Ls and the advantage of being exterior?

[renegade]

I knew a lot of scn who wanted to do the Ls and paid dearly for it.

What are the advantages of being exterior? What did they think was it would do for them?

 

[Dulloldfart]

I knew a lot of scn who wanted to do the Ls and paid dearly for it.

What are the advantages of being exterior? What did they think was it would do for them?

When I was a relatively green Scio I thought of being "exterior with full perception" in terms of watching girls in the shower or becoming a millionaire by finding new oil deposits or buried treasure etc. Or doing Ingo Swann-type visits to other planets only better.

I could imagine far more dignified reasons.

Paul

 

[renegade]

Ok, that's when relatively green or a new scio.

Normally green scios do not want to do the Ls and think it's ridiculously expensive.

I wonder about people NOT in their bodies and in control of it as being bad. I knew a guy who seemed like he wasn't there in his body and he had a lot of health issues.

Is being exterior and running your body similar to the robot in the movie Titanic? If so, how is that desirable?

 

[Gib]

I knew a lot of scn who wanted to do the Ls and paid dearly for it.

What are the advantages of being exterior? What did they think was it would do for them?

That is scientology and all it's glorious hyped to the max advertising of EP's.

One gets to imagine (mock-up in ones mind) what one can do being exterior. Hubbard never promised what one can do being exterior, but suggested it thru his many lectures and books of being an OT, he told many stories.

And he said only a group of OT's - which means the individuals in the group agree, or view that as reality= agreement.

 

[PTS]

The problem with $cientology, aside from the crimes and corruption of course, is that it attempts to be a one size fits all formula for enlightenment. Very few people will have an identical path. Ron may well have found a perfectly sensible path for himself but in no way does that mean it will fit me, or anyone else for that matter. So "going exterior" as scilons call it, or astral travel, or out of body experiences, or whatever words fit for you, only works if doing such a thing makes sense to you on your own path. Thus I view the L's, really the entire bridge, as a prepackaged formula for failure. The only way to find your path is to start walking. You won't get there following anyone else.

in my own journey, I sometimes separate from the reality I normally perceive, and therein discover new things about myself and the worlds around me. Often I perceive other beings, consciousnesses really, in this exercise. I feel my consciousness touching that of beings I only know in this place of separation from my physical body. It is as comforting as a maternal hug for me. Whether it's just a mental trick or something else I do not know. It is a thing as individual as I am and an intensely meaningful validation of my place in the ocean of consciousness.

As with all things, your mileage may vary, as it should.

 

[Orglodyte]

Is being exterior and running your body similar to the robot in the movie Titanic? If so, how is that desirable?

I had two out-of-body experiences in my early days, on TRs, and they were intensely pleasurable. The idea of feeling that way all the time did help keep me in.

Of course I had fantasies like Paul did. In my out-of-body experiences, I simply felt bigger than my body, and had a remarkable sense of well-being. But a Cleared Theta Clear was matter-of-factly described as being able to manipulate the physical universe without a body, and that would be useful in a billion ways. Imagine being able to drop in on behind-the-scenes political meetings and find out what was really going on. You could be a crimestopping superhero par excellence, win at gambling (just a little at a time, of course, so the casinos wouldn't kick you out) and use the money to do good. You could excel at any sport, any business, the arts, change the world.

These extrapolations also contributed to my exit. Like, um, why is Ron so worried about nuclear war? Why doesn't he just exteriorize, defuse all the bombs and be done with it? And why weren't all the OTs rich from gambling? What would be unethical about nicking a bit from the mob to save the Galaxy? That sort of thinking led me eventually to realizing that Scn must not work as advertised. If I could do it, I would change the world, and the world was not changing.

 

[Gib]

I had two out-of-body experiences in my early days, on TRs, and they were intensely pleasurable. The idea of feeling that way all the time did help keep me in.

Of course I had fantasies like Paul did. In my out-of-body experiences, I simply felt bigger than my body, and had a remarkable sense of well-being. But a Cleared Theta Clear was matter-of-factly described as being able to manipulate the physical universe without a body, and that would be useful in a billion ways. Imagine being able to drop in on behind-the-scenes political meetings and find out what was really going on. You could be a crimestopping superhero par excellence, win at gambling (just a little at a time, of course, so the casinos wouldn't kick you out) and use the money to do good. You could excel at any sport, any business, the arts, change the world.

These extrapolations also contributed to my exit. Like, um, why is Ron so worried about nuclear war? Why doesn't he just exteriorize, defuse all the bombs and be done with it? And why weren't all the OTs rich from gambling? What would be unethical about nicking a bit from the mob to save the Galaxy? That sort of thinking led me eventually to realizing that Scn must not work as advertised. If I could do it, I would change the world, and the world was not changing.

true dat. Lot's of questions, but no proof ever. It was all mocked-up.

 

[programmer_guy]

I had two out-of-body experiences in my early days, on TRs, and they were intensely pleasurable. The idea of feeling that way all the time did help keep me in.

Of course I had fantasies like Paul did. In my out-of-body experiences, I simply felt bigger than my body, and had a remarkable sense of well-being. But a Cleared Theta Clear was matter-of-factly described as being able to manipulate the physical universe without a body, and that would be useful in a billion ways. Imagine being able to drop in on behind-the-scenes political meetings and find out what was really going on. You could be a crimestopping superhero par excellence, win at gambling (just a little at a time, of course, so the casinos wouldn't kick you out) and use the money to do good. You could excel at any sport, any business, the arts, change the world.

These extrapolations also contributed to my exit. Like, um, why is Ron so worried about nuclear war? Why doesn't he just exteriorize, defuse all the bombs and be done with it? And why weren't all the OTs rich from gambling? What would be unethical about nicking a bit from the mob to save the Galaxy? That sort of thinking led me eventually to realizing that Scn must not work as advertised. If I could do it, I would change the world, and the world was not changing.

Yeah, I had had numerous occasions of "going exterior" as you describe (mostly during my involvement in SCN).
Mine was a sensation sort of like having a third eye above and behind my head.
It's an illusion.

 

[renegade]

Yeah, I had had numerous occasions of "going exterior" as you describe (mostly during my involvement in SCN).
Mine was a sensation sort of like having a third eye above and behind my head.
It's an illusion.

Is that advantages? Would you want to feel that all the time?

 

[programmer_guy]

Is that advantages? Would you want to fell that all the time?

As I said, it's an illusion.

Would you want to be deluded even if it made you feel good for a little while?
I choose, "No".

If that is your only criterion then why not just snort cocaine instead?

 

[renegade]

Do you feel some do the Ls for the status?

I know some people who brag that they'd done the Ls. It held a kind of status at our org regardless of actual abilities exhibited.

 

[programmer_guy]

Do you feel some do the Ls for the status?

I know some people who brag that they'd done the Ls. It held a kind of status at our org regardless of actual abilities exhibited.

I haven't met, or read posts by, anyone who seemed initially to do it for the "status" before doing it.
(Others can correct me if I am wrong).
But I have seen posts from some freezoners who seemed to think they have a superior status just because they did, for example, OTIII. (There is at least one particular one, that stopped posting here awhile back, that I will refrain from naming.)

Yes, it does happen (I don't know how much or how many).

 

[Student of Trinity]

If I could do it, I would change the world, and the world was not changing.

I was fortunate enough that I only really encountered Scientology after it had already existed for enough decades to have changed the world, if it was really able to do that. So I didn't even have to darken the door of any Org, to draw this same conclusion: the superpowers could not be real, because if they were, I would already have seen their effects, as lead stories on network news.

Scientology needs to promise superpowers, in my opinion, because without them, its offerings are just too unimpressive. Do ex-Scientologists who retain some respect for Scientology really accept that the powers aren't there at all? I often wonder. It must be tempting to keep a little hope alive.

 

[CO2]

I knew a lot of scn who wanted to do the Ls and paid dearly for it.

[video=youtube;4-jsqZQ4OOY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jsqZQ4OOY[/video]

What are the advantages of being exterior?

[video=youtube;u70qV-6QRuQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u70qV-6QRuQ[/video]


What did they think was it would do for them?

[video=youtube;3IkNBlOYijI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IkNBlOYijI[/video]

To begin with, I think I was gone from the Co$ before the Ls came out.

However knowing the mindset, what was promised, was never what was delivered, or at least, not deliberately. All Scientologists know deep down that nothing promised, is delivered.

The advantages of being exterior you can find by reading up on NON SCIENTOLOGISTS' works. I suggest a Playboy interview in the early 70s with Jackie Stewart, a race car driver. John Brodie's book (I've forgotten the name - he was involved with Scientology at the time of the book) early 1970s also. Michael Murphy of Esalen, in the 1970s was doing research on the subject. I presume something got published, but I don't know that for a fact.

It (the answer) boils down to athletes can slow down time, can perceive intentions, and can act accordingly with lightning reflexes.

The above is NOT a Scientology answer. It was the basic conclusion of Michael Murphy's research. He talked with Scientologists along with many other athletes. He was not a Scientologist. I don't even know if he is still alive.

 

[Dulloldfart]

The above is NOT a Scientology answer. It was the basic conclusion of Michael Murphy's research. He talked with Scientologists along with many other athletes. He was not a Scientologist. I don't even know if he is still alive.

I read his "The Future of the Body" back in 2005. Wonderful book, although just above my comfortable reading level and a strain all the way through (thick book too). I used his data to tweak my very unfinished "Chart of Possible Abilities to be Gained and Where They Might be Obtained" at http://fzglobal.org/possabilities.htm [sic].

Paul

 

[Student of Trinity]

It (the answer) boils down to athletes can slow down time, can perceive intentions, and can act accordingly with lightning reflexes.

Humans normally operate well below the physical limits of the brain and body. Things mostly happen in the brain on time scales in milliseconds, so "split-second reaction" is about as good as humans can do; but on the other hand the brain seems to be able to run a lot of processes simultaneously. "Perceiving intentions," for example, would seem to be a pattern-recognition task, whereby one human's brain recognizes the patterns of position and motion in another human's body. Trained, talented athletes can definitely do amazing things. It seems pretty clear, however, that there is a solid ceiling to human performance. Improvement doesn't scale indefinitely.

 

[iHateDuplicity]

The only time I went exterior and absolutely knew that I was seeing myself outside of my body was when I was a child, years before I ever got involved with Cof$. No one is going to tell me it was an illusion - it was one of the most powerful and certain memories I have from when I was young. I didn't get involved with Cof$ to have that happen again specifically, but I was sure surprised through all the years of auditing that it never did happen again. I would often wonder why.

Hubbard makes so many convoluted and conflicting statements about the subject of exteriorization that there really is no reason to listen to anything he has to say on the subject. It's literally boiled down to "if you say you are exterior, you are exterior" and that is all there is to it. In fact, the EP of L12 is itself contrary to Hubbard's talks about this on the SHSBC where he says that there is nothing really to be gained by getting someone exterior because that is not how you resolve a case or clear someone, it's a very uncertain/unstable condition and they never maintain it permanently.

To answer the OP though, the whole point of wanting to be stably exterior is:

(a) achieving 100% certainty that you are not a body;
(b) not having undue attention on the body anymore because you can operate "senior" to it;
(c) perhaps (implied but not promised) you would be able to adjust body flows or whatever so you could fix body problems;
(d) maintain an "OT" viewpoint about everything going on around you so you could stay relatively serene and calm in even the weirdest or wildest situations (something many people seem to want, especially in Cof$);
(e) not going to the "effect" of other people trying to squash or suppress you because you are literally "exterior" to their efforts to squash you.​

Those are the advantages I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

The only time I went exterior and absolutely knew that I was seeing myself outside of my body was when I was a child, years before I ever got involved with Cof$.

Same for me. I remember walking to school (or perhaps I really should say my body was walking to school) and I jumped out and looked at myself (my body) and thought the whole situation was pathetic. I could see my life was NOT going in the direction I wanted it to.

Perhaps exteriorization is easier for kids than for older folk.

Hubbard makes so many convoluted and conflicting statements about the subject of exteriorization that there really is no reason to listen to anything he has to say on the subject. It's literally boiled down to "if you say you are exterior, you are exterior" and that is all there is to it.

What I hate are the following WTFs:

(1) Saying exteriorization is easy; that interiorizing is the hard part.

(2) Comparing exteriorization to havingness as if one is the opposite of the other.

(3) Trying to talk about exteriorization and having someone change the topic to exterior with perception.

But once I went whole track in session, I knew then I wasn't a body. I didn't need exteriorization to convince me of that.

Helena

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

When I was a relatively green Scio I thought of being "exterior with full perception" in terms of watching girls in the shower or becoming a millionaire by finding new oil deposits or buried treasure etc. Or doing Ingo Swann-type visits to other planets only better.

I could imagine far more dignified reasons.

Paul

I was more interested in the fascinating OT Powers people write about in Advance! Magazine, such has having the ability to find a parking spot in an empty parking lot.

 

[OhMG]

I knew a lot of scn who wanted to do the Ls and paid dearly for it.

What are the advantages of being exterior? What did they think was it would do for them?

You REALLY can't think of some HUGE advantages to operating without being tethered to your body and having full perceptions while doing so? R E A L L Y ?