Latest BFG post regarding Rinder and DM

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Is it just my view of things or has the quality on here slipped, over recent months, into taking pot-shots at each other? I don't pretend to understand what game the last two posters are playing, but to return to the subject of the thread:

The original post from Emma from BFG was fascinating.

Could DM's empire be about to collapse? Being a declared-in-1982er some of the more modern CofS terms used in BFG's post are unknown to me - I'm not actually even sure what "Int" is these days - is it where senior management "go into" the CofS and stick in there never able to go ext again due to too strong an identification with it? :D

Anyway skipping past the not-understood acronyms and abbreviations, I gathered that there are BBC Panorama programme repercussions.

I said on the evening of the broadcast that the program would land poor Tommy into the RPF - it was a major goof in my opinion. Of course the hapless Tommy was just being a good Scientologist and diligently applying the Hubbo training he'd received, but like so much of Ron's fixed, false ideas, the techniques just don't work and Tommy exposed the CofS as a sinister, threatening bully.

So the outcome is that Tommy is RPFed, in secret, according to BFG and Mike Rinder has blown! Wavey Davey is very exposed now. Taking over Ron's posts was a poisened challace and I'm surprised he has lasted this long. His problem was that he wasn't "Source" like Ron was. So Ron could goof off for periods and leave decisions to others, only for him to come back from his breaks and slap a declare or demotion on those he left in positions of decision-making.

Ron could get away with this because he was self-appointed "source" and therefore unquestioned in his decision-making and simply let down by SPs and DBs.

But poor David inherited a host of unworkable ethics, admin and tech for which he was not "source". All he could do was slavishly follow Ron's unworkable techs.

I believe this is why he has cornered himself into the must-make-all-decisions hell that BFG describes. He does not have the luxury that Ron had of being able to slip off on a cruise, photo-shoot, treasure chase or whatever else took his fancy. If Dave, who has perforce had to take on Ron's being and paranoia, took off and left others to make decisions, not being "source", he would lose what power he has.

Poor DM, poor Tommy, poor Rinder, poor us! Trapped by Ronnie's false data! :eek:

I dream a future where we are all free of Hubb's falsities and even DM can smile freely again and breathe in the pure joy of life! :happydance:
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Phew!! LIONHEART WELCOME BACK!!!

Thanks for coming and bringing ORDER!!!

Actually, there are only a couple of sets of people bickering, and they are mostly isolated.

Cats and dogs, what can you do??? Happens sometimes.

BFG info is VERY interesting. I really hope a change is coming. It sure is in order!!!
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
Int Base

Int base is the former Gilman Hot Springs near San Jacinto, California, and you can find good pics of it on Lermanet.com taken from Google Earth. It is like a Gulag for Sea Org, with prolonged periods of not hearing from family, censored mail and calls, no liberty, 110 hour plus work weeks, etc. DM is prime for government action. See my new thread in Leaving Scientology called "Let my people go". There is huge civil rights exposure, no matter what releases have been signed. He could go away for life for even one conviction on mass civil rights violations.
Time to grab the cash and flee, Davey. Who is on this with me?
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Not as many potshots as there could be, thank goodness.

But it's always good to be reminded of the fact that, really, we're all in this together regardless of differing viewpoints and don't need to be torturing one another.

We're not on certain other boards where effective criticism is measured by how much one can gang up on someone else.

That never has worked, it's never forwarded or caused effective criticism.

One of the things that is part of effective criticism is the spread of information about what CofS is doing, what it has done, what Hubbard did.

The commentary by BFG is utterly AMAZING!!!!

I'm telling you- if I would have read this stuff when I was in an' really gung ho- and really knew that it wasn't a bunch of lies by an SP (the standard rationalization CofS members often use...)- I'd have "blown for good".

Big time.

I showed this to my husband last night and he was fascinated.

He always was of the opinion that the SP rundown sounded really implanty. (he's a tech maven) He told me years ago that amusement park rides are that way...(I do know they're FUN!!) -and this latest just confirms it.

So a hearty thank you to BFG and a welcome back to Lionheart and hugs to everyone else.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Int base is the former Gilman Hot Springs near San Jacinto, California, and you can find good pics of it on Lermanet.com taken from Google Earth. It is like a Gulag for Sea Org, with prolonged periods of not hearing from family, censored mail and calls, no liberty, 110 hour plus work weeks, etc. DM is prime for government action. See my new thread in Leaving Scientology called "Let my people go". There is huge civil rights exposure, no matter what releases have been signed. He could go away for life for even one conviction on mass civil rights violations.
Time to grab the cash and flee, Davey. Who is on this with me?

I sure agree there- I've felt CofS was ripe for government raids for YEARS because of the gulags and their treatment of kids in the SO.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
This is the one area that Dave REALLY sucks ass on. The Internet. He had always relegated this area to others. Now it has come to kick his ass. Anyone who knows enough about how to do stuff on the internet is not going to go along with any plans from scientology. They have to rely on their own to deal with Internet items and the ONLY people who can do that are staff members in the SO that are OT 3 or higher.

There are not that many staff that fall into this category. Any these staff do not know shit about the internet or how to do anything to stop the floods of posts. We could thin the ranks even more by posting higher than ot 3 materials and then nobody would be able to deal with the internet postings. That would totally shut them down.

Brilliant data in that long post from BFG and thanks so much Ems for reposting it. I don't get around the Net as much as I used to and it is very helpful to see the crème de la crème skimmed off and made available.

I want to draw attention to BFG's point here. I had never looked at it like that. What happens if we sprinkle the occasional post here with un-signposted OT8 quotes? Like in the middle of a comment about something totally disrelated?

Example in the middle of the third paragraph of a post here: "I was walking down Hollywood Boulevard by the Test Centre and suddenly realized that I had become aware of who my dog was not and that she would never ever be a cat again, which by the way is the ep of ot e*ght that Ray Mithoff withdrew in 1981 after a week when people started freaking out. Ignore this paragraph guys, it's just a churchie-repellant."

Would such random mentions really tend to make this entire board off-limits? Do the :shark: Net-watchers still care about not seeing materials "above their case level"?

There may be some good reasons for not posting certain things from OT8, or there may not. I don't know. But some here would know.

Paul
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
...

Would such random mentions really tend to make this entire board off-limits? Do the :shark: Net-watchers still care about not seeing materials "above their case level"?

...

Paul

Personally I rather doubt it. There are always exceptions to every rule Hubbard ever made. Especially when it comes to safeguarding the church against SPs. Like the idea that your pc folders are "Priest/Penitent Privileged." Only so long as you're one of them. Once you become not one of the faithful, they may suddenly turn into investigatory material for publicizing the things you least wanted anyone to hear about.

Well, if it is the "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" that a couple of people at OSA Int die of pneumonia but make it possible for millions to make it up the Bridge, isn't that a sacrifice that should be made? Besides, they'll get an very nice memorial goldenrod issue on several notice boards for a week as they pass away. That should make it worth it.

There isn't any great Churchie problem on this site, IMO, anyway. RR gone, the rest are harmless and only slightly annoying at times. I even enjoy talking to some. Mostly I just ignore them. None of them even need to be banned. RR surely asked for it, but he was doing the exact OSA pattern, so be so. At least the rest attempt to appear harmless, and thus, mostly are.

I'd rather concentrate on exposing the facts about the Church and it's operations. The lame arguments by people who have other agendas are only good fodder for better, more in-depth exposures. Sorta makes them defeat their own purpose. I'd actually encourage occasionally answering someone who doesn't seem to (want to) have a clue. Someone who says their personal experiences make no difference, it is what LRH says that matters, etc.

Try it. It can even be fun, if you approach it with the right attitude. And remember Who the hell cares about what LRH says! This is the ex-Scientologist Message Board and it is your personal experiences that prove to you whether there is anything to it or not.

But, if you know any ridiculous or interesting OT level information, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Considering many non-church Scientologists are posting on this board and reading it, I tend to think there is absolutely no harm that can be done by any of the "OT data" that is posted.

To the contrary, I believe in the idea that truth shall set you free.

Other people may have other opinions.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Thanks, Victor. Pretty much agrees with my own thoughts.

Why I think it might be interesting to keep them away is not so much to protect us from their minor interference, as to hinder them from being up-to-date on information being disseminated here that will end up in the hands of people like John Sweeney.

About the only interesting "OT" information I have that isn't broadly available is a recall of some hand-written LRH research notes printed on light-green onionskin that was in the back of a security cabinet down the AO (UK) in 1982-ish when I worked there. It got picked up by some Int mission eventually but had been read by myself and others.

I don't have time tonight to give details but it was weird stuff. It seemed to be part of Incident 2, but from a logistical viewpoint didn't make a whole lot of sense (so what's new?).

Paul
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Is it just my view of things or has the quality on here slipped, over recent months, into taking pot-shots at each other? I don't pretend to understand what game the last two posters are playing, but to return to the subject of the thread:

The original post from Emma from BFG was fascinating.

Could DM's empire be about to collapse? Being a declared-in-1982er some of the more modern CofS terms used in BFG's post are unknown to me - I'm not actually even sure what "Int" is these days - is it where senior management "go into" the CofS and stick in there never able to go ext again due to too strong an identification with it? :D

Anyway skipping past the not-understood acronyms and abbreviations, I gathered that there are BBC Panorama programme repercussions.

I said on the evening of the broadcast that the program would land poor Tommy into the RPF - it was a major goof in my opinion. Of course the hapless Tommy was just being a good Scientologist and diligently applying the Hubbo training he'd received, but like so much of Ron's fixed, false ideas, the techniques just don't work and Tommy exposed the CofS as a sinister, threatening bully.

So the outcome is that Tommy is RPFed, in secret, according to BFG and Mike Rinder has blown! Wavey Davey is very exposed now. Taking over Ron's posts was a poisened challace and I'm surprised he has lasted this long. His problem was that he wasn't "Source" like Ron was. So Ron could goof off for periods and leave decisions to others, only for him to come back from his breaks and slap a declare or demotion on those he left in positions of decision-making.

Ron could get away with this because he was self-appointed "source" and therefore unquestioned in his decision-making and simply let down by SPs and DBs.

But poor David inherited a host of unworkable ethics, admin and tech for which he was not "source". All he could do was slavishly follow Ron's unworkable techs.

I believe this is why he has cornered himself into the must-make-all-decisions hell that BFG describes. He does not have the luxury that Ron had of being able to slip off on a cruise, photo-shoot, treasure chase or whatever else took his fancy. If Dave, who has perforce had to take on Ron's being and paranoia, took off and left others to make decisions, not being "source", he would lose what power he has.

Poor DM, poor Tommy, poor Rinder, poor us! Trapped by Ronnie's false data! :eek:

I dream a future where we are all free of Hubb's falsities and even DM can smile freely again and breathe in the pure joy of life! :happydance:

Good to see you on the board, LionHeart. You seem to be at the place where you can understand why people do what they do and you might even have the answer for that, thus your generosity towards all.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
I especially loved the "Stress Free Living" part. Trying to learn Stress Free Living from CofS is like trying to learn flower arranging from the manufacturers of Agent Orange.

Just don't join staff or volunteer for anything or go to Flag, and, most important, screen all your calls.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Int base is the former Gilman Hot Springs near San Jacinto, California, and you can find good pics of it on Lermanet.com taken from Google Earth. It is like a Gulag for Sea Org, with prolonged periods of not hearing from family, censored mail and calls, no liberty, 110 hour plus work weeks, etc. DM is prime for government action. See my new thread in Leaving Scientology called "Let my people go". There is huge civil rights exposure, no matter what releases have been signed. He could go away for life for even one conviction on mass civil rights violations.
Time to grab the cash and flee, Davey. Who is on this with me?

If you have listened to him carefully at the recent events you might pick up the idea that he has a plan in place to move himself and his remaining followers to South Africa. I think everyone in the Freezone should move there too and knock on his door and ask to borrow a cup of sugar and two eggs.
 

everfree

Patron Meritorious
If you have listened to him carefully at the recent events you might pick up the idea that he has a plan in place to move himself and his remaining followers to South Africa. I think everyone in the Freezone should move there too and knock on his door and ask to borrow a cup of sugar and two eggs.

Is the part about SA a joke? If not, what makes you say that? I seem to recall Hubbard having grand plans to make large base in SA in the sixties.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Is the part about SA a joke? If not, what makes you say that? I seem to recall Hubbard having grand plans to make large base in SA in the sixties.

eggs=yolks=jokes=Dm in South Africa

Hubbard created an adoring crew in the S.O. so he could drop his SA plans of fiefdom.

If DM does not succeed in institutionalizing Scientology worldwide, or in the US, similar to the Mormon Church (can't you see Joseph Smith written all over him, down to the last Dedex?), he will have to cut and run. If that is the case he will most likely choose South Africa as his new base. He could use the Ron quote, "Out of SA will come the next great civilization because the fullness of the tech will be used there" (not word for word quote, but close enough). Believe me, people would follow him, esp, if he quotes Ron.

Or he will be done in by someone close to him (shades of the past) and that thug will take the people and the gold and shift to SA.

I believe the plans are already in place, not to say there may not be some other alternate location too.
 

Mary

Patron with Honors
If DM is appying "Responsibility of Leaders" PL, then he would certainly have several contingency plans in place.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just don't join staff or volunteer for anything or go to Flag, and, most important, screen all your calls.

Also three survival phrases to learn in CofS:

"That does not indicate to me",

"Please show me where that is written", and

"I'll have to check my FP"
(Financial Plan).

Always extricate yourself by saying, "excuse me, I have an appointment with my FSM." Make sure your FSM is a big OL, OT8.

Since the person talking to you will probably be in antagonism (especially after you use one of those three phrases), try to stay in polite boredom (.5 above).
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
If DM is appying "Responsibility of Leaders" PL, then he would certainly have several contingency plans in place.

That's for sure. I've now heard theories from a castle in Europe to moving to South Africa. No doubt he has other places set up in the US where he could (try to) disappear to. I can't imagine it is that difficult if you have enough money. And he certainly does.

Since I wasn't so close to him as to ever hear of any such plan, I guess we'll have to wait and see if Mike Rinder has got anything to say on the matter. Not that he would necessarily know either. Like other people, he was simply used by DM. The apparency of "close ties with" and "personal favorite" etc are just that: apparencies. The moment someone ceases to be worth their keep in DMs eyes, that illusion vanishes. I don't know of one person he wouldn't sacrifice "for the cause" without a blink.

One of those current favorites, Henning Benndorf, has gotten recent exposure by JSwift on OCMB. And yes, one day, when Henning has been used enough, he will be here, reading what we write and trembling at his keyboard to write that first message saying he was once there.

I'm trembling no more, but I can say: I was once there.
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
I could not help but note in the story of the SuperPower building that I got from a friend I also got a small update on Mike Rinder.

Per this source Rinder is now starting a new career as a sales person in Virginia. And no, he didn't get the rest of his family out.

V
 

Div6

Crusader
I could not help but note in the story of the SuperPower building that I got from a friend I also got a small update on Mike Rinder.

Per this source Rinder is now starting a new career as a sales person in Virginia. And no, he didn't get the rest of his family out.

V

Hmmm...Xmas season is upon us....maybe I will run into him. If I do, will I have some questions....then again, maybe I know his connection....:coolwink:
 

ozzie

Patron with Honors
Is he in Real Estate? Seem to recall some other ex inters were there in real estate.


Hmmmmm...... interesting

Well hope he gets his family out!:yes:
 
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