Like other religions?

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
...he believed in the spiritual and mental health aspects of Dn and Scn and wanted to develop them, that he had
been doing that in previous lifetimes
...

Do you have some documentation to justify this "previous lifetimes" claim?
I'd like to read it.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think Hubbard did far more than he needed to, in his development and putting forward of his theories and techniques, than he needed to just to get cult members and amass money. Look at the reams of stuff he wrote. He could have done the job with a tenth the material. Other cult leaders HAVE.

But I also know that from reading Dianetics in Limbo (which takes place in the very early 50s) that he was venal from the git-go. So I have come up with my own theory-- he believed in the spiritual and mental health aspects of Dn and Scn and wanted to develop them, that he had been doing that in previous lifetimes (yes, I believe in past lives. I'll just be upfront about it.) but that he thought it might be a great way to bait the hook.

This differs from my earlier theory in which Hubbard meant well THEN got seduced by the money and the power.

I have a different opinion. Hubbard created that cult to earn money. The only ground that he wrote many books was that he had talent to wirte books and he liked it.

In den dreißiger Jahren begann Hubbard einer Begabung nachzugehen, die ihn unbstritten auszeichnete. Er entwickelte sich zu einem fleißigen Schriftsteller.

In the 30 century Hubbard decided to use his talent, that him undoubted distinguished. He developed to a hard-working author.

Minhoff / Müller, Scientology - Irrgarten der Illusionen, München 1994, Page 1

I think Hubbard decided to make his own religion as he had contact to the O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis)

Ralph Tegtmeier, Biograph von Crowley, berichtete von der Begegnung Hubbards mit Okkultismus und Magie: "Der vielversprechende junge Hubbard, von Parson in die Loge Agapé eingeführt erwies sich als gelehriger Schüler und gab schon bald den Ton an. Vom Partnertuasch mit Parsons Frau einmal abgesehen, wollte er mit seinem Freund zusammen noch ein "magisches Kind" erschaffen wie es Crowley in seinem Roman "Moonchild" beschrieben hatte."

(My poor translation)
"Ralph Tegtmeier, the biographer of Crowley, reported on the meeting with Hubbard's occult and magic: "The promising young Hubbard, got introduced to the Parson Agapé it turned out that he was a apt pupil, and he lead other members. He changed his wife with Parsons woman. He wanted to create together with his friend a "magic child" as Crowley had described in his novel "Moon Child". "


Minhoff / Müller, Scientology - Irrgarten der Illusionen, München 1994, Page 3

After his contact to O.T.O. he wrote his book Dianetik. (Minhoff / Müller, Scientology - Irrgarten der Illusionen, München 1994, Page 4)

He knew what he wrote and he knew allways what he did, including the mind control.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Do you have some documentation to justify this "previous lifetimes" claim?
I'd like to read it.

Not written, but I seem to recall in one of the Clearing Course films he mentioned it. He said he got killed on a battlefield and described something esoteric he saw and that was when he decided to investigate the phenomena involved.

Now I wouldn't believe a word of it, of course.

Paul
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
hmm.. Hubbard mentioned 12 british bankers at one time.. Was this an actual indication of an existing group, or was it a deliberate 'false target' to protect and maybe reassure the actual existing power groups?

:unsure:

Well, I know there is a real group called the Builderberg group from the name of the hotel they were first observed meeting at composed of big banking families; Rockefeller, Rothschild and such, along with European royalty and other rich and influential people. They meet once a year, I believe. If there are people who are behind the scenes pulling strings, this would be them.

The really weird thing is the main stream media denied their existence for years, and called anyone who claimed it was a real group a conspiracy nut. Now, however, they acknowledge it's existence, but downplay it's importance. They were forced to do this by a grass roots movement of people, some of whom where journalists, who got access to inside info on their meetings.
 
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Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Almost all "initiatory" religions do. This includes many traditional religions of Africa and their offshoots such as Vodou, Santeria, Lukumi. Additionally, there are many modern pagan sects that have secret levels, e.g. English Traditional Wicca.

Outside of the Abrahamic faiths, I'd say it's fairly common, and there's even aspects of it in Catholicism.

I guess it's how you define the word 'religion'. I've heard people refer to things like surfing and rock and roll as their religion.

I would include things like Wicca and voodoo to be 'secret societies' and cults more than religion, but that's my opinion.

Take Freemasonry. They claim 'we're not a secret organization, but an organization with secrets.'

Uh....sure.....
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess it's how you define the word 'religion'. I've heard people refer to things like surfing and rock and roll as their religion.

I would include things like Wicca and voodoo to be 'secret societies' and cults more than religion, but that's my opinion.

Take Freemasonry. They claim 'we're not a secret organization, but an organization with secrets.'

Uh....sure.....

I certainly believe there are people who consider nearly all kinds of things their religion -- and they probably are, for them.

Some Wicca groups are very open. Some are not. I wouldn't call Wicca a cult -- most of the groups I've associated with were very loose and relaxed (which is why I picked them, frankly, I am just done with rules). One of the aspects of a cult is the social control, and Wiccans just don't seem interested in that.

Voodoo is initiatory so far as I'm aware (not a practitioner, myself, but I do know several who are).

I'd call Freemasonry initiatory as well. And probably a religious practice in its own peculiar little way.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Some Wicca groups are very open. Some are not. I wouldn't call Wicca a cult -- most of the groups I've associated with were very loose and relaxed (which is why I picked them, frankly, I am just done with rules). One of the aspects of a cult is the social control, and Wiccans just don't seem interested in that.

:hifive:
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I certainly believe there are people who consider nearly all kinds of things their religion -- and they probably are, for them.

Some Wicca groups are very open. Some are not. I wouldn't call Wicca a cult -- most of the groups I've associated with were very loose and relaxed (which is why I picked them, frankly, I am just done with rules). One of the aspects of a cult is the social control, and Wiccans just don't seem interested in that.

Voodoo is initiatory so far as I'm aware (not a practitioner, myself, but I do know several who are).

I'd call Freemasonry initiatory as well. And probably a religious practice in its own peculiar little way.


There is no question that masonry is 'initiatory'. And they don't claim to be a religion, either. They make it sort of a requirement that you have a religion in that you have to believe in God. They just don't specify details.

I suspect this is because many lodges in America, for instance, had both Jews and Christians as members. However, although all blue lodges (the beginning levels) and both the Scottish and York Rites have the candidates take oaths on the Bible, the Shriners, who are a masonic affiliated organization, give the candidate the choice of a Bible, a Koran, or the Baghavad Gita.

I didn't see anyone choose any other book besides the Bible on the day I went through it, though, and there where over a hundred candidates.

So, the real 'initiatory' groups either consider religion a different thing, or in the case of the real esoteric ones, that they are above religion, in that they understand what's really going on better than anyone who believes in a main stream religion.
 

paolo

Patron
brainwashed cult members, trained to lie for their Father

Here is an artical that has some scary parralells with the Cult of DM. Sunday services were just a PR move so the outsiders would feel that Scientology was more like a "church."

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/24652/marcus-wesson-family-brainwashed-by-dad-struggles-to-heal

this is a quote from the artical above:

Wesson mixed ruthlessness with indoctrination. His Bible studies and prayer sessions would last for hours. His children told ABC News that they didn’t realize they were living in a hellish situation because they were born into it and had no outside influences to teach them otherwise.

Hummm sounds like Scientology, Hrs of TR's and sec checking and or auditing. Clay demos and all the 2nd Gen's that are in the Sea Org or on Staff.

P
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
Sunday Services became mandatory sometime in the early 2000s, I became a minister as well, but thankfully never had to run a service. The courseroom had to close for it and the students did NOT have a choice, they had to go to the service. They started off great, but over the next few years there were less and less people attending, so that lovely job of staff members - CALL IN - became a weekly phenomonon. What other church has to do call-in for sunder service?? Jeeezuz.

We only ever had one or two walk-ins at Sunday service, and they were baffled at the rediculous idea of doing the same actions in the processing over and over again. I think only one ever stayed to the end. She never came back. I personally found the group processing boring and never got any gains from it, and judging by how many people always fell asleep during it, I wasnt the only one.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Not written, but I seem to recall in one of the Clearing Course films he mentioned it. He said he got killed on a battlefield and described something esoteric he saw and that was when he decided to investigate the phenomena involved.

Now I wouldn't believe a word of it, of course.

Paul

Well, I remember that LRH said on one taped lecture that no one would find Scientology anywhere on the Whole Track (i.e. Scientology is new). Sorry, I don't remember which lecture I heard that... but I did hear it. He did say that.
 
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