Little Miscavige Slaps Preclear

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I can't help but wonder if Ron Miscavige Snr slapped Dave when he was a kid.

I heard that he hit his wife, Loretta, causing visible facial bruising, on more than one occasion and ended up in Ethics more than once at Saint Hill for it (early 1970s). That's about all the detail I have. He might have slapped her a few times over ten years or he might have punched and kicked her all over every night — I don't know.

I heard nothing about him hitting little Davey. I could speculate that a man who strikes his wife would have less restraint about using corporal punishment on a child, especially as we're talking about a time when corporal punishment on children wasn't such a hot topic as today.

Paul
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I don't know how the hell anyone who was present at the time justified it but the average scientologist doesn't need to justify this, they don't know about it. I was in for 34 years and never heard anything about it.

That, in part, was my point. They will simply deny that this latest tale from Miscavige ever happened, and that those who are spreading it about are SPs.
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
I can't help but wonder if Ron Miscavige Snr slapped Dave when he was a kid.

It's funny, I've met all the Miscaviges but Dave. I even know his twin sister.

Freethinker, I was berthing mates with Ron Miscavige Snr. and his wife Becky Miscavige from 1992-1997. I got along with Ron most of the time, but he was an absolute slob. As well, they had a white, fluffy cat that constantly had fleas, and to handle that, Ron would literally hold the cat down in the bathtub, soak her and comb the fleas out (which she didn't seem to mind) - instead of getting her de-flead with product. His method didn't work and made the situation worse. I kept getting bitten on my legs, and it started to really get on my nerves. Finally, I confronted Ron and told him that as an SO member, he needed to raise his standards, get his space clean and handle the fleas. I never saw Ron flip like he did, but it was like a switch was flipped. He turned bright red and ran straight at me. I was standing in my doorway at the time and he shoved me all the way back to my bed. Slammed me down on it and proceeded to strangle me. I couldn't remove his hands or breathe. He was screaming at me that he didn't have to do shit and that I needed to mind my own business. I started coughing and I guess was turning red myself and he finally let go. I wasn't sure what to do. The thought in my head at first was to report it immediately to HCO, but Ron came in a few minutes later to apologize and plead with me not to report what just happened. He said that he was under so much stress already working in the Music department that he just "snapped." He asked me to just leave that incident between us and that it would never happen again. Well, it never happened again, but that was the last time I ever had a "confrontation" with Ron Snr. I even remember wondering how he must have been as a dad and if he was rough with his kids like that. Though, this was one incident in 5 years, his response to my taking issue with him (and that was the first and only time) was to slam me down and strangle me. I'll never forget it. When he was strangling me, I saw in his eyes that he really wanted to kill me right then and there. I really didn't think he was going to stop. This is true.

P.S., I ended up purchasing with my own money flea killer that you put on the carpet AND a flea collar for the kitty.
 
Freethinker, I was berthing mates with Ron Miscavige Snr. and his wife Becky Miscavige from 1992-1997. I got along with Ron most of the time, but he was an absolute slob. As well, they had a white, fluffy cat that constantly had fleas, and to handle that, Ron would literally hold the cat down in the bathtub, soak her and comb the fleas out (which she didn't seem to mind) - instead of getting her de-flead with product. His method didn't work and made the situation worse. I kept getting bitten on my legs, and it started to really get on my nerves. Finally, I confronted Ron and told him that as an SO member, he needed to raise his standards, get his space clean and handle the fleas. I never saw Ron flip like he did, but it was like a switch was flipped. He turned bright red and ran straight at me. I was standing in my doorway at the time and he shoved me all the way back to my bed. Slammed me down on it and proceeded to strangle me. I couldn't remove his hands or breathe. He was screaming at me that he didn't have to do shit and that I needed to mind my own business. I started coughing and I guess was turning red myself and he finally let go. I wasn't sure what to do. The thought in my head at first was to report it immediately to HCO, but Ron came in a few minutes later to apologize and plead with me not to report what just happened. He said that he was under so much stress already working in the Music department that he just "snapped." He asked me to just leave that incident between us and that it would never happen again. Well, it never happened again, but that was the last time I ever had a "confrontation" with Ron Snr. I even remember wondering how he must have been as a dad and if he was rough with his kids like that. Though, this was one incident in 5 years, his response to my taking issue with him (and that was the first and only time) was to slam me down and strangle me. I'll never forget it. When he was strangling me, I saw in his eyes that he really wanted to kill me right then and there. I really didn't think he was going to stop. This is true.

P.S., I ended up purchasing with my own money flea killer that you put on the carpet AND a flea collar for the kitty.

Jesse Prince, re Davey's Dad. And anyone can google your own research about rapists and the % probabilities of repeats of this crime. Don't have time at moment to get links to later mysterious "suicide" of Loretta.
http://www.skeptictank.org/gen1/gen00306.htm
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Freethinker, I was berthing mates with Ron Miscavige Snr. and his wife Becky Miscavige from 1992-1997. I got along with Ron most of the time, but he was an absolute slob. As well, they had a white, fluffy cat that constantly had fleas, and to handle that, Ron would literally hold the cat down in the bathtub, soak her and comb the fleas out (which she didn't seem to mind) - instead of getting her de-flead with product. His method didn't work and made the situation worse. I kept getting bitten on my legs, and it started to really get on my nerves. Finally, I confronted Ron and told him that as an SO member, he needed to raise his standards, get his space clean and handle the fleas. I never saw Ron flip like he did, but it was like a switch was flipped. He turned bright red and ran straight at me. I was standing in my doorway at the time and he shoved me all the way back to my bed. Slammed me down on it and proceeded to strangle me. I couldn't remove his hands or breathe. He was screaming at me that he didn't have to do shit and that I needed to mind my own business. I started coughing and I guess was turning red myself and he finally let go. I wasn't sure what to do. The thought in my head at first was to report it immediately to HCO, but Ron came in a few minutes later to apologize and plead with me not to report what just happened. He said that he was under so much stress already working in the Music department that he just "snapped." He asked me to just leave that incident between us and that it would never happen again. Well, it never happened again, but that was the last time I ever had a "confrontation" with Ron Snr. I even remember wondering how he must have been as a dad and if he was rough with his kids like that. Though, this was one incident in 5 years, his response to my taking issue with him (and that was the first and only time) was to slam me down and strangle me. I'll never forget it. When he was strangling me, I saw in his eyes that he really wanted to kill me right then and there. I really didn't think he was going to stop. This is true.

P.S., I ended up purchasing with my own money flea killer that you put on the carpet AND a flea collar for the kitty.

Thanks for this info...wow!:thumbsup:

I knew Da Monster and Daddy Da Monster. Like father, like son. DDM was a self-centered, obnoxiously aggressive, amoral and manipulative con man. DDM was very, very proud of how DM turned out. :omg:

Face:)
 
Thanks for this info...wow!:thumbsup:

I knew Da Monster and Daddy Da Monster. Like father, like son. DDM was a self-centered, obnoxiously aggressive, amoral and manipulative con man. DDM was very, very proud of how DM turned out. :omg:

Face:)

I'm very proud of my son. we should all be proud of our children.

This is my youngest (and best) son:

picture.php
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Beating the crap out of a PC must be an unusual comm cycle additive.

Is it not also a high crime?

I have nothing against being a declared suppressive, but I don't want to be in the same club as the evil shrimp.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Freethinker, I was berthing mates with Ron Miscavige Snr. and his wife Becky Miscavige from 1992-1997. I got along with Ron most of the time, but he was an absolute slob. As well, they had a white, fluffy cat that constantly had fleas, and to handle that, Ron would literally hold the cat down in the bathtub, soak her and comb the fleas out (which she didn't seem to mind) - instead of getting her de-flead with product. His method didn't work and made the situation worse. I kept getting bitten on my legs, and it started to really get on my nerves. Finally, I confronted Ron and told him that as an SO member, he needed to raise his standards, get his space clean and handle the fleas. I never saw Ron flip like he did, but it was like a switch was flipped. He turned bright red and ran straight at me. I was standing in my doorway at the time and he shoved me all the way back to my bed. Slammed me down on it and proceeded to strangle me. I couldn't remove his hands or breathe. He was screaming at me that he didn't have to do shit and that I needed to mind my own business. I started coughing and I guess was turning red myself and he finally let go. I wasn't sure what to do. The thought in my head at first was to report it immediately to HCO, but Ron came in a few minutes later to apologize and plead with me not to report what just happened. He said that he was under so much stress already working in the Music department that he just "snapped." He asked me to just leave that incident between us and that it would never happen again. Well, it never happened again, but that was the last time I ever had a "confrontation" with Ron Snr. I even remember wondering how he must have been as a dad and if he was rough with his kids like that. Though, this was one incident in 5 years, his response to my taking issue with him (and that was the first and only time) was to slam me down and strangle me. I'll never forget it. When he was strangling me, I saw in his eyes that he really wanted to kill me right then and there. I really didn't think he was going to stop. This is true.

P.S., I ended up purchasing with my own money flea killer that you put on the carpet AND a flea collar for the kitty.

Well the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it . . .
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I'm sorry; I just don't buy that an auditor beating up a PC is some kind of 'line' that can't be crossed in scientology. It all would depend on who the auditor was and who the PC was and a 'successful' Scientologist would find perfectly acceptable excuses for anything that Scientology proclaimed 'correct'.

It's when someone *stops* making excuses that he ceases to be a 'successful' Scientologist.

Zinj
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
There are probably some who would make excuses, but personally I can't imagine any auditor, CS, or ethics officer in my day (at St Hill UK) condoning an auditor striking a pc. Don't forget, most scientologists are decent people, though brainwashed.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
What can I say?

In 1965, Hubbard issued the policy letter HCOPL 1 Sep 1965 (reissued 5 Oct 1985) entitled "Ethics Protection". In it, he states that "Ethics actions are often used to handle down individual statistics. A person who is not doing his job becomes an Ethics target" and goes on to detail how a Scientologist can protect himself from Ethics punishment by being more productive and keeping statistics up:

"In short, a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic is up and can't sneeze without a chop if it's down."

If the staff member's production is sufficiently high (as evidenced by an up statistic), the Scientologist gains an immunity to the Ethics process, even if they have openly committed violations:

"When people do start reporting a staff member with a high statistic, what you investigate is the person who turned in the report. In an ancient army a particularly brave deed was recognized by an award of the title of Kha-Khan. It was not a rank. The person remained what he was, BUT he was entitled to be forgiven the death penalty ten times in case in the future he did anything wrong. That was a Kha-Khan. That's what producing, high-statistic staff members are - Kha-Khans. They can get away with murder without a blink from Ethics.... And Ethics must recognize a Kha-Khan when it sees one - and tear up the bad report chits on the person with a yawn."

Why an auditor striking a PC wouldn't fit into that scene is beyond me. In fact, I just plain don't buy it.

It might be shocking, but, 'shock' is something that can be handled.

Zinj
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
Ok Zinj. It's just that policy is one thing, and opposing policies can be brought to bear on any situation in scientology. But what I am talking about is my memory of the people I worked with and my assessment of how they would view even the possibility of an auditor striking a pc. Such an act goes so far outside the training of an auditor, it is impossible for me to conceive of such a thing happening without extremely dire consequences for the auditor. No matter what his/her stats protection, it would be a step far too far. And DM being kicked off the internship does not seem to go nearly far enough, so I am perplexed that it happened and that he didn't suffer more severe consequences.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
What can I say?
<...snip>
Why an auditor striking a PC wouldn't fit into that scene is beyond me. In fact, I just plain don't buy it.

It might be shocking, but, 'shock' is something that can be handled.

Zinj
I understand what you're saying, Zinj, but I can't think of a single person I know or knew in 34 years as a scientologist that would accept any reason given for an Auditor striking a PC.

I've seen HCO personnel physically fight with staff and public, I've seen RTC Reps and Execs face-rip staff and public mercilessly, I've seen scientologists fight each other BUT, until reading this thread, I've never heard of an Auditor striking a PC (the Hubbard brag-story aside).

I believe it happened and I believe it tells us everything we need to know about what scientology has become under Miscavige's rule. The seeds were always there; Hubbard sowed them, we plowed and watered the fields, Miscavige is reaping.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I put Lorreta through a ProTRs retread. She was a very nice person who used her hands too much when she talked. She said it was the Italian in her. I got her through without her using her hands but I'l bet she went back to it.
I heard that he hit his wife, Loretta, causing visible facial bruising, on more than one occasion and ended up in Ethics more than once at Saint Hill for it (early 1970s). That's about all the detail I have. He might have slapped her a few times over ten years or he might have punched and kicked her all over every night — I don't know.

I heard nothing about him hitting little Davey. I could speculate that a man who strikes his wife would have less restraint about using corporal punishment on a child, especially as we're talking about a time when corporal punishment on children wasn't such a hot topic as today.

Paul

That must have been one creepy experience. Glad he didn't kill you.

It's interesting that he used choking and Dave uses choking and Ron Jr. is about as mild mannered as you can get. How bizarre.
Freethinker, I was berthing mates with Ron Miscavige Snr. and his wife Becky Miscavige from 1992-1997. I got along with Ron most of the time, but he was an absolute slob. As well, they had a white, fluffy cat that constantly had fleas, and to handle that, Ron would literally hold the cat down in the bathtub, soak her and comb the fleas out (which she didn't seem to mind) - instead of getting her de-flead with product. His method didn't work and made the situation worse. I kept getting bitten on my legs, and it started to really get on my nerves. Finally, I confronted Ron and told him that as an SO member, he needed to raise his standards, get his space clean and handle the fleas. I never saw Ron flip like he did, but it was like a switch was flipped. He turned bright red and ran straight at me. I was standing in my doorway at the time and he shoved me all the way back to my bed. Slammed me down on it and proceeded to strangle me. I couldn't remove his hands or breathe. He was screaming at me that he didn't have to do shit and that I needed to mind my own business. I started coughing and I guess was turning red myself and he finally let go. I wasn't sure what to do. The thought in my head at first was to report it immediately to HCO, but Ron came in a few minutes later to apologize and plead with me not to report what just happened. He said that he was under so much stress already working in the Music department that he just "snapped." He asked me to just leave that incident between us and that it would never happen again. Well, it never happened again, but that was the last time I ever had a "confrontation" with Ron Snr. I even remember wondering how he must have been as a dad and if he was rough with his kids like that. Though, this was one incident in 5 years, his response to my taking issue with him (and that was the first and only time) was to slam me down and strangle me. I'll never forget it. When he was strangling me, I saw in his eyes that he really wanted to kill me right then and there. I really didn't think he was going to stop. This is true.

P.S., I ended up purchasing with my own money flea killer that you put on the carpet AND a flea collar for the kitty.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
There are probably some who would make excuses, but personally I can't imagine any auditor, CS, or ethics officer in my day (at St Hill UK) condoning an auditor striking a pc. Don't forget, most scientologists are decent people, though brainwashed.

Although I believe that DM struck people as COB, I tend not to believe that he struck any PC as an auditor (if he ever was one).
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I understand what you're saying, Zinj, but I can't think of a single person I know or knew in 34 years as a scientologist that would accept any reason given for an Auditor striking a PC.

No one, as far as I can tell, is saying that it is "okay" to strike a PC. Rather, the consequences upon the perpetrator depend on whether or not the Ethics cycle applies to them. As confirmed by the policy referenced by Zinjifar, if stats are up, murder is okay. Welcome to the doctrine of KSW.
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, Blip, Kia Ora, but policy did not determine what actually happened always. In fact in my experience policy was often not followed or referred to, despite KSW. I'm trying to be real here, and imo, stats would not have protected any auditor from the consequences of striking a pc. In theory, yes, in practice, no.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
No one, as far as I can tell, is saying that it is "okay" to strike a PC. Rather, the consequences upon the perpetrator depend on whether or not the Ethics cycle applies to them. As confirmed by the policy referenced by Zinjifar, if stats are up, murder is okay. Welcome to the doctrine of KSW.
Read what I wrote in the context of the preceding few posts.

Zinj said, "I'm sorry; I just don't buy that an auditor beating up a PC is some kind of 'line' that can't be crossed in scientology. It all would depend on who the auditor was and who the PC was and a 'successful' Scientologist would find perfectly acceptable excuses for anything that Scientology proclaimed 'correct'."

My post is in answer to that statement and the resulting dialogue with Kutta.
 
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