Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Jquepublic, SallyDance.Anonymary, PTS,
I thank you kindly.
I am somewhat embarrassed by the title of the thread.

But I know you mean to just give me a sense of support and comfort.
Alexander was my ONLY child. I am past child bearing years.
I did try before my biological ticked away to have just one more...
Scientology Inc controls reproduction and as we all know, HATES families...
This 1 min clip was filmed before the death of Alexander.​
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vCamOCnz_Q&feature=relmfu
 

i'mglib

Patron with Honors
Karen, I love that you march to your own drummer. It seems you answer to your own brain and your own conscience, and I love that.

Shame on the church for stealing your son...and for stealing other sons and daughters. Shame on the people still in who look the other way while this happens.

You have been one of the few to cross all sorts of borders where sometimes it's hard to see the common ground. The common ground is mothers, parents, children, families. No one should break these bonds. :rose:
 

Sautez

Patron with Honors
Karen,

As Sallydannce said so well above: You are in my heart and my thoughts daily.
I want you to know I am here for you. We may never speak or meet but please know that I think of you as if you were family. And a spiritual family may not be able to cook you some soup or be there for much-needed great big hugs but a lot of love and support can still cross though.

For you and your son Alexander :heartflower:

There is nothing in this world like losing a child. Nothing. :bighug:
Sautez
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(And this is WHY)
 
Dear Face,
Thank you so very much.
The irony that I contributed to this "Church" is not lost on me.
35 years of solid contribution.
Where was my head at ?
How could I have violated my own moral code and gotten
caught up in those "RTC missions" and so on.....
Endless purges, endless internal warfare, endless threats, everyone blaming the last regime, the last Execs as evil criminals, it never ended......
Yet I stayed !
Did I have a brain aneurism ?
What was WRONG with me ?! :unsure::unsure::unsure:



This is probably a rude note on a thread called Love Bombs, but I sure would like to know.

I never understood the mindsets of org people.

Franchises nurtured independent thought.

I'd love to know what exact buttons were pushed on you to cause your obedience to the group.

It would also be illuminating to know what finally caused a break with the cult mindset.
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dear Face,
Thank you so very much.
The irony that I contributed to this "Church" is not lost on me.
35 years of solid contribution.
Where was my head at ?
How could I have violated my own moral code and gotten
caught up in those "RTC missions" and so on.....
Endless purges, endless internal warfare, endless threats, everyone blaming the last regime, the last Execs as evil criminals, it never ended......
Yet I stayed !
Did I have a brain aneurism ?
What was WRONG with me ?! :unsure::unsure::unsure:
You and I go way back.....the Apollo days.....
Remember that ridiculously "TOP SECRET" area of Telex traffic down the stairs from Aft Well Deck ?
Hush !Hush ! Hush !
Cowboy the ESMB poster worked there with Hana Eltringham...
One day the door was open and the ship lilted heavily and by accident
I had one foot in the door and I was given a Reality Adjustment on stepping into an Area of High High security !:eyeroll:

SURREAL.

Thank you Face.
All that water under the bridge.
Years and years of working for a pittance.
Loyal, dedicated, believing it all.
But when I woke up and posted truthful revelations,
within days Alexander was poisoned against me, Disconnection.
and the FBI told I trafficked in underage Children for sex.:angry::angry::angry:

There are 2 Film documentary companies featuring full length exposes on the CULT. Serious media. None of all this "postponement" like ABC TV....
Anyway I could talk you into an Apollo interview ?

Please Email
[email protected]

much love,
Karen
Bear hugs





Dearest Karen,

I had the great pleasure of knowing you when you were "in"
and I can say here clearly :megaphone:

You were and are one of THE kindest, caring people...and when you were "in"...my view is you did what you knew from the information you had to be right and good.
You often helped people feel :welcome:
You helped people :console:
You dusted them off :vacuum:
You fought for what needed to be fought for :fencing::punch:

I could go on and on...but basically you are loved, as is Alexander.
May you forever feel this love, and know in your heart of hearts....
your son is smiling on you and with you. :bighug:

In this song, remember although you will never be the same,
Alexander will always be with you, in your heart :hug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrrOPEUItVI&feature=related

:kiss::heartflower::flowers2:

Tory/Magoo
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I'd just like to put my arms aeound Karen and hug her for as long as she;d let me.
I don't have words for what she has endured with this loss.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is probably a rude note on a thread called Love Bombs, but I sure would like to know.

I never understood the mindsets of org people.

Franchises nurtured independent thought.

I'd love to know what exact buttons were pushed on you to cause your obedience to the group.

It would also be illuminating to know what finally caused a break with the cult mindset.

+++++++++++++++++++Ed ~~
Easier to answer the last question.
Breaks with groups one has been part off occurs on a gradient.
I do not believe for a moment that one decides to leave suddenly and immediately.
I had been disaffected for a while. Many out points showed up daily and consistently but I only exited publicly in June 2010.

I voiced a lot of disagreements in the "safety" of the auditing session for years.

Alexander Jentzsch knew of my disaffection and dreaded that he would be ordered to disconnect and that I would step out and be done with it.
He told some friends it was "only a matter of time before OSA would force him to have no Mom, he already had no Dad."

OSA and the "Church" never have understood how deep the mother/child bond is. No matter what.
Alexander and I did have ups and downs but the Church was always the 3rd party, always the interference between us. Always.

Like Tom Cruise and his wives and Girlfriends, the Church is the 3rd person in the polygamous relationship !

I had been slowly distancing myself from the Church on a gradient. I did not have a single Facebook friend who was IN. I doctored my home page and took any reference to the Church off of it. Embarrassed at how they were carrying on, I removed all books, tapes and other "church" items to the basement. I gave a lot away to Goodwill. My social circles were mostly Non Scientologists. I stopped attending events after the BASICs which almost made me vomit.

One day an incident occurred which was a turning point. Alexander Jentzsch driving on the 101 freeway at Ventura spun out, meaning his vehicle did a 180 degree turn and he was facing the wrong way on the freeway. With adrenal pumping and breathless, waiting for California Highway Patrol to show up, he calls me. No injury, no collision, just a spin out, very little traffic, it is past midnight.

"Jeez Alexander ! What happened ! You are such a safe driver, you have never even had a fender bender ever, how could this happen ?! " I asked relieved to hear no body injury, no close encounters with other traffic, a more less quiet 101 freeway that late at night.

Alexander thought silently. I waited for him to think his thoughts through.
"Mom, it was my Birthday on Monday and Dad did not call to wish my Happy Birthday and I was day dreaming and thinking about the issue."

Alexander was day dreaming about Heber, lack of a father in his life, loses control of his car, and spins out on a Freeway that is lethal for day dreaming drivers !

(Alexander already knew about SP Hole, he would go on tour and the public would come up to him and tell him "David Miscavige is beating people, read the Truth Rundown, Heber is imprisoned in the Hole. etc etc."
Alexander relayed it all to me....)

The impact of Alexander's pain HIT ME. This "No Dad" was a HUGE issue for him. It wasn't some passing thoughts. He felt ABANDONED. He felt he inferior on being the Boy without a Dad.

I went through a range of emotions, but that was the beginning of the END for me. I made a LOT of noise Internally at OSA, even called INT Base a couple of times.

My disaffection could no longer be suppressed or stifled. It was only a matter of time before I connected with Marty and Mike.

Illegally obtaining phone records as they do through shady PIs, OSA found out within 1 month and an OSA exec showed up at my home.

"You've been talking to Mike Rinder" he said accusatively.
"Stealing phone records illegally?" I challenged aggressively.
"Ummmm...no we have PIs" he said weakly.

"Rubbish. Mike Rinder is Florida, I am in Los Angeles and you know I am talking to him ~~ that was Private Investigator visio ~~ that was illegally obtained phone records !" I yelled.

The OSA Exec looked sad. We had been friends a long time. "So, Karen, here it ends, we are now the opposite ends of the fence"

I received a copy of my declare 3 days later. (I wasn't supposed to have a copy, got in "under the table")

FREEDOM !

I shredded my "Certs" symbolically in my high powered shredder I nick named "JAWS."
I framed my Suppressive Person Declare in a Thomas Kinkade Gallery Museum grade Redwood Burl frame !

My trophy for 35 years of service and contribution~~the finale. SUPPRESSIVE PERSON DECLARE !
It is my Trophy. It hangs above the fireplace with pride.

:eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll:
 
Last edited:

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Ah, I settled for stapling my declare smack dab in the middle of my highest cert.

It was dispalyed in my living room before my declare and now still is. All my friends in, out, or never in can not miss it if they come to my home.

My declare is my crowning achievement with that bunch.
 
Much Love to Karen and everyone who has lost a child to Scientology. The Sea Org needs to go out of business.

I will never forget Alexander, I will never stop caring about what happened to him.

Karen, if ever I can be of any assistance to you, I am here for you. :rose:

Roses-300x300.jpg
 
+++++++++++++++++++Ed ~~
Easier to answer the last question.
Breaks with groups one has been part off occurs on a gradient.
I do not believe for a moment that one decides to leave suddenly and immediately.
I had been disaffected for a while. Many out points showed up daily and consistently but I only exited publicly in June 2010.

I voiced a lot of disagreements in the "safety" of the auditing session for years.

Alexander Jentzsch knew of my disaffection and dreaded that he would be ordered to disconnect and that I would step out and be done with it.
He told some friends it was "only a matter of time before OSA would force him to have no Mom, he already had no Dad."

OSA and the "Church" never have understood how deep the mother/child bond is. No matter what.
Alexander and I did have ups and downs but the Church was always the 3rd party, always the interference between us. Always.

Like Tom Cruise and his wives and Girlfriends, the Church is the 3rd person in the polygamous relationship !

I had been slowly distancing myself from the Church on a gradient. I did not have a single Facebook friend who was IN. I doctored my home page and took any reference to the Church off of it. Embarrassed at how they were carrying on, I removed all books, tapes and other "church" items to the basement. I gave a lot away to Goodwill. My social circles were mostly Non Scientologists. I stopped attending events after the BASICs which almost made me vomit.

One day an incident occurred which was a turning point. Alexander Jentzsch driving on the 101 freeway at Ventura spun out, meaning his vehicle did a 180 degree turn and he was facing the wrong way on the freeway. With adrenal pumping and breathless, waiting for California Highway Patrol to show up, he calls me. No injury, no collision, just a spin out, very little traffic, it is past midnight.

"Jeez Alexander ! What happened ! You are such a safe driver, you have never even had a fender bender ever, how could this happen ?! " I asked relieved to hear no body injury, no close encounters with other traffic, a more less quiet 101 freeway that late at night.

Alexander thought silently. I waited for him to think his thoughts through.
"Mom, it was my Birthday on Monday and Dad did not call to wish my Happy Birthday and I was day dreaming and thinking about the issue."

Alexander was day dreaming about Heber, lack of a father in his life, loses control of his car, and spins out on a Freeway that is lethal for day dreaming drivers !

(Alexander already knew about SP Hole, he would go on tour and the public would come up to him and tell him "David Miscavige is beating people, read the Truth Rundown, Heber is imprisoned in the Hole. etc etc."
Alexander relayed it all to me....)

The impact of Alexander's pain HIT ME. This "No Dad" was a HUGE issue for him. It wasn't some passing thoughts. He felt ABANDONED. He felt he inferior on being the Boy without a Dad.

I went through a range of emotions, but that was the beginning of the END for me. I made a LOT of noise Internally at OSA, even called INT Base a couple of times.

My disaffection could no longer be suppressed or stifled. It was only a matter of time before I connected with Marty and Mike.

Illegally obtaining phone records as they do through shady PIs, OSA found out within 1 month and an OSA exec showed up at my home.

"You've been talking to Mike Rinder" he said accusatively.
"Stealing phone records illegally?" I challenged aggressively.
"Ummmm...no we have PIs" he said weakly.

"Rubbish. Mike Rinder is Florida, I am in Los Angeles and you know I am talking to him ~~ that was Private Investigator visio ~~ that was illegally obtained phone records !" I yelled.

The OSA Exec looked sad. We had been friends a long time. "So, Karen, here it ends, we are now the opposite ends of the fence"

I received a copy of my declare 3 days later. (I wasn't supposed to have a copy, got in "under the table")

FREEDOM !

I shredded my "Certs" symbolically in my high powered shredder I nick named "JAWS."
I framed my Suppressive Person Declare in a Thomas Kinkade Gallery Museum grade Redwood Burl frame !

My trophy for 35 years and the finale. It hangs above the fireplace with pride

:eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll:

thanks very much for the history.

It sounds like you had a core faith in the workability of truth in communication with churchies who bought the true faith.

In 1970, my wife and I had a word for Scientologists, who bought every word of LRH, every action of Scientology commanders, every new thing without question.

It was "panter" it came from Pavlov's experiments with dogs and food, getting them to pant at the sound of a bell concurrent with food, then without the food but just the bell. Stimulus / Response. The powers that be said something, the panters bought it.

I learned very early in my Scientology career that it was vitally important to not say certain things to certain people. One of Tom Cruise's (future) ex wives taught me that back in the 1960s. She educated me about the difference between words and actions.

I recognized the danger of being close to LRH. It was safer in the field. It got more dangerous at orgs, more dangerous at St. Hills and AOs. When a little girl, Valerie, who one day was sitting in my lap being read a story, and less than a year later, was in a chain locker because she fell asleep at 2 AM outside Ron's door while being a Commodore's Messenger.

When Rocky Stump was picked up at the airport by Ron, feted at Flag, and declared the moment he left Flag.

The rotten stuff Ron ordered on John McMaster.

Artie Maren showed Phil Spickler LRH's handwriting order to crucify Phil, Malcolm Chemenais, and a hand full of other Class Vllls despite his public pronunciamentos to the contrary.

The field was alive with entheta communication. We got the real scoop close to the moment it occurred.

In orgs,it was very different. Entheta was an ethics offense.

When I went to the AO to go Clear, I was warned up front, to watch out for the "Sea Org cognition." At one point I decided I really had to join the Sea Org and help Ron. When it occurred, I just told myself I was crazy. The cognition went away in another day.

But by the time I got to ASHO for the briefing course, I knew that stats drove everything. I didn't want to do nights and week ends, so I lied and said I worked nights and week ends to afford to be there days. I didn't. Nights and week ends were when I went to movies, climbed rocks, went dancing, sailing. I was down with whatever lie would keep me out of full time study. I could float my needle on will.

Although my wife and I had left the Co$ in 1976, our daughter, after college, wanted to take some courses (and was later regged for some auditing). I hooked her up with Cindy Feshbach's mission. We coached our daughter on all the things that she must never ever say. Things like her doing the Codes course in Dallas at Alan Walter's center in 1995, when she was 15. The auditing her mother and I had given her, the auditing she had given, the names of all her parents friends and family. She was well prepared to not say anything that would get her in trouble. She partook of the goodies, and avoided the cow pies. We set her up with realistic does and don'ts.

I have to think that early on, you were inculcated in the purity of purpose, tech, and organization. For some reason, you bought the words, lock, stock, and barrel, but for whatever reason, didn't see the contradictory activities that were everywhere in the Co$. Something in your core beingness aligned with some extraordinary true moment that you experienced, and the sale of the whole package was made, without your noticing that you had forsaken an important personal bullshit detector. (I am winging this as I write)

Is this even close?
 
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