Louis Theroux' Scientology documentary to premiere

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
:) I'm fine with throwing away the line and all other self defeating references about Scientology being a "religion," but what's your point in then quoting Hitchens about how bad religion is?

Attributing the deceits and abuses of Scientology to "religion" misses the mark and, ultimately, helps Scientology.

I don't think anything will help scientology now ... it's screwed.

You and I may not like it but 'technically' scientology is (known as) a religion these days and getting too precious about what I'm calling a throw away line seems petty to me, he (Louis Theroux) didn't make this movie for us (exes) and apparently made sure that Marty didn't get to feel too comfortable perhaps to make that point clear to the real audience.

:confused2:

Whether we like it or not we (exes) are almost certainly viewed with as much disdain as current culties by the average person (I know that's harsh but I believe it's true) and that doesn't bother me at all, I'm just very happy watching the boot going into the cult with such regularity and ferocity by people who a few short years ago wouldn't have dared to look sideways at the cult.

:)
 

Jump

Operating teatime

I like the quote from the Anderson Inquiry in this regard:

...ultimately, that Scientology

"... is, in relation to its religious pretensions, no more than a sham."

With more publicity and interest, people will gradually realise the truth that it indeed a criminal enterprise designed by an avaricious psychopath.


 

Veda

Sponsor
I don't think anything will help scientology now ... it's screwed.

It may make you feel better to say that but it's not true. Scientology's net worth since Hubbard's death (which should have been its end) has multiplied many times. It's a multi billion dollar operation.

You and I may not like it but 'technically' scientology is (known as) a religion these days

Scientology encourages people to call it a religion and some people cooperate with that. Many do not. It's a kind of political correctness and, in the case of atheists, etc., a blind spot held in place by their atheist ideology.

Over all, the media are more prone to political correctness than others, but there are those in the media who don't comply with Scientology's wishes.

Usually, though, in a short news segment, it's not practical to explain corporate Scientology's use of religious cloaking, although I've seen it briefly and effectively summarized in a few seconds by some of the sharper news people.

Like it or not, complying with Scientology's wishes helps Scientology; and it's also being a participant in the spreading of a falsehood that empowers a hurtful organization.


and getting too precious about what I'm calling a throw away line seems petty to me, he (Louis Theroux) didn't make this movie for us (exes) and apparently made sure that Marty didn't get to feel too comfortable perhaps to make that point clear to the real audience.

:confused2:

I haven't seen the movie, so I'm not commenting on the movie. I have commented, a little, on other people's comments and few excerpts from the movie, etc.

Whether we like it or not we (exes) are almost certainly viewed with as much disdain as current culties by the average person (I know that's harsh but I believe it's true) and that doesn't bother me at all, I'm just very happy watching the boot going into the cult with such regularity and ferocity by people who a few short years ago wouldn't have dared to look sideways at the cult.

:)

That's an odd tangent to go off on. You sound as though you've seen the film.

Leonard Cohen is an ex Scientologist. Is he viewed with disdain by your hypothetical "average person"? I've no idea. Does the average person even know Scientology exists, or that Leonard Cohen ever existed?

71112200027517.jpg

Hi ITYIWT, we're average people. Can we come to your house tonight and party?
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
I don't feel people see me with disdain for being an ex.
Really for the first time ever, these last couple of years I've been able to open up, knowing that they have been exposed to enough information to understand a lot of what happens inside.

I no longer feel like the lone voice in the wilderness either, which is really nice.

I like this little moment in the sun.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Dear Victoria,

I have known very few people who would ever hold anyone in 'distain' for mistakes (joinings etc.), they have made in the past, including me, not many here.... hm, a few at wwp, no biggie though. I do have a few exceptions, but very few, and generally of people who refuse to move forward on their own, or try to save 'that little bit that worked' sort of thing, or try and gather company amidst the debris of their messed-up decisions. I guess it may be my version of 'pity'....
YMMV.

:cheers:

Ogs
 

Gib

Crusader
Really interesting interview with Louis where he explains what he feels about "cult" versus "religion" and also about his relationship with Marty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7WRI2qz2QQ

Oh my god. Here we go into the front group known as scientology being a religion or a cult. LOL

WTF.

Haven't these people like Louis, Lawrence Wright, Tony O, and a bunch of others, haven't these people seen or looked at the Hubbard Bridge to Total Freedom? NO

And haven't they looked at it from a critical thinker analysis POV? NO

And have they not questioned what each state of so called awareness is to bring about? NO

The whole point of scientology and earlier dianetics is to produce a clear and OT. That is the religion angle.

In the immortal words of Jason Beghe, show me a mother fuk'in clear.

So, WTF, these excellent people investigating scientology, need to go there, which is show me a clear and a OT?

Don't you think?

I hope to god that the media will eventually get on that bandwagon, which is show me a clear.

Shoot, look at any point on the chart Bridge to Total Freedom, like communications release, ability to talk to anybody about anything, well, how come DM is not willing to talk to anybody about anything?

How come Marty isn't willing to talk to anybody about anything?

Problems release, able to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish. Well, if all you Int Management people who have done those auditing actions, why didn't you make DM vanish? Same questions could be asked of Alan Walter, Roger B, all the early Apollo people.

Oh, the rhetorical questions are endless when you view what the religion of scientology is supposed to produce, which is a clear and then a OT, with all it's subproducts in between those so called states of awareness or existance (sublime).
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
It may make you feel better to say that but it's not true. Scientology's net worth since Hubbard's death (which should have been its end) has multiplied many times. It's a multi billion dollar operation.



Scientology encourages people to call it a religion and some people cooperate with that. Many do not. It's a kind of political correctness and, in the case of atheists, etc., a blind spot held in place by their atheist ideology.

Over all, the media are more prone to political correctness than others, but there are those in the media who don't comply with Scientology's wishes.

Usually, though, in a short news segment, it's not practical to explain corporate Scientology's use of religious cloaking, although I've seen it briefly and effectively summarized in a few seconds by some of the sharper news people.

Like it or not, complying with Scientology's wishes helps Scientology; and it's also being a participant in the spreading of a falsehood that empowers a hurtful organization.




I haven't seen the movie, so I'm not commenting on the movie. I have commented, a little, on other people's comments and few excerpts from the movie, etc.



That's an odd tangent to go off on. You sound as though you've seen the film.

Leonard Cohen is an ex Scientologist. Is he viewed with disdain by your hypothetical "average person"? I've no idea. Does the average person even know Scientology exists, or that Leonard Cohen ever existed?

71112200027517.jpg

Hi ITYIWT, we're average people. Can we come to your house tonight and party?


Practice on someone else Veda ... you'll get very little mileage out of me.





 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I don't feel people see me with disdain for being an ex.
Really for the first time ever, these last couple of years I've been able to open up, knowing that they have been exposed to enough information to understand a lot of what happens inside.

I no longer feel like the lone voice in the wilderness either, which is really nice.

I like this little moment in the sun.

Perhaps I should have put more time into what was just a quick post ... what I meant (in part) was that if we (exes) start whining about a throw away line (made by Louis Theroux about scio being much the same as any other religion) we could be seen to be every bit as wanky as current cult members by the actual audience the movie was made for (never ins) though I doubt many would say so publicly because I doubt that they really care.

I once heard a TV presenter say that exes seem to be "as bad as" current cult members though after reading ESMB for a TV segment (about 3 years ago).

I'm happy to be wrong ... I couldn't give a toss either way.

:)
 

Veda

Sponsor
religiou.gif

bigotflier.gif

271B8AE900000578-3015144-image-a-44_1427821159924.jpg


Oh my god. Here we go into the front group known as scientology being a religion or a cult. LOL

WTF.

-snip-

:)

As various people have noticed, over several decades, "the Church of Scientology" is, itself, essentially, a front group. It's the main front group for a for-profit psychological (mind game playing)-political (power seeking), slave labor utilizing, blackmail collecting, real estate investment corporation.

Scientology lies, and lies profusely. It engages in lies, distortion, and propaganda; yet we are expected to believe that, somehow, when it says it's truly a religion with an ecclesiastical leader, congregations, parishioners, scripture, and cathedrals, etc., that it is, somehow, telling the truth.

:yes:
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Snipped and emphasised by me.

As various people have noticed, over several decades, "the Church of Scientology" is, itself, essentially, a front group. It's the main front group for a for-profit psychological (mind game playing)-political (power seeking), slave labor utilizing, blackmail collecting, real estate investment corporation.

Scientology lies, and lies profusely. It engages in lies, distortion, and propaganda; yet we are expected to believe that, somehow, when it says it's truly a religion with an ecclesiastical leader, congregations, parishioners, scripture, and cathedrals, etc., that it is, somehow, telling the truth.

:yes:


We are not expected to believe any such thing Veda ... we are savvy to the ways of the cult and beyond reach and the cult knows that, but yes, of course they want the general public to believe that ... so what? The general public will make their own minds up and (if interested) do a little research at which point they will discover that it is a cult ... a "main front group for a for-profit psychological (mind game playing)-political (power seeking), slave labor utilizing, blackmail collecting, real estate investment corporation".

So all is well and things are progressing beautifully.


:yes:
 

Veda

Sponsor
That's fine, but don't tell me. Tell the people who, matter-of-factly, state that Scientology is telling the truth when it says it's a religious institution.




-snip-

So all is well and things are progressing beautifully.


:yes:

Glad to hear that. :)



[video=youtube;mlwfGh-SVXw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwfGh-SVXw[/video]​
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
religiou.gif

bigotflier.gif

271B8AE900000578-3015144-image-a-44_1427821159924.jpg




:)

As various people have noticed, over several decades, "the Church of Scientology" is, itself, essentially, a front group. It's the main front group for a for-profit psychological (mind game playing)-political (power seeking), slave labor utilizing, blackmail collecting, real estate investment corporation.

Scientology lies, and lies profusely. It engages in lies, distortion, and propaganda; yet we are expected to believe that, somehow, when it says it's truly a religion with an ecclesiastical leader, congregations, parishioners, scripture, and cathedrals, etc., that it is, somehow, telling the truth.

:yes:

I guess it all seems pretty serious to them, but to us the more they say.....

In short, they give wankers a good name.
 

Gib

Crusader
Snipped and emphasised by me.




We are not expected to believe any such thing Veda ... we are savvy to the ways of the cult and beyond reach and the cult knows that, but yes, of course they want the general public to believe that ... so what? The general public will make their own minds up and (if interested) do a little research at which point they will discover that it is a cult ... a "main front group for a for-profit psychological (mind game playing)-political (power seeking), slave labor utilizing, blackmail collecting, real estate investment corporation".

So all is well and things are progressing beautifully.


:yes:

By "we" you mean us ex members who really know, and have done the research. So while you may think Veda is talking to you since he replied to you, Veda is also talking to others.

If you think the general public will make up their own minds, well, lets consider the media is still calling it a "religion", so it's obvious they (the media and/or public) still don't know. WE here all know, you know.
 

Gib

Crusader
religiou.gif

bigotflier.gif

271B8AE900000578-3015144-image-a-44_1427821159924.jpg




:)

As various people have noticed, over several decades, "the Church of Scientology" is, itself, essentially, a front group. It's the main front group for a for-profit psychological (mind game playing)-political (power seeking), slave labor utilizing, blackmail collecting, real estate investment corporation.

Scientology lies, and lies profusely. It engages in lies, distortion, and propaganda; yet we are expected to believe that, somehow, when it says it's truly a religion with an ecclesiastical leader, congregations, parishioners, scripture, and cathedrals, etc., that it is, somehow, telling the truth.

:yes:

Veda, perfect examples of Character Assassination, or really Ad Hom attacks.

Hubbard even told Heinlein in a letter to him prior to the release of Dianetics as I tried to explain

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...sicientology&p=1058062&viewfull=1#post1058062

"Your request for the agentes techniques recalls me that this here area is shore revolutionary, pard. They just ain't ferget noth'in about Reconstruction. Down at the library, all the way back in the vault, are four full lengths shelves of books such as THE PSYCHOLOGY OF REVOLUTION, ERRORS MADE BY ROBESPIEPE, THE POWER OF THE RABBLE, LAWS GOVERNING LEVEE EN MASSE, HOME BOMB MANUFACTURE, ASSINATION AS A POLITICAL TECHNIGUE, etc. etc. for about three hundred big, authoritative volumes. And I never before seen a single one of them."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...sicientology&p=1058073&viewfull=1#post1058073

Hubbard spilled the beans to his friend Heinlein. Those 6 books Hubbard mentions are interesting and influenced him.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Each time it happened that I engaged in a chatting about $cientology, with people not knowing I had been a member,

each time they told me they don't consider it as a religion, they considered it as a scam..a fraud...it doesn't fit their conceptual thought of a traditional religion. They all know it's a money scam.

I guess medias too know as they use ''religion'' only in countries where it is given the ''religious'' status.
I often heard TV and radio media reports saying either ''$cientology cult'' or '' $cientology sect'' even if they use ''church of $cientology'' to identify the corporation or premises.

The perception may vary depending of countries.

I agree that some people have a negative perception about people involved within $cn in the past - It proved to be true when I disclosed my past involvement to a few people. :confused2:
 

Gib

Crusader
Each time it happened that I engaged in a chatting about $cientology, with people not knowing I had been a member,

each time they told me they don't consider it as a religion, they considered it as a scam..a fraud...it doesn't fit their conceptual thought of a traditional religion. They all know it's a money scam.

I guess medias too know as they use ''religion'' only in countries where it is given the ''religious'' status.
I often heard TV and radio media reports saying either ''$cientology cult'' or '' $cientology sect'' even if they use ''church of $cientology'' to identify the corporation or premises.

The perception may vary depending of countries.

I agree that some people have a negative perception about people involved within $cn in the past - It proved to be true when I disclosed my past involvement to a few people. :confused2:

thanks for your out of the USA observations, which I do not have. :thumbsup:

However, there was a rhetoric statement made by Hubbard that involved the West from the point of view of scientolgy, the "religion" having been araised from the West, meaning USA. I forget the exact statement by hubbard now.

But, I now see why he said that statement, it was because the USA is the most liberal of allowing "religious" freedom, and the USA laws are based on rhetoric, and the USA laws influence other Countries:

https://www.press.umich.edu/13992/rhetoric_of_law

http://www.alwd.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/pdf/jalwd-fall-2006-saunders.pdf

The other countries do not have the Law and Rhetoric as in the USA. Thus Hubbards statement.
 
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