LRH and CIA

Terril park

Sponsor
LRH and CIA

By coincidence this is a result of a correspondence yesterday with Ken Urquhart on the concept of CIA being on the Apollo. Raised on
our FZ forum.

I felt it useful to propagate in that particularly Rons Orgs guys
tend to go for CBRs conspiracy theories, which one can trace to LRH conspiracy theories. I love that ROs train so many. :)

Ken was there at the time.

bb [ aka Terril Park]


-------------------------
A story appeared on a public list recently that caught the attention
of Ken Urquhart, formerly LRH's Personal Communicator on The Apollo and later at Clearwater -- until he was RPF'd for "Rock Slams." by the then CMO and their cohorts, under the influence of Dear Miscavige.

I had some exchanges with Ken on the subject, and the following is
the gist of what he said:

The story/rumor/fable/fantasy/brain-fart is that LRH was caught in a
web of conspiracy in 1972, with the CIA aboard the ship. The only
"conspiracy" that troubled LRH in that year was the effort by the French
Government to have him extradited from Morocco, where he was
living in his Tangiers villa. That effort was beyond his ability to control
or subvert, so he skipped over to the US in a hurry, staying there for
a year.

Part of the rumor is that Paul Preston, a member of the ship's crew
in 1972 had a history in the military and was therefore, ipso facto, a
member of the CIA. In actual fact, Preston was one of the few people
that LRH took with him to the USA in 1972. As LRH was in some
danger then and needed to hide, would he have taken from the ship
the one supposed known CIA member/plant?

I have my own direct recall of those days. I put LRH on the plane to
NY. I had to get him out of Lisbon without anyone knowing he was
going, or that it was he who was going anywhere. At the airport, I
had two senior crew-members pass within a foot or so of my body,
and neither noticed us. I took this as a measure of LRH's abilities,
not mine. Anyway, I thought I could verify my recall and my
estimation of this rumor, and I checked out the CIA story with
one of the people who went to NY with LRH in 1972-73, and
who, of course, knew Preston well.

I asked for his comments on the following excerpt from a chat list:

"Many of those involved with RONS Orgs. are familiar with Capt. William Robertson and his statement about a prearranged signal. Apparently Ron walked away from CBR right in the middle of a comm. cycle and it seems that Ron was signaling him that Ron had been compromised. I believe a Green Beret by the name of Preston (or a name similar to that) was spotted on board by Ron."

and I added, to clarify things for my old friend, "What this writer was saying earlier
is that the CIA was on board the Apollo by 1972, and that LRH was fully aware of the fact."
My friend's response was:

"Hi Ken,
This is pretty silly stuff. If preston was CIA why did lrh let him come with him to NYC for 10 months, and handling all the secret communication? Tell them to get a life! You were there the night LRH decided to have him as his body guard.
I doubt secret signals between LRh and bill. Between you and him very possible, but Capt Bill!!!??"

To this, BB, I will now add something of my own view of LRH as he was at that time:

Ron didn't "do" signals. If he wanted you to understand something,
you got it loud and clear with no ambiguities. He didn't "do"
compromise either. If he was put at effect, he yelled, screamed.
stamped his feet, and he ACTED to end the unwelcome influence.
I guess one had to experience the man to know how he behaved.
He was afraid of nothing, fought on his toes all the time, he moved
very quickly, and was capable of mighty and very fast punches as
he moved.

Signals and compromises be damned!

If he had had any inkling that a CIA operative was on
the ship -- had that person got on board past the crew's watchfulness,
let alone that of MSH (who would have laid down her life to keep her
husband secure) -- that person would have been rushed off the ship
faster than he could think "CIA." Moreover, LRH would have instantly
dreamed up a way to use the development as a severe embarrass-
ment for the CIA and the American Government. Then the decks would
have been suddenly manned by formerly very senior execs.

LRH was a professional. He didn't live his life like a character out of
a very second-rate novel. With all due respect to the people who
believe silly rumors that make him a lot less than he was, to those
that were fortunate enough to take the measure of the man -- to
know, as the British Victorians used to say, to know the size of
his boots -- the rumor-creators look like they have watched too
many soaps, read too many sci-fi novels. I ask them please to
look at any false data they might have, and get real.

It's time we started remembering that LRH, with all his faults
and failings, was a VERY BIG BEING with staggering
confront, courage, and energy. The hardest thing for people
to realize about him, those who never experienced him, is
how BIG he was, how far above the 'merely human' he
could be. And probably still is. There isn't one human being
on planet Earth that LRH couldn't blow away if he wanted to,
if face-to-face.
[May one D.Miscavige be high on the Old Man's list for blowing
away (if he has such a list). Well, for all I know, I might be on
that list too. :))]

All best wishes, bb.
Ken
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
In Corfu we had an American lady join the ship. She worked on the galley area. I cannot remember her name but there was some concern she was a "plant". I know Hubbard had his radar on her.

Dart
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

There isn't one human being
on planet Earth that LRH couldn't blow away if he wanted to,
if face-to-face.

-snip-

All best wishes, bb.
Ken

That's almost as good as Urquhart's, "There is no one of sufficient stature on this planet to stand in judgment of L. Ron Hubbard."
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Ron was afraid of nothing? I'm wondering why he was in seclusion/hiding from 1978 forward. Guess he couldn't "act".
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
....

It's time we started remembering that LRH, with all his faults
and failings, was a VERY BIG BEING with staggering
confront, courage, and energy. The hardest thing for people
to realize about him, those who never experienced him, is
how BIG he was, how far above the 'merely human' he
could be. And probably still is. There isn't one human being
on planet Earth that LRH couldn't blow away if he wanted to,
if face-to-face.
....

Ken

Goodness gwacious. Size certainly matters to someone. :coolwink:

Sadder than sad, I s'pose. Immature old [scala]wags still believing in their larger than life santas, gurus, masters, personal gods ....
 

Veda

Sponsor
Compare the cowardly and paranoid cult leader Hubbard with two other cult leaders:

Lyndon LaRouche, who was sentenced to prison for mail fraud and tax violations, and continued to run his organization while serving his sentence. He was eventually released from prison, and continues to lead his organization at age 87.

Then there's Sun Myung Moon, another cult leader, who was sent to prison for income tax fraud and conspiracy. He continued to run his organization from inside prison, and was eventually released, and continues as leader of his organization at age 90.

Hubbard let his wife take the rap for his misdeeds, and ran away and hid - all the while making sure that the cash flow, and his monuments-to-himself projects, continued.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you, Terril, for this information.

I knew Preston and Urq. I also knew Jim Dincalci (sp?) El Ron’s personal nurse that went with him to NYC. Urq and Jim Din were great guys but re: “Marshall Combat” were complete milquetoasts.

I also knew Andre Tabayoyen (sp?) and Bill Broderick, both Vietnam Vets and former US Army Special Forces and Intel that served time as El Ron’s personal security guards.

Mano Y Mano Preston, Tabayoyen or Broderick could have “taken out” El Ron in a heartbeat. Hell, I coulda taken out El Ron (back then I was 6 foot, 195lbs and had been in more than 1 real fist fight and had looked down the barrel of a loaded gun point blank). Hisself was full of bravado and BS but El Ron was not brave, nor “tough as nails”. In many ways, El Ron was a “prissy sissy” popinjay.

El Ron's greatest strength was the ability to “cast a spell” on others; El Ron's greatest weakness was fear of others being more “powerful” than Hisself.

Face:)
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
Ron was afraid of nothing? I'm wondering why he was in seclusion/hiding from 1978 forward. Guess he couldn't "act".

My opinion is that as Ken said, one on one Hubbard could handle lots.

So can I and others for that matter.

Handling government justice systems and cops is another matter.

They have societies agreed on force. This is often beneficial, and often otherwise.

The OP sort of says this.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
So, the definition of OT should be changed to "one on one, without the presences of cops, an OT is capable of handling matter, energy, space, time and life"
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Thank you, Terril, for this information.

I knew Preston and Urq. I also knew Jim Dincalci (sp?) El Ron’s personal nurse that went with him to NYC. Both were great guys but re: “Marshall Combat” were complete milquetoasts.

I also knew Andre Tabayoyen (sp?) and Bill Broderick, both Vietnam Vets and former US Army Special Forces and Intel that served time as El Ron’s personal security guards.

Mano Y Mano Preston, Tabayoyen or Broderick could have “taken out” El Ron in a heartbeat. Hell, I coulda taken out El Ron . Hisself was full of bravado and BS but El Ron was not brave, nor “tough as nails”. In many ways, El Ron was a “prissy sissy”.

El Ron's greatest strength was the ability to “cast a spell” on others; El Ron's greatest weakness was fear of others being more “powerful” than Hisself.

Face:)

This rings true.

I think it was only government agencies he couldn't directly handle.

Which I expect led to founding GO and their excesses.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
afaceinthecrowd said:
Thank you, Terril, for this information.

I knew Preston and Urq. I also knew Jim Dincalci (sp?) El Ron’s personal nurse that went with him to NYC. Both were great guys but re: “Marshall Combat” were complete milquetoasts.

I also knew Andre Tabayoyen (sp?) and Bill Broderick, both Vietnam Vets and former US Army Special Forces and Intel that served time as El Ron’s personal security guards.

Mano Y Mano Preston, Tabayoyen or Broderick could have “taken out” El Ron in a heartbeat. Hell, I coulda taken out El Ron . Hisself was full of bravado and BS but El Ron was not brave, nor “tough as nails”. In many ways, El Ron was a “prissy sissy”.

El Ron's greatest strength was the ability to “cast a spell” on others; El Ron's greatest weakness was fear of others being more “powerful” than Hisself.

Face:)

This rings true.

In reference to face's comments does not jibe with, i.e is directly contradictory, to

Terril park said:
I think it was only government agencies he couldn't directly handle.

Weasel words. PR, in $cnspeak.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Don't get you.

Please say more.

The contradiction is in that your response, "this rings true," to face's statement comes across as "weasely" or disingenuous, PR'ish agreement given your immediately following remark that "I think it was only government agencies he couldn't directly handle."

Unless, of course face's summary comment of, "El Ron's greatest strength was the ability to “cast a spell” on others; El Ron's greatest weakness was fear of others being more “powerful” than Hisself" really does ring true for you as a valid, honorable method and motivation for the BIG BEING's "handling" of others.

And one doesn't handle a generality of government agencies; which are, after all, nothing more than bureaucratic employees or political appointees with specific identities. Even dm, if the story as told is to be believed, twigged on that when he and rathbun "handled" the IRS [agency] i.e. the specific, individual then-commissar--er--commissioner.
 
In reference to face's comments does not jibe with, i.e is directly contradictory, to



Weasel words. PR, in $cnspeak.

Not at all. You can only draw that conclusion if you genuinely believe the only way to handle someone "one on one" is via "mano a mano". Nothing could be further from the truth. Many a physically strong individual has been the loyal servant of another person who lacked his physical strength.


Mark A. Baker
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Not at all. You can only draw that conclusion if you genuinely believe the only way to handle someone "one on one" is via "mano a mano". Nothing could be further from the truth. Many a physically strong individual has been the loyal servant of another person who lacked his physical strength.


Mark A. Baker

Hi, Mark. Ok, now I'm the one that don't get it. Lost the context somewhere, here. What conclusion, my opinion that Terril's response to face's post was "weasel" (PR) words and contradictory?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Not at all. You can only draw that conclusion if you genuinely believe the only way

-snip-

Oh my. Looks like you and your partner had better move into some heavy-duty emergency love-bombing, ARC-ifying, and schmoozing, then return to the, "Sure LRH wasn't perfect, but neither were the discoverer of fire or the inventors of the wheel and the arch."

Scientology PR damage control on an ex Scientology forum ain't easy is it?
 
Hi, Mark. Ok, now I'm the one that don't get it. Lost the context somewhere, here. What conclusion, my opinion that Terril's response to face's post was "weasel" (PR) words and contradictory?

The supposed contradiction that you cited. We may be talking past each other.

Face's comment dealt with the ease with which Hubbard could be "taken out" as standing in contrast to Hubbard's supposed ability to "handle anyone one on one". I don't see that there is necessarily a contradiction, for the reason cited.


Mark A. Baker
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Hubbard was a blowhard, a bully, a fraud, a con, who lived in great fear of anything that would exposed him, and he died a broken, diseased, fragmented mind, swatting at the imaginary BT's he created while hiding from the evil world that was out to get him. To aspire to create some sort of legend of his 'bigness' or benevolence, or really anything
remotely positive, is like saying 'Well, Hitler did like puppies...so wasn't so bad...'
There, I said it. Haven't done a Godwin before but it was hard to resist.... I'll try harder next time eh.
:p
 
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