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Luis and Rocio Garcia fraud lawsuit - new thread - Feb 2015 events

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
More discussion:

Michael Leonard Tilse t1kk • 2 hours ago

My read is this: At issue is a contract which requires arbitration. No evidence that any such arbitration has ever occurred pursuant to the contract under question or similar contracts with the church of scientology signed by others. No evidence has been presented that there is even a mechanism, procedure or personnel designated for arbitrations. Therefore, the contract is fraudulent on it's face because there is simply no way an arbitration can occur, regardless of it's fairness.

This completely sidesteps the first amendment issues, and can be simply ruled on, on the basis of a benefit that was part of the represented contractual obligation was a fiction.

ETA: Part of the benefit of the contract is the promise of recourse if there is breach of the contract or other issues. When the Garcia's paid their money and signed these contracts, in exchange they got the benefit of the Chult using their money to make a part of the Chult building, I.E., the cross, and they were sold on the basis that they were the only ones who were paying for it and were paying for the whole thing. If other people were similarly sold on the idea that they were paying for the same cross, also exclusively, then the Chult was selling the same apple twice. That is a fraudulent representation to the Garcia's. If part of the contracts the Garcia's have signed specify that they must go to arbitration over any disagreements or refunds, yet arbitration does not in fact exist, the Chult has defrauded the of the one of the benefits of the contracts. That also makes it fraud.
http://tonyortega.org/2015/02/19/hb...coveted-spot-sunday-night/#comment-1865098832

1subgenius • 12 hours ago

"Cartwright then spoke up: Actually, it was five days, not six days.

That made Whittemore very curious — how did he know?"

Judge is paying attention.
And leave it to a Scientologist to think there's a tinker's dam difference between 5 and 6 days regarding evidence fabricated after the fact.
http://tonyortega.org/2015/02/19/hb...coveted-spot-sunday-night/#comment-1864227566

Lurkness Once_Born • 4 hours ago

Babbitt decided not to call Rinder. Perhaps a wise choice given how the court received the testimony Pope offered that was designed to counter Rinder--on the non-issue of who actually wrote the enrollment agreement's arbitration provision.

I don't know all the facts, but I still have an uneasy feeling that Babbitt didn't fully exploit all that Rinder may have known about the intent in creating the putative arbitration process , i.e. it was a sham and never intended to actually be used. Maybe he didn't have more to offer (we only have the defendant's deposition of Rinder to read). If all Babbitt was going to use Rinder for was to further comment about how SPs could not receive a fair arbitration process, he was wise not to call him.

I would have thought he would call Rinder to bolster his previous declaration. His sworn declaration here: http://tonyortega.org/2014/10/...
Given how Scientology changes the enrollment agreement in response to litigation losses and other problems, I have always presumed there was more there (e.g., internal discussions/orders to fix the refund problem).

The court has been pretty clear in his orders since 2013 that he had concerns that there was actually an arbitration procedure, not issues of the fairness of a purported process.

While Scientology moved to strike Rinder's declaration and that was denied, it is presumably in evidence and useable by the Court. However, the court could not make a credibility finding (harder to reverse) and credit Rinder's possible testimony that there was not an actual arbitration process, just a written provision, and it was always intended to be a sham to avoid making refunds and repayments.

Still also not clear to me how the court is parsing the overall fraud allegations relative to Scientology's motion to compel arbitration. Personally think the fraud allegations should trump the unconscionable enrollment agreement (contract) and its fictional arbitration process.
http://tonyortega.org/2015/02/19/hb...coveted-spot-sunday-night/#comment-1865009899

(That's all the wading I can deal with.)
 
More discussion:
Lurkness Once_Born • 4 hours ago snip! The court has been pretty clear in his orders since 2013 that he had concerns that there was actually an arbitration procedure, not issues of the fairness of a purported process
snip!
(That's all the wading I can deal with.)

See, that's where I think that Babbit shot at the wrong target - I think the Judge was looking for a sound legal argument that would clarify why Scientology's arbitration, or attempt to use a com ev as one, was fraud, and outside the religious exemption. Babbitt having witnesses testify how people were hurt by being declared was completely a waste of his time and miles off target. He wanted that and only that, and why Babbitt didn't understand it is beyond me.

Me and thee all know it's a fraud, but the judge has other pitfalls to avoid. He wants to hit the nail on the head on this one point, so it will withstand endless appeals: Is there a valid arbitration procedure in Scientology or is there not one, and if there isn't a valid arbitration, how does it stand up to the religious exemption? Can they use a com ev as an arbitration, if it doesn't satisfy the definition of an arbitration? He's out there on thin ice, and he wants them to throw him a rope.

Mimsey

Walking_On_Thin_Ice_by_X_ample.jpg
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Re: GARCIA FRAUD CASE ENDED AS JUDGE GRANTS SCIENTOLOGY ARBITRATION MOTION

Sad news...
GARCIA FRAUD CASE ENDED AS JUDGE GRANTS SCIENTOLOGY ARBITRATION MOTION
http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...-judge-grants-scientology-arbitration-motion/

Hope they can and will appeal

I almost clicked Dislike on your post, but then I remembered: Hate the message, not the messenger.

So now what?

Which options do the Garcias have?
Appeal? Go through an arbitration process designed by a fraudulent cult?
Anything else?

Which options does the state have?
Fix that obviously broken constitution that allows and supports "religious" fraudsters?
Separate church and state properly?
Fix the IRS who is responsible for the cult being allowed to call itself a church?
Anything else?
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
Re: GARCIA FRAUD CASE ENDED AS JUDGE GRANTS SCIENTOLOGY ARBITRATION MOTION

Fuck America. :angry:
(You don't want to know what savage shit I just deleted!!! I guess I could be a vicious CT loony if I ever felt the urge!)
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Shit. :sad:

Can the Garcias appeal to a higher court? If so, will they appeal?

The idea that there can exist arbitration made up entirely of members prejudiced in favour of their group, that are trained to view anyone who criticises their group as an enemy, when the Garcias are no longer members just blows my mind. This can't really be happening. America, what's going on?
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Unbelievable! This is such a farce that words fail me.

From Tony Ortega: http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...-judge-grants-scientology-arbitration-motion/

Once again, Scientology’s powerful First Amendment protections as a “church” came into play as Whittemore said his hands were tied as far as considering the Garcias’ contention that they could never get a fair arbitration from Scientology, which requires that such a dispute be heard by a three-person panel made up of Scientologists in good standing.

By Scientology policy and longstanding culture, such panelists could never fairly arbitrate a matter brought by two “Suppressive Persons” as the Garcias are — Scientology jargon for anyone who has left or been expelled.

“As compelling as Plaintiffs’ argument might otherwise be, the First Amendment prohibits consideration of this contention, since it necessarily would require an analysis and interpretation of Scientology doctrine. That would constitute a prohibited intrusion into religious doctrine, discipline, faith, and ecclesiastical rule, custom, or law by the court.”

So, even though Scientology’s arbitration rules are probably a sham (as former top executives had testified), and are unlikely to be fair for two former “SP’s,” Scientology’s protections of the First Amendment once again prove too much for the US civil courts or law enforcement — a key concept in the movie Going Clear, which happens to be opening in theaters today.

Tony Ortega Mod • 4 hours ago

For those struggling to understand, this is a stone cold LOSS. The Garcias are not going to bother with going through Scientology's "arbitration," which doesn't actually exist, and Whittemore knew it.

Will they appeal and throw a bunch of more money after all that they've already spent after two years of litigating? I'll try to find out, but don't be surprised if they say no.

This is Scientology using the First Amendment to escape criminal fraud because the US courts are crippled by the "church" exemption. It is a total victory for Scientology. Please try to keep up. http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1905903531



J. Swift • 3 hours ago

What I have been emphasizing at the Scientology Money Project -- and what needs significant media coverage -- is the malicious, deceptive, and unconscionable series of series of contracts used by the Church of Scientology to cripple its own members. The intake system of Scientology consists of a series of four contracts by which Scientologists sign away all of their legal rights and civil remedies in favor of the Church. These four contracts are the Portal to Hell into Scientology -- and the contracts get worse the further a person gets in, e.g. OT's sign a bond to pay $100,000 per occurrence if they discuss they OT's levels with anyone outside of session. See OT Bond: http://scientologymoneyproject...

How Scientology Inc. Legally Cripples Its Own Members: The Four Unconscionable Contracts: http://scientologymoneyproject...

For me, the Church of Scientology has always been an analog of Nigerian 419 scammers with this exception: Scientology operates in America with 501(c)(3) protections. Thus, Scientology's advanced fee fraud and sleazy contracts are legal, i.e. it is not illegal in America to give all of your money away to con artists who have religious status. It is not illegal to sign sleazy contracts with a cult.

Anyone who signs any contract with the Church of Scientology is royally screwed. Might as well take your money and light it on fire -- and this while agreeing to permit the Church to make your life a protracted nightmarish hell.

Three facts here to keep in mind:

* The Church of Scientology is a 501(c)(3) and so it can and must be held to strict 501(c)(3) standards. Any deviation from "acting in the public interest" can be documented and reported to the IRS, the FBI, and other agencies. Vigilance is the watchword.

* The Church of Scientology is inherently self-destructive so more legal cases and legal problems are guaranteed.

* Captain David Miscavige is in charge and this fact alone guarantees problems.

*****
I salute the Garcia's for taking action against the crime syndicate.
http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1905977796
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
A little collection of some comments I like. :punch:


Zana said:
My first take on this is to fear our United States justice system. That the Co$ should be able to get away with this. That a terrorist group should be able to weasel through the court system with such blatant lies and aggressiveness and make a mockery of all of us. We, the taxpayers, are paying not only for the church and all the Sea Org medical expenses and abortions, but also these legal proceedings. Thank goodness that Going Clear is now pointing it out to regular citizens.


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1906069912


beauty for ashes said:
Can I just say, I hate you Florida? Ever since I moved here I am continually shocked by your permissiveness. From your Pam Bondis, to your pain clinic industry, and your blatant neglect of your responsibilities to the health and welfare of your citizens and disabled, lack of resources for abused women, your high percentage of sex offenders . Your corrupt policies, judges, and government. You're a joke Florida...... without a punch line.
A couple walks into a court, and says,
"Your Honor, this church has defrauded me, they asked me for money for something they already collected, I believed them and gave them the money. I found out they were lying, and I asked for my money back.
I found out they were lying about so many things. I lost my faith and left the church. Now I ask for my money back, the money they collected based on the lie, the fraud. They sent me into a hall of mirrors called "internal arbitration".
I can prove to you by the people who help create this "internal arbitration", that it was never intended to work. It is another fraud. I come to you at great personal risk. I could be ruined by this. But I am not the only person ruined and deceived by this church. I ask you to help me stand up, not just for myself, but for all victims of this scheme. Don't let this fraud perpetuate."
The judge says, "............."


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1906043712


EnthralledObserver said:
Wow - this is bullshit. The US law has boxed itself in to allow criminals to do precisely what they please, and harm as many as they want, so long as they just use the right words before doing it. Pathetic!


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1906038684

Captain MustSavage said:
That's how I see it, EO. I wouldn't be surprised if Islam began to run with its Sharia law. It's exacly the same principle as what scientology is doing with impunity. Another amendment needs to limit or set boundaries around the freedoms religions enjoy so that at minimum they are obeying the law of the land.


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1906045923

sam said:
Today is a shameful day to be an American. Fuck this joke of a judicial system, and fuck this country's cloying, fawning, disgusting supplication to all things deemed religious. Sick.


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1905945735

Captain MustSavage said:
I hate to agree. The founding fathers envisioned a future where the government could stifle people's right to religious freedom, but not religion's ability to stifle individuals freedoms, it seems. There needs to be another amendment people!


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1905950189

TheHoleDoesNotExist said:
Justice must be related to Tom Cruise then. Neither are ever going to show up.

At this moment, in another lawsuit in another state, in some clerks office and computer logs are the statements put on record by scientology' lawyers that stalking and harassing women when they're alone at night is one of scientology's sacraments and ecclesiastical rights.

I want you all to let this sink in. Scientology is setting up Mosey Rathbun's case to play this First Amendment Religious Card right from the start. And now they can use the Garcia case as another reference. This is more than a major loss. This is an American nightmare.


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1906095085


mockingbird said:
What a kick in the nuts. By a three hundred pound guy . With steel toe work boots on . When I did not see him coming . Well ,what I know about the law is not enough to fill a thimble . But I think the tax exemption in the US is the big target . That cloaks many,many crimes , human rights violations and abuses . We must step up efforts to get that stripped away . The terrorist mind control cult and total fraud needs to be put down like the infectious insidious diseased monster that it is .Today has mixed emotions but victory may yet come .


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...rbitration-motion/#comment-1905968054[/QUOTE]
:witch2:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
And directed at scientologists:

Observer • 3 hours ago

For all you Scientologists out there exulting in the judge's decision, consider this:

You are celebrating the protection of Scientology's right to defraud you and leave you with no recourse. You have no guarantee that you won't be declared at your COB's whim. Ten years ago the Garcias never thought they'd be declared SPs either.
http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1905927879

Room 101 • 3 hours ago

I know dozens of people who are stil in and under the radar, and so do many others here. I've heard tell recently that there are hundreds upon hundreds which are under the radar in LA. They all love watching Scientology take its hits and hope it fails. The problem is, they're the problem. They being the ones under the radar. The cult would crumble so fast if you(under the radar pussies) would just stand up for yourself. What kind of legacy are you leaving? A legacy of servitude? Subjugation? Being an utter pussy?

Of course you have good reason. You would lose your loved ones, finances, blah blah fuck you. I lost all of that and gained more. When you go to bed tonight distraught over the present status of the Garcia lawsuit and you feel a welling anger inside, just know you should be pissed at yourself. Don't be pissed at Scientology. Don't be pissed at Whittemore. Be pissed at yourself that you watch good people turn their lives upside down so that they may fight injustices that you are a victim of. Be pissed that your integrity, honor and self worth aren't even on the line - they're already gone.

If this pisses some people off. Good. Be pissed. At me if you want. But it's you who is going to sleep tonight with the integrity of a whimp.

"TO LEARN WHO RULES OVER YOU, SIMPLY FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE." - Voltaire

With that, my name is Nick Lister and Scientology is fucked. I feel bad for anyone that has a gift so beautiful as life and is blessed with a mind that cannot be who they are and say what they think. I pity you.
http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/13/ga...tology-arbitration-motion/#comment-1905993477
 

AnonLover

Patron Meritorious
Shit. :sad:

Can the Garcias appeal to a higher court? If so, will they appeal?

Ortega addressed that point in the comments:
For those struggling to understand, this is a stone cold LOSS. The Garcias are not going to bother with going through Scientology's "arbitration," which doesn't actually exist, and Whittemore knew it.

Will they appeal and throw a bunch of more money after all that they've already spent after two years of litigating? I'll try to find out, but don't be surprised if they say no.

This is Scientology using the First Amendment to escape criminal fraud because the US courts are crippled by the "church" exemption. It is a total victory for Scientology. Please try to keep up.

To step back from this defeat for a second, here's a few things to keep in mind for those who are angry...

Vance Woodward attempted to get his money on account back as well as everything else he ever paid for on the grounds of coercive persuasion. That refund+repayment strategy didn't pan out.

The Garcias attempted to get donations for Super Power, Ideal orgs, etc. back on the grounds of fraud - the money wasn't used for the intended purpose. That strategy didn't pan out either.

These were both BIG, complex targets to hit because no precedents exist. It was a gamble at best, they aimed high and missed.

If ever there was a time to aim lower, and hit a smaller target, it is now. Still got money on account you left behind and wrote off as the cost of getting out? Then you have a way to channel your anger into a smaller target. Don't get mad, get even. Fight for your repayment, and fight hard. If for no other reasons than to be a PITA and pick up where Woodward and Garcia left off in your own small way.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Shit. :sad:

Can the Garcias appeal to a higher court? If so, will they appeal?

The idea that there can exist arbitration made up entirely of members prejudiced in favour of their group, that are trained to view anyone who criticises their group as an enemy, when the Garcias are no longer members just blows my mind. This can't really be happening. America, what's going on?

Yeah...Scientology Mediation:

You escape from Charles Manson's cult.

Then, the cult hunts you down, kidnaps you, and does a binding Mediation.

Charlie is the first Mediator.

And his zombie Manson family murderers are the other 2 Mediators

They Mediate a resolution. Death by stabbing.

But's it's okay.

Because, Mansonology is a religion.​
 
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JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Found out about this stunningly poor decision last night while w/friends & family to attend the Going Clear film.

My predictions (link here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-2015-events&p=1007738&viewfull=1#post1007738 ) as to Judge Whittemore's opinion and the timing of same were both 100% wrong. Yay me. <---sarcasm

Reading through the decision itself, a few legal-eagle friends all commented (separately) that the judge answered every question raised by the plaintiffs with the same, one-size-fits-all answer: 'first-amendement-equals-free-pass-for-defendants'. None had ever read a decision such as this, btw.

Plaintiffs' attorney, Ted Babbitt, and his firm are, from what I'm able to discern, well-known and well-respected in the Florida legal community. Usually, when a firm has such an esteemed reputation, they are also knowledgeable about 'which way the wind blows' at the local federal appellate level. Thus, if we do see an appeal in this case, it may well be because the legal landscape isn't thought to be hostile to plaintiffs' claims. <---Then again, my predictions are terrible and wrong.

Curiously enough, Judge Whittemore stayed the decision itself "pending arbitration".

Theoretically, I suppose this means that: (1) the Garcias must submit to scientology's 'arbitration' process, and, (2) if the Garcias are unfairly treated in that arbitration, then (3) the Garcias can present evidence of such unfair/illegal treatment to Judge Whittemore upon which to rule.

Will the Garcias submit their claims for refunds to scientology's 'arbitration' panel? If they don't, I don't see how they can appeal Judge Whittemore's non-final decision in the federal courts. (The federal rules of civil procedure are very clear on this point.)

JB

For those who have followed this case, please note there's a new ESMB thread about this recent ruling here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?38681-GARCIA-CASE-ENDED&p=1015558&viewfull=1#post1015558
 
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Leland

Crusader
Found out about this stunningly poor decision last night while w/friends & family to attend the Going Clear film.

My predictions (link here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-2015-events&p=1007738&viewfull=1#post1007738 ) as to the Judge Whittemore's opinion and the timing of same were both 100% wrong. Yay me. <---sarcasm

Reading through the decision itself, a few legal-eagle friends all commented (separately) that the judge answered every question raised by the plaintiffs with the same, one-size-fits-all answer: 'first-amendement-equals-free-pass-for-defendants'. None had ever read a decision such as this, btw.

Plaintiffs' attorney, Ted Babbitt, and his firm are, from what I'm able to discern, well-known and well-respected in the Florida legal community. Usually, when a firm has such an esteemed reputation, they are also knowledgeable about 'which way the wind blows' at the local federal appellate level. Thus, if we do see an appeal in this case, it may well be because the legal landscape isn't thought to be hostile to plaintiffs' claims. <---Then again, my predictions are terrible and wrong.

Curiously enough, Judge Whittemore stayed the decision itself "pending arbitration".

Theoretically, I suppose this means that: (1) the Garcias must submit to scientology's 'arbitration' process, and, (2) if the Garcias are unfairly treated in that arbitration, then (3) the Garcias can present evidence of such unfair/illegal treatment to Judge Whittemore upon which to rule.

Will the Garcias submit their claims for refunds to scientology's 'arbitration' panel? If they don't, I don't see how they can appeal Judge Whittemore's non-final decision in the federal courts. (The federal rules of civil procedure are very clear on this point.)

JB

For those who have followed this case, please note there's a new ESMB thread about this recent ruling here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?38681-GARCIA-CASE-ENDED&p=1015558&viewfull=1#post1015558

Well, stayed the decision itself "pending arbitration" leaves to door open for the Garcias...IMO. A good thing.

Knowing the Cult.....and the Policies that they have to follow....they should shoot themselves in the foot...at some point.

Possibly the Garcias....due to this legal situation.....could have some sort of council present.....during this cult arbitration proceedings...

Anything that happens during the cult arbitration....could be used in an appeal...or new trial?

Or in this current Law Suit....if the decision is "pending arbitration."

Possibly the Judge would want a third party present.....so he could know and have unbiased facts about how the arbitration was conducted?

How could he make a decision...otherwise...?
 

Leland

Crusader
I would imagine that the Cult's thrust during an arbitration....would have to be to "get the person back on lines." ????

If the Cult's position....is that the Garcia's should donate more money....or if they have any money left on Account.....use it to pay for Sec Checking....or what ever to get back into "good graces" with the cult.....OR...to even have an arbitration at all.......then....the cult has no arbitration....IMO.

Perhaps the Judge....wants to "find out" what the Cult will do.....and that is why his decision is "pending"

My personal recollection of the cult's "policy" is that if you ask for a refund.....you are an SP and out of the cult....

If you go outside the cult's "system"...and start legal proceedings against the cult....you are definitely an SP and kicked out of the cult...

I don't thing the cult's policy allows for an SP to have an arbitration...or any interaction with the Cult...

The only terminal....is "Int Justice Chief".......and he is not a "3 person panel..."

So, a small point....but IMO, someone in the cult.....now will have to "make up some new policy" to deal with this.....

And if that happens.....then that person is an SP.....

And if someone in the cult "makes up some new policy" then the cult doesn't function off of LRH policy....so that becomes a lie.....and usable in Court...?

Anyway....very interesting.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
#1. Well, stayed the decision itself "pending arbitration" leaves to door open for the Garcias...IMO. A good thing.

#2. Knowing the Cult.....and the Policies that they have to follow....they should shoot themselves in the foot...at some point.

#3. Possibly the Garcias....due to this legal situation.....could have some sort of council present.....during this cult arbitration proceedings...

#4. Anything that happens during the cult arbitration....could be used in an appeal...or new trial? Or in this current Law Suit....if the decision is "pending arbitration."

#5. Possibly the Judge would want a third party present.....so he could know and have unbiased facts about how the arbitration was conducted? How could he make a decision...otherwise...?

For clarity, I've numbered your comments above. :)

#1: It's good only if the Garcias want to submit to scientology's 'arbitration' process. If they don't want to do that, then Whittemore's non-final decision ties their hands to appeal it (with very few exceptions, only final rulings are appealable in the federal courts) and that, in effect, may force the Garcias to return to Judge Whittemore (via a Motion) and request he vacate the stay and/or somehow convert his non-final decision to a final decision.

#2. Agreed.

#3. The 'arbitration' rules (procedural & contextual) are wholly authored by scientology management. So if, right this very moment, the rules state that legal counsel is permitted to assist a Co$ member in an 'arbitration' proceeding, the rule can be changed later today, or tomorrow, or one minute before the Garcias arrive for their 'arbitration' hearing, or as it is taking place, or one minute after the hearing ends, etc.
Per Judge Whittemore's particular (and most peculiar) interpretation of the First Amendment, scientology's 'arbitration' is whatever scientology says it is, whenever and howsoever scientology says it.

#4. Not if Judge Whittemore's interpretation of the First Amendment is correct. He opined that scientology's 'arbitration' process is entirely and completely beyond the reach of US law. Thus, anything that occurs within an 'arbitration' is not something he believes he, or any other US court, is permitted to consider.

#5. Same answer as in #4 above. Were Judge Whittemore to order an unbiased third party to attend an 'arbitration', TeamScio attorneys would immediately object on the grounds that he's already ruled that he does not have any authority to do so. Would TeamScio agree to the presence of a court-appointed unbiased third party? I doubt it, but footbullets do happen. :)

JB
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I would imagine that the Cult's thrust during an arbitration....would have to be to "get the person back on lines." ????

If the Cult's position....is that the Garcia's should donate more money....or if they have any money left on Account.....use it to pay for Sec Checking....or what ever to get back into "good graces" with the cult.....OR...to even have an arbitration at all.......then....the cult has no arbitration....IMO.

Perhaps the Judge....wants to "find out" what the Cult will do.....and that is why his decision is "pending"

My personal recollection of the cult's "policy" is that if you ask for a refund.....you are an SP and out of the cult....

If you go outside the cult's "system"...and start legal proceedings against the cult....you are definitely an SP and kicked out of the cult...

I don't thing the cult's policy allows for an SP to have an arbitration...or any interaction with the Cult...

The only terminal....is "Int Justice Chief".......and he is not a "3 person panel..."

So, a small point....but IMO, someone in the cult.....now will have to "make up some new policy" to deal with this.....

And if that happens.....then that person is an SP.....

And if someone in the cult "makes up some new policy" then the cult doesn't function off of LRH policy....so that becomes a lie.....and usable in Court...?

Anyway....very interesting.

My bold above.

The IJC's own deposition in this case describes a 3-person panel for 'arbitration'.
Knowledgeable former members of Co$ have read that deposition transcript and have pointed out* that the IJC's description of the 'arbitration' process was disingenuously conflated with the 'comm ev' process...so as to make it appear that 'arbitration' & 'comm ev' are nearly identical.

JB

*Many such comments @ The Underground Bunker when the deposition transcript was released. IIRC, there were 1 or 2 comments here @ ESMB, too.
 
A stay of proceedings is a ruling by the court in civil and criminal procedure, halting further legal process in a trial. The court can subsequently lift the stay and resume proceedings. However, a stay is sometimes used as a device to postpone proceedings indefinitely.

Stay of proceedings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stay_of_proceedings

Wikipedia
Hum. He stayed the proceedings. I just skimmed through his findings, and despite the one sided contract of adhesion, the fact the Garcia's have been expelled, and have no rights, and the lameness (or lack of) of the arbitration procedure, any rulings on that matter would violate the religious amendment. he finds for the "church".

I am really and truly amazed that the tobacco companies, the drug cartels etc. haven't started their own religion and declared tobacco, crack cocaine their religious sacraments. Hells bells. If a criminal organization can get away with it, why not everybody?

ROBBER
Give me all your money and jewels

VICTIM
No way buddy

ROBBER
(displaying cross around his neck)
Your money is mine according to my Guru

VICTIM
(Pulling out gun and shooting the Robber)
And my house is my holy church!​

Mimsey
 

Leland

Crusader
Hum. He stayed the proceedings. I just skimmed through his findings, and despite the one sided contract of adhesion, the fact the Garcia's have been expelled, and have no rights, and the lameness (or lack of) of the arbitration procedure, any rulings on that matter would violate the religious amendment. he finds for the "church".

I am really and truly amazed that the tobacco companies, the drug cartels etc. haven't started their own religion and declared tobacco, crack cocaine their religious sacraments. Hells bells. If a criminal organization can get away with it, why not everybody?

ROBBER
Give me all your money and jewels

VICTIM
No way buddy

ROBBER
(displaying cross around his neck)
Your money is mine according to my Guru

VICTIM
(Pulling out gun and shooting the Robber)
And my house is my holy church!​

Mimsey

I recall, back around 1980 .....in Miami, Fla......there was a Rastafarian group, I believe on Star Island....that did just that.

They tried to make the claim that POT.....was part of their Religious Sacrament.....and therefore legal....and the US Courts could not rule against them...due to their First Amendment Rights...

I don't recall all the details....but they lost their case....and their POT smuggling and use as a religious sacrament was shut down.....

It was a big deal at the time. The Rastafarians came out of Jamaica, and did try to spread to other Caribbean Islands....and the USA....(and world wide...I suppose...)

I also recall....that back in the late 1970's some in the Cult were fond on claiming that the second largest raid AGAINST a religious group was against the cult of scientology....

The first being when the US Cavalry was sent into Utah and Salt Lake City......against the Mormon's to stop their practice of polygamy....

And on into modern times.....Waco....

And that Cult in Oregon with the guru Rajneeshee........

So there certainly are legal precedents of Courts taking actions against religions in the US.....I'm sure there are more examples....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack
 
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