Love

[I told you I was trouble]

Talking like a fisherman ...? I've never heard that expression before Shirl, but I burst out laughing when I read it although I don't really know why.

Who is this Shirl to whom you speak?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Talking like a fisherman ...? I've never heard that expression before Sheil, but I burst out laughing when I read it although I don't really know why.

Mariners of all stripe are well known for tall tales.

I have made many statements on this board, chief among them a claim to having "seventh dynamic", "OT" influence (NB: only by coaching, not by violating any known laws of physics) on professional sporting events

Most fishermen have some charming story about "the one that got away"

I believe this is what JS meant, though she can speak for herself

 

[JustSheila]

Mariners of all stripe are well known for tall tales.

I have made many statements on this board, chief among them a claim to having "seventh dynamic", "OT" influence (NB: only by coaching, not by violating any known laws of physics) on professional sporting events

Most fishermen have some charming story about "the one that got away"

I believe this is what JS meant, though she can speak for herself

Yah, CP, you got it. You know, you have quite a talent for the nuances of language. I’m impressed.

Mariner storytelling is usually for the sake of a good story and just for fun, not meant to be believed. Tall tales. It’s a bit of a local joke. The one that got away. Exactly!

 

[programmer_guy]

Well, it’s on the Internet, but every King James Version I’ve owned or read said “love” including the hard copy I now own.

Thanks for the Greek word. Agape has very different nuances in Spanish than charity in English. Agape is an all-giving, all-encompassing sort of love where a person is one with another. It is the purest love, also the most romantic in its way. It seems some of those nuances were lost in English translation.

IMO, sometimes the word translation is close enough when understood in the context.
Sometimes, in other items, it can be misleading.
For example, sometimes a word should be translated as "slave" and not "servant".

 

[EZ Linus]

Since the second half of the bible was written in Greek, many words have meanings that can't be translated into English in any exacting way, just like Hebrew can't be translated into English either. It's even harder. The Torah was taken and translated into Greek, then translated into Latin, then books were taken out, changed, then translated to English. How it can be taken for its word is beyond me. The Hebrew language, a little like Greek, is not at all like English. Every character has many meanings. This is why there is the Talmud and a continuing argument among rabbis about what the hell it all meant, because it can be deciphered in a ton of different ways, even numerically. So then someone (a human person or people) took this hard-to-decipher scripture and somehow translated their interpretation of it into Greek, and from there it evolved and changed. How do we know that interpretation, in that moment in time, was appropriate or "correct?" Maybe there isn't one way to view this text. Different people wrote the books of the Torah, that we know. But that's really about all we know. We know that each Torah is copied character by character exactly as it's been written for thousands of years and checked over by rabbis to make sure there are no changes made before it can "be" on the scrolls. But who knows if there was some point in time when someone was in power to make changes before this tradition, just as the Catholics made changes when they were in power, or the emperor of Constantinople or whatever history we don't know about...

Also, the New Testament wasn't even written until at least a few generations after the Jesus thing occurred, if it even did. There are no other records of him existing anywhere else during those times. There are no physical relics left behind to prove he was here other than the scripture--not to say that is NOT something, it is. But I'm talking about some kind of remnants of a building, structure, engraving during that time, an old sandal? Some physical evidence documented that he was around before the 200 years it was documented that he was here.

 

[JustSheila]

Since the second half of the bible was written in Greek, many words have meanings that can't be translated into English in any exacting way, just like Hebrew can't be translated into English either. It's even harder. The Torah was taken and translated into Greek, then translated into Latin, then books were taken out, changed, then translated to English. How it can be taken for its word is beyond me. The Hebrew language, a little like Greek, is not at all like English. Every character has many meanings. This is why there is the Talmud and a continuing argument among rabbis about what the hell it all meant, because it can be deciphered in a ton of different ways, even numerically. So then someone (a human person or people) took this hard-to-decipher scripture and somehow translated their interpretation of it into Greek, and from there it evolved and changed. How do we know that interpretation, in that moment in time, was appropriate or "correct?" Maybe there isn't one way to view this text. Different people wrote the books of the Torah, that we know. But that's really about all we know. We know that each Torah is copied character by character exactly as it's been written for thousands of years and checked over by rabbis to make sure there are no changes made before it can "be" on the scrolls. But who knows if there was some point in time when someone was in power to make changes before this tradition, just as the Catholics made changes when they were in power, or the emperor of Constantinople or whatever history we don't know about...

Also, the New Testament wasn't even written until at least a few generations after the Jesus thing occurred, if it even did. There are no other records of him existing anywhere else during those times. There are no physical relics left behind to prove he was here other than the scripture--not to say that is NOT something, it is. But I'm talking about some kind of remnants of a building, structure, engraving during that time, an old sandal? Some physical evidence documented that he was around before the 200 years it was documented that he was here.

What a great post! Thank you so much for that history.

As a pre-teen Catholic, my favorite discussions were some of the Rabbi commentaries and interpretations of the Torah. Deep stuff! and so inspirational. I completely understood that classic movie (what was the name of it?) where a woman (Barbara Streisand) disguised as a man to study the Torah because only men were allowed. I was hooked on those philosophical commentaries and discussions, and read every book Chaim Potok wrote. There are so many levels of understanding those scriptures that the depth of wisdom in those discussions just knocked me out. Thanks for reminding me. I really enjoyed that.

The shroud of Turin is supposed to be authentic, btw. That’s not much, but regardless of how much of Jesus life was myth, the Torah and Bible have some amazing spiritual philosophy.

 

[lotus]

Also, the New Testament wasn't even written until at least a few generations after the Jesus thing occurred, if it even did. There are no other records of him existing anywhere else during those times. There are no physical relics left behind to prove he was here other than the scripture--not to say that is NOT something, it is. But I'm talking about some kind of remnants of a building, structure, engraving during that time, an old sandal? Some physical evidence documented that he was around before the 200 years it was documented that he was here.

You would certainly love

" l'homme qui devint Dieu"
Author: Gerald Messedié

It's an expert historian about Jesus and his life ( according to historical findings)
The book is fascinating.
I can't find a translation in english !

 

[programmer_guy]

Since the second half of the bible was written in Greek, many words have meanings that can't be translated into English in any exacting way, just like Hebrew can't be translated into English either. It's even harder.
<snip>

And trying to translate just "word-for-word" can sometimes be misleading.
Language is not just always words... it's sometimes phrases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloquialism

So, a translator would also have to be very knowledegable about phrases (not just word-for-word).
They would have to recognize/understand ancient phrases to translate into the language of their society and time-frame.

 

[Me and My Self]

I can't find a translation in english !

HERE in Spanish (free download/read online on Scribd) FWIW
No English for Messadié's Man of God ... but his History of the Devil can be found in English. Go figure ...

 

[Clay Pigeon]

What a great post! Thank you so much for that history.

As a pre-teen Catholic, my favorite discussions were some of the Rabbi commentaries and interpretations of the Torah. Deep stuff! and so inspirational. I completely understood that classic movie (what was the name of it?) where a woman (Barbara Streisand) disguised as a man to study the Torah because only men were allowed. I was hooked on those philosophical commentaries and discussions, and read every book Chaim Potok wrote. There are so many levels of understanding those scriptures that the depth of wisdom in those discussions just knocked me out. Thanks for reminding me. I really enjoyed that.

The shroud of Turin is supposed to be authentic, btw. That’s not much, but regardless of how much of Jesus life was myth, the Torah and Bible have some amazing spiritual philosophy.

And then you studied scientology?

 

[EZ Linus]

What a great post! Thank you so much for that history.

As a pre-teen Catholic, my favorite discussions were some of the Rabbi commentaries and interpretations of the Torah. Deep stuff! and so inspirational. I completely understood that classic movie (what was the name of it?) where a woman (Barbara Streisand) disguised as a man to study the Torah because only men were allowed. I was hooked on those philosophical commentaries and discussions, and read every book Chaim Potok wrote. There are so many levels of understanding those scriptures that the depth of wisdom in those discussions just knocked me out. Thanks for reminding me. I really enjoyed that.

The shroud of Turin is supposed to be authentic, btw. That’s not much, but regardless of how much of Jesus life was myth, the Torah and Bible have some amazing spiritual philosophy.

If you like Potok, you'd probably dig on the writings of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov, the founder of the Hasidic movement. I would suggest a book called the Tales of Rabbi Nachman, specifically the Seven Beggars. I am pretty sure this was a great influence of Potok, if not, then the Hasid ideals in general.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

If you like Potok, you'd probably dig on the writings of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov, the founder of the Hasidic movement. I would suggest a book called the Tales of Rabbi Nachman, specifically the Seven Beggars. I am pretty sure this was a great influence of Potok, if not, then the Hasid ideals in general.

Rabbi Hillel rocks!!!

 

[JustSheila]

I noticed you used that word agape on another thread, CP. You said someone’s jaw was agape. Why just the jaw? Shouldn’t the entire person feel charitable? Doesn’t sound very agape to me when someone is only showing the highest form of love with jaw action. No wonder we say we love food! Is sharing food the best way to show agape? There’s too much charitable jawing going on in the world. I say the family that eats together stays together and a jaw that masticates as a guest even when it tastes bad is more agape than an open mouth.

 

[JustSheila]

And then you studied scientology?

And then a few years later, as a runaway underage teen, I was illegally put to long hours of hard labor without recompense while kept out of school and indoctrinated into a cult under threats of public humiliation, degradation and prolonged periods of insufficient sleep in a militant organization that told me it was a church that would help me but instead used my young years for slave labor. Yes, Scientology.

 

[lotus]

HERE in Spanish (free download/read online on Scribd) FWIW
No English for Messadié's Man of God ... but his History of the Devil can be found in English. Go figure ...

Much thanks MAMS

Did you read the book???
Messadié wrote a few others fascinating books.


( for example historians considers that Marie-Madeleine was not actually a prostitute but Jésus wife") we know it but Dr Hubbard, the Christian true believer (who apparently never read the new testament) fabulated a pedophile historical record of his own which cost hundreds thousands $$$ To read

 

[Me and My Self]

Much thanks MAMS

Did you read the book???
Messadié wrote a few others fascinating books.


( for example historians considers that Marie-Madeleine was not actually a prostitute but Jésus wife") we know it but Dr Hubbard, the Christian true believer (who apparently never read the new testament) fabulated a pedophile historical record of his own which cost hundreds thousands $$$ To read

You are very welcome.
Not yet in full, would love to read it in its original language though. Going backwards from last chapter ("The End is a Starting Point") to the beginning ...
Indeed Messadié has a LOT of interesting titles ... I'd like to read his "Devil" story as I happen to agree with his views (as per the book presentation):

"The biggest ruse of the devil is making us believe that he doesn't exist," claimed Baudelaire. On the contrary, argues bestselling historian and critic Gerald Messadié, the true evil lies in the fact that we believe in him at all.
(...)
Abundant in historical references and cultural analyses, A History of the Devil shows that it is precisely the belief in the devil that lies at the root of religious fanaticism around the world today.

I think what was presented about Magdalena in the "Da Vinci Code" movie could be the most approaching version.

Indeed, "of his own" ... or rather "out of it" ? (as per what I've been reading lately about LRH's "Magickal" meanderings.)

Not much $$$ anymore though, thanks to the Internet and the persistent dedication of exes to expose his $ecret $acred $criptures

Off-topic P.S.
"MAMS" startles me every time someone addresses me as such. I see a crowd of huge, big-tittied, wide open arms matronas coming over to suffocate me ... I'd rather be m&m's. Like the candies ...

 

[freethinker]

No.
Maybe they were printing errors. But it is still funny!

I know they used "v"'s as "u"'s much like the old style "s" that looked like an "f".

Somewhere in the late 1700's they eliminated the "s" with a hook, not sure when they replaced the "v" with a "u"

 

[JustSheila]

Much thanks MAMS

Did you read the book???
Messadié wrote a few others fascinating books.


( for example historians considers that Marie-Madeleine was not actually a prostitute but Jésus wife") we know it but Dr Hubbard, the Christian true believer (who apparently never read the new testament) fabulated a pedophile historical record of his own which cost hundreds thousands $$$ To read

There are a few conflicting historian theories about Mary Magdeline. The prostitute theory assumed this Mary was the same as the one Jesus saved from getting stoned to death, but Mary was a common name and there was no evidence that this Mary was the same woman.

The theory I like best is that Mary was a rich widow, so educated and a bit older, also someone known and respected in the community. The apostles accepted her and did not seem jealous. She was included in all the group theological discussions, which would have been forbidden in Judaism. I’m fascinated that the Catholic Church would remove heretical references to past lives, yet keep the heretical, equal treatment of Mary in the New Testament.

Paul, a Roman and the first church leader, immediately took it upon himself to make rules to segregate women and ban them from the priesthood. His Letters to the Corinthians spelled out all sorts of rules to make the church as patriarchal as possible. Women had to cover their heads in church, be subservient to their husbands, could not serve as priests or at the altar, etc.

Yet the gospel references to Jesus’ fair and equal treatment of Mary with the male apostles remained, with no reference to marriage. That’s odd and controversial enough to support that Jesus actually existed.

 

[lotus]

Yes Sheila,

There have been and still are many conflicting theories and hypothesis regarding Mary Magdelene.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

And then a few years later, as a runaway underage teen, I was illegally put to long hours of hard labor without recompense while kept out of school and indoctrinated into a cult under threats of public humiliation, degradation and prolonged periods of insufficient sleep in a militant organization that told me it was a church that would help me but instead used my young years for slave labor. Yes, Scientology.

WOOF!!!

My experience was much different as it was entirely voluntary and I acted of my own free will keeping my personal integrity.

I had substantial good fortune as a child and was well able to develop a perhaps uncommon degree of personal integrity by the age of 21 when I began a study as public.

I do not endorse and have never practiced what happened to you

I am an open critic of such conduct by CoS and I believe such conduct to be antithetical to the ideals of both Dianetics and Scientology


And I am very pleased to make the acquaintance of one as lively and communicative as yourself

luv ya sweetheart...

Enchante, madame...