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uniquemand

Unbeliever
Some people, no doubt, have done well using scientology. The absurd claims about OT abilities, however, have never been substantiated, and, IMO, never will be. Selling this crap is a scam! Selling the idea that a person can get better through self-examination and discipline is another story. Scientology can be used for those purposes. This is the exception, rather than the rule, though, in my experience. Usually, it is used to manipulate people for a profit.
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to uniquemand

Some people, no doubt, have done well using scientology. The absurd claims about OT abilities, however, have never been substantiated, and, IMO, never will be. Selling this crap is a scam! Selling the idea that a person can get better through self-examination and discipline is another story. Scientology can be used for those purposes. This is the exception, rather than the rule, though, in my experience. Usually, it is used to manipulate people for a profit.

Yes.
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
reply to dexter gelfand

The intention behind these quotes is to "prove" that unbelievable and unachievable claims were made by Ron Hubbard. Beyond that, to hold the subject to ridicule, and create the impression that Scientology is a worthless scam.
Are you quoting what dr3k stated his intention was, dexter, or do you think that you have the ability to read his mind and speak for him?
Smitty, you, dr3k and some others are half preaching to your own choir, and insulting the rest of us.
Dexter, the only person who you can factually speak for here is yourself. It is unfortunate that factual quotes from L. Ron Hubbard have power to produce a thought reaction of "insulting the rest of us" with you.
That sh*t you shovel about how you "no longer have ARC breaks" since you left Scientology, and how "Scientologists are programmed" to be offended is intended to offend, as if that made you right, which, apparently is your actual goal.
The "sh*t you shovel"? So, according to dexter gelfand, anyone who does not practice scientology is supposed to have ARC breaks? Have you lived anyone else's life? When one is instructed about what an ARC break is, in order to run it in session, and assert that it is a punishable reality within the cult, that is definitely a form of implanting or programming.
I'd like to think that there are better purposes for this list than this.
It is the Ex-Scientologist Message Board. What does that mean to you?
This is no spirited exchange of viewpoints; this is a make-wrong. You apparently feel threatened by the idea that, despite how you feel, there are people who have done well through Scientology, so much that you can't allow another person to have his win and let it go at that.
I don't see any threats here. Are you speculating? I never stated that someone who has had wins with scientology cannot have them. You are falsely accusing me of that.
I guess a "make-wrong" to you is any criticism of L. Ron Hubbard's dogma, no matter how absurd it may be.
I'm sorry for how you and many people were mistreated, betrayed, abused and taken advantage of by people who claimed to be practicing, protecting and/or enforcing Scientology. Get in line, its obviously a very long line.
That is irrelevant at this point. Scientology is intrinsically mistreating, betraying, abusive and exploiting. Just read Hubbard's policies on Fair Game, SPs, PTSs, Comm Evs, Ethics Offenses, and critics.
But for Gods sake consider letting it go enough to make the distinction between the actual subject of Scientology and the organization(s).
Love, Dex
The organization is the outgrowth and application of scientology tech and policy. That is the distinction.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
The intention behind these quotes is to "prove" that unbelievable and unachievable claims were made by Ron Hubbard. Beyond that, to hold the subject to ridicule, and create the impression that Scientology is a worthless scam.

I think that for nearly everyone on the list, our viewpoints are not likely to be changed one way or the other by either side of the argument.

Smitty, you, dr3k and some others are half preaching to your own choir, and insulting the rest of us. That sh*t you shovel about how you "no longer have ARC breaks" since you left Scientology, and how "Scientologists are programmed" to be offended is intended to offend, as if that made you right, which, apparently is your actual goal.

I'd like to think that there are better purposes for this list than this.

This is no spirited exchange of viewpoints; this is a make-wrong. You apparently feel threatened by the idea that, despite how you feel, there are people who have done well through Scientology, so much that you can't allow another person to have his win and let it go at that.

I'm sorry for how you and many people were mistreated, betrayed, abused and taken advantage of by people who claimed to be practicing, protecting and/or enforcing Scientology. Get in line, its obviously a very long line.

But for Gods sake consider letting it go enough to make the distinction between the actual subject of Scientology and the organization(s).

Love, Dex

Touché amigo
 
The intention behind these quotes is to "prove" that unbelievable and unachievable claims were made by Ron Hubbard. Beyond that, to hold the subject to ridicule, and create the impression that Scientology is a worthless scam.

I think that for nearly everyone on the list, our viewpoints are not likely to be changed one way or the other by either side of the argument.

Smitty, you, dr3k and some others are half preaching to your own choir, and insulting the rest of us.

That sh*t you shovel about how you "no longer have ARC breaks" since you left Scientology, and how "Scientologists are programmed" to be offended is intended to offend, as if that made you right, which, apparently is your actual goal.

I'd like to think that there are better purposes for this list than this.

This is no spirited exchange of viewpoints; this is a make-wrong.

You apparently feel threatened by the idea that, despite how you feel, there are people who have done well through Scientology, so much that you can't allow another person to have his win and let it go at that.

I'm sorry for how you and many people were mistreated, betrayed, abused and taken advantage of by people who claimed to be practicing, protecting and/or enforcing Scientology. Get in line, its obviously a very long line.

But for Gods sake consider letting it go enough to make the distinction between the actual subject of Scientology and the organization(s).

Love, Dex

We in the choir have heard this "distinction between the subject Scientology and the organization" line enough times to have had our "buttons" well and truly "flattened" on it.

Find out where you are. This is not the Scientology Defenders Message Board.
You say that the quotes from Ron are being used to hold the subject up to ridicule. What do you expect? This is a place where people are freeing themselves of years of being coerced to accept the ridculous and spend their lives and income pursuing ridiculous goals (per the quotes). Ridiculous claims by a riduculous megalomaniac. The ridiculous should be ridiculed when it is being used to fuck with people's minds.

If people feel they got some benefit from parts of scientology that are not ridiculous, so be it. Being told not to criticise Scientology or Ron, well, it ain't what people come here for.
Find out where you are.
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm with you Dex....

(philosophically)

But I do enjoy playing with the folks who would degrade and ridicule, its fun to hear them squeak when I bite.

(oh alex, when will you ever learn....)
:)
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Love, love, love, love, kick, love, love, love, bite, love..

I'm with you Dex....

(philosophically)

But I do enjoy playing with the folks who would degrade and ridicule, its fun to hear them squeak when I bite.

(oh alex, when will you ever learn....)
:)

On the road to greatness... I've kicked the odd cat too... :whistling:

I love it when they screach. :)
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
In answer, Alex: you will learn when you are willing to look.

That could be said of me, yourself or any of us, uniquemand.

Looking at what actually is in the real world long enough may enlighten one.

Looking at whatever baggage one happens to be carrying around in one's mind may or may not.

Does one always know when they are looking at the world through the distorting lens of their mental baggage and so seeing something different from what actually is ?

Do you, uniquemand, really believe any of us are immune to that particular human failing ?

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
 

Night Owl

Patron with Honors
Cult Watch

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=9518

3. Emotional overreaction when the group or leader is criticized. Seen as evil persecution

8. Demonization of former members or members of alternative viewpoints

It is what it is. These are just two. It isnt exclusively applicable to ex COS'ers that still support scientology; it is aphenomena observed in all ex cult members.... it's an awakening process...we all went through that stage....now I am out of the last layer of the Matrix.
 
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Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
But for Gods sake consider letting it go enough to make the distinction between the actual subject of Scientology and the organization(s).

Love, Dex

Hi Dex,

I saw the photo of you and your gal. And I've read a few of your posts & replies here. So that's all I know about you. But based on just that, I have to say that guys like you put the greatness into Scientology. You put the beef behind making a world "where honest beings have rights and man is free to rise to greater heights". Whatever part of the Church you salvage, or whatever activity you put together, by whatever name, I have high hopes it will be a force for good. Obviously some members of this board won't be part of your activity. But I appreciate your comments and your spirit. :thumbsup:

-mac
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
That could be said of me, yourself or any of us, uniquemand.

Looking at what actually is in the real world long enough may enlighten one.

Looking at whatever baggage one happens to be carrying around in one's mind may or may not.

Does one always know when they are looking at the world through the distorting lens of their mental baggage and so seeing something different from what actually is ?

Do you, uniquemand, really believe any of us are immune to that particular human failing ?

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson

Of course not. I have all human failings, and some of those shared by armadillos. I am, after all, a human. I was answering Alex's question.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
It never ceases to amuse and appall me how many people on forums are so into talking down to Scn'ists, telling them that someday you will learn, Grasshopper and all that sort of thing.

C'mon y'all. As Firesign Theater says, "we are all bozos on this bus."
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Anyone who would call themself a scientologist, after knowing what scientology is all about, should be not only talked down to, but castigated, and brought up on RICO counts, where possible.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Freedom from biggotry

Anyone who would call themself a scientologist, after knowing what scientology is all about, should be not only talked down to, but castigated, and brought up on RICO counts, where possible.

I'm a Scientologist too and not living in the moronic USA. :p
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
Of course not. I have all human failings, and some of those shared by armadillos. I am, after all, a human. I was answering Alex's question.

Funny thing is, I drafted a reply to it, and then discarded it, as I frequently do....

Uniques opinions are well known to me and mine I think to him.


My discarded reply to his implication that I needed to look, was something to the effect that it was ironic in light of the vast area not seen by him, that I have been trying to get him to see for years...

I'll gladly accept uniques "human failings" as but a small part in a much more constructive person.
 
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