Lawsuit - I Never Abandoned Suri

Purple Rain

Crusader
Re: NY Daily News

Tom - a sign of "Oat Tea-ness" is the ability to pick the right target! Three failed marriages says it is either YOU (PTS Type III?) or Scientology??

Maybe a little of both?

Use the "TEK" Tom...you said "we are the authorities on the MIND!! My goodness Tom - take a LOOK at your religion...it is like a elephant is in the room!! Do you think it is THE PSYCHS causing your religion and marriages to FAIL?? Did you think when you married Katie Holmes you could control her and MAKE HER BE a Scientologist forever? Bat-shit crazy!!

from deposition:

Cruise:
"I don’t know, you know, honestly, I really don’t.(How could you NOT KNOW - You are Oat Tea Tom, and one of the biggest Beans in this galaxy - Scientology is the "science of knowing how to know...and you are at the Top of the Pyramid, uh..I mean Bridge)What I find most disturbing is that I have to sit here and look at this photograph of my daughter with “Abandoned By Daddy,” to me that’s what sticks out most….”He chose Scientology over Suri for good,” “Has he chosen Scientology over Suri for good? Abandoned by Daddy.” I mean come on, that is absolutely disgusting. That is absolutely disgusting. And I have to tell you with everything — listen, I am a public person, I absolutely understand. For me there is — I tolerate a tremendous amount and I’m very privileged to be able to have the life that I have, and I believe that. But there is a line that — that I draw for myself and — and that’s it. And I asked for an apology. I asked for a retraction. They denied it, wouldn’t do it, and then published that, you know — this is the second one, I guess, but they published it a second time. It’s very simple. This is something that could have gotten handled easily. And I understand, listen, with the Internet, with — you know, I’ve been doing this for 30 years. I’ve lived through the whole change and incarnation, and there is a point where — and this is it for me. So that’s how I feel about it."

Maybe Tom needs to apply "Slapping Tech" to these degraded beings connected to THE PSYCHS?

And this ...

McNamara: "And during the marriage was Katie a practitioner of Scientology?

Cruise: Yes, and before the marriage.
McNamara: And did she leave the church when she divorced you?
Cruise: Yes.

So - is she or is she not an Declared SP Tom? You know she is yet you get to see her because you are so special....:puke2:

Who says he sees Katie?
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Do you think any of Katie's friends have disconnected from her because she left Scn, as they did for Leah Remini?


I tend to doubt Katie actually had any friends in Scientology.

Tom's family and his two older kids, who he said in his deposition hasn't seen Katie since they split up. That could be seen as an admission of disconnection.

Jessica, her auditor/handler. I don't know if they ever really were friends.

The reality is that, even taking Scientology out of the mix, when there's a split up generally one or the other gets the friends. Since all these people were only connected to Katie because of Tom, it doesn't necessarily automatically prove "Scientology disconnection" if these people don't associate with Katie any more.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I don't think you understood my post because your reply makes no sense to me.

Where did I say disconnection is okay? You seem to have dubbed that in.

Those examples of your own friends must be different to my situation because again, what you say makes no sense to me.

Let me repeat - my son was a minor who had had no previous involvement with Scientology so why shouldn't I be allowed to see him? There's no Scientology reference that I know that says I should be disconnected from him. If you think there is then please explain.

Also, you are talking about someone who is allowed to talk to their declared spouse because they have "SECRETS" and you seem to be accusing me of this! Don't you understand? I wasn't allowed to talk to my declared ex-wife. I said so in my post.

I seriously suggest you re-read my post because you don't seem to understand it at all.

Unfortunately this finer point seems lost on Idle Morgue and pretty much everyone else. Who cares what the facts are when the lies are so much more fun?

I think I am tiring of being an ex - I think I just want to be a person.

If it's a choice between the truth and making Scientology look bad it upsets me to see people choose the latter. At least I'm getting more sense of the kind of person I want to be and what my values are. I don't want to be part of a mindless mob. I want to think about the rights and wrongs of each situation. I don't want to be biased by whether or not I like the person. I want to treat each person as a human and with compassion, regardless of whether they adhere to a cult that I now find to be evil. And I certainly don't want to be defending Tom Cruise. But when I am upset by the misinformation about Scientology or the false-labeling of a person I don't want to be the kind of person who just goes along with the group line to be popular.

I keep thinking if I follow it long enough I'll get to watch Scientology sink into the sea, but meanwhile I just get into more dramas and disagreements, and these days I'm just the disagreeable one. I'm too anally retentive for all this. I have to dot every i and cross every t. I can't just let it go if I think something is inaccurate or untrue or wrong.

Maybe I'll go out for a walk today while the sun is still shining.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I tend to doubt Katie actually had any friends in Scientology.

Tom's family and his two older kids, who he said in his deposition hasn't seen Katie since they split up. That could be seen as an admission of disconnection.

Jessica, her auditor/handler. I don't know if they ever really were friends.

The reality is that, even taking Scientology out of the mix, when there's a split up generally one or the other gets the friends. Since all these people were only connected to Katie because of Tom, it doesn't necessarily automatically prove "Scientology disconnection" if these people don't associate with Katie any more.

Also Katie fired Bella from her business just before she left Cruise. It seems like maybe not seeing his kids could be mutual. I mean, firing a family member is a bit of a statement. She might have just wanted a fresh start or a Scientologist free life.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Some great comments on Tony's blog.


http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/08/th...om-his-depositin-you-havent-heard/#more-11484
.................

Ironically, his evasive, waffling non-answer answers spell it out pretty clearly: he not only knows of the policies of disconnection and attacking critics with lies and smears, he fully approves and takes part himself but is too embarrassed to openly admit it.

Anyone out there who still believes the kind of shit I used to believe years ago, like "Oh, I'm sure Tom would be outraged if he knew the truth", needs to wake up and accept the basic truth. All the horrors committed by the COS, from the Narconon scams, the deaths, the suicides, to the disconnections, the smear campaigns, the stalking, the harassment, they're all on his head just as much as they are on Miscmidget's. Cruise is just as culpable and this deposition is hopefully the beginning of the end for his career. His arrogance, his nasty character, his obsession with his "religion" are now out there for all to see, throwing into sharp relief what a lowlife he is.

...............
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Also Katie fired Bella from her business just before she left Cruise. It seems like maybe not seeing his kids could be mutual. I mean, firing a family member is a bit of a statement. She might have just wanted a fresh start or a Scientologist free life.


True. I forgot about that.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Re: NY Daily News

Who says he sees Katie?

WTF all you like, Idle Morgue, but you have NO IDEA whether he sees her. When was the last time Tom Cruise saw Katie Holmes, since YOU know so much about their lives? You obviously know all the arrangements they make and how their lives are ordered so you tell me.

The BIG WTF is a person making outrageous claims without backing them up.

Edit: You can CLAIM that Tom Cruise runs down Broadway with his undies on his head every full moon and I will treat that claim on its own merits based on the credibility of the evidence and the source.

Edit to the edit: I suddenly understand the TomKat Project so much more - really get what Ogborn was trying to say.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Oh my god. Haven't heard this one before.

Any possible sympathy I might have had about this guy in regards to his daughter is gone.

http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/08/th...om-his-depositin-you-havent-heard/#more-11484


..............

Like I've said before on this blog, I was best friend's with his niece at one point and TC personally kicked her out of his family. She was unable to speak to her mother for 2 years until TC personally approved her CSW to be back in the family. She had to do hundreds of hours of amends at Applied Scholastics in St. Louis and write up tons of Overts and Withholds. She must have CSW'd half a dozen times until Tom Cruise allowed her to be back in her family and speak with her mother.

.................
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
She dumped Tom Cruise. Are you kidding? She'd be considered to be the World's Biggest SP.

And I have to say. I've never seen a more public leaving of Scn than what Ninja Katie pulled off.

EDIT: I'm asking the PTS-related questions below because I honestly don't know the answers - not trying to put Lulu Belle (or anyone else) on the spot.


Would 'SP Katie Holmes' also be considered PTS to any member-in-good-standing of CO$ after she left?

What about before she left - PTS, too? Would someone who had been friendly with or close to Katie Holmes in the year prior to the divorce get sec-checked about having had KH 'on his/her lines' at that time? (People like Tommy & Jessica Davis, etc.)


On another note, here's a question I didn't see in the deposition of Tom Cruise that might've really helped reveal whether he truly and definitively understands the disconnection policy:

"Mr. Cruise, did you or Ms. Holmes disconnect from Jason Beghe, Mark Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Tommy Davis, Jessica Davis, Nicole Kidman, or anyone else during your marriage?"

JB
 
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AnonKat

Crusader
suri-cruise-scientology-l-ron-hubbard-katie-holmes.jpg
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Would someone who had been friendly with or close to Katie Holmes in the year prior to the divorce get sec-checked about having had KH 'on his/her lines' at that time? (People like Tommy & Jessica Davis, etc.)


Possibly.

But what is more likely to be the case is that Tommy and Jessica, especially Jessica, would have been crucified for Katie's defection.

Jessica was Katie's auditor. Because Katie "blew" Scientology, the iron clad assumption would be that Jessica, as Katie's auditor, missed withholds on her. This is the worst possible technical crime in Scientology. And the fact that Katie was Cruise's wife and a celeb and all the resultant media attention, etc. made what is already a horrendous crime in Scientology a million times worse.

I don't know what happened with Jessica and Tommy between the Katie defection and them popping up in Texas, but I'm sure she/they were put through the wringer about this.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Also Katie fired Bella from her business just before she left Cruise. It seems like maybe not seeing his kids could be mutual. I mean, firing a family member is a bit of a statement. She might have just wanted a fresh start or a Scientologist free life.

I think that many of the facts of exactly HOW Katie ever managed to pull off her GREAT ESCAPE may never see the light of day. I view it as akin to an escape from East Germany during the height of the Cold War. Or the Celebrity version of Mark Headley's daring escape from the Int Base.

I believe that Katie's father, who very wisely maintained communication with them, helped her, when the time came, to recover her, and Suri's life.

It it was a very desperate and calculated and well planned, and had it not succeeded, TC & DM would have made her life a living hell. Katie had her own (not TC/DM) security personnel who were necessary to secure her and Suri's physical freedom.

With celebrities, we all know that 'Church' policies are malleable and PR driven.

If anyone is trying to make Scientology look bad by ignoring some "truth", I'd say it's a huge waste of their time, because Scientology is always worse than you think. We only see the 10% of the iceberg that is above the water.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Unfortunately this finer point seems lost on Idle Morgue and pretty much everyone else. Who cares what the facts are when the lies are so much more fun?

I think I am tiring of being an ex - I think I just want to be a person.

If it's a choice between the truth and making Scientology look bad it upsets me to see people choose the latter. At least I'm getting more sense of the kind of person I want to be and what my values are. I don't want to be part of a mindless mob. I want to think about the rights and wrongs of each situation. I don't want to be biased by whether or not I like the person. I want to treat each person as a human and with compassion, regardless of whether they adhere to a cult that I now find to be evil. And I certainly don't want to be defending Tom Cruise. But when I am upset by the misinformation about Scientology or the false-labeling of a person I don't want to be the kind of person who just goes along with the group line to be popular.

I keep thinking if I follow it long enough I'll get to watch Scientology sink into the sea, but meanwhile I just get into more dramas and disagreements, and these days I'm just the disagreeable one. I'm too anally retentive for all this. I have to dot every i and cross every t. I can't just let it go if I think something is inaccurate or untrue or wrong.

Maybe I'll go out for a walk today while the sun is still shining.


Thanks Purple. I really like your reasoned comments. I haven't seen anyone pounce on you for taking a distinct viewpoint, your views are good for the board.

Thank you. :thumbsup:
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
If one Google's News on "Tom Cruise" you'll see that stories related from this lawsuit are going viral. I have a feeling he's going to come to regret filing this lawsuit. (Never mind, I forgot, Scientologists never regret the past) :coolwink:

Here's an interesting headline from Fox News:
Tom Cruise: My work as an actor is as hard as fighting in Afghanistan
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-actor-is-as-hard-as-fighting-in-afghanistan/

I think that anyone who sees that who actually had family or friends fighting in Afghanistan won't really appreciate it. :unsure:

Lots of good comments at the Bunker, including this one:

Kevin Tighe 7 hours ago
I do not think Tom Cruise "abandoned" his daughter. I think that assertion is despicable. That being said it is obvious in the deposition that as much as he wants the truth to be known about his relationship with Suri he does not want the real truth to be known about what happens to families when one member resigns from Scientology. If Tom wants to grow a set give me a call and I'll tell you how it real is. For example this Christmas it will be three FUCKING YEARS SINCE I'VE SEEN OR HEARD FROM MY DAUGHTER and guess what Tom? Your fucking donations help pay for that you dumb fuck. So two words about how your feelings have been hurt: FUCK YOU.

http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/08/th...epositin-you-havent-heard/#comment-1113895951
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron

Is he going to sue these guys too?

He should have left it alone!

Tom - why don't you take a lawsuit out on the world - force everyone to stop having any opinions about you...kind of like the CULT! The apple does not fall far from the tree!:whistling:

Here is what Kevin Tighe posted on Ortega's Blog - I duplicate his feelings towards Tom Cruise - completely!

"I do not think Tom Cruise "abandoned" his daughter. I think that assertion is despicable. That being said it is obvious in the deposition that as much as he wants the truth to be known about his relationship with Suri he does not want the real truth to be known about what happens to families when one member resigns from Scientology. If Tom wants to grow a set give me a call and I'll tell you how it real is. For example this Christmas it will be three FUCKING YEARS SINCE I'VE SEEN OR HEARD FROM MY DAUGHTER and guess what Tom? Your fucking donations help pay for that you dumb fuck. So two words about how your feelings have been hurt: FUCK YOU".

SCIENTOLOGY HURTS FAMILIES!

Bernie Headley posts:
"Excellent point, Kevin. And come January, it will be NINE YEARS since I have been able to see or speak to my daughter, Stephanie! Cruise and the rest of the Scibot celebrities help perpetuate that situation. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"!



Here is a video from Karen - just watch the wives throw their own husbands under the bus....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0LPUucp4WrE

I feel really sad for these women - they lost their HUSBANDS ... for what??

When an Organization comes between husbands and wives - they are not a religion - they are a cult!

My bet is the Church of scientology has the most divorces in the history of any religion! It is just SOP for the cult. Breaking families apart is a strategic plan to weaken people by mind controlling evil people and Cults!
 
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Jump

Operating teatime
Is he going to sue these guys too?

He should have left it alone!

Tom - why don't you take a lawsuit out on the world - force everyone to stop having any opinions about you...kind of like the CULT! The apple does not fall far from the tree!:whistling:


Streisand Effect, meet Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise, meet Streisand Effect.


And it's only going to get worse :whistling:

Tom, ProTip: Buy a Bluebird Motorhome, get it pimped out by some [strike]religious monks[/strike] sea org slaves, and park it up near Dave's.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
If one Google's News on "Tom Cruise" you'll see that stories related from this lawsuit are going viral. I have a feeling he's going to come to regret filing this lawsuit. (Never mind, I forgot, Scientologists never regret the past) :coolwink:

Here's an interesting headline from Fox News:
Tom Cruise: My work as an actor is as hard as fighting in Afghanistan
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-actor-is-as-hard-as-fighting-in-afghanistan/

I think that anyone who sees that who actually had family or friends fighting in Afghanistan won't really appreciate it. :unsure:

Lots of good comments at the Bunker, including this one:

So did this poster's donations as a Scientologist NOT help to fund the disconnection of others from their children, or are only Tom Cruise's donations used for that purpose? I just find that line of argument hypocritical. We were nearly ALL Scientologists.

I mean, I am sorry about the disconnection from that poster's daughter. Of course I am. However, it really has nothing to do with the facts of the case. Claiming that a parent abandoned a child when they haven't is a shitty thing to do both to the parent and the child - and that's what the case is about.

I can understand the schadenfreude about the negative publicity for Scientology's "number two in command" and the positive aspects of Scientology being further exposed and the fact that Cruise himself has been making use of Scientology black PR and fair-gaming tech reinforces what he has become under their tutelage. But it doesn't change the fact that using a child's picture in that way while announcing her parent has abandoned her knowing it's a lie and just to sell magazines is a really, really, really shitty thing to do - and the people who do it are no better than the people they criticise.

Anyway, this is another perspective on the tipping point of when to sue and when not to.

When the Benefits Outweigh the Costs

Back when Tom Cruise was married to Nicole Kidman, a British tabloid printed things that were pretty terrible. There's no point in repeating them. Cruise and Kidman sued, and British law makes libel suits much easier to win than in America.


Cruise and Kidman won the case.


BBC reports conflicting accounts of how much they actually won, though. BBC said the figure might be in excess of 100,000 British pounds plus 150,000 pounds in attorney fees -- but BBC also quoted a tabloid spokesperson who said those figures were exaggerated, that Cruise and Kidman got far less.


For average people, that might be a lot of money. For two of Hollywood's highest-paid actors, people making tens of millions of dollars per movie, it's nothing. That's like you and me buying a mocha.


Despite the dollar amount, I think the Cruise case points to reasons when filing a lawsuit for defamation does make sense. He and Kidman were right to sue, because they needed to stamp out the flood of stories like this.


There are two main reasons, from a PR perspective, to pursue defamation lawsuits.


• To stop a media outlet or individual from a pattern of defamation
• To stop a relentless series of defamatory stories from multiple media outlets


Just as lawsuits are no fun for alleged victims of defamation, they aren't a joy for media outlets and reporters.


Cruise and other public figures have taken a hard line at times, and rightly so. You don't want let the media declare open season on your reputation. The media tends to pile on, and to try to out-scoop each other.


There are times when you need to stop that ball before it gets rolling.

It will be worse for Scientology that Cruise is doing this and they may not even approve of it, but at least he is showing his daughter that he will fight to prove it's not true and to get an apology. I think that has to count for something, that your father is willing to take a stand for you. It's not like he doesn't know what's involved in this kind of case - he's won several and been awarded damages - and had to sit through these kinds of depositions before.

He knew what he was getting into - went into it with his eyes wide open - and it was still important enough to him to pursue. And I respect that. I do. For every time he has actually been pissed off enough to sue, how many thousands of published rumours and lies has he let slide? This is obviously important to him and I believe that's because Suri is important to him.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Thanks Purple. I really like your reasoned comments. I haven't seen anyone pounce on you for taking a distinct viewpoint, your personal views are good for the board.

Thank you. :thumbsup:

No, noone has pounced on me. I am not of the "the board is cruel" persuasion. I just don't win friends and influence people tilting at my windmills, playing devil's advocate, etc. etc. It's my fatal flaw - one of them. But if I was Achilles that would be my heel - the left heel at least! Lol!
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Re: Lawsuit - I Never Abandoned Suri - Deposition - A Moment of Levity

Care for a quick, well-intentioned moment of levity in this serious and occasionally confounding thread that's only a slight derail?

If you've read the deposition excerpts and thought, 'Such terrible grammar! Incomplete thoughts! What an idiot!' --- have a laugh at my expense.

When I was 11, I wrote a fictionalized story based upon a true-life slumber party held at a friend's home.
I tore through the house after I'd finished and demanded the story be read and critiqued - NOW.
Two of my older brothers read it - quickly, while my foot was tap-tap-tapping -- and both declared it a failure.
Outraged, I shrieked about how it had real characters, a good plot, a twist ending, and excellent dialogue.

They led me to the kitchen, sat me down, poured 3 bowls of cereal for us to eat and turned-on a recorder for 5-6 minutes.
In that time, we three siblings spoke to each other and, when Mom came in, we talked to/with her, too.
My brother hit the 'stop' button and told me to transcribe the recording.
(Shut UP! I was eleven, don't skip ahead!)

I wrote down everything that was said, wrapped each speaker's words in quotation marks and stormed back to the kitchen.
Both brothers reviewed it and gave me the look older brothers have that just RUINS everything and it's NOT FAIR!
On paper, we looked like thoughtless, witless, rambling fools. As if English were still somewhere on the other side of town --with no plans to move.

Real written dialogue can't look any other way on paper because there are no facial cues & nods & shrugs & eye rolls & blushes & such to exchange between the 'players' with only ink-on-paper words.

So, no, I don't think Tom Cruise's deposition makes him look incapable of communicating in his native language. His words on those pages don't make him a fool in my estimation.

His sustained, willful ignorance as regards the abusive practices and policies of Co$?
That's more than mere foolishness, imo; that's somewhere between irresponsible at best, and willfully reckless, at worst.
And we don't even have all of the relevant facts yet...so those subjective parameters may well change.

But we'll get more facts with more depositions, and court testimony, and trials, and news stories, and blog sites, and...here at ESMB, too.:)
Because Co$ and all of its members -- celebs, staff, sea org, public -- are just people, most of which are capable of telling their truth(s).
I think many of them want to do just that.


JB - Less of a brat than when I was 11, although it's Thanksgiving at my house, AGAIN, so... no promises. Brat happens. :coolwink:
 
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