What's new

Let's retake our church

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Thanks, Alex. I do look, as I'm sure you do. You asked when you'd learn, and I simply responded "when you look".

As to those saying "I'm a Scientologist": yes, yes, I know. Hopefully, you'll come to your senses.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks, Alex. I do look, as I'm sure you do. You asked when you'd learn, and I simply responded "when you look".

As to those saying "I'm a Scientologist": yes, yes, I know. Hopefully, you'll come to your senses.

To quote an oriental saying...:

Whatever you wish for us, we wish you 10 times that. :coolwink:
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
You wish for me to come to my senses ten times? Or you want me to be brought up on 10x as many RICO violations? BTW, aren't RICO violations required by policy?
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Funny thing is, I drafted a reply to it, and then discarded it, as I frequently do....

Uniques opinions are well known to me and mine I think to him.


My discarded reply to his implication that I needed to look, was something to the effect that it was ironic in light of the vast area not seen by him, that I have been trying to get him to see for years...

I'll gladly accept uniques "human failings" as but a small part in a much more constructive person.

Unique wants us to look... But Unique... Things look different without R6 in your puss. :coolwink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNVc9biKOXA
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Must punish... must punish... must punish... hail MEST!

You wish for me to come to my senses ten times? Or you want me to be brought up on 10x as many RICO violations? BTW, aren't RICO violations required by policy?

Religion trumps RICO. Go fish.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
How would you know, Pascal? Last I checked, you were on ARC S/W. Did you skip all the other grades and go directly to R6EW?
 

dexter gelfand

Patron Meritorious
Appreciated.

Hi Dex,

I saw the photo of you and your gal. And I've read a few of your posts & replies here. So that's all I know about you. But based on just that, I have to say that guys like you put the greatness into Scientology. You put the beef behind making a world "where honest beings have rights and man is free to rise to greater heights". Whatever part of the Church you salvage, or whatever activity you put together, by whatever name, I have high hopes it will be a force for good. Obviously some members of this board won't be part of your activity. But I appreciate your comments and your spirit. :thumbsup:

-mac


Thanks Meg, I appreciate your support. I can also appreciate that many on this forum have, because of their experience, formed a very bitter, negative opinion on Scientology. But just as they would want to be accepted for their viewpoint, so do the rest of us.

I think it shouldn't require unattainable levels of graciousness to simply state "My experience has made me decide the whole subject is false", rather than "The whole subject factually is false", and thus imply that those of us whose experience dictates that we beg to differ are incapable of percieving facts.

Apparently, a person doesn't need to agree with Scientology to demonstrate the existence of covert (or overt) hostility.

Love, Dex
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to dexter gelfand

Thanks Meg, I appreciate your support. I can also appreciate that many on this forum have, because of their experience, formed a very bitter, negative opinion on Scientology. But just as they would want to be accepted for their viewpoint, so do the rest of us.
How do you know that those with negative opinions of scientology are bitter? Have they said that? Or are you putting that there? Have you lived their lives?
I think it shouldn't require unattainable levels of graciousness to simply state "My experience has made me decide the whole subject is false", rather than "The whole subject factually is false", and thus imply that those of us whose experience dictates that we beg to differ are incapable of percieving facts.
Dexter, that is a rather black and white point of view: We decide things largely based on our experience. Experience does NOT make us decide anything. We decide. I think you have experience and the response to experience confused. Who said "The whole subject factually is false"? Specifically, what about it is false? What about it is speculation? What about it can be shown to be factual?
Apparently, a person doesn't need to agree with Scientology to demonstrate the existence of covert (or overt) hostility.
Love, Dex
To those using that attribute, it has or had some value. Being a scientologist had some value for some people. But of those who have had wins, some of them cannot let go of that perspective, thus cannot view the world outside of it.
 
Thanks, Alex. I do look, as I'm sure you do. You asked when you'd learn, and I simply responded "when you look".

As to those saying "I'm a Scientologist": yes, yes, I know. Hopefully, you'll come to your senses.


Some of us never lost ours or bought into the cult mentality. :)


Mark A. Baker
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
Some of us never bought into the propaganda that scientology was a religion or a church.
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to Pascal

You did not answer the question. Who is the 'Us' and who is the "them'?
 

MarkWI

Patron Meritorious
I find this Open Letter relates to the title of the tread:


Dear Scientologist,

I am writing to you in hopes of bringing some clarity to the recent upsets and protests.

L. Ron Hubbard speaks much about integrity, responsibility, honesty and ethics. These are good things. The world needs more honesty and people need more integrity, better ethics, and need to take more responsibility.

But we have a problem.

I'm sorry but I must be blunt here. You have given up your responsibility for your church. You have given all the responsibility for your church to unnamed and unseen “others” of church management. Most Scientologists only know of one person, David Miscavige, who is in charge.

You trust that your church management is doing a good job. You trust that they are doing the right things. But your only source of information on how and what management is doing is management's own event presentations, which are, obviously, produced to make management look good.

The actual actions and statistics of the Church of Scientology management are hidden. The actual people involved in church management, except for David Miscavige, are hidden.

You are told that all information from outside sources about the church is false, and that church management's event presentations are the only valid sources of information. And you believe, and follow that.

This is irresponsible.

It is your church. You are responsible for the Church of Scientology. You. Not David Miscavige, not some mysterious and unnamed “management team”, not “someone else”, you.

You have been told that your "responsibility" is to follow management's orders. This is not responsibility. "Obedience" is not part of any definition of responsibility. Responsibility involves knowledge and it includes action--knowledge you have gathered for yourself, not some spoon-fed, predigested presentation, and action you have decided is best, based on your own personal knowledge.

I won't tell you what you should do, except to say that you need to take responsibility. The information available on the Internet won't kill you. Millions of people have read everything available and no one has died from it. No one has even gotten sick. Scientology has certainly not made you weaker than those people. It is safe for you to look.

Some of the information may be upsetting. So? Is your faith so weak that it falls apart at the slightest contrary opinion? Don't you think you have the intelligence and awareness to spot truth and lies? I think you do.

Taking responsibility has never been easy, but it has always been necessary. It is time for you to step up and assume the responsibility you abandoned.

You should be ashamed that others have felt it necessary to take responsibility for your church. They might not understand and may be clumsy in their attempts to correct things. You would obviously be better at it but you haven't done anything.

Take responsibility for your church. It is time.

Bill

You will find many other great articles on his blog:
http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/2008/03/open-letter-to-all-scientologists.html
 
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