Lisa Mcpherson Wrongful Death Civil Suit, Settled or Not?

Introspection...what? Oh yeah RUN DOWN. As in run the victim down until they are destroyed.

All of the "Bridge": is a "run down" It is all introspective. Even the bits that are supposed to be "objective" are about navel gazing your thetan, your bank, your case and your universe to see how good or bad it feels.
 
RIP Lisa

Its amazing to see early people like Karen break down stuff in a sensible fashion so outsiders can understand the inner workings a little better. Having the whole back story really helps with that. Thanks.
 
Did he now?

Doubtless you can provide us with an exact citation wherein Ron Hubbard said that ?

Clearly, Scientology is using the Introspection Rundown in the United Kingdom , and concerns about its legality and safety have surfaced there.


http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~skent/Linkedfiles/mcpherson.htm

á The ordeal, therefore, that Lisa McPherson was subjected to appears to be widespread in the Scientology organization. Scientologists have used what came to be called the Introspection Rundown for decades in different parts of the world. The members who oversee the psychotic 'patients' do not seem to be licensed to practice either psychiatry or medicine, and the 'patients' themselves always appear to be suffering severe psychiatric distress. Ironically, given what happened to Lisa McPherson, even Scientologists knew (according to Hubbard's 1965 statements that Scientology reprinted in 1987) that some psychotics "sometimes can't be kept alive" (Hubbard, 1965: 4).



http://www.skeptictank.org/nl/nutl453.htm
[from] HCOB 24 November 1965 "Search and Discovery"

"But removed from apparent SPs, kept in a quiet surrounding, not pestered or threatened or put in fear, the person comes up to type two and a search and discovery should end the matter. But there will always be some failures as the insane sometimes withdraw into rigid unawareness as a final defense, sometimes can't be kept alive and sometimes are too hectic and distraught to ever become quiet. The extremes of too quiet and never quiet have a number of psychiatric names such as 'catatonia' (withdrawn totally) and 'manic' (too hectic).

Isn't it great how you just have to click a button now to get all this stuff Sneaks.? Betcha thought everyone would just STFU didn't you?
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Clearly, Scientology is using the Introspection Rundown in the United Kingdom , and concerns about its legality and safety have surfaced there.


http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~skent/Linkedfiles/mcpherson.htm

á The ordeal, therefore, that Lisa McPherson was subjected to appears to be widespread in the Scientology organization. Scientologists have used what came to be called the Introspection Rundown for decades in different parts of the world. The members who oversee the psychotic 'patients' do not seem to be licensed to practice either psychiatry or medicine, and the 'patients' themselves always appear to be suffering severe psychiatric distress. Ironically, given what happened to Lisa McPherson, even Scientologists knew (according to Hubbard's 1965 statements that Scientology reprinted in 1987) that some psychotics "sometimes can't be kept alive" (Hubbard, 1965: 4).



http://www.skeptictank.org/nl/nutl453.htm
[from] HCOB 24 November 1965 "Search and Discovery"

"But removed from apparent SPs, kept in a quiet surrounding, not pestered or threatened or put in fear, the person comes up to type two and a search and discovery should end the matter. But there will always be some failures as the insane sometimes withdraw into rigid unawareness as a final defense, sometimes can't be kept alive and sometimes are too hectic and distraught to ever become quiet. The extremes of too quiet and never quiet have a number of psychiatric names such as 'catatonia' (withdrawn totally) and 'manic' (too hectic).

Isn't it great how you just have to click a button now to get all this stuff Sneaks.? Betcha thought everyone would just STFU didn't you?

Isn't Hubbard so predictable?

Again, if the person doesn't get better with the Introspection RD it's because they were INSANE!!!!! It was the person's fault - like always when Scientology "doesn't work" and "fails to get results".

The "tech" never fails and always works, and when it doesn't it is NEVER a problem with the "tech", and instead the blame lies in an SP, or PTS, or out-ethics, or insanity, or some other handy-handy explanation (excuse) for why there was no "case gain".

How convenient! :no:
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Isn't Hubbard so predictable?

Again, if the person doesn't get better with the Introspection RD it's because they were INSANE!!!!!

<...>

How convenient! :no:


How convenient indeed!

free-MrBurnsExcellent.gif
 

Mystic

Crusader
OMG, Mega, that is really interesting. I thought the whole Lisa thing was dead and covered up, but no, as you have shown.

Thank you for this mucho heads-upness.
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
http://www.skeptictank.org/nl/nutl453.htm
[from] HCOB 24 November 1965 "Search and Discovery"

"But removed from apparent SPs, kept in a quiet surrounding, not pestered or threatened or put in fear, the person comes up to type two and a search and discovery should end the matter. But there will always be some failures as the insane sometimes withdraw into rigid unawareness as a final defense, sometimes can't be kept alive and sometimes are too hectic and distraught to ever become quiet. The extremes of too quiet and never quiet have a number of psychiatric names such as 'catatonia' (withdrawn totally) and 'manic' (too hectic).

Isn't it great how you just have to click a button now to get all this stuff Sneaks.? Betcha thought everyone would just STFU didn't you?

Actually, I wished to see whether Captain Koolaid knew what he was talking about and you have now preempted that.

However, the issue you cited which is primarily about the procedure for finding a PTS person's SP, was written in 1965 when there was no Introspection Rundown (1974). Bit of a stretch, therefore, to claim it was (in 1965) intended to excuse people dying during the isolation phase of the latter procedure (1974), don't you think ?
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Actually, I wished to see whether Captain Koolaid knew what he was talking about and you have now preempted that.

However, the issue you cited which is primarily about the procedure for finding a PTS person's SP, was written in 1965 when there was no Introspection Rundown (1974). Bit of a stretch, therefore, to claim it was (in 1965) intended to excuse people dying during the isolation phase of the latter procedure (1974), don't you think ?

Also its a bit of a stretch to use semantic trivialities to overlook a throwaway comment that a member sometimes can't be kept alive during a process in which they are denied medical treatment - don't you think?

In the wog world, that is called murder.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
I heard that Dandar took another wrongful death case...

IF that is true, and after looking at the docket...
Perhaps this is what is going on..

The Lisa case was settled, the case file was sealed

In 2009 the court reports that all case files have been destroyed per the settlement agreement..so it is over

Dandar may have sought to introduce evidence from McPherson case in his new case., those filing he had would have been stipulated as sealed...or similar.

scientology then sought to enforce the agreed upon settlement agreement sealing the LISA case and trying to bar Dandar from using McPherson filings in his new case.

Somebody appealed this to the appellate court

Somebody, likely Scientology wanted their attorney fees for fighting or winning that appeal


--------------

I am not a lawyer but have fired a dozen of them to survive litigation with Scientology...
 
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anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
The worst thing for me about the Lisa McPherson tragedy is the apparent lack of human warmth and kindness towards her.

As she lay dying in extreme physical, emotional and spiritual distress did anyone touch or hold her to comfort her as a human being?
Please tell me someone did that, at least.
 
The worst thing for me about the Lisa McPherson tragedy is the apparent lack of human warmth and kindness towards her.

As she lay dying in extreme physical, emotional and spiritual distress did anyone touch or hold her to comfort her as a human being?
Please tell me someone did that, at least.

I think they tried not to touch her and to keep anyone from touching her.
I don't think they tried to do anthing to her or for her as a human being, because they don't like human beings (meat bodies). They DID try to do something with her (not for her) as a PTS out ethics inconvenient thetan whose inconvenient meat body was beginning to create a negative PR SIT for them. What they tried to do with her and her meat body was to control the PR flap that murder would cause THEM. Some of that involved keeping her away from medics too close to the scene of the crime who would probably not play cover-up for them. So they even tried to prevent medics from touching her, until it was too late.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
I think they tried not to touch her and to keep anyone from touching her.
I don't think they tried to do anthing to her or for her as a human being, because they don't like human beings (meat bodies). They DID try to do something with her (not for her) as a PTS out ethics inconvenient thetan whose inconvenient meat body was beginning to create a negative PR SIT for them. What they tried to do with her and her meat body was to control the PR flap that murder would cause THEM. Some of that involved keeping her away from medics too close to the scene of the crime who would probably not play cover-up for them. So they even tried to prevent medics from touching her, until it was too late.

Yes, that is pretty much how I read it too. The fact that this isolating of people in such dire distress is amazingly inhuman and twisted, but pretty much on par with Hubbard's way of dealing with things he did not understand or wanted to distance himself from, and this is reflected in what he wrote and the attitude that his blatherings have created within the people following his drivel. ( I must add to this, his own way of dealing with his ex wives and kids, a fine and shiny example all should pay attention to)
Lordy help a world controlled by such, 'a world without insanity and crime' *shudder*
~ by all indications a place that would isolate and ignore, silently 'remove', those who didn't fit into the Hubbard mold, be they insane, mildly disturbed, gay, dumb, deaf, or any other 'not up to snuff' factors.
~I fight with myself not to 'Godwin', but alas tisn't possible. I have always had the feeling the fat, drugged-up drunken moonbat Lron rather admired the tyrants of the world, they had 'control', they just didn't 'make it go right', no doubt in my mind he tried his demented best at it.

Fuck you Lron! :grouch::grouch::grouch:

Mini-rant over.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think they tried not to touch her and to keep anyone from touching her.
I don't think they tried to do anthing to her or for her as a human being, because they don't like human beings (meat bodies). They DID try to do something with her (not for her) as a PTS out ethics inconvenient thetan whose inconvenient meat body was beginning to create a negative PR SIT for them. What they tried to do with her and her meat body was to control the PR flap that murder would cause THEM. Some of that involved keeping her away from medics too close to the scene of the crime who would probably not play cover-up for them. So they even tried to prevent medics from touching her, until it was too late.

Yup, I understand that to be the case too.
To think there are still some people, who knowing this, still support the philosophy that allowed the situation to occur in the first place.
The same person who "lost" documents because he KNEW it was utterly criminal is promoting the same philosophy that allowed the situation to occur in the first place.
:angry:
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I heard that Dandar took another wrongful death case...

IF that is true, and after looking at the docket...
Perhaps this is what is going on

Ken Dandar was barred from pursuing further wrongful death cases against the Church of Scientology per his signed agreement in the McPherson case. State court judge Beach fined Dandar $50,000 and threatened to start the adminstrative processtake to disbar him if he did not remove himself from the Kyle Brennan case.

Federal judge Merryman stepped in and overruled Judge Beach & said Dandar could not remove himself from the case. Scientology appealed. The 11th Circuit reversed the $50,000 fine against Dandar but also ruled that federal judge Merryman had erred and the appeals court reversed his order.

It appears Beach's original order to have Dandar removed from the Brennan case will stand after some legal issues are resolved and subsequent appeals are exhausted.

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/201014967.pdf

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1555596.html
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
The worst thing for me about the Lisa McPherson tragedy is the apparent lack of human warmth and kindness towards her.

As she lay dying in extreme physical, emotional and spiritual distress did anyone touch or hold her to comfort her as a human being?
Please tell me someone did that, at least.

Yes! The apparent complete lack of human caring is what makes her death so particularly heinous. Although I very much doubt that her death was deliberate or premeditated it would certainly seem to qualify as "depraved indifference".
 

Veda

Sponsor
THE TECHNICAL BREAKTHROUGH OF 1973!
THE INTROSPECTION RD

I have made a technical breakthrough which possibly ranks with the major discoveries of the twentieth century. It is certainly the greatest achievement of 1973 and is now being released after a final write-up of the research. It is called the Introspection Rundown.​


THE LAST REASON TO HAVE PSYCHIATRY AROUND IS GONE.

THIS PLANET IS OURS.

Psychos in ISOLATION

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The anti-Scientologist

H,E&R, Human Emotion and Reaction

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secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
I seem to remember that Elli Perkins, a caring woman but also a Scientologist, tried to treat her schizophrenic son Jeremy with isolation and vitamins. It didn't work for him either.

In this case she is dead and I believe Jeremy is in long-term psychiatric care, both because he needs it and because his father and his siblings being faithful Scientologists have no doubt disconnected from him. Mind you, he is probably better off in the loony bin.
 
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