Lawrence Wright's "Going Clear" on New York Times Bestseller List!

[Veda]

An excerpt from Naked Scientology by William Burroughs, re. his experiences at St. Hill in the late 1960s:

I remember some old biddy dragging me into a broom closet... and asking me on the e-meter, "Do you have any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard? ... That reads. What do you consider that means?"

"He's so beautiful he dazzles me. I can't help resenting it sometimes."

In the words of Celine - "All this time I felt my self respect slipping away and finally completely gone. As it were, officially removed..."

Like an anthropologist who has, after unspeakable indignities, penetrated a savage tribe, I was determined to hang on and get the big medicine...

...I was ordered for a Joberg [Security Check] because I rockslammed [a type of 'read' on the e-meter] on a question, "What would have to happen before Scientology worked on everybody?" (I couldn't confront it.) The [1961] Joberg http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/isd/isd-5i.htm ...is published for the first time in Inside Scientology http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/isd/isd.htm [1972]...

 

[The_Fixer]

I've one gay friend who use to cackle in telling about his experience of his first Jo'burg. When asked if he was a practicing homosexual he said "No. I perfected it years ago.". It didn't cause him any difficulties. He later went on to "clear" and then subsequently left involvement with the church in the late '70s due principally to lack of further interest. He never saw his orientation as problematic and so it didn't serve as a problem for him during his auditing.


Mark A. Baker

Jesus, money was a bit short in Jo'berg org, right?

 

[Idle Morgue]

It's weird, I know... but some people consent to (or even pay money for) a "golden shower". Some adults consent to being shackled, and flogged - with every appearance of enjoyment.

There really is no accounting for taste. Some people apparently enjoy nipple clamps, and humiliation... and some people surrender themselves to Scientology.

The trouble with the Scientology kink is that it was always about LRH's pleasure, although some sadists manage to piggy-back their own gratification onto it. Be warned, Scientology does not respect the existence of a "safe word".

Piercing my eyeball sounds more pleasurable now than going up the bridge to total bankruptcy and isolation!

 

[Lermanet_com]

Going Clear, page 36.



So... Hubbard...

Living proof that masturbation does indeed cause weak eyesight, impotence and insanity? Or merely the exception that proves the rule?

from WEBMD

Frequent masturbation is a sign of higher prostate cancer risk in younger men, but a sign of lower risk in older men, a U.K. study shows.

 

[Techless]

This is very funny (and great) thread!

It starts with fantastic news about Wright's book on NY bestseller list and moving up to #1.
And then it ends with more great news about older guys and masturbation.

Somehow, this very well sums up my whole Scn experience - it made total sense to me at the time!!
If you can understand it, you can understand anything.

Cheers,

TL

 

[MrCognition]

Reading Wrights book has been fun. As I read his book I get flashbacks to concerns I had with people I looked up to in Scientology. Basically all of the people I looked up to didn't like going to the church. I could never figure out why and they wouldn't tell me.

I would be on course or speeding down the highway trying to be on time and they would never go in, I would never see them. Yet, they touted how much success they've had with the "tech".

One time at an event I saw one of the people I looked up to leave an IAS event early (attended by 100 people). I thought to myself, " Why is he leaving?".

10 minutes later, the doors closed and I had two sea org members sitting next to me. Hot Damnit! lol

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

After letting the book "Going Clear" settle in and reflecting on where it fits in the world's ecosystem, here is what just floated into view. It probably would not take more than any one (1) of these things to effectively remove the blight of Scientology from the landscape:

1. Revocation of Scientology's tax exempt religious status. (not likely at this time)

2. Wide-scale law suits from former victim-donors to IAS, SuperPower, Ideal Orgs and other financial scams. (Currently just beginning by one of nation's top litigation firms)

3. Consumer protection law enacted which requires that a copy of Robert Wright's book "Going Clear" has been given (by Scientology) to every Scientologist before starting on any paid service.​

Honestly, if anyone read that book and still elected to pay for and do Scientology, they pretty much deserve what happens to them.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Reading Wrights book has been fun. As I read his book I get flashbacks to concerns I had with people I looked up to in Scientology. Basically all of the people I looked up to didn't like going to the church. I could never figure out why and they wouldn't tell me.

I would be on course or speeding down the highway trying to be on time and they would never go in, I would never see them. Yet, they touted how much success they've had with the "tech".

One time at an event I saw one of the people I looked up to leave an IAS event early (attended by 100 people). I thought to myself, " Why is he leaving?".

10 minutes later, the doors closed and I had two sea org members sitting next to me. Hot Damnit! lol

Clear examples of "Genuine OT Powers".


Mark A. Baker

 

[degraded being]

...

After letting the book "Going Clear" settle in and reflecting on where it fits in the world's ecosystem, here is what just floated into view. It probably would not take more than any one (1) of these things to effectively remove the blight of Scientology from the landscape:

1. Revocation of Scientology's tax exempt religious status. (not likely at this time)

2. Wide-scale law suits from former victim-donors to IAS, SuperPower, Ideal Orgs and other financial scams. (Currently just beginning by one of nation's top litigation firms)

3. Consumer protection law enacted which requires that a copy of Robert Wright's book "Going Clear" has been given (by Scientology) to every Scientologist before starting on any paid service.​

Honestly, if anyone read that book and still elected to pay for and do Scientology, they pretty much deserve what happens to them.

I think though, that there is some kind of hope that number 1 above, may
eventually happen, partly due to a lot of number 2 happening.
When enough people get concerned about certain aspects of TAX, the groundswell of public opinion can filter through the powers that be to effect change. People don't want to pay taxes to give fraudsters an easy ride. Enough legal losses of fraud gives good reason to deny tax exemption AFAIK, and may be enough, if the fraud is extensive enough, to counterbalance the religious cloaking scam. I am not saying I think something on tax will happen very soon, but I no longer think it will never happen. Whaddya think?

 

[Free to shine]

I am finally reading my copy and I'm blown away. It's not that I am reading new things, though there are a few, it's that it is all put together in a wonderful way. It helps me understand why my father was drawn in back in the 60's. I could easily stay up and read it all night until I am finished, however that is a treat for tomorrow.

Oh and Hubbard was freaking nuts.

 

[Type4_PTS]

"the best of ron's writings have a true timeless quality to them....."

What are you referring to, Battlefield Earth?

 

[Free to shine]

I am still reading this book as I decided to savour it instead of inhale it.

I think it is the best book, aside from A Piece of Blue Sky, that I have ever read on scientology. I have been reading bits and pieces for years ... a story here a story there ... and Lawrence brings them into chronological order, so suddenly some puzzle pieces fit into place. And there are things I hadn't heard before, which is terrific.

I don't think anyone could stay a scientologist if they truly read this book, or if they did it would leave lasting doubts that eventually would need to be faced.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I listened to Terry Gross interview Lawrence Wright on NPR's Fresh Air

One comment he made struck me as odd,

He said he did not believe that Hubbard was a conman,

He thought Hubbard actually believed the nonsense he was spewing.

He felt if Hubbard was a conman he would have took the money and run.

After all of the research I was surprised that he doesn't understand that it was about a lot more than money for Hubbard.

He desperately wanted to be famous and to be worshiped, even more than he wanted money.

Hubbard wasn't just a conman, he was a hardcore soulless conman.

 

[MissWog]

I listened to Terry Gross interview Lawrence Wright on NPR's Fresh Air

One comment he made struck me as odd,

He said he did not believe that Hubbard was a conman,

He thought Hubbard actually believed the nonsense he was spewing.

He felt if Hubbard was a conman he would have took the money and run.

After all of the research I was surprised that he doesn't understand that it was about a lot more than money for Hubbard.

He desperately wanted to be famous and to be worshiped, even more than he wanted money.

Hubbard wasn't just a conman, he was a hardcore soulless conman.

That drove me CRAZY and really annoyed me and I was in the middle of the book so it tainted the rest of the book a little for me. But that's also because I knew too much and didn't get enough new out of the book..so hearing him say that made me think he cut corners.. Plus I was really disappointed in the enhanced materials.

Everyone should read this book if they havnt read Piece of Blue Sky.. But I still liked Blue Sky much more.. But it was also the first book I read.. So I am grateful for Going Clear and LW because I know it has really blown other people's perspective wide open and Blue Sky did for me.

 

[degraded being]

This article asks questions extending from why people get sucked into scientology, to how the same principles apply to other things in our lives. How cognitive dissonance keeps us in projects we sometimes should abandon, and
how we use hindsight to make something that wasn't really good, seem better or more positive than it rally was.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-normal-people-get-sucked-into-scientology-2013-2

http://www.psychwiki.com/wiki/Arons...f_Abnormal_and_Social_Psychology,_59,_177-181.

 

[Boson Wog Stark]

I listened to Terry Gross interview Lawrence Wright on NPR's Fresh Air

One comment he made struck me as odd,

He said he did not believe that Hubbard was a conman,

He thought Hubbard actually believed the nonsense he was spewing.

He felt if Hubbard was a conman he would have took the money and run.

After all of the research I was surprised that he doesn't understand that it was about a lot more than money for Hubbard.

He desperately wanted to be famous and to be worshiped, even more than he wanted money.

Hubbard wasn't just a conman, he was a hardcore soulless conman.

That made me think too, but Wright sometimes mentions that Hubbard was mentally ill. I figure the stuff about "smashing his name into history" showed that he was a megalomaniac more than a conman that was aware it was all a con. So, I think Wright just means Hubbard was nuts and power crazy rather than just running a classic con for the money alone.

A conman who was more shrewd and calculating wouldn't have been so over the top crazy at times. Another possibility though is that by the time Hubbard had amassed so much money that he could have exited with a healthy chunk, he was into the power, and maybe afraid that there would be no place for him to go? I also think that with his heavy smoking and spotty health, he simply didn't enjoy life enough to go off and just live. He needed the power and attention.

In interviews, Wright mentions Hubbard's work ethic. Perhaps even after he was famous, he couldn't stop working. The time he did take off, he tended to feel useless or get depressed. People with a lot of drive like that, they will continue driving in the area that gives them the most success.

Tom Cruise is like that. He's now conflated making movies and piles of money with salvaging the planet, because he thinks that as long as he's a successful actor, people will admire him and look to Scientology for their success. Of course, a lot of older actors keep acting anyway. And people who make money, sometimes find themselves never getting enough of it.

Another thing with Hubbard is that he felt he may have feared that Scientology would collapse if he were to leave before he died. If he had taken the money and ran when he was 60, he knew his followers might have regarded him as a conman, and he didn't want all of them to do that. The law may have even come down harder on him.

A lot of Hubbard's followers harbor the delusion that they are clearing the planet. Certainly, it's possible Hubbard thought he was doing that too?

 

[Gib]

That made me think too, but Wright sometimes mentions that Hubbard was mentally ill. I figure the stuff about "smashing his name into history" showed that he was a megalomaniac more than a conman that was aware it was all a con. So, I think Wright just means Hubbard was nuts and power crazy rather than just running a classic con for the money alone.

A conman who was more shrewd and calculating wouldn't have been so over the top crazy at times. Another possibility though is that by the time Hubbard had amassed so much money that he could have exited with a healthy chunk, he was into the power, and maybe afraid that there would be no place for him to go? I also think that with his heavy smoking and spotty health, he simply didn't enjoy life enough to go off and just live. He needed the power and attention.

In interviews, Wright mentions Hubbard's work ethic. Perhaps even after he was famous, he couldn't stop working. The time he did take off, he tended to feel useless or get depressed. People with a lot of drive like that, they will continue driving in the area that gives them the most success.

Tom Cruise is like that. He's now conflated making movies and piles of money with salvaging the planet, because he thinks that as long as he's a successful actor, people will admire him and look to Scientology for their success. Of course, a lot of older actors keep acting anyway. And people who make money, sometimes find themselves never getting enough of it.

Another thing with Hubbard is that he felt he may have feared that Scientology would collapse if he were to leave before he died. If he had taken the money and ran when he was 60, he knew his followers might have regarded him as a conman, and he didn't want all of them to do that. The law may have even come down harder on him.

A lot of Hubbard's followers harbor the delusion that they are clearing the planet. Certainly, it's possible Hubbard thought he was doing that too?

Hubbard created his own company (universe as he called it - he like to mystify everything) much to the likes of any company like intel, apple, ford motor company. Only thing is he didn't produce a product as advertised, like a "clear" or a "ot", thus he failed as he told sarge. Lots of PR & self promotion though. IMHO

I read all parts today, finally. http://www.lermanet.com/creed-pearson/index.htm

[SIZE=+2]Discovering Scientology’s Greatest Secrets[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=+2]& Why I Was Silenced
Part One
by Creed J. Pearson[/SIZE]​

 

[Sindy]

Lawrence is on C-Span2 right now on BookTV. He is taking questions from an audience and it's incredible...tune in if you can. Wow!

 

[TG1]

Mania, addiction and "strong work ethic" often look the same.

TG1

 

[Boomima]

wq

I think that Wright meant that Hubbard was not a simple con artist like Steve Martin in Leap of Faith. Whether Hubbard sought fame, was self-treating mental illness, or believed his own words I can't say.

I have certainly met liars who believed their own lies.


I'm about 1/2 of the way through and I have to say that he does the best job I've read of providing insight into what was/is compelling about Scientology. I don't think that he paints an attractive picture of the Church or it's leaders (including Rathbun and Rinder).