Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addiction

RandomCat

Patron with Honors
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

...I know it’s not uncommon for former Scientologists to turn to drugs and/or alcohol to cope...
I too am wondering what this knowledge is based on. :confused2:

I've been coming to this forum for about 5 years now, and I haven't caught any hint of this being a common problem for ex-scientologist. (I was never 'in' myself).
During this time I've also regularly visited a couple of rational-thought/skepticism forums, and there is more talk their about going overboard with alcohol/drugs than compared to this forum...
And even with this, it doesn't appear that the great majority of members of those skepticism forums have an addiction problem.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

Leaving the cult didn't lead me to drugs and alcohol.

But experiencing ESMB on the other hand......well...

:booze: :bong:
 

RandomCat

Patron with Honors
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

Oh, please, will someone with knowledge of medicine please provide a simple, understandable explanation of how toxins are metabolized in the human body?

Nothing " too clinical" - just a simple explanation of long known physiologywill do.
http://skepdic.com/detox.html

Real detoxification of foreign substances takes place in the liver, which modifies their chemical structure so they can be excreted by the kidneys which filter them from the blood into the urine. --Stephen Barrett, M.D.
 

cleared cannibal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

I actually had more potential addiction problems when I was in Scn. Trying to escape from the reality that it was BS I guess.

Practicing a religion and belief system in which you don't believe will give a powerful incentive to escape reality. Cognitive dissonance just kept me from seeing this for a long time. I was told it was my reactive mind making me feel this way and it always gets worse before it gets better. All I can say is that when I stopped processing I felt better.

As recently as this week I was told I was not confronting reality and I am a coward spiritually, coming from some one you care about this still has the power to hurt. I guess they forgot the "It has to be true to you to be true " line.

Other than the difficulties of functioning in life with out money and education and for many without family support most exs seem to do pretty well after they get through the initial rough patch and see how the world really works.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

" - It tells me that some turned to Scn as a substitute for, or a "handling" for drugs.
I really did feel left out when I heard all the "trips down memory lane" regarding great highs and trips people had been on.
So I just "had to" make up for lost time when I got out and at last count I'd spent more on drugs than I had on Scn services.
Though for an occasional drink or what not it's all behind me now.
Gracias addios!

I was at a leading Mission, and I can tell you that pretty much everyone had or still did use some kind of mind-expander. I don't think they wanted to be cured, but as you remember, trying things is what youth did. Like meditation - you can find your mantra! That is what I attribute the success of the cult to, in those days. Try LSD, Try Meditation. There's scientology, you can try that, too. It was the experimental generation. 99% of people there tried it, and then returned to their lives. The 1% got snagged into cult life, and joined staff, but none stayed.[/QUOTE]

I've been surprised when friends of mine while I was in admitted years later that they were doing everything from pot to acid while functioning as an apparent hard core Scientologist.
I started smoking pot towards the end of my involvement in the cult though it was very occasional.
I'll probably take pot up again once it's legalized.
But it's so hard to post on the subject when some people, the very types that I left Scientology to get away from, just can't grasp concepts unless you spoon feed them.
Who has that kind of time or patience?
I see some are very much stuck in the caked on mud from way too many years in.
Huh? Waa?
Would you look it up for me???
 

hummingbird

Patron with Honors
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

That's in physical bodies, doll bodies are different.

"DOLL bodies"? Now there's a phrase I haven't heard in decades. I hope GL that you were posting with tongue firmly in cheek.

:ohmy:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

I am currently casting a documentary about addiction and scientology. If you or your family member left Scientology and is now currently addicted to drugs and/or alcohol, please email me at [email protected].

Thanks
Bryan

Hi, "Bryan," people do not leave Scientology because of "unhandled drugs," and absence of Scientology does not lead to drug use. Those are Scientology propaganda lines.

Scientology likes to identify itself with being "drug free," and it has a number of front groups that promote themselves as being "anti-drug."

antidrug_intro_secular_en.jpg

Many people have been harmed by Scientology, and by its front groups, including its "anti-drug" front groups.

People have also been harmed - and some have died - by Scientology substituting itself for psychiatric assistance, going so far as to follow L. Ron Hubbard's instructions for involuntarily imprisoning others behind the walls of its many tax exempt properties.

By the way, Scientology obtained its tax exemption by fraud, harassment, and black mail, and these three items remain key components of Scientology.

Scientology likes to "collect data" on people. Its primary means of collecting data - aside from the use of Private Investigators - is through "counseling," sometimes called "auditing." Scientology provides "counseling" through its so called "churches," and sometimes through its front groups.

All information collected by Scientology is available for use to Scientology's advantage, for purposes of manipulation, and for "black PR," "black propaganda," and as blackmail.

Do your 'documentary" on these topics and someone might take you seriously.




__________




As most know, the first "druggie" in Scientology was its founder. (Quoted posts from ESMB in Fire Brick .)


Here's a partial collection of information on Hubbard's drug and alcohol outlook and use.

From 'Terra Incognita: The Mind':

"The best stimulant is Benzedrine. In its absence an overdose of coffee will do."

Benzedrine_inhaler_for_wiki_article.jpg



__________​


From 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (1950):

"Opium is less harmful [than alcohol], marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect..."


_________​


From a 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lectures (1952):

Lecture 27: "The body - He has never used it. He's taken care of it."

Lecture 33: "There isn't any reason it shouldn't drink all the liquor it can hold... be perfectly free to use the body in any way he chooses."


__________​


Ron Jr. from 'Messiah or Madman?' (concerning the 1950s):

"My whole life I've always marveled at his capacity to consume alcohol and remain upright and coherent. A fifth of Myers dark run was like two aspirin to dad...

"He [Hubbard Sr.] would sit at his typewriter late at night and boost up on drugs and hit way at the top, and just write like crazy. He could type 97 words a minute with four fingers. That was the maximum the old IBM electric typewriter would go. When he got into one of these drugs trips, he'd write until the body just collapsed.

"That's the way he worked. Usually what he had written in a burst would then be allowed to trickle out to the public, the classes he taught. It just wouldn't show up right away."


__________​


Hubbard's bottle a night at St. Hill, and how it was discreetly discarded the next morning: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=72911&postcount=11


_________​


From 'Keeping Scientology Working' (1965):

"We will not speculate here on... how I came to rise above the bank."


A few excerpts from the John McMaster interview in the book, 'Messiah or Madman?' (McMaster was "the first real Clear"):

"...In all the years of working for him I found that he absolutely despised people for being Scientologists."

McMaster commented on an encounter with Hubbard at St. Hill, when he urgently needed to relay a message:

"Well, it was about mid day. He was just getting up. He was a night owl. Anyway, I got up there and he was in his bathroom, which was attached to his bedroom. He came out and I was surprised at the color of his body. It was grey. He came out nude.

"And there on the table was one of those enormous bottles of Gin."

On the Apollo, McMaster witnessed Hubbard's drug supply, "It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!"


_________​


From Aleister Crowley's 'The Book of the Law':

"We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit; let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of Kings: stamp down the wretched and the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.

"...I am the snake that giveth knowledge and delight, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs. They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self...

"...The Kings of Earth shall be the Kings forever: the slaves shall serve.

"Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; and destroy them utterly."


The 'Law of Thelema' is "Do What Thou Wilt." For Crowleyites, its "Bible" is 'The Book of The Law'. http://www.lawbright.com/logdos/crow.jpg


From one of Jack Parsons' letters to Aleister Crowley, re. Hubbard: "He [Hubbard] is the most Thelemic person I have ever met..."


And from Jack Parsons, Hubbard's "Magic(k)al partner" for a time in 1946. Parsons wrote this poem, which appeared in 1943, in the 'Oriflamme' Journal of the O.T.O:

"I hight Don Quixote, I live on Peyote, Marijuana,
"Morphine and Cocaine,
"I never know sadness, but only a madness,
"That burns in the heart and the brain.
"I see each charwoman, ecstatic, inhuman, angelic, demonic, divine.
"Each wagon a dragon, each beer mug a flagon
"That burns with ambrosial wine."


_________​


Some more links re. alcohol and drugs (Rum, Pinks and Grays, etc.):

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/bts-or-dts.txt


____________​


Excerpts from a post from Challenge from 2009:

LRH used drugs. He did not enjoy Marijuana. He said it gave him bad breath... He preferred chemicals. All kinds, mixed up together. That includes prescription meds. I don't know their names. Tuinal might be one, or it could have been 2-in-all. Either way, it was Cocaine and Heroin mixed together.

Cocaine was in use. Peyote. Lsd. Mr Hubbard preferred Amphetamines, such as Dexedrine and Benzedrine...



From Phenomanon a.k.a. Challenge from January 2014:

I have told you before...maybe on ARS when I was posting as Ladayla...that LRH got the idea of Exteriorization from Tom Melody in @ 1951.
They were smoking pot, and Tom said that Wow! He was really out of his head. Lrh said, really? you can do that? and the idea of Exterior was born.



________________​



DartSmohen, February 2008:

I guess it is time to put some truth out about OT3.

I was there when Hubbard was winding up his research (Las Palmas 67.)

We were the Sea Project, long before the Sea Org was created.

You have to understand the level of drugs Hubbard was on at the time. This was well after his cocaine and Phenobarbitone stuff of the 50's. He was heavily into barbituates, codene etc. He had a shore base called "Estrella", down the coast. I saw his pharmecutical store there, it was huge.

The original 3 materials were handwritten and photocopied backwards, so you had to hold them to a mirror to read them. I read them all when I was Chief of Advanced Courses on the ship. It was just like a 1050's science fiction story.

We had our first inkling of what was coming before we set sail fom the UK in April/May 67. Hubbard put out a confidential SP declare on one of our staff, John Laurence (former chaplain at St Hill). In it he stated that John was no longer the person we thought he was, having been taken over by another or other beings.

In Las Palmas Hubbard used to talk quite openly about his "research". He used to say that the main street in Gran Canaria was exactly like it was 75 million years ago, exact in every detail. He got some really funny looks from several members of the crew. I don't think there was more than a couple of members who bought into the story. In order to satisfy the rest of us he added a line about Loyal Officers. This was a clever move as it allowed us to simply say that we never got the implant as we were away at the time.

Outside the dockyard there was a church. On Feast Days (there were many) an evening service took place. It was dark and there was always a small crowd.

First there was a candle lit procession, followed by a loud bang, then a series of flashing lights, another procession came out from the church, led by men carrying poles on which figures of cherubs were mounted. Following this came a replica of the ark of the covenant, with a winged chariot on it. The procession traversed around the forecourt.All the time preyers were being said, led by a priest in long robes. Then firecrackers went off and the candles were extinguished, leaving the place in darkness as the processions re-entered the church.

Hubbard used to say that this was a replica of Inc 1. I wonder where he got the idea of Inc 1 from?

It is up to each person to decide for themselves if they wish to subscribe to the theory and story of OT3. I just thought that a bit of background info might help you to align your thoughts.

In case you are wondering whether any of this is true or not, ask Alan. He was there too



From Alan Walter, February 2008:

It is true!

The write up that is of Darth! :)



Addendum: Alan Walter and Darth knew Hubbard at St. Hill in England, and were students on the first Class VIII course in 1968. Challenge, a.k.a. Phenomanon, became involved with Scientology in the early 1950s, and even smoked a joint with Hubbard, in Phoenix, in 1953.

There is much more on Hubbard's drug use, including evidence revealed during Armstrong vs Church of Scientology, but this is a pretty good sampling.

Hubbard became especially concerned with drugs in 1968, when he decided that drugs and reduced income were related. Soon thereafter, Pamela Kemp, another old time Scientologist, presented Hubbard with her idea of a "Dianetic Drug Rundown." Conveniently, this Drug Rundown provided an easy means for every new Scientologist (it was one of the first actions done) to give a list of all illegal drugs used to the blackmail-collecting Scientology operation.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

Oh, please, will someone with knowledge of medicine please provide a simple, understandable explanation of how toxins are metabolized in the human body?

Nothing " too clinical" - just a simple explanation of long known physiologywill do.

Google is your friend. "How toxins are metabolized in the human body?"
produces many websites. Below is wikipedia's answer. There are others
which are more difficult to fully get without lots of word clearing etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

Am addicted to books and high quality chocolate. Will that do? :drool:

[video=youtube;XcATvu5f9vE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcATvu5f9vE[/video]
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio


What I can say with certainty is that a detox program restored my liver from borderline cirrhosis to entirely normal according to lab results and ultrasound, much to the amazement of my gastroenterologist who wants me to write a book on how I did it, what worked and what didn't.
These self proclaimed "Karmac The Magnificent", like Hubbard, debunkers that make $11 an hour to sit at a computer and claim to have all of the answers on every subject they piss upon don't have all the answers.
 

RandomCat

Patron with Honors
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

What I can say with certainty is that a detox program restored my liver from borderline cirrhosis to entirely normal according to lab results and ultrasound, much to the amazement of my gastroenterologist who wants me to write a book on how I did it, what worked and what didn't.
These self proclaimed "Karmac The Magnificent", like Hubbard, debunkers that make $11 an hour to sit at a computer and claim to have all of the answers on every subject they piss upon don't have all the answers.
What toxin was causing your borderline cirrhosis?
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

What toxin was causing your borderline cirrhosis?

In my 20's I worked a job that exposed me to paints, solvents, welding smoke and asbestos.
In my 30's I was exposed to heavy diesel exhaust as well as living in a house with urea formaldehyde particle board, it smelled like cat piss in there.
Then in my 40's I developed a cocaine addiction followed by an alcohol addiction when I used that as a substitute for cocaine that I was trying to quit.
From my early 30's to 40 I smoked cigars and cigarettes like a moron, just flirting with my own mortality.
So I had a heavy toxin load to get out.
I spent months on the internet reading whatever I could about successful detox and applied it religiously until my liver shrank to its original size and the fatty coating disappeared while my enzyme count fell to normal.
So as you can see, I was a mess and it took real work to bring myself back to the land of the living but I owe it all to the detoxing I've been referring to as well as heavy nutritional therapy utilizing amino acids like glutamine, taurine and especially NAC cysteine which raises the glutamine level in your body. Glutamine is the key to successful detoxing I've read and found to be true.
So as you can see I owe my return to health to all of this and like to help others do the same if they need it and want it.
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

I don't believe that people who left scientology developed addictions but they were already there to begin with. What is an addiction if not relief from a ruin? Scn zeros in and takes advantage of a person's ruin.

I saw public and staff addicted to drugs, porn/sex, gambling, etc. It was temporarily suppressed by using policy, ethic actions or threats to stop it. All that did was make the addictions go dormant OR temporarily replaced with something else, mainly scn. Public and staff had recurring problems over the decades and reverted after handlings. The reg or EO would them say stuff like "Oh, s/he needs FPRD" if they could not make the person stop their addiction.

So, it doesn't appear fair to say leaving scn creates an addiction.
 

Chris Shelton

Patron with Honors
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

I'm just going to quietly put this here and slowly back away.

[video=youtube;CuXfe77Qb7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuXfe77Qb7g[/video]
 

RandomCat

Patron with Honors
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

(My tablet computer is acting up!!)
 

RandomCat

Patron with Honors
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

P
In my 20's I worked a job that exposed me to paints, solvents, welding smoke and asbestos. &lt;br&gt;<br>
In my 30's I was exposed to heavy diesel exhaust as well as living in a house with urea formaldehyde particle board, it smelled like cat piss in there. &lt;br&gt;<br>
Then in my 40's I developed a cocaine addiction followed by an alcohol addiction when I used that as a substitute for cocaine that I was trying to quit. &lt;br&gt;<br>
From my early 30's to 40 I smoked cigars and cigarettes like a moron, just flirting with my own mortality. &lt;br&gt;<br>
So I had a heavy toxin load to get out. &lt;br&gt;<br>
I spent months on the internet reading whatever I could about successful detox and applied it religiously until my liver shrank to its original size and the fatty coating disappeared while my enzyme count fell to normal. &lt;br&gt;<br>
So as you can see, I was a mess and it took real work to bring myself back to the land of the living but I owe it all to the detoxing I've been referring to as well as heavy nutritional therapy utilizing amino acids like glutamine, taurine and especially NAC cysteine which raises the glutamine level in your body. Glutamine is the key to successful detoxing I've read and found to be true. &lt;br&gt;<br>
So as you can see I owe my return to health to all of this and like to help others do the same if they need it and want it.
Cocaine and alcohol can cause liver damage leading to cirrhosis. Alcohol being especially notorious for this. But neither stay in your system for long so no detoxing needed for those, just abstinence to prevent further damage.
The liver can heal itself if the damage is not to bad.

For 14 years I drank around 1.5 pints of liquor each night.
In my mid-30s I quit completely, and haven't had a drink now for many years. About a year after I quit I had some blood work done and my ALT and AST levels were elevated, a few years after that the levels returned to normal... No detox needed (Just no alcohol!)

You can draw a comparison to lung damage and liver damage: If you smoke too much for too long you can get emphysema/lung damage. If you quit smoking before the damage is significant you might not end up with this disease. If you've quit later, after acquiring emphysema, you will still have emphysema after you quit. But the condition will only worsen the longer you smoke (from a mild to a severe case). No need to detox from smoking... Just stop doing it .
smile.png

The same with cirrhosis, once you've put enough strain (damage) on the liver, the cirrhosis is not going to go away (the damage is done); but the sooner you quit exposing it to alcohol(etc) the more likely your outcome will be better.
 
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TrevAnon

Big List researcher
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

Looks like Bryan/David/whatever by now has done his [STRIKE]12 steps[/STRIKE] A-E. :biggrin:
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
Re: Looking for people who have left scientology and are now struggling with addictio

What I can say with certainty is that a detox program restored my liver from borderline cirrhosis to entirely normal according to lab results and ultrasound, much to the amazement of my gastroenterologist who wants me to write a book on how I did it, what worked and what didn't.
These self proclaimed "Karmac The Magnificent", like Hubbard, debunkers that make $11 an hour to sit at a computer and claim to have all of the answers on every subject they piss upon don't have all the answers.

Yep, a normally healthy persons liver will return to normal when they stop drinking.
 
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