What's new

Last straws and dealbreakers

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
A number of posts here have dealt with people's reasons for leaving the cult. I think we all had our "last straws" and that it could be fun to discuss them BUT I wanted to add something. In this, my question to you is: If you were still in, and your own "last straw" moment hadn't arrived yet and you were still figuring it all out, what would be a "deal breaker" if you were to see it?

Here's my example:

If I were still in and all like, doo doo doo, it's ok, I'm having fun, I'm gung ho- whatever-- if I were to go to Gold and see the inward facing spikes, that would be a deal breaker for me. I honestly think that even as interested in it and as into it (CofS) as I was, that just seeing that would be a deal breaker and I'd just stop and say "Whoa! WTF are you people DOING!"

I personally think there are lots of deal breakers like that. So yes, we left for our own reasons and had damn good ones. But what are the ones that we think "Gawd, if I'd have seen this earlier, I'd have been sooo out of there!"?

http://angrygaypope.com/gold/gold_security_gallery/images/fence_blades_fgnd_focus.jpg
 
A deal breaker for me would be the amount of public media reports + anonymous protests.
Even before my own last straw way back in the 80s, I was aware that things were not hunky dory at the top of management, and that Flag was not wonderful for all public and moreso for OOTs.

So, I would just HAVE to read the internet, I could not ignore it. I would have to at least know what these people were saying and why. If this amount of publicity happened way back in the 80's I would have had to read it even though I was not an assertive person then, I was not stupid enough to be told not to look, by ORG masters.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
If I had read the Incident II script on the internet. ( Projecting 75 milliion yrs ago as a right item for anything you could find in your space.) For me it just would've felt like a lie. To know I was going to have to pay a lot of $ for it first in order to later do something more tailored to me. I'd a balked big time ....then left sooner.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
alibi stories

For me, it would have been the constant alibi stories. At some point you realize that you are dealing with an outfit that is full of horseshit.

Pete
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
LRHs death coroners report.
One of the first questions I asked when coming into scientology was what happened to the old man? and the story i was given about LRHs departure bugged me from day one. that report would have sealed it for me there and then.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
LRHs death coroners report.
One of the first questions I asked when coming into scientology was what happened to the old man? and the story i was given about LRHs departure bugged me from day one. that report would have sealed it for me there and then.

That is what sealed it for me. That was the very first thing I looked at on the net - LRH's autopsy report. I got in in mid-1987, in late 2005 after years of never really understanding the death of LRH (and hearing many renditions) that was the first truth I wanted. From there the truths just snowballed.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
If I had seen anyone hitting a junior or physically assaulting them I would have intervened and I would not have stayed. Period.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Definitely the Blown OT's would be one of those deal-breakers.
Also the condition of staff quarters in Leb Hall.
 

FoTi

Crusader
This would do it.

If JT or TC left and spoke out on TV, for sure I would just have to watch it and listen to what they had to say, even if I wasn't supposed to. That would make me stop and think :unsure: and then I would have to do a doubt formula and look on the internet to do some research.......and then....and then....Oh, Oh. :ohmy: :omg: :angry:
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I don't think any ONE thing would have been a deal-breaker: there's always some sort of explanation that could be made. It's the totality. The excuses for lack of expansion. The excuses for lack of OT powerz, the excuses for why Clears don't have perfect recall, the staff who've been on staff for 30 years who are still insane, the lack of implementation of their own policy, the insanity of the fight against "psychs", the science fiction beliefs and the occultist concerns about disembodied spirits, etc.
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
Wherewithall

All the above works for me! Plus- I really like having enough money--yeah-- $$$$ is a biggie for me just like it is for them.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Scientologys hard sell tactics.

Protecting people with "managment Technology" who clearly disrespected 100% LRH standard Technology. Only because they were upstat at that time.

Focusing only on mostly false statistics.

Forced ethic handlings.

Hubbards undemocratic statements.


Disconnection Policy.......

Love

Markus
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
I think the constant badgering via "ethics handling" would lead me right out the door. For a group supposedly "pure" they have a holier than thou attitude that is revolting.
 

altruistichedonist

Patron with Honors
If JT or TC left and spoke out on TV, for sure I would just have to watch it and listen to what they had to say, even if I wasn't supposed to. That would make me stop and think :unsure: and then I would have to do a doubt formula and look on the internet to do some research.......and then....and then....Oh, Oh. :ohmy: :omg: :angry:

So how do we get celebs assigned doubt ?:coolwink:

And ... I've already stated what my "last straw" was in 1995. It was reading, in the quietude of my local library. Bent Corydon's book "L. Ron Hubbard - Messiah or Madman." I never finished my doubt condition. I blew.:happydance:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I was having lunch with a friend the other day and we were laughing about there being MANY potential last straws. For me, I think, some things were easier to rationalize away than others. I remember reading about the RMGRP effort in a magazine (which was not an article sympathetic to CofS, of course) and I actually stood right there and rationalized it and defended the cult's actions. However, there are things that if I'd seen them- truly witnessed them- and people have witnessed them- I'd have been so out of there, cult indoc or no cult indoc. If I'd ever gone into the SO- which I didn't- I could never have rationalized away any beatings or mistreatment of staff as Mick mentions here or the inward facing spikes at Gold.

There surely were a lot of deal breakers and that's because there's a lot of stuff wrong with the organization and there were a lot of things wrong with Hubbard's own actions, some of which are reflected in quite a few of his policies. For me, though, there would have been some that would be impossible for me to explain away even though there were things I did explain away when I was there.

Plus, of course, my own actual deal breaker, where I was talking to them about the fact that I wanted to post to a.r.s. and was doing so. I was not even posting anything critical in those days and it was still "you can't do it" and my dealbreaker came in my penultimate handling where they treated me with contempt while telling me I should do more courses, spend more money, etc. And I thought to myself: These people want more of MY time and MY money and yet at the same time they treat me with contempt? Just what the hell am I doing here? That was mine. For others, it's other things like the Incident II story, ethics handlings, critical books and what is in them.

What I also find interesting is that I can see that one person's last straw is not another person's last straw. It was different for all of us. But I can still see how all that stuff are major fuckups for the cult.
 

auntpat

Patron with Honors
Lucky

I was lucky, my last straw came in 1973. Myself, my husband and friends were Comm Ev'd at the request of a insane mission holder. I thought, "Oh good, this will all get straightened out and handled." HaHa

Scientology Ethics has nothing to do with truth or justice. I had noticed some strange things and this was the proverable straw.
 

Div6

Crusader
I was having lunch with a friend the other day and we were laughing about there being MANY potential last straws. For me, I think, some things were easier to rationalize away than others. I remember reading about the RMGRP effort in a magazine (which was not an article sympathetic to CofS, of course) and I actually stood right there and rationalized it and defended the cult's actions. However, there are things that if I'd seen them- truly witnessed them- and people have witnessed them- I'd have been so out of there, cult indoc or no cult indoc. If I'd ever gone into the SO- which I didn't- I could never have rationalized away any beatings or mistreatment of staff as Mick mentions here or the inward facing spikes at Gold.

There surely were a lot of deal breakers and that's because there's a lot of stuff wrong with the organization and there were a lot of things wrong with Hubbard's own actions, some of which are reflected in quite a few of his policies. For me, though, there would have been some that would be impossible for me to explain away even though there were things I did explain away when I was there.

Plus, of course, my own actual deal breaker, where I was talking to them about the fact that I wanted to post to a.r.s. and was doing so. I was not even posting anything critical in those days and it was still "you can't do it" and my dealbreaker came in my penultimate handling where they treated me with contempt while telling me I should do more courses, spend more money, etc. And I thought to myself: These people want more of MY time and MY money and yet at the same time they treat me with contempt? Just what the hell am I doing here? That was mine. For others, it's other things like the Incident II story, ethics handlings, critical books and what is in them.

What I also find interesting is that I can see that one person's last straw is not another person's last straw. It was different for all of us. But I can still see how all that stuff are major fuckups for the cult.


Claire,

I was thinking about this the other day. What it comes down to is that the Miscavologists are ersatz Scientologists. They are fakes.

How can you tell a REAL Scientologist? Simple. Do they actually FOLLOW the Creed? Take for example this point:

"That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;"


If they would just follow that, the anon troll factor would drop by 90% or more overnight.

But they can't. Because they are not REAL Scientologists. They are caught in a destructive trap, and seek to ensnare everyone else with them.
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
That is what sealed it for me. That was the very first thing I looked at on the net - LRH's autopsy report. I got in in mid-1987, in late 2005 after years of never really understanding the death of LRH (and hearing many renditions) that was the first truth I wanted. From there the truths just snowballed.
that was actually the very first thing I went looking for on the net too.
that story never sat right with me.
 

chipgallo

Patron Meritorious
Cognitive dissonance is stirred up for me in the study materials. After doing the Student Hat and the KTL, I find that Scientology is not organized to be studied by a serious student. By that I mean there are few references to original research and ownership of the work is purposefully obfuscated.

Add in the obvious censorship done over the years and you have a set of materials that must be taken on faith. The line of development, even with the R&D Series (most of which I haven't seen), is clouded.

Obviously there are numerous abuses, criminal behavior by management, etc. which add insult to the injury, but from Day One I have been asking, "where is the research?" DMSMH and SOS would have you believe a lot of it was done prior to publication yet it is nowhere to be found.

Now you can ask whether I would go back if handed a key to the evidence locker. Not with Shorty and the other jackals running things.

Good question, though.
 
Top