LRH secret WO II record

[Lermanet_com]

A friend of mine contacted Fletcher Prouty and got a letter from him regarding what he (Prouty) described in his reply as a 'work for hire" - referring to that letter he crafted for Scn suggesting LRH had a 'sheep dipped' personnel file. At the time he (my friend) didnt want it webbed... some about this was posted to ARS in 95 or 96

 

[degraded being]

Hubbardites don't need no education. People in universities are just dumb. If you know how to build a chicken house it shows you is more better at education
than some hair-brain in an ivory tower. As a chicken house is builded, or mending the radiator on the car, so too can you understand the human mind, psychology, psychiatry theology and everything else. And if you trust some hokey old compulsive lie factory twaddle, and get criticized, jez don't listen. Don't need no criticizing, neither.

 

[Veda]

Scientology makes smart people stupid and honest people dishonest (about Scientology)

Following Haydn, on Marty's blog, comes 'Thoughtful', whose double-talk and weasel words are worth reviewing.

"Scientologists respect LRH because his developments and discoveries in Scientology work. [Really? To what end?] We don't care about anything else. [Keep your eyes on that 'closely taped path.' Don't get too close. The tape is sticky in both sides.] LRH was not perfect [Straw man argument, who said LRH was 'perfect'?], he was just a man. He always made that clear. [Really? He told Scientologists that he was the Maitreya, the re-incarnated Buddha, a Clear and OT, who could exteriorize with full perception, and knew 'with certainty' who he 'was and where [he] was in the last 80 trillion years.'] The fact that an imperfect man, an imperfect man as the rest of us [Homo Novis, Clear, pre-OT and OT Scientologists, in contrast to wog homo sap humanoid non-Scientologists] can create something as great as auditing and training, Wow! That's the greatest accomplishment in history." [Why? States above 'man' were promised: homo novis, Clear and OT; and this justified the covert application of the ideas and methods of this nasty little booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg on Scientologists, and the application of the insane 'attack!' and 'covert attack' - ie. Fair Game - 'philosophy' http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=381568&postcount=13 on 'critics' and dissidents. All based on, and justified by, the promise of superhuman states and abilities.

And in the end, Scientologists are just 'humanoids'? [Or perhaps slightly worse off than 'humanoids'?] That sounds like a failure - unless, LRH had a hidden agenda, a secret 'real goal,' one that had little to do with his publicized promises, and much to do with his self-aggrandizing objective of building monuments to himself and establishing his own fan(atic) club, a fan(atic) club that identified him, his name and 'image,' and his words with their own survival and well being, and the survival and well being of Mankind.

Now, in a perverse way, that's an accomplishment, and that deserves a "Wow!"

 

[Mystic]

Sure seems to take a lot of carrying on to expose a tulpa. That such an entity exists is not very well known about in the general world.

 

[Peter Soderqvist]

Heather // April 17, 2010 at 11:22 am | Reply
Chris Owen M.B.E. wrote on Ron’s war record. Chris was awarded a Member of the British Empire for his services as a British military historian
http://www.solitarytrees.net/cowen/warhero/contents.htm

martyrathbun09 // April 17, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Heather, If I had the time and the inclination, I could make mincemeat of the honorable Member of the British Empire’s “research.” But, I have neither. Peace
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/clearwater-retrospection/#comment-20080

Soderqvist1: this is something which is easier to say than to do!
Marty hasn’t disproved anything of significance, yet he seems to want to take credit without actually doing so, I would say, put up or shut up!

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Heather // April 17, 2010 at 11:22 am | Reply
Chris Owen M.B.E. wrote on Ron’s war record. Chris was awarded a Member of the British Empire for his services as a British military historian
http://www.solitarytrees.net/cowen/warhero/contents.htm

martyrathbun09 // April 17, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Heather, If I had the time and the inclination, I could make mincemeat of the honorable Member of the British Empire’s “research.” But, I have neither. Peace
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/clearwater-retrospection/#comment-20080

Soderqvist1: this is something which is easier to say than to do!
Marty hasn’t disproved anything of significance, yet he seems to want to take credit without actually doing so, I would say, put up or shut up!

Rathbun actually posted that? This guy is a class A nimrod.

 

[Student of Trinity]

... [Hubbard's] description of some badass (Gris?) from Mission Earth that he would lie even when the truth would serve.

"He would lie even when the truth would serve." I thought that sounded like a pretty cool characterization. I thought, hey, maybe Hubbard wasn't such a bad writer. Then I thought, wait, this was Hubbard.

The full original line is "He would lie even when the truth would serve him better, just to stay in practice." It was apparently said by Harry Truman of Richard Nixon, and it subsequently became a fairly common phrase. I can't find the exact occasion when Truman said this, but it is attributed to him (and about Nixon) in several places turned up by Google, and the phrase is also often quoted without attribution. Since Truman died more than a decade before the first Mission: Earth volume, I doubt Hubbard invented this fine phrase.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Paul

 

[rhill]

martyrathbun09 // April 17, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Heather, If I had the time and the inclination, I could make mincemeat of the honorable Member of the British Empire’s “research.” But, I have neither. Peace
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/clearwater-retrospection/#comment-20080

When a deeply religious Scientologist says "I could make mincemeat of...", I can't help but think of Scientology scriptures that say "Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press" or "Never fear to hurt another in a just cause" or all those other similar-sounding Scientology religious teachings. Comforting to see he doesn't have the time and inclination though --- just goes to show, when compared to organized Scientology, disorganized Scientology is so much less threatening to good people, thanks to lack of time and inclination!

 

[GreyWolf]

The problem is, the tech is imperfect also.

 

[Atalantan]

First of all there is no rank or title in the US Navy of "Chief Officer" - there is "Exec" or "First Lieutenant" which is the title that Moulton held.

There was nothing fictitious about the ship that Hubbard commanded. But once again some TBer comes through using the "argument from incredulity" in that he, Haydn, never bothered to actually research anything he was talking about.

The US Navy found that Hubbard was telling porkies. He was in incompetent commander who got overly excited and thought he was attacking a submarine.

The US Navy both then and since have never found any evidence of any Japanese submarines in the area - though of course a true blue TBer just thinks that is proof that the US Government was out to get Hubbard from the get go it doesn't actually explain why the Japanese government has no records of any submarines sent to the area and unaccounted for either. But Haydn is busy trotting out the opinion of someone who was already conned by Hubbard as some sort of "proof".

Haydn shows himself to be a gullible twat - well no real fault there, a lot of us were stupid and gullible enough to get into Scientology but, for crying out loud Haydn - did you not manage to regain anything approaching critical thinking when you got out?

I was in a motorcycle gang nearly 40 years ago and recently friends offered to drop everything and help me out on something - does that make me the savior of mankind - and if so could people send me loads of money??


No he did not "discover" that. It was suggested by that idiot Prouty but as Chris Owen successfully laid out - when did Hubbard have time for a double life in the US Navy? For example the famous brave assault on the magnetic anomaly - now whether one figures the US Navy was lying or not - the time is the important factor. Hubbards whereabouts from Boston, through school in Florida, to Bremerton to the assault and then on to the brilliant attack on the Mexican island are all documented - not just by the navy but also by other eye witnesses (like Moulton who Haydn was all lathered up about).

So how come Lenarcic and the other great "researchers" have no actual evidence?

This is like reading "twoofer twaffic".



Really?? So no actual record, just the relay of a conversation from someone who was desperately trying to prove that Hubbard was not the malingering little git his records says he was. The idea of "confirmation bias" seems to eb missing from any assessment..

And the big question that never gets addressed by any of these gullible twats is - why?

In 1942 Hubbard was a minor Sci-Fi writer who had some success in the pulps and probably had a future in the biz. he was also someone who had some abilities in sailing a small yacht.

Those are not exceptional abilities. They are fairly common.

Hubbard had a limited ability for college work, he was provenly incompetent at handling his own finances and he, for his time, had a questionable moral history. So what would the US Navy, at the outbreak of WW II, have in mind for him?

Why would the US navy and the US Government plan and run a cover operation for a war time operative - even after 40 years?

Why is it that these people just never ask themselves some fairly obvious questions?



wow! apparently this turtle has never heard of Freud, Jung, Pavlov, Skinner et al.

But what hubbardite EVER actually studies anything??

Well, I wonder if some posters on this board ever study anything, either. It's as easy as Google and Wikipedia.....

From Wikipedia:

Japanese operations
[edit] Bombardment of Ellwood

The United States mainland was first shelled by the Axis on February 23, 1942 when the Japanese submarine I-17 attacked the Ellwood Oil Field west of Goleta, near Santa Barbara, California. Although only a pumphouse and catwalk at one oil well were damaged, I-17 captain Nishino Kozo radioed Tokyo that he had left Santa Barbara in flames. No casualties were reported and the total cost of the damage was officially estimated at approximately $500–1,000.[1] News of the shelling triggered an invasion scare along the West Coast.[2]
[edit] Bombardment of Estevan Point lighthouse

On June 20, 1942, the Japanese submarine I-26, under the command of Yokota Minoru[3], fired 25-30 rounds of 5.5" shells at the Estevan Point lighthouse on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, but failed to hit its target.[4] This marked the first enemy shelling of Canadian soil since the War of 1812. Though no casualties were reported, the subsequent decision to turn off the lights of outer stations was disastrous for shipping activity.[5]
[edit] Bombardment of Fort Stevens
See also: Bombardment of Fort Stevens

In what became the only attack on a mainland American military installation during World War II, the Japanese submarine I-25, under the command of Tagami Meiji,[3] surfaced near the mouth of the Columbia River, Oregon on the night of June 21 and June 22, 1942, and fired shells toward Fort Stevens. The only damage officially recorded was to a baseball field's backstop. Probably the most significant damage was a shell that damaged some large phone cables. The Fort Stevens gunners were refused permission to return fire, since it would have helped the Japanese locate their target more accurately. American aircraft on training flights spotted the submarine, which was subsequently attacked by a US bomber, but it escaped.
[edit] Lookout Air Raid
Main article: Lookout Air Raid
Nobuo Fujita standing by his Yokosuka E14Y "Glen" seaplane.

The Lookout Air Raid occurred on September 9, 1942. The first and only aerial bombing of mainland America by a foreign power occurred when an attempt to start a forest fire was made by a Japanese Yokosuka E14Y1 seaplane dropping two 80 kg (180 lb) incendiary bombs over Mount Emily, near Brookings, Oregon. The seaplane, piloted by Nobuo Fujita, had been launched from the Japanese submarine aircraft carrier I-25. No significant damage was officially reported following the attack, nor after a repeat attempt on September 29.

Here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_North_America_during_World_War_II

 

[Veda]

Well, I wonder if some posters on this board ever study anything, either.

-snip-

There's an accompanying account by Hubbard regarding his practically single handedly saving the Australians from Japanese invasion. Perhaps, since you have a capacity for study that the rest of us lack, you could shed some light on this one.

In an 'Executive Letter' of 6 October 1965, Hubbard explained:

"In 1942, as a senior US Naval officer in Northern Australia by fluke of fate, I helped save them from the Japanese."

In the account told to Moulton, Hubbard had described how he had been fighting on the Japanese occupied island of Java, only to have been shot in the back by Japanese machine gun bullets. Somehow, eventually, he, and a few others, made it to Australia on a raft.

To Scientologists, Hubbard wrote, in a 17 February 1969 'Information Letter':

"Remember I know Anzo. I once had a big share in saving its bacon from Japan. Note please that a small Jap force could have taken the lot and didn't. A handful of us, months before the coming of US troops, worked like mad to balk the Japs and change their minds. So I know exactly how real the threat is [from what Hubbard called the 'Asiatic hordes' to the north]..."

Did L. Ron Hubbard really save the Australians from Japanese invasion? If so, isn't it about time that the Australians showed a little gratitude, and said, "Thank you Dr. Hubbard."

 

[Atalantan]

There's an accompanying account by Hubbard regarding his practically single handedly saving the Australians from Japanese invasion. Perhaps, since you have a capacity for study that the rest of us lack, you could shed some light on this one.

In an 'Executive Letter' of 6 October 1965, Hubbard explained:

"In 1942, as a senior US Naval officer in Northern Australia by fluke of fate, I helped save them from the Japanese."

In the account told to Moulton, Hubbard had described how he had been fighting on the Japanese occupied island of Java, only to have been shot in the back by Japanese machine gun bullets. Somehow, eventually, he, and a few others, made it to Australia on a raft.

To Scientologists, Hubbard wrote, in a 17 February 1969 'Information Letter':

"Remember I know Anzo. I once had a big share in saving its bacon from Japan. Note please that a small Jap force could have taken the lot and didn't. A handful of us, months before the coming of US troops, worked like mad to balk the Japs and change their minds. So I know exactly how real the threat is [from what Hubbard called the 'Asiatic hordes' to the north]..."

Did L. Ron Hubbard really save the Australians from Japanese invasion? If so, isn't it about time that the Australians showed a little gratitude, and said, "Thank you Dr. Hubbard."

Well, in the first place, I was responding to part of Mick's post:

"The US Navy both then and since have never found any evidence of any Japanese submarines in the area - though of course a true blue TBer just thinks that is proof that the US Government was out to get Hubbard from the get go it doesn't actually explain why the Japanese government has no records of any submarines sent to the area and unaccounted for either. But Haydn is busy trotting out the opinion of someone who was already conned by Hubbard as some sort of "proof"."

Pardon me, but someone didn't do their home work on that one, and told a "porky" right here on ESMB.

Apparently some posters here feel no-one has the right to call what they post into question?

Sorry I put your nose out of joint!

If you want to know about Hubbard and ANZO during the war, research it yourself.

I'm not the research assistant at your beck and call.

And in the 1940s, some people viewed Asians, particularly the Japanese, less than favorably, because they were seriously planning to extend their empire as far as they could and had in fact occupied many southeast asian countries like Burma (now Myanmar) and were in fact moving towards Australia.

They did attack the US in Hawaii, remember? And Wikipedia clearly shows the US mainland was also attacked.

After WWII ended and the Japanese surrendered, came the Korean war at the instigation of the Chinese and Soviet communists, a brutal affair which included captive Americans being subjected to North Korean brainwashing.

If you think these asian leaders had any goodwill towards the US, you are very much mistaken.

As for Hubbard's role in ANZO, I don't know that he had any at all. And I don't know that he didn't.

And I doubt that you know, either.

If you do know, dox and I will stand corrected.

 

[Outethicsofficer]

Well in the end does any of this matter? Many here made the decision get the hell out of the church, even it transpires Hubbard was doing what he said he did and fought the great fight and was truthful all along...I would still have nothing to do with it.

Anyone is able to be truthful at least once.

James

 

[Veda]

Well in the end does any of this matter? Many here made the decision get the hell out of the church, even it transpires Hubbard was doing what he said he did and fought the great fight and was truthful all along...I would still have nothing to do with it.

Anyone is able to be truthful at least once.

James

Hubbard was occasionally truthful. For example, although he saw no combat, he had briefly been in Australia, before being shipped back to the US, where he spent the rest of the war.

Does it matter that Hubbard lied extensively about his WW II experiences, and presented himself as a wounded hero when he was no such thing? It probably only matters to those who actually were heroes, or who actually were in combat, or the families of those who were heroes, or were in real combat. To them, fake heroes such as Hubbard, and their fraudulent tales, are a slap in the face.

But to Scientologists (or those with family members in Scientology) should it matter? Probably, only to the extent that Hubbard's behavior influenced the subject he fashioned and which continues today.

Here's an oft posted link and, if curious, go to the bottom link within it, and then, when in the PDF document, 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels', press 'control' and 'f', and do a find on the word riddle, or just go to page 10 and 11, under, 'A look at private tactics later shared with insiders'. http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105

 

[Veda]

Well, in the first place, I was responding to part of Mick's post:

"The US Navy both then and since have never found any evidence of any Japanese submarines in the area - though of course a true blue TBer just thinks that is proof that the US Government was out to get Hubbard from the get go it doesn't actually explain why the Japanese government has no records of any submarines sent to the area and unaccounted for either. But Haydn is busy trotting out the opinion of someone who was already conned by Hubbard as some sort of "proof"."

Pardon me, but someone didn't do their home work on that one, and told a "porky" right here on ESMB.

-snip-

A porky is a lie. I doubt that it was an intentional lie, so it wouldn't be a porky. However, if there was Japanese submarine activity off the west coast of North America during WWII, then to say there was not was inaccurate.

Go to 1:30 for a laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Dr...46E0CEB80&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=1

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Well, I wonder if some posters on this board ever study anything, either. It's as easy as Google and Wikipedia.....

Well apparently you have expanded the definition of "area to mean "west coast of America" and the time frame to include "whenever".

But you are indeed correct in pointing out that I did not restrict my descriptive comment to "May 19 1942" and "Cape Lookout" and maybe I should have.

My bad.

Please note, however, that I did not say that Japanese submarines had not been present on the West Coast of the USA during WW II.

But thanks for bringing forth the strawman argument.

From Wikipedia:

Japanese operations
[edit] Bombardment of Ellwood

The United States mainland was first shelled by the Axis on February 23, 1942 when the Japanese submarine I-17 attacked the Ellwood Oil Field west of Goleta, near Santa Barbara, California. Although only a pumphouse and catwalk at one oil well were damaged, I-17 captain Nishino Kozo radioed Tokyo that he had left Santa Barbara in flames. No casualties were reported and the total cost of the damage was officially estimated at approximately $500–1,000.[1] News of the shelling triggered an invasion scare along the West Coast.[2]
[edit] Bombardment of Estevan Point lighthouse

On June 20, 1942, the Japanese submarine I-26, under the command of Yokota Minoru[3], fired 25-30 rounds of 5.5" shells at the Estevan Point lighthouse on Vancouver Island in British Columbia, but failed to hit its target.[4] This marked the first enemy shelling of Canadian soil since the War of 1812. Though no casualties were reported, the subsequent decision to turn off the lights of outer stations was disastrous for shipping activity.[5]
[edit] Bombardment of Fort Stevens
See also: Bombardment of Fort Stevens

In what became the only attack on a mainland American military installation during World War II, the Japanese submarine I-25, under the command of Tagami Meiji,[3] surfaced near the mouth of the Columbia River, Oregon on the night of June 21 and June 22, 1942, and fired shells toward Fort Stevens. The only damage officially recorded was to a baseball field's backstop. Probably the most significant damage was a shell that damaged some large phone cables. The Fort Stevens gunners were refused permission to return fire, since it would have helped the Japanese locate their target more accurately. American aircraft on training flights spotted the submarine, which was subsequently attacked by a US bomber, but it escaped.
[edit] Lookout Air Raid
Main article: Lookout Air Raid
Nobuo Fujita standing by his Yokosuka E14Y "Glen" seaplane.

The Lookout Air Raid occurred on September 9, 1942. The first and only aerial bombing of mainland America by a foreign power occurred when an attempt to start a forest fire was made by a Japanese Yokosuka E14Y1 seaplane dropping two 80 kg (180 lb) incendiary bombs over Mount Emily, near Brookings, Oregon. The seaplane, piloted by Nobuo Fujita, had been launched from the Japanese submarine aircraft carrier I-25. No significant damage was officially reported following the attack, nor after a repeat attempt on September 29.

Here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_North_America_during_World_War_II

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Well, in the first place, I was responding to part of Mick's post:

"The US Navy both then and since have never found any evidence of any Japanese submarines in the area - though of course a true blue TBer just thinks that is proof that the US Government was out to get Hubbard from the get go it doesn't actually explain why the Japanese government has no records of any submarines sent to the area and unaccounted for either. But Haydn is busy trotting out the opinion of someone who was already conned by Hubbard as some sort of "proof"."

Pardon me, but someone didn't do their home work on that one, and told a "porky" right here on ESMB.

Actually someone did do his homework - but apparently you are unaware that Cape Lookout is not Santa Barbara, nor Vancouver Island nor even the Colombia River. I am surprised you did not manage to bring in the Aleutians and the Philippines to the argument.

Apparently some posters here feel no-one has the right to call what they post into question?

Well you were replying to me but this is addressed to a different poster and I had, up to this point, not answered you - so I am guessing that this is another strawman argument on your part then?

But to answer your question as if it were directed at me - the answer is yes, of course, go ahead and bring on the extra data and argue and expose holes. No problem from this end.

Sorry I put your nose out of joint!

Not sure that you did.

And in the 1940s, some people viewed Asians, particularly the Japanese, less than favorably, because they were seriously planning to extend their empire as far as they could and had in fact occupied many southeast asian countries like Burma (now Myanmar) and were in fact moving towards Australia.

Interesting point that has nothing to do with this thread. Not sure why you would bring it up other than a desperate attempt to throw rubbish around in the hope that no-one will notice that you didn't manage to rebut anything. As soon as you get started on posting something of relevance to the Hubbardian secret, confidential, non existent war records be sure to send up a flare of some kind so that I will be able to tell that you have stopped waffling.

They did attack the US in Hawaii, remember? And Wikipedia clearly shows the US mainland was also attacked.

and this relates - how? Did someone claim that the US was not attacked? If so please quote the part. Or do you just make up points out of thin air and start arguing against those (the definition of strawman argument BTW - you may wish to go read up on the subject, you seem to be very fond of it)

After WWII ended and the Japanese surrendered, came the Korean war at the instigation of the Chinese and Soviet communists, a brutal affair which included captive Americans being subjected to North Korean brainwashing.

If you think these asian leaders had any goodwill towards the US, you are very much mistaken.

Wow - and now you have dragged in the Korean war? Astounding. You do realize that the Chinese are not Koreans and not Japanese ?

And, again - how does this relate to the mediocre war record of Hubbard?

Or are you now trying to argue that this cabal of asians, instead of exposing the super agent Hubbard, carried on the lie in order to support their American enemies?

Wow. You have a career ahead of you consulting for the Twoofers.

As for Hubbard's role in ANZO, I don't know that he had any at all. And I don't know that he didn't.

And I doubt that you know, either.

If you do know, dox and I will stand corrected.

well here is a "doc" for you regarding Japanese submarines and the losses suffered by the Japanese Imperial Navy. You will note that, unless the Hubbardian cheerleaders now wish to invent a secret Japanese Navy - there is nothing for Hubbard to have sunk...

Argue against that.

In Hubbard's case, no vessel is recorded by either the British or American naval authorities as having been sunk off the West Coast of the United States at any time during the war. Almost every Japanese submarine was accounted for. Of the 130 Japanese submarines destroyed during World War II, the cause of destruction of only five was never determined, and of those, the location of only one remained unknown. 4 The files of the Imperial Japanese Navy also revealed that no submarines had been present off Oregon and only one submarine had lost in the whole of May 1943 - the RO.137, sunk by the USS SC-669 in the New Hebrides.

Indeed, there was no good reason why any Japanese submarines would have been in the Oregon area at the time. The US coast was near to the limits of their range and would have necessitated a long and extremely hazardous journey. When Hubbard fought his "battle" in May 1943, the Japanese Navy's main attention was on the battle for the Aleutians. Occupied by Japanese forces at the start of the war, the Aleutian islands of Attu and Kiska - administratively part of Alaska - were the only part of the United States to be have been occupied by the enemy. The Japanese submarine force was ordered to perform mogura or supply operations. It was a costly task, with three Japanese submarines destroyed in only two weeks. Ironically, one of these losses, the I.9, achieved the dubious distinction of being the only confirmed Japanese casualty of a PC-class subchaser - the PC-487, on June 6, 1943. One can imagine Hubbard's chagrin at hearing this news only a week after the conclusion of his own non-battle.

http://www.spaink.net/cos/warhero/battle.htm

 

[Alanzo]

Hubbard's lying about his war record is important because those lies were used to sell Dianetics and Scientology. He said that he was blinded and crippled during combat in WW2 and that he cured himself with Dianetics.

This is fraud, and I think one of the reasons Davey changed the Basic books from the old green books in the late 80's - every "About the Author" section in those green books contained those fraudulent lies, published and re-published for 36 years straight by LRH. This was a legal liability for the Church.

So it's not just a guy telling tall tales about himself.

It's a guy lying to get you to pay him 10's of thousands of dollars, or to sign a billion year contract to work for him for free.

 

[The Great Zorg]

The magazine 'Sea Classics' did a story on this a few years ago.
]http: / / findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4442/is_200601/ai_n16063418/?tag=rbxcra.2.a.55
http: / / findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4442/is_200608/ai_n17175927/?tag=rel.res1

The first website caused my anti-virus to show that it contains a virus.

Both sites have pro-scientology links.

Who are you, cakemaker?