Loss and Anger

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
I want to write about this and I don't know where else to spew forth. I am really hoping to get support here. Advice will work too. However, I will tell you, I have been in therapy for almost 10 years, plus I had at least a year of specialized one-on-one therapy with a cult specialist and did monthly group therapy with other ex-cult members of varying groups--this was before the 10 years of regular therapy. I also have psychiatrist. None of these things have worked on what I'm about to address. Advice may not work on me.

Loss and Anger.

When I left Scientology, I didn't just lose my beliefs and my mind. I lost practically everyone I knew and loved. It is, and has been profound. It didn't happen all at once. Over the last 18 years, they've all disconnected, one by one in various ways--some have been way more upsetting than others.

I also moved about 40 miles away from my previous residence for the first eight years once I left. This was both good and bad. I was truly isolated. I had no one. No friends, no family. When I finally began to make new "friends," no one knew I was ever in Scientology. So no one really knew me at all. I don't make a friend easily. I've never been able to maintain a relationship in or out of the cult. I have one: my partner of 20 years. If it wasn't for him, I would have been long dead by now.

The loss of my friends haunt me. I have NOT recovered. I am still very very sad. I can't get over it!

Likewise, I am so angry. I hold grudges now. Mostly on the people that burned me--that were once my friends, then suddenly left me in the cold. I am extremely angry with those that have left Scientology (I'm happy they have found their way out), but they've never come to me. Crickets. These are a few that treated me so badly when they disconnected and said I was an "SP," or worse, a degraded being who pulled in my illness. That really did a number on me. I still wonder if they were right. Maybe I'm disabled because I deserve to be. They even have laughed at me. It makes me want to cry, or punch them in the face. Both!

So these are just feelings. I am not going to punch or harm anyone. This is a disclaimer because, you know, lawyers.

Thanks for listening. ;)

Am I the only one like this?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I don't know if you are alone in this or not but speaking for myself I'll just say that I don't feel the way you do at all. I feel the exact opposite way, I was deliriously happy when I escaped the last of the synthetic cult 'friendships' and have never wanted contact with a single one of them since the day I got out.

I know the feel of real friendship and I didn't feel it once in the cult, possibly because none of us could truly be ourselves.

It sounds as if you have been severely abused though and I imagine that would hurt anyone (or make them angry) especially as you age and start to weigh your life up.

I doubt you will ever get over it if you haven't by now so perhaps you could just accept that, and stop trying to fix it?


:heartflower:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I had such feelings when I left and it took long to recover. But since I was busy and made a new life with new friends I didn't had such a loss . Actually it was the treason that hit me hard.

I'd say that you seem quite realistic about your strugglings and it's the first step toward Recovery.

Long time therapy IMO is no good as it becomes a sort of constant stirring.

A short CBT may help you in retraining your mind and behavior; a trained EMDR psychologist could probably help you to heal the part that still hurt you. What I feel is that you are still hurt...Amirite??

When you heal that, then you can learn to rebuilt self esteem, trust, confidence and cognitivo behavioral short therapy should help.

Don't go for long time...it's only draining your money and good for the therapist.
Otherwise, you can ask help with a social worker that is also a therapist and the SW will help you to regain confidence and empowerment.

Good luck.
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
@EZ Linus

Heya EZ Linus,

I know what you mean. It's a lot easier for the socially outgoing types to make friends and a lot more difficult for those of us who tend to be more introverted.

I don't have any great words of wisdom for you. If it's any consolation, though, it's totally okay and not the least bit irresponsible to leave the past in the past. It might be messy with a lot of loose ends but then, so is life. You sound like you have some scars, well, so be it. It's what gives a person character and makes you who you are. You're just fine the way you are. Made mistakes? Trusted the wrong people? Lost a lot of years? Ah well.

Just gotta say fuck it sometimes and quit scratching that itch and give it a good slap instead. If you have to start over, then you have the right to leave the past behind you and start clean. Fuck it.
 

Wilbur

Patron Meritorious
@EZ Linus

I was kinda appalled to read that you were laughed at by church members for being disabled. But what I take from that is that the people involved are not enlightened at all. Even according to the CoS's own doctrine, I can see no warrant for laughing at someone and calling them a DB (unless your aim is to cave them in). That's not going to help the person, even according to the church's own doctrine.

My aim in this post is not to provide you with a solution - it's mainly to say that I think it shows something about the state of the church, the type of people it keeps in its fold now, and what it is teaching them. However, my reaction to what you said, not being personally involved in your situation myself, was to feel sorry for the people who said and did that, along the lines of "forgive them, father, for they know not what they say". I think that kicking people when they are down like that mainly damages the person doing the kicking, and it shows a short-sightedness on their part. Scientologists' bodies die just like anybody elses. So on their own logic, they are presumably ALL DBs.

It probably doesn't help you much Linuz, but from MY perspective I see no reason to hate them. I just don't think they themselves are in good condition. Enlightened people feel compassion towards those around them - they don't see everyone as DBs to be mocked and laughed at. At least, that's what I can surmise from the times when I have felt myself to be spiritually uplifted. In those times, I feel more love and compassion for others, not less.
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
I went to therapy today. (Sorry lotus--LOL) and I am feeling good about leaning towards the self-acceptance type advice that Shelia and ITUIWT have given to me. Therapy has helped me immensely in many other areas of my life, and if you guys knew how far I've come, you'd know. But I'm focusing on something pretty specific here regarding the relationships I had with Scnists in the years I was a cult member.

I by no means hate anyone (other than myself) and never did, but I have been angry and hurt (sad) about things. It comes up every so often and I feel like I'm right back opening the wound again. If I was able to cut all the people off in one fell swoop 18 years ago, I think kit would have been easier, but it's been decades of "one at a time," even as recently as a couple weeks ago. I wrote this post in the first place because I found out some new ex-scnists friends I made are going to a gathering that will include "still-ins" of whom used to be my close friends, but then treated me very badly on my way out. It's just so frustrating. I had no one to talk about it with, so I came here and made this post.

Wilbur, yes, they know not what they do. I realize this. And it's not how the church is now. This is many years back. This is the culture I left behind and I do not miss it in any way. I am not exactly missing anyone. If they think I'm PTS trash, they can fuck themselves. I know I have always been there for them. I was a great friend and I think they know I still love them, I just can't be friends with people that dis me anymore. I guess I feel like I have to hold onto that anger in order to continue to keep myself protected? I'm guessing. And I am not sad every moment. Just when it gets stirred up again and again. Another person pops up who has heard about me speaking out, or about my disability, or something I posted about mental illness awareness, and they engage with me and all hell breaks loose.

I also don't think most Scientologists see that they are kicking people when they're down. They don't have a connection to their human emotions to realize this. TRs have stripped them from connecting to feelings of empathy and compassion. This was one of the things that got me started stepping away. The hypocrisy and lack of camaraderie.

You tell a SCNist friend that your parent died and they don't get why you're still sad after a month. A month! That's only four weeks. "They dropped their body--no biggie!" You tell them you've been diagnosed with an incurable illness: "You're PTS. You pulled it in. Write up your overts." They talk among themselves, "Look how fat she's getting, her first Dynamic is so fucked up. Someone should help her handle it." Must always be skinny, look perfect, because young girls can be awful in any community. No one is "enlightened." You feel sad? You're being a "victim," even if you have been a victim! God forbid you tell anyone though. If something really terrible happens to you, do not tell anyone in Scientology. All this is kicking a person when they are down, but this IS the culture. It was rare when I found people I could truly trust and open myself to: goodhearted people I could see and share warmth with. But even some of those turned cold. It was shocking.

I should disclose that I came into Scn very young (12), and I'd already been very abused. I didn't have parents in. I ran from my parents and into Scn, so my Scn friends were all I had.

I just want to say, thank you, you guys for listening and having this conversation with me. I really appreciate it.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I don't want to hassle you EZ but er ... when is that book you have been promising us coming out?

:brow:


I always had the feeling (when you mentioned it in the past) that it was very important to you and by making it available you were going to banish quite a few ghosts all at once, maybe that time is soon?
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
ITYIWT,

Regarding the book: yes, some of these "friends" are dropping out because they've heard about me publishing the book. I wasn't going to make it so much about Scientology, but now half the book is about Scientology--because I was indoctrinated very young despite official membership, and it took many years to recover from the mind trip of being in.

I've managed to keep a number of friends though. I flew UTR for the first decade I was out. Then a rumor came out about me that I spoke out badly about the Church, but the rumor wasn't exactly true. I lost some people even then. When I started writing the book (10 years ago), I told a few scn friends and I thought they would make their decision about me then, but honestly, I was wishy-washy about what sort of book I'd be writing. I didn't think it was going to be so scathing. I thought it would be a lot more humorous.

But over the 10 years, I have changed my tune, immensely. I rewrote the whole thing last year. After I consulted with lawyers and told a couple people I was done with the manuscript and lawyers were looking it over, people began acting oddly (of course). Then I started asking some for permission to use certain scenes where they'd maybe feel like I was invading their privacy, most of it was public knowledge, but it is polite to ask, and, I also wanted them to know what was coming. I also wanted the permission, and if I didn't get it, I wouldn't use it. And so I didn't. I even let people read their pages. But none of it mattered. There is absolutely no pleasing people no matter how much you try, and I have tried my whole life to the detriment of myself.

Yes, the book is coming out soon. I do believe on the day it goes on sale and there's no looking back...I think, I hope, my entire world will change, and for once I will finally see myself for the person I truly am: vulnerable, but brave, and very very strong.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I await your book with interest and a genuine hope that it gives you some breathing space from which you will truly recognise yourself as the person you have become.

It's normal to feel a bit tense and nervous about something this important, I'd be a cot-case, lol ... and (trite as it undoubtedly sounds) remembering to breathe and take extra care of yourself is vital (also, I hope you won't mind me suggesting that you prepare yourself for the crash that will probably occur after the initial high of the book release starts to wear off, another very normal response that could take you by surprise if you are not ready for it).

;)
 

JustSheila

Crusader
There is absolutely no pleasing people no matter how much you try, and I have tried my whole life to the detriment of myself.

Yes, the book is coming out soon. I do believe on the day it goes on sale and there's no looking back...I think, I hope, my entire world will change, and for once I will finally see myself for the person I truly am: vulnerable, but brave, and very very strong.
Yeh, you can't second-guess people all the time and you'll drive yourself nuts trying. Ever notice that people-pleasers never really please anyone, especially not themselves? :giggle: There's people that the more you try to please them, the more they demand and maybe it's human nature, idk, but people tend to think there's something wrong with a situation if you keep asking them to look for fault in it and then they get all suspicious and think then there MUST be something wrong with it! :eyeroll: It's endless. You'll never get anywhere that way. :shrug:

Sometimes I work for elderly people who do nothing but demand, demand demand like a two-year old every few minutes if I don't take control of the situation. Complain, complain, complain, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Shifting their attention to get their priorities straight and their minds in a positive way is a bit of an art form. It works a helluva lot better than trying to please them by doing whatever they ask whenever they ask as soon as they ask (when they're unreasonable like that.) I don't put up with bullshit, but they love me to bits for keeping them focused in the right direction.

Forget tone scale. The thing is, where you put someone's attention is where their attention goes. (That goes for you, too, btw. I have to remind myself of that once in a while, too.)

Have a great day and week! I hope you're enjoying beautiful Spring weather like I am right now. It's downright heavenly in Tennessee today! :cloud9:
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Hi, Linus,

Not to present another cult at all but I read 3 books by David R Hawkins...the 1st 3 in Power vs Force series.

Helped tremendously with exiting Scientology and other stuff.

I don't belong to any group, do any courses or tapes or daily routines. Just read 3 books.

You can get 'em in a used store, eBay, Amazon, library, maybe read 'em in a Barnes and Noble.

I bet there's pdfs.

He promotes applied kinesiology which is hocus pocus but the concepts are great for shedding Scientology.
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
I await your book with interest and a genuine hope that it gives you some breathing space from which you will truly recognise yourself as the person you have become.

It's normal to feel a bit tense and nervous about something this important, I'd be a cot-case, lol ... and (trite as it undoubtedly sounds) remembering to breathe and take extra care of yourself is vital (also, I hope you won't mind me suggesting that you prepare yourself for the crash that will probably occur after the initial high of the book release starts to wear off, another very normal response that could take you by surprise if you are not ready for it).

;)
Thank you.

Yes, I'll be a case alright. LOL! But I am bracing myself for a kind of postpartum of this whole build-up as well. Thanks for that reminder, and for your interest in my book.

:hug:
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
Yeh, you can't second-guess people all the time and you'll drive yourself nuts trying. Ever notice that people-pleasers never really please anyone, especially not themselves? :giggle: There's people that the more you try to please them, the more they demand and maybe it's human nature, idk, but people tend to think there's something wrong with a situation if you keep asking them to look for fault in it and then they get all suspicious and think then there MUST be something wrong with it! :eyeroll: It's endless. You'll never get anywhere that way. :shrug:

Sometimes I work for elderly people who do nothing but demand, demand demand like a two-year old every few minutes if I don't take control of the situation. Complain, complain, complain, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Shifting their attention to get their priorities straight and their minds in a positive way is a bit of an art form. It works a helluva lot better than trying to please them by doing whatever they ask whenever they ask as soon as they ask (when they're unreasonable like that.) I don't put up with bullshit, but they love me to bits for keeping them focused in the right direction.

Forget tone scale. The thing is, where you put someone's attention is where their attention goes. (That goes for you, too, btw. I have to remind myself of that once in a while, too.)

Have a great day and week! I hope you're enjoying beautiful Spring weather like I am right now. It's downright heavenly in Tennessee today! :cloud9:
Very wise words! :) Thank you for every morsel. I always need reminding of these things. It really does keep me going. I am glad I posted this thread. What would I do without you?

Talk about old people, I too am getting too old for this. LOL! I have your words in my mind and will try to crazy glue them onto my brain like a BT! Hahaha.

Seriously though, thank you.:heartflower:
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Very wise words! :) Thank you for every morsel. I always need reminding of these things. It really does keep me going. I am glad I posted this thread. What would I do without you?

Talk about old people, I too am getting too old for this. LOL! I have your words in my mind and will try to crazy glue them onto my brain like a BT! Hahaha.

Seriously though, thank you.:heartflower:
:bighug: :heartflower:
YOU'RE WELCOME! I'm so glad to hear it helped. Hugs!

Here's a real life example:

Cranky elderly: "I want you to do this, this and this. Oh, can you do that, too? Stop over there and do that. I'd help you if I could but my back is sore today. What's that on the floor? Can you pick that up? Oh, I just dropped that, too. Can you get it? I don't feel like eating that. Can you make me something else?"

Me: "Let's get a heating pad on your back, first, and maybe you should take a Tylenol. Don't worry about the stuff on the floor. Just throw everything down and I'll get it all at once, later (joking, but not completely).

(1/2 hour later) Feeling better? Ready to eat now?

(1 hour later) We need to get your leg in shape so you can have a nice visit with your daughter next week. Let's get that leg brace on and do some strengthening exercises.

No Longer Cranky Elderly: I walked all the way around the house twice! I'm getting stronger! Let's go out to lunch. :biggrin:

....

There always has to be a future goal and a bigger picture, or we get can lost in negativity and the mundane details.

:bighug:
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
Hi, Linus,

Not to present another cult at all but I read 3 books by David R Hawkins...the 1st 3 in Power vs Force series.

Helped tremendously with exiting Scientology and other stuff.

I don't belong to any group, do any courses or tapes or daily routines. Just read 3 books.

You can get 'em in a used store, eBay, Amazon, library, maybe read 'em in a Barnes and Noble.

I bet there's pdfs.

He promotes applied kinesiology which is hocus pocus but the concepts are great for shedding Scientology.
Thanks guanoloco. I appreciate the recommendation and will check out Hawkins (David, R), with skepticism though. The kinesiology you mention gives me a lot of pause and the book's title a strange and different meaning to me already, but I'm still willing to take a look. Just letting you know, I already have that bias.

I really don't feel confused by cults anymore. I could always use polishing up and am interested in reading more and more (I will always be a life-long reader and student of life), but after I left Scientology, I spend a good 10 years with my face inside of books by dozens upon dozens authors, if not a hundred, reading about psychology, social behavior, combat strategies, you name it--if it had anything to do with persuasion of mind, I was on it. Scientology ideals are not part of my belief system at all anymore, I'm happy to say.
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
I was going to tag this at the end of my last reply, but it isn't directed at anyone in particular; more like a note to self:

Naturally, there will always be bad habits that are hard to break though. Let's say particularly with relationships. Relationships and resilience. Knowing why I am the way I am is a good first step I guess. I've had the therapy to be able to see this, and I'm glad for that. Now it's a matter of not making the same mistakes over and over and that is the hardest part. We do what's familiar, or I do. I'm lazy when it comes to changing my behavior. Making huge change as a person is not always entirely possible, or easy. In some cases, it's not possible at all. But I've changed a lot more than I think many people can usually change and that's despite everything that's been stacked against me (I'm not talking about just the cult). I guess it takes as long as it takes to get it right. If it takes until I'm 95, so be it. It's already little too late. I have at least accepted that. :)
 

JustSheila

Crusader
I was going to tag this at the end of my last reply, but it isn't directed at anyone in particular; more like a note to self:

Naturally, there will always be bad habits that are hard to break though. Let's say particularly with relationships. Relationships and resilience. Knowing why I am the way I am is a good first step I guess. I've had the therapy to be able to see this, and I'm glad for that. Now it's a matter of not making the same mistakes over and over and that is the hardest part. We do what's familiar, or I do. I'm lazy when it comes to changing my behavior. Making huge change as a person is not always entirely possible, or easy. In some cases, it's not possible at all. But I've changed a lot more than I think many people can usually change and that's despite everything that's been stacked against me (I'm not talking about just the cult). I guess it takes as long as it takes to get it right. If it takes until I'm 95, so be it. It's already little too late. I have at least accepted that. :)
Awesome. :hug:

The easiest way to get a new perspective and think differently is to do something - anything - different than usual. It's easier than trying to change your perspective by thinking about things. Go to the movies, take a walk, try a new exercise routine, strike up a chat with a stranger... there are all sorts of things that you can do that are different. Have a great day. :)

radiant-rider-waite-02361.jpg


Hanged Man Tarot Story
The Fool settles beneath a tree, intent on finding his spiritual self. There he stays for nine days, without eating, barely moving. People pass by him, animals, clouds, the wind, the rain, the stars, sun and moon. On the ninth day, with no conscious thought of why, he climbs the tree and dangles from a branch upside down like a child. For a moment, he surrenders all that he is, wants, knows or cares about. Coins fall from his pockets and as he gazes down on them - seeing them not as money but only as round bits of metal.

It seems to him that his perspective of the world has completely changed, as if his inverted position has allowed him to dangle between the mundane world and the spiritual world, able to see both. It is a dazzling moment, dreamlike yet crystal clear.


Timeless as this moment of clarity seems, he realizes that it will not last. Very soon, he must right himself, but when he does, things will be different. He will have to act on what he's learned.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn/meanings/hanged_man.shtml
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Yeh, you can't second-guess people all the time and you'll drive yourself nuts trying. Ever notice that people-pleasers never really please anyone, especially not themselves? :giggle: There's people that the more you try to please them, the more they demand and maybe it's human nature, idk, but people tend to think there's something wrong with a situation if you keep asking them to look for fault in it and then they get all suspicious and think then there MUST be something wrong with it! :eyeroll: It's endless. You'll never get anywhere that way. :shrug:

Sometimes I work for elderly people who do nothing but demand, demand demand like a two-year old every few minutes if I don't take control of the situation. Complain, complain, complain, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Shifting their attention to get their priorities straight and their minds in a positive way is a bit of an art form. It works a helluva lot better than trying to please them by doing whatever they ask whenever they ask as soon as they ask (when they're unreasonable like that.) I don't put up with bullshit, but they love me to bits for keeping them focused in the right direction.

Forget tone scale. The thing is, where you put someone's attention is where their attention goes. (That goes for you, too, btw. I have to remind myself of that once in a while, too.)

Have a great day and week! I hope you're enjoying beautiful Spring weather like I am right now. It's downright heavenly in Tennessee today! :cloud9:

It's all right now, I learned my lesson well
You can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself

 
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