That you can assume a position of somehow concluding that "I lost my viewpoint as a thetan" is a laugh. You don't even know me and I reject Hubbard-based concepts of spirituality, a subject I hold near and dear to my heart but choose not to share or have to justify to the likes of you. You have no clue whatsoever my views or practices with respect to spirituality as I do not share them with you. Yet you seem to conclude I have lost my way as if you have some inside knowledge I do not that applies to me or my loved ones.

You don’t.


You said:

.....I don't see much threat in Brennan's comments, they seem instead to support Miscavige's legitimacy.

You have no idea whatsoever what of my "comments" were given to or taken on by the committee. It was done in camera. Beyond about a minute of public recording you don’t know what evidence I gave, what we discussed or what they told me they read. You’re clueless about this yet you make your conclusions as above.

Bottom line, I respect your right to feel what you want, to be a scientologist and/or to admire Hubbard.

Just do me a favor and contact me if you want to know more about me rather that give a whole bunch of belittling, invalidative and unfounded comments about me and what I have done as if somehow you know me or you have some great religious understanding of me.

You don't.

But you did make me laugh a lot so thanks for that:)

Peace.
 

Meccaanon

Patron
Hiall,



In my submission to the inquiry, number 8, I quote Jesus:

.

Holy freaking cow! You'r going to (cough) supplement an argument about DM and Hubbard from the Catholic Bible! How do I begin?

First off, you didn't quote Jesus because there there is not a scrap of his writings anywhere (duh!) I am just being nit picky here, we both know what you meant by that, but It illustrates just how massively flawed your entire epistle is.

Let me say this gently - you can make any argument about anything under the sun by using the Bible. Good things, bad things, and even socially disgusting things (see Lot's daughter.)

Now, I don't know Larry Brennen personally, however after reading many - many descriptions of Scientology history and management "traditions" for lack a better word, I'd say his account seems pretty accurate. I'm sure it's not completely so, nothing really is but the main points jibe quite nicely with the overall narrative of Scientology. Your refute of his account fits nicely with nearly every revisionist account of the movement who would desperately like to see it accepted in the mainstream.

Note above that I criticized the Bible and I have no fear of Vatican hired PIs showing up at my door. I can't say that about Scientology and until I can, your task is hopeless!
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
Horsepucky snipped

This misguided effort to corrupt Scientology history boggles the mind.
Larry is factual and honest. His statements have been proven to be extremely accurate and verifiable.
The motives of the OP are questionable at best.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
X-X is an A-Hole Troll

Dear A-Hole (X-X),

You are an A-Hole!

Zero facts.

Lots of accusation.

Nothing to say.

ZIP!

To follow up on a recent dare - I bet $10.00 that you never post again!

P. S. TROLL !!! Just wait until ANZO wakes up! YOU'RE DEAD MEAT!!:happydance:
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
LOL

You know, you have access to my email and could have contacted me any time if you had questions, comments or whatever about me.

Instead you make some statements and conclusions about me that have no basis in fact.

For example:

You say:



LOL how exactly am I over the top with the factual statements I made about my postings there? I was on WDC and Special Unit IC for a good chunk of two years and had over 100 orders from Hubbard in that time. You have no clue whatsoever what I did or what he sent me unless you have read it from me. Can you name even one specific of anything I said about my “executive past” that is in any way over the top?

Also, you have your timelines wrong. I never ran any missions to disband the GO. In fact I was sitting in the Guardian’s office when the CMO mission was there to take over and was ready to throw the CMO Missionaires out until the acting Guardian David Gaimen said to work with them. Looking back, I am glad the GO was disbanded.

If you want to know my views on how it got even worse after the GO, read my blog. I have at least one major post on that. The CMO did the missions to disband the GO. Dude, you've got the wrong person, wrong organization and thus the wrong conclusion. By the time I got into Special Unit, the CMO was already running the major GO units. The GO was taken over and its top executives removed.


You said: .....

Again LOL.

Why exactly on a public forum would you try to demean me and say how you are "wondering" if I was kicked off of OT 7 and "not clear"? Not that it is any of your business, but that is completely inaccurate. I was never kicked off of it nor has anyone ever indicated I was not clear. I left for my own reasons which included seeing no value to OT VII and concluding that Hubbard was mad. I resisted constant efforts to try to get me back onto the level.

Your statements about the "invalidation" of my "case", some imagined "abyss" one falls into by being off "the Bridge", how I invite invalidation yet you don’t condemn me is a complete laughing joke to me. It comes off like some "know it all" who pretends to know what is best for me and understand my "case" based on a knowledge base that I reject as, at best, unfounded and ridiculous.

That you feel that way is your right and I respect your right to feel what you feel. That you feel compelled to broadcast your "all knowing" conclusions and judgments about me, when you don't know me, is the joke.

Do me a favor, don’t preach down on me publically judging me based on principles I reject and I will not do the same about you.

Also, I highly doubt your following statement. Do you have some survey or something that even implies this?: “As it happens the majority of people who do the OT levels get a lot out of it, to say the least”.

LOL again on how you say that my actions invite you to condemn me!


You said:



Your statements betray the fact that you are completely and utterly clueless about how much money Hubbard seized from organized scientology. Learn to google is my best suggestion. I was there and I saw his reps rip off tens of millions of dollars to him while he lied to the public about not taking money from organized scientology. Hubbard trying to protect money from me is the biggest laugh of them all. Hell I did not even make $50 a week.

If you are for real and are just some dedicated scientologist who loves LRH I have no problem with that but I suggest that you really learn what happened as the truth and not some PR cover is what will set one free.


You said:



I have worked for years, often under Hubbard orders, to push in a religious cloaking even when he said with respect to at least parts it of that it was really to cover making money. I have written many programs and orders about religious cloaking including all the legal rudiments enforced around the world for years. Believe what you want but I know why Hubbard cloaked it in religion. And BTW it was easy to get most "scholars" to say almost anything you want about "religion" by spoon feeding them what we wanted them to see, much of it slanted or outright lies.

That you can assume a position of somehow concluding that "I lost my viewpoint as a thetan" is a laugh. You don't even know me and I reject Hubbard-based concepts of spirituality, a subject I hold near and dear to my heart but choose not to share or have to justify to the likes of you. You have no clue whatsoever my views or practices with respect to spirituality as I do not share them with you. Yet you seem to conclude I have lost my way as if you have some inside knowledge I do not that applies to me or my loved ones.

You don’t.


You said:



You have no idea whatsoever what of my "comments" were given to or taken on by the committee. It was done in camera. Beyond about a minute of public recording you don’t know what evidence I gave, what we discussed or what they told me they read. You’re clueless about this yet you make your conclusions as above.

Bottom line, I respect your right to feel what you want, to be a scientologist and/or to admire Hubbard.

Just do me a favor and contact me if you want to know more about me rather that give a whole bunch of belittling, invalidative and unfounded comments about me and what I have done as if somehow you know me or you have some great religious understanding of me.

You don't.

But you did make me laugh a lot so thanks for that:)

Peace.

Thank you, Larry.
 

Mystic

Crusader
Some scigaggOTs have a bit of sense. Whoever is the implantee bot behind this x-x thing shows but scripted mental activity, not even intelligence. Hubbard-thing lived "simply" because he was on the lam, he was running, hiding, and needed, he thought, loads of cash around to grab for the next get-away.

I have personally known people who have taken suitcases of CASH to Hubbard. I can even name names, and I will not.

Hubbard-thing was also of such low intelligence (again, scripted by his conjurers, unlike x-x who reads Hubbard spew and self implants) he had no idea what to really do with money. It simply couldn't handle it.

There are moments when it appeared he could handle money, but in the end it always fell short.

The end game of all scientology is FAIL.
 
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Doom

Lurking.
I guess if we had any doubts with regard to who or what X-X is and what *motivates* this person,
X-X has just done a "mike ferris".

Trying to DA Larry with that steaming pile was just lame, I could almost hear in the background "the exchange rates".
X-X if you try to now count that as a handled threat, shame on you.

I really held high hopes that you would be worthy, but as it is you have just turned into another "ferris".
 

Veda

Sponsor
Transcript of 19 July 1990 legal deposition of David Miscavige: http://www.lisamcpherson.org/cos/dm1.htm Miscavige was pacing the floor and chain smoking during the entire deposition. Marty Rathbun - his right hand man - was there also. It's mostly obfuscation and evasion but, in a few places, Miscavige had some interesting things to say.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dear A-Hole (X-X),

You are an A-Hole!

Zero facts.

Lots of accusation.

Nothing to say.

ZIP!

To follow up on a recent dare - I bet $10.00 that you never post again!

P. S. TROLL !!! Just wait until ANZO wakes up! YOU'RE DEAD MEAT!!:happydance:

:lol: We haven't gone to bed yet! Are we that powerful?

Larry has made an excellent and factual response to the pile of steaming horse shit that XX posted. Let's leave it at that and not waste any more time on it. It's not worth it.

:dontfeedtrolls:

Let XX go and work out how to use google and the rest of us can do something useful. How about this:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19104
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
To follow up on a recent dare - I bet $10.00 that you never post again!

I'll take it! I assume you are offering even money, in US $.

I don't gamble at all, not even on famous annual sporting events.

The way I see it, if x-x posts again in a week, or a month, a year, whatever, you send me $10. But for me to have to send you $10, x-x has to die first in order to fulfill the non-posting condition. However, we don't even know who he is, so I'll be generous and merely wait 80 years and assume he's dead by then. Although I doubt I'll last another 80 years. . . .

Paul
 
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