Loyalists of The Tech

[everfree]

I tried Everfree, and I was not the only one who cared and tried to make the Sea Org what we all thought it was and should be.

I know you and others tried, even amongst the abuse and neglect I could see that.

In fact, that's one of the things that really made me twig on how corrupt Scientology must be as a philosophy: I know most staffers are good people - mostly starry eyed like myself who really want to make a better world. At least we started out that way.

For such people to set out to make a better world but instead end up with the abusive abomination that is the CofS can only show that there are not just blind spots but out and out twisting of judgement. It would have to be an active, powerful force.

And there is. Mind control, through information control, and constant "reminders" that "we are at war" to induce panic response, and the homogenization of the group by the removal of dissenters...

All instilled by Hubbard. Sure Miscavige is driving the car now but Hubbard built the thing. What place does such mind control have in a group that was really intended to bring freedom?

I got kicked to the curb and declared for standing up and speaking out about abuses of the children and staff, especially the abortions. I was ordered to "handle" my staff who were pregnant to get abortions and divorces. I not only refused, I gave some of them a week off as I was shocked to find out that many had not seen their families for over 10 years. (I am also happy to report that none of those children were aborted and 8 of the 10 parents involved are now out of the cult. Sadly one couple and their daughter went back to Flag).

Very sad. I'm horrified that I ever supported a group in which such things were/are commonplace.

I had already turned around an order to cancel family time into a program to handle the QI and got all my staff together to cover for family time for the staff that had kids. We all covered each others posts and took each others kids on "libs" (Liberty=day off) to the beach and movies.

Yes! That's exactly the sort of positive, creative solution I mean - everything is taken into account and everyone wins! Thank you for doing that. For what it's worth, even now I sincerely highly appreciate your attempts to truly improve things. Some people I have known would be much better off had your efforts been widely followed. I'm sure that at least those around you were better for it.

I expected to see all issues tackled like that all the time, was extremely surprised to find things were very much not like that.

If CofS is to survive it will need to adopt such practices. As it exists now it deserves the inglorious, whimpering demise that is surely around the corner for it when DM rabbits with the money then gets arrested and extradited... or however that works out.

But then again it seems a no-brainer to instead seek out a philosophy and group that didn't ever implement mind control techniques to wring out every last bit of its members' lives.

I had all the references from HCOBs, HCOPLs, LRH books and tapes, every thing I could find that Hubbard ever said about families, children, marriage, abortion, 2nd Dynamic, all of it!

I have many of the "Things that shouldn't be" reports and KRs I wrote and commendations from my staff at that time. My Comm-ev (Committee of Evidence is scientologies fake kangaroo court "Court Martial") even agreed with me, but they were sent to ethics for not declaring me and I was declared anyway by Bittie Miscavige and her sister Griffee Blythe.(who went on LOA to take care of her own grandchildren when her son died (rumored suicide).)

Bittie Miscavige said to me when I was pregnant and under a non-enturbulation order (under house arrest and not allowed to talk to anyone except the MAA) and I quote: "Your husband will leave you if you refuse to have an abortion. Your husband wants you to have an abortion. Your husband will never leave the Sea Org."

Well fuck you Bittie! I am a grandmother now and I am still happily married to my husband.

How do you sleep at night? I hope you don't.

I will reconsider if you grow a pair and stand up and tell the truth.

BTW Bittie, where is your sister-in-law Shelly Miscavige?

Geez, what a story. I would never have believed anyone would have to go through something like that in order to have a baby and have it taken care of properly while working for "total freedom". It also happened to someone else I'm close to, and many others as well. I'm glad you have grandkids and are still married despite all of the pressure otherwise.

Let's hope that Bittie and all the other Bitties out there do some day gain the moral courage and integrity to face up to the damage they have done in their quest to "bring total freedom", if indeed that was ever their quest at all.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

families, children, marriage, abortion, 2nd Dynamic

-snip-

Descending into Scientology, towards its dark core -

Families? According to Hubbard, Genetic Entities are mainly concerned with families.

Children? According to Hubbard, children are just ancient thetans in little bodies.

Marriage? Per Hubbard, Marriage is subordinate to the group, and the most ethical - and important - group on the planet is Scientology.

Abortion? As early as 1952, Hubbard spoke gleefully about inducing abortions.

The 2nd dynamic? Isn't that the "psych" invented dynamic?, that's used to "keep beings small"? (Implication being that ancient "psychs" invented "meat bodies" long long ago.)

Much would depend on where in the 'Scientological Onion' one finds oneself.

No doubt it can be perplexing and frustrating.

And the secrecy of Scientology doctrine don't help matters.

In 1950, Hubbard appears to be opposed to abortion (although mostly botched attempted abortion) in his broadly publicized Dianetic writings but, by 1952, in his 'PDC' lectures, not meant for the broad 'wog' public, is expressing excitement about the ease with which an abortion can be performed - with (energy) "beams."

A while back, Alanzo wrote something about the cruel game of "Things that shouldn't be" reports, and "knowledge Reports," that almost always hit a brick wall.

I can't find it, or I'd link to it.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Well, saying it's easy doesn't mean that he thought it was GREAT. But if you were to say he was contradictory about the sanctity of life and the treatment of others, I would agree wholeheartedly.

I think the church's actions re abortion are shameful and hypocritical.

 

[Zinjifar]

accusing Scientology of hypocrisy is like accusing a gyroscope of spinning.

Zinj

 

[Veda]

Well, saying it's easy doesn't mean that he thought it was GREAT. But if you were to say he was contradictory about the sanctity of life and the treatment of others, I would agree wholeheartedly.

I think the church's actions re abortion are shameful and hypocritical.

The Church's actions are mostly Hubbard-endorsed actions, and Hubbard did think it was GREAT. He was happily excited about it, and seemed quite familiar with the topic also. (The voice of experience?)

"Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple, there are muscles and so forth which contract and expand at a certain period every month.

"Pregnancies that were as much as three months advanced have been terminated this way. Isn't this fascinating? ...It's just deadly. One, two, three!"

 

[everfree]

The Church's actions are mostly Hubbard-endorsed actions, and Hubbard did think it was GREAT. He was happily excited about it, and seemed quite familiar with the topic also. (The voice of experience?)

"Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple, there are muscles and so forth which contract and expand at a certain period every month.

"Pregnancies that were as much as three months advanced have been terminated this way. Isn't this fascinating? ...It's just deadly. One, two, three!"

Interesting. I didn't know he had spoken positively about abortions anywhere. Which tape is that from?

 

[Veda]

'PDC' lecture #39.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Interesting. I didn't know he had spoken positively about abortions anywhere. Which tape is that from?

According to Hubbard's son, Hubbard tried preforming an abortion on him

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology-1751/Dianetics-abortion.htm

 

[Veda]

Just a note: I believe Ron jr. when he said that - as a small boy, accidentally - he witnessed his father performing a (do-it-yourself at-home) abortion on his mother, and that his mother later told him about other abortions which were forced on her by her impulsively abusive husband, but the parts about demonic embryo implants, etc. being the reason why - Well, that's not what Ron Jr. witnessed, but what he was told by his father years later. What Ron Jr saw, and what he was told by his father, sometimes become confused, as they occasionally were in the 'Penthouse' article. Hubbard's Sr.'s motivation for performing abortions on his wife (in the 1930s) was probably brutally practical, but probably not part of a black magic ritual.

At the same time, Ron Sr. also gave Ron Jr. some actual "inside information," so it takes some sorting out.

This from a recent thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=311326&postcount=86

The 'Scientological Onion':

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19183&postcount=1

 

[everfree]

'PDC' lecture #39.

Wow. Looking over the transcript, he is describing using "theta powers" to induce abortion (though he calls it birth control) in the context of the abundance or scarcity of resources and over population. That makes it a direct precedent for enforcing abortions in the SO, I hadn't been aware that there was one.

Here's the context (fair use quote):

Everybody's very well aware of it here on Earth that we must have a
scarcity of particles in order to increase wantingness. And they've increased
it and it's gotten out of gear to a point where there can be no real game for
the majority of people here and they're not even aware of the fact they're in a
game until they're pretty solidly processed. They'll come up the level and
they'll all of a sudden get back their spirit of play. They're practically dead
there because scarcity of space, really, but space has no value, and scarcity-
enforced scarcity of particles when there is such an abundance of particles
and an abundance of potential food production that you couldn't keep up
with it.
Now as far as birth control is concerned, you say, "Well, yes, birth control
would just overreach this food supply." Oh, no, it wouldn't.
The auditors who have discovered this to date have asked me not to
mention it, but Theta Clearing provides pregnancy termination at will. We
mustn't mention this because, God help us all, there goes the moral code.
Penicillin took out the disease level and now a person- a girl can take a
couple of beams of energy, just move out back of her head and take a couple
of beams· of energy and terminate a pregnancy.
I mean it is no-nothing-nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or any-
thing like that. Just make sure that the tube opens. It's very simple, very-
there are muscles, and so forth, which contract and expand at a certain
period of every month and that sort of thing and pregnancies that were as
much as three months advanced, and that sort of thing, have been terminated this way. In how long? Twenty-four hours. With what kind of a setup?
None. What kind of repercussions? None. Isn't this fascinating.
So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in Theta
Clearing. A lot of experimentation could be done with something like this, in order to get it all down fine. But the three auditors who have had anything to do with it have discovered that it was just deadly-one, two, three.
Well, if you've got-if you've got birth control under control and you have
food- in plenty, gosh! It looks to me like the game could get very interesting and very easy here on Earth. Yes, it could. Because look at what people are mainly concerned ot: It's all right for us in this country, we've got plenty of food; but gee! they've got an abundance of babies as the whole goal of the society of India and China. Oh, no! It's just-you just-Puerto Rico, with one of the heaviest populated areas in the world, is playing a game down there now of having eighteen children per family. Oh, it's just grim! Well, you provide a superfluity of human beings like this, they get so cheap that there's no role for them in any game.

So, if there's not enough food, you just have abortions and everyone can have a role in a game! And anyone who doesn't see that is obviously insane and need to be enlightened until they have the abortion, and if you need to apply some external influence to get them to stop dramatizing their bank so be it. Makes sense.

 

[bts2free]

Wow. Looking over the transcript, he is describing using "theta powers" to induce abortion (though he calls it birth control) in the context of the abundance or scarcity of resources and over population. That makes it a direct precedent for enforcing abortions in the SO, I hadn't been aware that there was one.

Here's the context (fair use quote):

Quote:
Everybody's very well aware of it here on Earth that we must have a
scarcity of particles in order to increase wantingness. And they've increased
it and it's gotten out of gear to a point where there can be no real game for
the majority of people here and they're not even aware of the fact they're in a
game until they're pretty solidly processed. They'll come up the level and
they'll all of a sudden get back their spirit of play. They're practically dead
there because scarcity of space, really, but space has no value, and scarcity-
enforced scarcity of particles when there is such an abundance of particles
and an abundance of potential food production that you couldn't keep up
with it.
Now as far as birth control is concerned, you say, "Well, yes, birth control
would just overreach this food supply." Oh, no, it wouldn't.
The auditors who have discovered this to date have asked me not to
mention it, but Theta Clearing provides pregnancy termination at will. We
mustn't mention this because, God help us all, there goes the moral code.
Penicillin took out the disease level and now a person- a girl can take a
couple of beams of energy, just move out back of her head and take a couple
of beams· of energy and terminate a pregnancy.
I mean it is no-nothing-nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or any-
thing like that. Just make sure that the tube opens. It's very simple, very-
there are muscles, and so forth, which contract and expand at a certain
period of every month and that sort of thing and pregnancies that were as
much as three months advanced, and that sort of thing, have been terminated this way. In how long? Twenty-four hours. With what kind of a setup?
None. What kind of repercussions? None. Isn't this fascinating.
So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in Theta
Clearing. A lot of experimentation could be done with something like this, in order to get it all down fine. But the three auditors who have had anything to do with it have discovered that it was just deadly-one, two, three.
Well, if you've got-if you've got birth control under control and you have
food- in plenty, gosh! It looks to me like the game could get very interesting and very easy here on Earth. Yes, it could. Because look at what people are mainly concerned ot: It's all right for us in this country, we've got plenty of food; but gee! they've got an abundance of babies as the whole goal of the society of India and China. Oh, no! It's just-you just-Puerto Rico, with one of the heaviest populated areas in the world, is playing a game down there now of having eighteen children per family. Oh, it's just grim! Well, you provide a superfluity of human beings like this, they get so cheap that there's no role for them in any game.




So, if there's not enough food, you just have abortions and everyone can have a role in a game! And anyone who doesn't see that is obviously insane and need to be enlightened until they have the abortion, and if you need to apply some external influence to get them to stop dramatizing their bank so be it. Makes sense.

The longer I've been out of Scientology, and I read something like this again from Scientology "scripture" it's amazing that I ever bought into any of it at all. LRH was disgusting. Makes me wonder if this reference from the PDC is shown to any of the SO girls being forced into abortions to "make them feel better" about going through with it.

I vote on throwing this piece of "Tech" data right into the garbage along with the scumbag who said it.

 

[everfree]

The longer I've been out of Scientology, and I read something like this again from Scientology "scripture" it's amazing that I ever bought into any of it at all. LRH was disgusting. Makes me wonder if this reference from the PDC is shown to any of the SO girls being forced into abortions to "make them feel better" about going through with it.

I vote on throwing this piece of "Tech" data right into the garbage along with the scumbag who said it.

Yeah, it gives me the heebie jeebies to read it now.

 

[MostlyLurker]

Funny that he takes into account the overpopulation. When he needs to make wrong the wog world this planet becomes grossly underpopulated.

"This Earth civilization is a great example of wrong orders of magnitude. They think small. Even microscopic about too many things. How much water does California need? Count on Earth think to underestimate it 100X! The result is deserts, lack of food, crazy worries about "overpopulation" (on a grossly underpopulated planet). Earth engineers apparently cannot conceive of the order of magnitude of the engineering works required. You'd think they were playing with mud pies. This underestimation - wrong orders of magnitude - are ingrained in the present culture. Typical of losers."​

​

LRH, HCOPL 13 April 1982 "Proportionate Marketing Addition"​

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

How does Hubbard's con game explain over population, in as ... where are all these extra Thetans coming from, how are they being created? More people are being born than dying so the differential has to be coming from somewhere

 

[KnightVision]

LconH is a boring, disturbed person. Becoming his servant, i.e. a 'Scientologist' will ensure that one achieves this status.

 

[lkwdblds]

A "no-brainer"

How does Hubbard's con game explain over population, in as ... where are all these extra Thetans coming from, how are they being created? More people are being born than dying so the differential has to be coming from somewhere

According to the Xenu story there were something like 76 plants averaging 175 billion population each. This yields potentially. 13.3 trillion thetans brought here to planet Earth. I am not saying I personally believe this data is true but you are asking how Hubbard's con game explains it and that would be how he does it.
Lkwdblds

 

[Mark A. Baker]

How does Hubbard's con game explain over population, in as ... where are all these extra Thetans coming from, how are they being created? More people are being born than dying so the differential has to be coming from somewhere

Actually no. This fallacy results from a false analogy to physical laws and especially the law of conservation of mass & energy.

It rests on the following apriori assumptions:

A. That the quantity of spirits is limited & determinate.

B. That all spirits are currently accounted for by existing incarnations.

C. The domain of possible incarnations is completely known.

D. That spirits conform to the same sort of physical laws as the physical universe.


All of the above are convenient & comfortable assumptions which come readily to mind. However, there is in fact absolutely no logical merit in any of them. There is no inherent reason to believe that non-physical phenomena, i.e. spirits, comply with principles derived from the observation of physical phenomena. Historically mystics & other spiritual investigators have reported numerous personal experiences which routinely contradict such a view and the above assumptions.

These reported experiences constitute the major area of disagreement in the "man is a spiritual being" vs the "man is wholly a product of the physical universe" controversy. Materialists simply won't accept others subjective experience of spirituality, and refuse to have any for themselves.

The subject of spirituality is contained within that branch of philosophy which deals with metaphysics. Philosophical Metaphysics is NOT the subject of occultism but instead treats of the philosophical study of the non-phenomenonological basis of being. As such it transcends the nature of observable physical phenomena. It may parallel the phenomena of the physical universe but it is NOT limited to such behavior.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Gadfly]

If there is any validity to the idea that EVOLUTION is occurring on a spiritual level, in addition to "physical" evolution, then there might always be "new thetans" entering this universe, as well as some "leaving". Plus, the majority of the actual "evolution" may be occurring on OTHER planes, not physical, and simply manifest here in certain ways. Who knows?

I remember reading a NOTs promo pamplet many years ago, and it asked the question, "Where do thetan's come from"? Tied in with the idea is the notion that a thetan can have "baby thetans". In other words, the concept of "finite" doesn't apply at all. Apparently, on the spiritual realm, where all is MUCH MORE CREATIVE, NEW things are coming into existence all of the time (incuding "thetans" apparently). There is no "fixed" reality per se.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Actually no. This fallacy results from a false analogy to physical laws and especially the law of conservation of mass & energy.

It rests on the following apriori assumptions:

A. That the quantity of spirits is limited & determinate.

B. That all spirits are currently accounted for by existing incarnations.

C. The domain of possible incarnations is completely known.

D. That spirits conform to the same sort of physical laws as the physical universe.


All of the above are convenient & comfortable assumptions which come readily to mind. However, there is in fact absolutely no logical merit in any of them. There is no inherent reason to believe that non-physical phenomena, i.e. spirits, comply with principles derived from the observation of physical phenomena. Historically mystics & other spiritual investigators have reported numerous personal experiences which routinely contradict such a view and the above assumptions.

These reported experiences constitute the major area of disagreement in the "man is a spiritual being" vs the "man is wholly a product of the physical universe" controversy. Materialists simply won't accept others subjective experience of spirituality, and refuse to have any for themselves.

The subject of spirituality is contained within that branch of philosophy which deals with metaphysics. Philosophical Metaphysics is NOT the subject of occultism but instead treats of the philosophical study of the non-phenomenonological basis of being. As such it transcends the nature of observable physical phenomena. It may parallel the phenomena of the physical universe but it is NOT limited to such behavior.


Mark A. Baker

Did you actually at one point intend to answer the question, but got caught up in your flimflam and forgot to, or did you just feel like tossing out some flimflam right from the onset?

 

[Zinjifar]

A. That the quantity of spirits is limited & determinate.

B. That all spirits are currently accounted for by existing incarnations.

C. The domain of possible incarnations is completely known.

'Actually' these aren't my assumptions, but, they *are* the assumptions at the core of Scientology. Ron said so. Without these 'assumptions' Scientology is pure blather. In fact; Scientology is pure blather either way, but, without these assumptions it's a priori blather.

Zinj