LRH secret WO II record

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Has anyone thought for a minute that maybe the clams infiltrated the U.S. government war records, where ever they might be held, and altered or removed some of these records, if only to create a mystery as to why "so many records are missing"? After all, they did infiltrate U.S., Canadian and other nation's government offices to steal, destroy or malign information on $cio! :confused2:
 

Veda

Sponsor
From Scientology's confidential 'Covert Ops' course checklist:

"#87: Mock up an Ops situation where you'd want to use an altered or phony document... write out what steps you'd take to make this document more difficult to examine for authenticity.

"#88: Now produce such a document."

The difficulty in forging government documents is that it's usually illegal to do so, so the source of any forged document would need to hidden, but once put in place, slipped into a file, or mysteriously mailed by an anonymous person, it might be useful in PR. Usually, altered or phony documents that might appear in PR are quoted or, sometimes, photographed at a distance, "to make the document more difficult to examine for authenticity." If I recall correctly, the 'Ron the ______' series of coffee table picture books features a couple of these.

The "sheep dip" shore story used by Scientology, unsuccessfully, in the Armstrong vs Scientology case (and also used by Heber Jentzsch and Earle Cooley in the '60 minutes' video on this thread), is still used by Scientology, along with the all-purpose fall back argument of, "Ron, the unfathomable legend," and then there's always the "Look over there! Shiny!!!" locational process, and that old standard, sometimes used on annoying historians, "Come up to present time!" (This is one of Marty 'mincemeat' Rathbun's favorites).

Anyway, I don't think there's much mystery, except as created by Scientology to confuse and mislead people.

Here's Chris Owen's Ron The 'War Hero'. L. Ron Hubbard and the U.S. Navy, 1941-50:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/warhero/contents.htm
 
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FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Quoted from original post: "He was L Ron Hubbard’s Chief Officer from the “fictitious” sub chaser and relayed to me in detail how he had spent many hours, around 26 hours straight if memory serves me right, with Hubbard aboard that sub chaser fighting a number of Japanese subs threatening the west Coast of the USA, sinking at least one of them, and how the senior naval authorities poured cold water on and suppressed the reports of the incidents for their own reasons. He told me how he had stood beside Hubbard in the latrine and couldn’t help noticing that his commanding officer was pissing copious amounts of blood due to his injuries"

1. hubbard was running the ship. hubbard THOUGHT he was chasing Japanese subs - he wasn't. Read the Ron the War Hero, it explains exactly what he was "chasing". If I were a shipmate on that ship under hubbard, I might have thought it was real too.

2. hubbard was bleeding due to an STD he caught while abroad. Read the same....

This is all BS. He was a small man with big dreams who could tell fantastic stories.

That is all.
 
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Atalantan

Patron with Honors


OK.
Your quote above includes this, which apparently infers there were no Japanese subs off Oregon during the war. At least it gives that impression:


"Indeed, there was no good reason why any Japanese submarines would have been in the Oregon area at the time. The US coast was near to the limits of their range and would have necessitated a long and extremely hazardous journey. When Hubbard fought his "battle" in May 1943, the Japanese Navy's main attention was on the battle for the Aleutians. Occupied by Japanese forces at the start of the war, the Aleutian islands of Attu and Kiska - administratively part of Alaska - were the only part of the United States to be have been occupied by the enemy. The Japanese submarine force was ordered to perform mogura or supply operations. It was a costly task, with three Japanese submarines destroyed in only two weeks. Ironically, one of these losses, the I.9, achieved the dubious distinction of being the only confirmed Japanese casualty of a PC-class subchaser - the PC-487, on June 6, 1943. One can imagine Hubbard's chagrin at hearing this news only a week after the conclusion of his own non-battle."

This seems to be an opinion not to be consistent with the Wikipedia article excerpt below::

See also: Bombardment of Fort Stevens

In what became the only attack on a mainland American military installation during World War II, the Japanese submarine I-25, under the command of Tagami Meiji,[3] surfaced near the mouth of the Columbia River, Oregon on the night of June 21 and June 22, 1942, and fired shells toward Fort Stevens. The only damage officially recorded was to a baseball field's backstop. Probably the most significant damage was a shell that damaged some large phone cables. The Fort Stevens gunners were refused permission to return fire, since it would have helped the Japanese locate their target more accurately. American aircraft on training flights spotted the submarine, which was subsequently attacked by a US bomber, but it escaped.
 

Atalantan

Patron with Honors
Well in the end does any of this matter? Many here made the decision get the hell out of the church, even it transpires Hubbard was doing what he said he did and fought the great fight and was truthful all along...I would still have nothing to do with it.

Anyone is able to be truthful at least once.

James

I tend to agree. Almost 25 years after Hubbard died, it's still a hot topic?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Ron's bust is still in all the Orgs. Of course, the new Golden Showers of Tech evolution may replace them with Ron's Head shaped urinal mints...

Zinj
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
I tend to agree. Almost 25 years after Hubbard died, it's still a hot topic?

It meant a lot to me to find out his whole past was a lie. It was part of my unraveling the whole bundled up lies I was told about everything scientology.

Maybe it was my own personal history, but the whole LRH Life Exhibit was a big thing for me and all of PAC – of COURSE it was we were the local orgs right?

Learning about hubbard was as significant to me as learning about scientology. I was a very good culty. I loved those hubbard stories. Hell Jeannie Bogvad-Sonenfeld (spellings?) made it a big part of staff meetings to include hubbard stories from when she was on the ship – back when she was the CO LAD. She didn’t have a lot of them and handed those stories out like treasures. There was just this whole reverence when it came to anything about hubbard, especially his history.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
My Thoughts re: El Ron the War Hero

I am not a Vet. My father didn’t serve in WW II—he was blind in one eye and color blind in the other.

I had 3 Uncles in WW II—one was in combat. He was a tank commander in the 3rd Army. Twice he was the sole survivor when his tank was hit by a shell. He had scars on his chest, stomach and legs I never saw…only heard about. He had horrible nightmares until the day he died.

One of my closest childhood friend’s father was a Marine combat vet. He had deep scars on his face, neck, arms and a shattered leg from combat in Okinawa.

I had a 7th grade teacher that had scars on his face from combat at Inchon. When one of my classmates asked where he got the scars he sighed, cast his eyes downward and said, “Let’s just say I had an argument with a friend and I pray you never have to have one. That’s all you need to know.”

They all had “the look”—you knew not to ask them to tell you a “war story”.

I knew El Ron, personally. He did not have “the look”. In my naiveté I concluded he had “run it out” and, after all, he was El Ron. In my blind faith I thought El Ron “dealt with it” better than these three brave and good men.

Stupid...I'm so, so stupid.
 
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Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hubbard was occasionally truthful. For example, although he saw no combat, he had briefly been in Australia, before being shipped back to the US, where he spent the rest of the war.

Does it matter that Hubbard lied extensively about his WW II experiences, and presented himself as a wounded hero when he was no such thing? It probably only matters to those who actually were heroes, or who actually were in combat, or the families of those who were heroes, or were in real combat. To them, fake heroes such as Hubbard, and their fraudulent tales, are a slap in the face.

But to Scientologists (or those with family members in Scientology) should it matter? Probably, only to the extent that Hubbard's behavior influenced the subject he fashioned and which continues today.

Here's an oft posted link and, if curious, go to the bottom link within it, and then, when in the PDF document, 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels', press 'control' and 'f', and do a find on the word riddle, or just go to page 10 and 11, under, 'A look at private tactics later shared with insiders'. http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105

When I got to look up LRH's death cert and discovered the condition of the body at the time of death I knew then I'd been duped. The supposed 'clear' of all 'clears' had body conditions...f**k me.

Yes it has been helpful to know more about LRH and the church...my point is Hubbard never achieved the stated aims of Dianetics not even on a personal level then. So are far as I am concerned even if his war record proves to be factual and just as he stated. One of the most pivotal books written by him as far as introducing one to the bridge...doesn't work. It is a lie.

James
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
When I got to look up LRH's death cert and discovered the condition of the body at the time of death I knew then I'd been duped. The supposed 'clear' of all 'clears' had body conditions...f**k me.

I had the very same reaction 3 years ago when I was brave enough to go to A.R.S. and start reading. I read about OT III and worried for days that I would die. Then I read his autopsy. CHRONIC PANCREATITIS? Chronic allergies? 2 inch fingernails? Overweight and unkempt? Multiple strokes, for years??? Finally my gnawing gut reaction turned into a sledgehammer awakening: IT'S ALL A LIE (or most of it)!!! It's all a con! (ALL of it)!! The war stories, the so called hero! hubbard's clamhood history - everything!!! I've been the fool of fools, duped beyond embarrassment! f**k me!!! That ASSHOLE!!! That CREEP! That fucking con artist! LIAR! LIAR! FUCK!!

Phew!... still some anger and resentment there!

That fucking ugly goofy asshole!

I'm gonna stop now...
 

freethinker

Sponsor
As far as i'm concerned it's just a little too convenient for the 70 year old friend of Ron's wo was so close he could see him piss blood, to show up at such an oportune time to set the record straight.

I mean CUT THE SHIT. the man was never a saint and I don't believe he gave a crap about anyone. IMO the story is bullshit!
Over at MR blog there is talk of a second secret war record that conveniently popped up when Andy Lenarcic was doing research that matched LRH claims. Who was involved in this ?

Although records are good I wonder if people have first or second hand knowledge about this.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I don't think they went that far.

DM probably had them made in house. After all he only had to fool the people who already believed LRH was a god.
Has anyone thought for a minute that maybe the clams infiltrated the U.S. government war records, where ever they might be held, and altered or removed some of these records, if only to create a mystery as to why "so many records are missing"? After all, they did infiltrate U.S., Canadian and other nation's government offices to steal, destroy or malign information on $cio! :confused2:
 

ccas

Patron
The tech works! The fact that for a second you believe that Ron has two war records is the evidence. You deserve LRH, DM and then MR ...

Pick up any scilon press release anytime. It's full of "facts" that cannot be verified. To consider the words of a single non-collaborated witness with dubious background, against numerous unchallenged official archives, what can I say - the tech works! Ron lives on!
 

UmbalumTeapot

Patron with Honors
Sums it up.

It's no wonder that the lying con-artist got away with his scam, and that the scam continues today, when there are people on this planet who are so unbelievably mentally sub-normal. If Hubbard had written that the Earth was flat and it rested on the left flipper of a giant dolphin they would believe him.

The tech works! The fact that for a second you believe that Ron has two war records is the evidence. You deserve LRH, DM and then MR ...

Pick up any scilon press release anytime. It's full of "facts" that cannot be verified. To consider the words of a single non-collaborated witness with dubious background, against numerous unchallenged official archives, what can I say - the tech works! Ron lives on!
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sums it up.It's no wonder that the lying con-artist got away with his scam, and that the scam continues today, when there are people on this planet who are so unbelievably mentally sub-normal. If Hubbard had written that the Earth was flat and it rested on the left flipper of a giant dolphin they would believe him.

:lol:

I'm with you on all that! This planet seems to be populated with a strange species of humanoids that are capable of anything, from almost god-like creations, inventions and abilities to the most stupid, dumb-assed brain damaged behavior. What a swing! Sadly, it seems that our elected officials, the ones we count on to do things like stop the criminal cult of $cientology, usually fall into the latter category, to some degree, and mainly because they are just playing politics.

POLITICS (from the TGZ dictionary): v. "Making people believe that you are giving them what they want in order to get re-elected and remain employed."
 

Veda

Sponsor
I don't know about this, I heard he was 6-foot-2 and fat.

L. Ron Hubbard Jr. was about 5 foot 11, and Plate 5 shows him standing with his father, who seems to have been about 6 foot. Although there are accounts of Hubbard varying in size by some Scientologists, who usually attribute this size variation to OT abilities. More likely the variation was caused by the heels of his shoes, or by lifts, which, by some accounts, he would use to make himself taller. Scientologists like to see their spiritual leader as a towering figure, small at the waist and wide at the shoulders:

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/photos.htm

Some more info, by way of historian Chris Owen, on the topic of Scientology forging documents re. Hubbard's less than illustrious military career:

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/hubnavy.htm

Chris Owen has also modified slightly his views of the 'Russian Brainwashing Manual', stating:

"Regarding the Brainwashing Manual, there is fairly strong evidence that it was concocted by L. Ron Hubbard. I haven't yet definitely determined why, but it's clear that he passed it along to others."

See last paragraph:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=1799&postcount=4

Amongst these others were government agencies, and also right-wing political groups.

Which, for what it's worth, amusingly and someone bizarrely, brings us to the latest edition of the big glossy Scientology promo magazine 'Scientology News', 'The L. Ron Hubbard Birthday Celebration 2010'. In it is an article titled, 'LRH, The untold story of Scientology organizations', which has Scientology further "creatively" re-writing history, and even features a picture of the 'Russian Brainwashing Manual' with a new tale of how right-wing activist Kenneth Goff (who copied and slightly revised Hubbard's 1955 "Manual" in his 1956 version) was actually the originator of the English translation of the German language manual, which had previously been translated from Russian. (!)

Does the inability of Scientology to stop mirroring its founder, and simply stop lying, have any relevance to those interested in or, in some fashion, touched by Scientology?

Some Scientology apologists suggest, when encountering "critics," that, since "Hubbard is dead," all echoes of Hubbard, including his alter-ego, the "Church of Scientology," and related entities, should be ignored by those "critics."
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Okay, I just read all that and I'm still clueless.

Is there really another "declassified" record that backs up Hubbard's heavily embroidered claims?

If he really was "under cover", why did his "public" record make him out to be such a klutz? I guess that explains where Mel Brooks and Buck Henry got the idea to create Get Smart!
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hubbard's lying about his war record is important because those lies were used to sell Dianetics and Scientology. He said that he was blinded and crippled during combat in WW2 and that he cured himself with Dianetics.

This is fraud, and I think one of the reasons Davey changed the Basic books from the old green books in the late 80's - every "About the Author" section in those green books contained those fraudulent lies, published and re-published for 36 years straight by LRH. This was a legal liability for the Church.

So it's not just a guy telling tall tales about himself.

It's a guy lying to get you to pay him 10's of thousands of dollars, or to sign a billion year contract to work for him for free.

Dear alanzo,

it is all the stenographers fault!!

And you jsut better rememebr this ol' buddy ol' pal...

Hubbard was indeed crippled and blinded and there he was wlaking along the road and he saw the big boots in the sky, which is pretty damn good considering he could walk when he was crippled and he could see when he was blind. Not many crippled and blind can do that. As a matter of fact it is on record that Hubbard is the only blind and crippled person ever in existence who could se and wlk while being blind and crippled...

Anyway he sayw the big boots in the sky and he had to go put them on and then he pulled himelsf up by the bootstraps.

Whatta buncha crock, eh?

Rd00
 
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