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Life Between Lives — Dr. Michael Newton

knn

Patron Meritorious
Can someone confirm that LRH is one of the High Council members and that his medallion has a Dianetics/Scn symbol?

He wasn't there in the last years since he is incarnated, thus one would have to go back into LBL something like a several hundred years ago.

Here are the medallions from other council members as featured in Michael Newton's book:
 

imike

New Member
Thx Paul for response.

I’ve read Journey of souls and I think that Newton’s research and theory are impressing because they form a system that is quite coherent and able to logically explain many of supernatural phenomena for example afterlife, case of ghosts, reincarnation, other worlds, give a glimpse of what aliens may be etc.

Yet there are some problems. One that bugs me is case choice of another life. Newton says that souls choose who they want to be and sometimes they choose what disadvantages they will have and how they will end their life on earth. But for example if I do something very evil let it be put bomb on airplane and two hundred people will die then I think that I should not feel guilty because they decided before their lives that they will die like that for example to give a lesson to their families (how is it like to lose someone). I only made learning curve of souls possible. If not me someone else would have killed them. That can lead to justification any and doesn’t matter how evil and cruel actions. Of course for me there will be consequences. In future life I will have to experience similar thing (ex. loss of someone) and then someone else will have to make possible my learning curve by killing someone. As you see it leads to never ending story of lessons...
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Life between lives??

Who the f**k cares?

The folks who make it their 'daily bread' to discuss such fantasies lack the ability to draw and create enough ultimate worth in this life. This life is now. This life is all we have. Those who are drawn to fantasize otherwise appear to be so depressed that they MUST create another unknown life to fulfill what, they have come to believe, they are incapable of in this one.
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
Life between lives??

Who the f**k cares?

The folks who make it their 'daily bread' to discuss such fantasies lack the ability to draw and create enough ultimate worth in this life. This life is now. This life is all we have. Those who are drawn to fantasize otherwise appear to be so depressed that they MUST create another unknown life to fulfill what, they have come to believe, they are incapable of in this one.

And then, of course, there are 'virtual reality' sites such as "Second Life" which appear to be well-used; harmless enough I suppose unless you start to actually believe it.
 
Okay some of us are misguided idiots, how does this hurt you?
If we are just creating fantasies then when if we just become worm food who cares? Nothing has any meaning, oh well sux 2 b us.
Maybe you should just ignore it if it bothers you. Some people would like to explore this as it makes sense to us.

To the point about if someone does something evil. This is something I have been thinking of as well. It is mentioned that sometimes we fail and do not overcome our material world urges. I don't think it is completely pre determined. I would like to hear some other thoughts on this.

The work Dr Newton has done just makes sense to me personally. It fits with what has and is happening to me.
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
Okay some of us are misguided idiots, how does this hurt you?
If we are just creating fantasies then when if we just become worm food who cares? Nothing has any meaning, oh well sux 2 b us.
Maybe you should just ignore it if it bothers you. Some people would like to explore this as it makes sense to us.

To the point about if someone does something evil. This is something I have been thinking of as well. It is mentioned that sometimes we fail and do not overcome our material world urges. I don't think it is completely pre determined. I would like to hear some other thoughts on this.

The work Dr Newton has done just makes sense to me personally. It fits with what has and is happening to me.

It's not so much a question of anyone being a 'misguided idiot'...far from it.

This world is, and ever has been, full of interesting notions about our origins, nature, destiny et al. which seem to tend to the metaphysical by way of explanation.

The common denominator of such notions is that they appear to rely on intuition, personal subjective appreciation etc. which is fine as far as it goes; there also exists the possibility that our attempts to understand ourselves or more broadly, the human condition, are a function of a mind that is evolved to embrace the concept of survival and reject the concept of non-survival.

Unhappily, non-survival (at least in terms of the physical body) seems to be inevitable right along with taxes; given this circumstance what is a 'survival-programmed' mind to do?

To keep it mercifully brief: Dr. Newton's work makes sense, or rather can make sense to me too if I choose to view life through that particular filter; but then there are other filters through which life can be viewed that make equal sense.

We're all potentially 'misguided idiots' really IMHO, fumbling around in the dark; what perhaps redeems those of us who continue to seek is that we are at least performing our program, whatever its nature; maybe we can congratulate ourselves on being something more than 'broken pieces' on the chess-board of life? :)

I'm aware that the 'eloquent platitude' isn't much of an answer to anything....but ultimately, what else is there?
 
I agree with you Moonchild

I have no wish to "convert" anyone to my filter. Dr Newton makes ense to me but it doesn'y mean he has the whole answer. I would rather explore many people's thoughts and experiences and try to see the commonalities.
I don't think I have an answer, but I think there might be an answer.

I guess we will all find out in the "end" we can all agree on that. We are all going to die.

On a humorous note...
I have been sharing the Dr Newton works with my closest friends. We are trying to identify our sould group. My friend had an interesting observation...although kinda pathetic.
Some groups in Newtons books are adventurers, explorers, healers etc.
We are self absorbed ego maniacs. We make jokes that other soul groups probably pass by us and roll their eyes. "oh god, don't go near them or you will have to hear how great they are..."
We are almost all college educated professionals, not to help the world but to feed our over inflated sense of self, we are always trying to out do each other. We all make lots of money but spend it selfishly. One of us has a TV show currently that is doing well, the rest of us are so envious when we just should be happy. But deep deep inside we are good people but we have a lot to overcome. If anything reading these works have made us (her & I) aware of our faults. Seeing it though this filter, maybe we can work on our "life lesson" and overcome our egos. Maybe we can learn some humility. Who knows.

I am really trying to improve myself, because I really need to. This helps me, that is all I know.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
And then, of course, there are 'virtual reality' sites such as "Second Life" which appear to be well-used; harmless enough I suppose unless you start to actually believe it.

Hey what a cool post. I agree with you, it's the 'actually start to believe it' part that get tricky. I find the state of curiosity to be inspiring while the state of believing to be stale and a hinderance.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Okay some of us are misguided idiots, how does this hurt you?
If we are just creating fantasies then when if we just become worm food who cares? Nothing has any meaning, oh well sux 2 b us.
Maybe you should just ignore it if it bothers you. Some people would like to explore this as it makes sense to us.

To the point about if someone does something evil. This is something I have been thinking of as well. It is mentioned that sometimes we fail and do not overcome our material world urges. I don't think it is completely pre determined. I would like to hear some other thoughts on this.

The work Dr Newton has done just makes sense to me personally. It fits with what has and is happening to me.

Hi SD,

Pursue as you wilt, I don't want to interfere. I simply, as you, have viewpoints concerning this issue.

I don't see a lot of differences between 'material world urges' vs 'spiritual world urges'. An urge is an urge. I think urges are good and can lead to more abundant life. I find the 'worm food' vs 'spiritual whatever' argument to be redundant, and arrogant. There is not one person known who is pusuing something spiritual that doesn't eat and breath to sustain oneself. The relationship to the physical world is primary. Many spiritual pursuits try to convince to the contrary... but the writers of them cannot continue for long without food, water and air. Does that make us mud? I think not. I find the physical universe to be splendid and inspiring. Remove a person from any source of light and watch how slowly but surely their 'spiritual inspiration' fades and chaos reigns. While we are beyond mere survival, I simply find it arrogant and misdirected to assume or believe that the earth that borne us is but 'mud'. It's far more fantastic and powerful than many realize.
 

mate

Patron Meritorious
Hi KnightVision.

I suspect that "desires" rather than "urges" is a better word, but either way, one is the effect of them, so how on earth they could "lead to a more abundant life" surprises me, indeed on the contrary, they lead to a less abundant life.

Most people would agree with you that the physical universe as the “real world” and many of these, particularly in the Western World would consider the spiritual realm as an illusionary world. However, if we turn to physics, we find that the atom, indeed, any atom, is almost a perfect vacuum, closer to perfect than outer space, and certainly much closer than we can produce on Earth.

Now, as all objects in our physical universe consist of molecules, which are in turn consist of atoms. As atoms are vacuums, then molecules would be vacuums, then so too are objects. So our physical universe is almost a perfect vacuum, an absence of matter. There is next to nothing there. However, I am not suggesting that the physical universe is an illusion, but rather that our perception of it is illusionary. And it is the coarseness of our senses, that makes us believe that the physical universe is substantial.

To understand this, let us review the nature of our senses. First we have sight. Our eyes respond to visible light, that is electro-magnetic radiation with wavelengths less than infra-red and greater than ultra-violet. All electro-magnetic radiation is considered to consist of “particles” called photons. At these wavelengths, with their immediate attendant energy fields, are very much larger than the diameter of an atom and at the same time the frequency of these radiations is very much lower than the frequency of electron orbits forming the shell of the atom. This means that visible light will bounce off an atom rather than pass through it. Sound and touch are much much coarser than visible light, so they too would tend to find a physical object impenetrable.

On the other hand, cosmic rays, a form of electro-magnetic radiation which comes from outer space, have photons much smaller than the diameter of an atom. Not only are cosmic rays able to pass through steel many centimetres thick, but scientists going down into deep mines have found that cosmic rays can penetrate thousands of metres into the Earth.

It is one's mind which interprets his physical senses and passes it on to him, the ego, the conscious, intelligent part of us. So while the physical world is ethereal, to us it appears to be quite substantial.

And of course, this is also true of your body, indeed everyone's body. They are simply illusions. So in actuality, the spiritual realm is the “real world” and the physical universe is the illusionary world.

Regards, David.



Hi SD,

Pursue as you wilt, I don't want to interfere. I simply, as you, have viewpoints concerning this issue.

I don't see a lot of differences between 'material world urges' vs 'spiritual world urges'. An urge is an urge. I think urges are good and can lead to more abundant life. I find the 'worm food' vs 'spiritual whatever' argument to be redundant, and arrogant. There is not one person known who is pusuing something spiritual that doesn't eat and breath to sustain oneself. The relationship to the physical world is primary. Many spiritual pursuits try to convince to the contrary... but the writers of them cannot continue for long without food, water and air. Does that make us mud? I think not. I find the physical universe to be splendid and inspiring. Remove a person from any source of light and watch how slowly but surely their 'spiritual inspiration' fades and chaos reigns. While we are beyond mere survival, I simply find it arrogant and misdirected to assume or believe that the earth that borne us is but 'mud'. It's far more fantastic and powerful than many realize.
 

angel

Patron with Honors
David,

That was a beautiful post. Very intricate. :thumbsup: Check out the book by Carl Johan Calleman, Ph.D. The Mayan Calender, and the Transformation of Consciousness, in regards to the electomagnetic energy in the core of this planet and how it controls the human brain. In our current age the energy has weakened, beginning a gradual spiritual renaisance over the last few decades. Currently microwaves & cell phones have provided an additional energy source to keep things in check. I agree with you that it is important to see the difference between you the spirit and the physical universe, Scn aside.

As far as what I believe, my method thus far has been to take what indicates to me from all the ancient religions of this planet and meld it together. I think that is what we are supposed to be doing. For now I believe that you have to keep comming back around until you prove you have evolved enough. You have to pass in order to gain entry to the next universe. This is why I find this thread relevent.

My question if anyone knows, Is how does the author explain the amnesia?

Jen
 

ThisFenceHurts

Patron with Honors
Hi KnightVision.

I suspect that "desires" rather than "urges" is a better word, but either way, one is the effect of them, so how on earth they could "lead to a more abundant life" surprises me, indeed on the contrary, they lead to a less abundant life.

Just want to chime in here and say that one thing I have completely changed my mind about since I was a practicing Scientologist is the idea that being the effect of something is bad. I know that sounds ridiculous to a die-hard Scientologist, but I think effect=bad is a fixed idea that bears inspection.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi KnightVision.

I suspect that "desires" rather than "urges" is a better word, but either way, one is the effect of them, so how on earth they could "lead to a more abundant life" surprises me, indeed on the contrary, they lead to a less abundant life.

Most people would agree with you that the physical universe as the “real world” and many of these, particularly in the Western World would consider the spiritual realm as an illusionary world. However, if we turn to physics, we find that the atom, indeed, any atom, is almost a perfect vacuum, closer to perfect than outer space, and certainly much closer than we can produce on Earth.

Now, as all objects in our physical universe consist of molecules, which are in turn consist of atoms. As atoms are vacuums, then molecules would be vacuums, then so too are objects. So our physical universe is almost a perfect vacuum, an absence of matter. There is next to nothing there. However, I am not suggesting that the physical universe is an illusion, but rather that our perception of it is illusionary. And it is the coarseness of our senses, that makes us believe that the physical universe is substantial.

To understand this, let us review the nature of our senses. First we have sight. Our eyes respond to visible light, that is electro-magnetic radiation with wavelengths less than infra-red and greater than ultra-violet. All electro-magnetic radiation is considered to consist of “particles” called photons. At these wavelengths, with their immediate attendant energy fields, are very much larger than the diameter of an atom and at the same time the frequency of these radiations is very much lower than the frequency of electron orbits forming the shell of the atom. This means that visible light will bounce off an atom rather than pass through it. Sound and touch are much much coarser than visible light, so they too would tend to find a physical object impenetrable.

On the other hand, cosmic rays, a form of electro-magnetic radiation which comes from outer space, have photons much smaller than the diameter of an atom. Not only are cosmic rays able to pass through steel many centimetres thick, but scientists going down into deep mines have found that cosmic rays can penetrate thousands of metres into the Earth.

It is one's mind which interprets his physical senses and passes it on to him, the ego, the conscious, intelligent part of us. So while the physical world is ethereal, to us it appears to be quite substantial.

And of course, this is also true of your body, indeed everyone's body. They are simply illusions. So in actuality, the spiritual realm is the “real world” and the physical universe is the illusionary world.

Regards, David.

Well said. I think about these things often. Whenever I hear somebody say "reality" in a way that it should be plain for all to see I think that person is thinking with a very narrow scope. The reality that we experience on a day to day basis is an apparency. It is like it's own dimension when not far in the background really strange things are happening that totally don't follow the rules that we are used to. For example a single electron can be in 2 places at the same time.

Another point which comes to mind is dark matter and dark energy. Over 90% of the universe is composed of matter and energy that we cannot detect and have no idea as to what it really is. So much for understanding "reality".
 
Just want to chime in here and say that one thing I have completely changed my mind about since I was a practicing Scientologist is the idea that being the effect of something is bad. I know that sounds ridiculous to a die-hard Scientologist, but I think effect=bad is a fixed idea that bears inspection.

Actually I consider that represents a misunderstanding of scientology on your part. Being at effect is very important to any identity. According to the "communication formula" it is ESSENTIAL to the ability to communicate, just as one example.

Having the ability either to be or not be at "effect" at will would be a valid scientology goal. Being stuck in either condition is indicative of possessing a failing "postulate".


Mark A. Baker
 
Hi KnightVision.

I suspect that "desires" rather than "urges" is a better word, but either way, one is the effect of them, so how on earth they could "lead to a more abundant life" surprises me, indeed on the contrary, they lead to a less abundant life.

Most people would agree with you that the physical universe as the “real world” and many of these, particularly in the Western World would consider the spiritual realm as an illusionary world. However, if we turn to physics, we find that the atom, indeed, any atom, is almost a perfect vacuum, closer to perfect than outer space, and certainly much closer than we can produce on Earth.

Now, as all objects in our physical universe consist of molecules, which are in turn consist of atoms. As atoms are vacuums, then molecules would be vacuums, then so too are objects. So our physical universe is almost a perfect vacuum, an absence of matter. There is next to nothing there. However, I am not suggesting that the physical universe is an illusion, but rather that our perception of it is illusionary. And it is the coarseness of our senses, that makes us believe that the physical universe is substantial.

To understand this, let us review the nature of our senses. First we have sight. Our eyes respond to visible light, that is electro-magnetic radiation with wavelengths less than infra-red and greater than ultra-violet. All electro-magnetic radiation is considered to consist of “particles” called photons. At these wavelengths, with their immediate attendant energy fields, are very much larger than the diameter of an atom and at the same time the frequency of these radiations is very much lower than the frequency of electron orbits forming the shell of the atom. This means that visible light will bounce off an atom rather than pass through it. Sound and touch are much much coarser than visible light, so they too would tend to find a physical object impenetrable.

On the other hand, cosmic rays, a form of electro-magnetic radiation which comes from outer space, have photons much smaller than the diameter of an atom. Not only are cosmic rays able to pass through steel many centimetres thick, but scientists going down into deep mines have found that cosmic rays can penetrate thousands of metres into the Earth.

It is one's mind which interprets his physical senses and passes it on to him, the ego, the conscious, intelligent part of us. So while the physical world is ethereal, to us it appears to be quite substantial.

And of course, this is also true of your body, indeed everyone's body. They are simply illusions. So in actuality, the spiritual realm is the “real world” and the physical universe is the illusionary world.

Regards, David.

:thumbsup:

Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
Well said. I think about these things often. Whenever I hear somebody say "reality" in a way that it should be plain for all to see I think that person is thinking with a very narrow scope. The reality that we experience on a day to day basis is an apparency. It is like it's own dimension when not far in the background really strange things are happening that totally don't follow the rules that we are used to. For example a single electron can be in 2 places at the same time.

Another point which comes to mind is dark matter and dark energy. Over 90% of the universe is composed of matter and energy that we cannot detect and have no idea as to what it really is. So much for understanding "reality".

The idea that matter is mostly empty space, and that "matter" is, itself, merely a kind of motion or vibration of "nothing" has been around for some time. If I recall correctly, Bertrand Russell was the first author I came across who examined this topic. It is fascinating.

I'd be mindful, however, that the same interesting idea - or ideas - can be used to shut down critical analysis of "things," since "things," after all, are but illusions - which they no doubt are.

However, there is what is called "confusing of the planes," and while on the physical plane, interacting with physical things, and making judgements, is - on that "plane" - a perfectly valid endeavor.

I mention this, as - elsewhere, not necesssarily on this thread - there have been attempts, by some, to obscure the discussion of Scientology's failure to "deliver what it promised" in the area of "OT."

Numerous excuses are provided, and one of them is that - "Oh well, it's all an illusion anyway," etc.

That's confusing of the planes, and Scientology's founder, who made millions, and, with fraud, enlisted cheap or near-slave labor, and abused good people for years - and whose alter-ego, Scientology, continues to do so - was/is a major culprit in this regard.

One can - when participating in a more rarefied plane, have control similar to that which was promised by Hubbard (and now his alter-ego) in his/its hyperbolic literature on "OT."

Scientology, in this regard, was a failure - and rather than honestly admit this, Scientology, being Scientology, justifies, rationalizes, and PRs its way around it.

P.S. I'm not suggesting that Mate is a PR person. I don't think he is, but before a cluster on 'em develop, I thought I'd post this brief message. :)
 

mate

Patron Meritorious
Just want to chime in here and say that one thing I have completely changed my mind about since I was a practicing Scientologist is the idea that being the effect of something is bad. I know that sounds ridiculous to a die-hard Scientologist, but I think effect=bad is a fixed idea that bears inspection.

Hi ThisFenceHurts, you do make a very good point.

Knowingly being at effect is, of course, positive as it is intentional. However, unknowingly being at effect is definitely an unsatisfactory situation, such as the desire to have a cigarette or a coffee. These are the result of uninspected physical sensations, which have become automatic. And, indeed, most physical sensations associated with desires requiring fulfillment, are uninspected.

Regards, David.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd be mindful, however, that the same interesting idea - or ideas - can be used to shut down critical analysis of "things," since "things," after all, are but illusions - which they no doubt are.

I'm not trying to suggest that everything is an illusion but that there is just far more happening in the background than meets the eye and that's it's easy for people to think they understand "reality" when they won't even bother to look up at the Milky Way and ask themselves "WTF?".

And what I'm saying doesn't really tie into Scientology as hubbard definitely didn't figure it out.
 
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