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MainStream Society's Humiliation of Minority Spiritual and Religious Pursuits

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Alanzo, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    No, you don't get it ... but it's called looking at the big picture and ignoring trivia even if some of it is not ideal ... something similar is happening across the free world in Politics.

    It has nothing to do with blind loyalty, hypocrisy, cruelty or tribalism.

    The people you are currently tearing to shreds are doing something about the cult and by supporting them many of us are simply acknowledging the efforts being made because we appreciate it, a lot ... that doesn't mean we are blind or stupid or that we now need you to show us the way.

    There is nothing complicated or wrong in giving support to people deserving of it.

    Keep digging though by all means ... just don't waste too much time trying to drag us into your hole with you.
    Jenyfurrr, Glenda, pineapple and 3 others like this.
  2. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I find your premise delightfully simplistic. You seem to think that people are either Scientologists or anti-Scientologists -- fanatics one way or the other -- apparently because that's what you did. And you seem to think that you are the only one who found a middle way: Not a Scientologist but not anti-Scientology either. You wish to categorize the people here into the anti-Scientology cult mindset because you can read their minds.

    Delightful, if annoyingly conceited.

    In actual fact, in our conversations here, we generally agree that there were beginning parts of Scientology that seemed to provide some benefit and other parts that gave us temporary feelings of well-being or even temporary euphoria. So, obviously, not fanatical anti-Scientology per your definition.

    So, since we don't fit your definition of anti-Scientologists, I'm going to ask again: Who do you think you are proselytizing to here?
  3. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Of the hundreds of friends I have on Facebook there are many whom I've got no idea if they consider themselves a Scientologist or not, nor do I care.
    And there are others whom I know are doing Scientology (independent of the CoS) and we get along just fine.

    That said, I have a great dislike of Scientology, inside or outside of the CoS, and feel any benefits someone is looking for can be better acquired via other practices. I despise any products or services that are marketed by means of fraud and deception. And Dianetics and Scientology (within CoS) use fraudulent marketing practices to recruit members and sell their services.

    But I am not anti-Scientologist. I was one myself. I got in because I wanted to both help myself and serve humanity, and I admire others who have that purpose. None of them understood the true nature of the CoS prior to walking in the door as "raw meat".
  4. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    The first time I read through this, I felt like I was in 99% agreement with everything you said.

    On the second read through I realized I was in 100% agreement with what you said.

    Your position is my exact same position.
    Jenyfurrr and Type4_PTS like this.
  5. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm anti the Church of Scientology but not the subject of scientology. If people want to use scientology outside the official "church" and they are not being enslaved and abused and not enslaving and abusing others then that's fine by me.
    Bill and Alanzo like this.
  6. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Same with me.

    I used to rage about THE HYPNOTISM!

    Then I learned what hypnosis actually was.

    I think Scientology can be correctly understood as a highly developed form of Hypno-Therapy. Hypnotherapy has hit and miss results. But it can be delivered "safely", and it does work for some people.
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Organized Scientology does not believe in pedophilia. They just do not seem to think that adult scientologists having sex with children is a big deal, deserving of criminal penalties.

    Especially when officially noticing it would bring "out PR" to the org, or adversely affect an "upstat".
  8. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The Scientology organizational culture which LRH put together:

    Whatever gets Gross Income up is good.

    Whatever puts Gross Income down is bad.

    Whatever has negligible effect on GI is unimportant.

    So, it's not that the organization is pro or anti pedophile. It's that they don't care if it's not impacting the stats.

    I was once talking with a woman who was upset that Scns were hiring illegal aliens, and this put her at a competitive disadvantage, and the MAA was uninterested in doing anything.

    I tried to explain to her that the MAA's first priority was situations which impacted org stats, and her problem, while important to her, was not important to org stats.
    Type4_PTS, JustSheila and lotus like this.
  9. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    It's pretty similar to how many for-profit corporations operate. Often times what is best for the end consumer is way down on the list of priorities, if it's even on the list at all.

    It's not how I would expect an organization to be run though when designed by "mankind's greatest friend". :whistling:

    While the organization doesn't "believe in pedophilia", and I doubt that that's what Leah ever said, the indoctrination that Scientologists receive can be a contributing factor towards some individuals believing it is OK to have sex children. When one sees a child but in their mind they're seeing an adult in a small body, that's not good. Anyone who might already be leaning towards being a pedophile might be more likely to act on their sexual attraction towards children.

    And when a Scientologist in good standing does commit a sexual crime towards children, or any other crime, it is routinely covered up.

    A pedophile might be tossed out of the organization for molesting a child, but oftentimes the crime is withheld from the police, so the predator is free to continue going after children outside the organization.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  10. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Not just "for profit" organizations. "Non profits" focus on what generates donations and grants. University professors focus on grant revenue. And government bureaucrats focus on what gets them more budget and people.
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    So is that what this is all about?

    KAWW (Keeping Alanzo's Wokeness Working) points 1 through 10?
    freethinker likes this.
  12. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    In the case of the CoS, it is run pretty much like a for-profit business more so than a "church". Donations are donations in name only.

    And that would be OK and ethical IF all that was promised was actually delivered. If I could get rid of my eyeglasses, boost my IQ a point per hour of auditing, receive the promised benefits of Clear and OT , become Cause over Parking Spaces, etc., I would gladly pay hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    Enthetan and Lurker5 like this.
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    All part of my "recovery" from Scientology, and anti-Scientology.
    Me and My Self likes this.
  14. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I agree that it's a highly developed form of hypnotherapy.

    But you shouldn't hypnotize yourself into believing you're infested with alien souls which you then spend many years trying to remove, at great expense. Only to find, in the end, that you're no better off than you were before. And in fact, probably much poorer.

    That's a very bad idea.
    Jenyfurrr and Emma like this.
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    You know, if we can believe Sarge, Hubbard was sincere about that. He audited himself all his life.

    Just like Karen.

    Again, it was a crazy belief of his. But, if we can believe Sarge, he sincerely believed it.

    You seem to look at it as an intentional mind fuck Hubbard was using on other people. It may have been.

    But it may not have been, too.

    You're not pretending to know are you?
  16. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    This is the point, it is your recovery and not someone else's.

    Everyone recovers in their own way if recovery is needed, there is no one way to recovery. Because there is no "one way recovery" it makes all you assert meaningless except to your own recovery which I question has happened at all.

    You think if it applies to you, it applies to everyone. Nothing could be further from the truth, you don't have a monopoly on, or special knowledge of, what it takes to recover from Scientology, or any other cult.
    UTR, strativarius and Me and My Self like this.
  17. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    While, yes, Hubbard was auditing himself, I'm not sure he saw the purpose of auditing the same way that we all did. Both he and his son (Nibs) mentioned that magic played a major role. Here's a couple quotes from both of them:

    "But mysticism/occultism isn't our source. Our source, actually, is magic. Magic is something that, today, is performed on a stage with prestidigitation. But magic actually has a much more vivid and noble history than a stage magician. It is quite remarkable that the magician attempts directly to use spirits to perform his will. And that is his basic modus operandi. That is his goal in practicing magic."
    from a Lecture given on 29 January 1958, The History of Clearing by L Ron Hubbard.

    Hubbard's oldest son, L. Ron Hubbard Jr, said in the 1983 Penthouse interview:

    "There was no other religion in the house! Scientology and black magic. What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it's stretched out over a lifetime, and so you don't see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology --and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works. Also, you've got to realize that my father did not worship Satan. He thought he was Satan. He was one with Satan. He had a direct pipeline of communication and power with him. My father wouldn't have worshiped anything. I mean, when you think you're the most powerful being in the universe, you have no respect for anything, let alone worship."
  18. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    No, I don't pretend to know what L. Ron Hubbard really thought, especially in his later years.

    I don't believe that what he said was necessarily what he really thought, either.
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  19. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Yes, agreed.
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Personally I was involved with scientology long after i was committed to christianity

    There's a difference between being committed and being involved; in a breakfast of ham and eggs the chicken is involved but the pig is committed