Making things go right in relationships after SCN

Night Owl

Patron with Honors
Certainly an ex scn and a scn know what it meant to 'make things go right' and how you are made to feel as a scn when you did so for the greater good.

IN SCN, this 'make things go right' does not apply to relationships & people in general whether they are your spouse, your child or your friend. Even if you felt pain about being forced to divorce or leave your child in another state, or in never seeing your friend again, it was done for the sake of SCN and you were applauded for being a good scn for doing it. The SO has astronomical divorce rates--paralelled by no other religion.

'Making things go right' as it concerned your relationships, meant doing what was best for SCN above all. In SCN, people, spouses, & children are expendable and do not take precedence over the 'stated' aims and goals of SCN which in reality, is, to continue the operation of a rich cult.

AFTER leaving SCN, one wonders how well people have been able to 'rehab their ability' to make things go right in their marriages, family and relationships. Making things go right in a relationship is remembering the importance that a person or your family had for you before you 'learned' that loving and leaving was on par with changing rooms in a hotel.

One wonders if ex scn's can or do return to the state of putting family, spouse and children first above all --as it should be, and sacrificing if needed to preserve it.

One wonders if it easier for an ex scn to leave a spouse, family or friend than it would have been before they were ever indoctrinated into viewing people and family as unimportant.

For me, it took reading and viewing the stories here and xenu.net. From there I now have more allegiance to my spouse and family and friends than I ever did in my life. If anything, it is stronger now than ever.

This can be a challenge to look at honestly.

(p.s.this discussion does not apply to a relationship status in a forced disconnection situation still present)
 
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Good twin

Floater
Night Owl....interesting question. Hmmmmm. Taking a good hard look and I must say....well....I'm still working on it and not. I mean I still have some denial on this subject. The "chip" is still missing to some degree.

I'm in a "relationship" currently and I can honestly say after 15 years I barely know this person and have learned how to not piss him off too much. It doesn't sound like much, but it's all I have and I hang on to it because I stopped believing in whatever I believed in before Scientology so long ago I can't even remember what I wanted in a relationship. (Besides - I was a teenager before Scientology)

As far as my kids. It's always been good. Strange but good. I'm far from a "traditional" mom, but my kids know I love them and they are pretty amazing. I mean I'm there for them - sort of. I don't cook. I forget lots of "parent" stuff unless I get reminded. My kids let me know how to be appropriate. I trust them on this. It mostly works out.

GT
 

Night Owl

Patron with Honors
Night Owl....interesting question. Hmmmmm. Taking a good hard look and I must say....well....I'm still working on it and not. I mean I still have some denial on this subject. The "chip" is still missing to some degree.

I'm in a "relationship" currently and I can honestly say after 15 years I barely know this person and have learned how to not piss him off too much. It doesn't sound like much, but it's all I have and I hang on to it because I stopped believing in whatever I believed in before Scientology so long ago I can't even remember what I wanted in a relationship. (Besides - I was a teenager before Scientology)

As far as my kids. It's always been good. Strange but good. I'm far from a "traditional" mom, but my kids know I love them and they are pretty amazing. I mean I'm there for them - sort of. I don't cook. I forget lots of "parent" stuff unless I get reminded. My kids let me know how to be appropriate. I trust them on this. It mostly works out.

GT

Thank You for posting that GT....as I was writing it I knew people had varying degrees of years IN SO and how this issue can be very hard. I always believed that a good heart never goes away. But that thing they taught us to do, that disloyalty to people and only to purpose can cause an ex scn to have trouble in relationships once out--or can cause an ex scn to not be able to hold on to what loyal people they have right there in their life.

Your relationship with your kids sounds great and fun!
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I can't seem to "make it go right" in relationships, these days, but I don't think it has anything to do with my time in the Church. I'm just a difficult son of a bitch, always have been, and my standards are extremely high. I have read "the case for settling", but I would never be happy with someone who didn't challenge me intellectually, meet me physically, and have a lot going on for them in their own life. When you are playing in that league, it's not about "making it go right", it's about being the best candidate for "the job". One day, someone will see me that way, and until then, I'm working on myself.

Once I'm in a relationship, "making it go right" is not a priority for me. Being true to myself is. In the processing of being true to myself, either I will be what the other person needs, or not. If not, there's not sense in trying to "make it go right", because that would be a compromise of my own integrity or theirs.
 

Night Owl

Patron with Honors
I can't seem to "make it go right" in relationships, these days, but I don't think it has anything to do with my time in the Church. I'm just a difficult son of a bitch, always have been, and my standards are extremely high. I have read "the case for settling", but I would never be happy with someone who didn't challenge me intellectually, meet me physically, and have a lot going on for them in their own life. When you are playing in that league, it's not about "making it go right", it's about being the best candidate for "the job". One day, someone will see me that way, and until then, I'm working on myself.

Once I'm in a relationship, "making it go right" is not a priority for me. Being true to myself is. In the processing of being true to myself, either I will be what the other person needs, or not. If not, there's not sense in trying to "make it go right", because that would be a compromise of my own integrity or theirs.

To your first paragraph--I have a deeply held belief that yes if you put it out there to 'the universe' or whatever you believe in...you will meet someone who sees you that way.

However, the strong willed person you seem to be....and that I am....well I know for a fact that if I never compromised on lesser important things, I would never be in a realtionship-nor would anyone.

What you seek where there is no regard for what needs the other has despite how great they are for you and to you ....will always result in failure.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Ah, well, of course the other person has needs, also. Either I am the answer to those needs, though, or I'm not. I'm not saying I provide nothing for a partner! Just that if they don't like what I provide, then they are not the right person for me.

I've tried altering what I'm willing to give, and what I'm willing to take, and in each case, the compromises lead to dissatisfaction on my part, which also invariably leads to failure of the relationship. Changing to suit the needs of another, or requiring them to change for me, is a recipe for sadness.
 

Night Owl

Patron with Honors
I see what you mean...there is a line across where you sacrifice who you are to a level that brings unhappiness. I think both parties cross it here and there then self correct...but I believe relationships are a dance that if new skills do not get learned and some fun imparted it gets boring...and just being 'who we are' doesnt carry it all the time. Sometimes you have to shake things up!
 
Night Owl....interesting question. Hmmmmm. Taking a good hard look and I must say....well....I'm still working on it and not. I mean I still have some denial on this subject. The "chip" is still missing to some degree.

I'm in a "relationship" currently and I can honestly say after 15 years I barely know this person and have learned how to not piss him off too much. It doesn't sound like much, but it's all I have and I hang on to it because I stopped believing in whatever I believed in before Scientology so long ago I can't even remember what I wanted in a relationship. (Besides - I was a teenager before Scientology)

As far as my kids. It's always been good. Strange but good. I'm far from a "traditional" mom, but my kids know I love them and they are pretty amazing. I mean I'm there for them - sort of. I don't cook. I forget lots of "parent" stuff unless I get reminded. My kids let me know how to be appropriate. I trust them on this. It mostly works out.

GT


Sounds like your have nice kids who understand you.
I don't have kids, but if I did, I would need kids like yours who would understand when I did not feel like cooking.
My siblings and I knew that my mother could not do everything (large family).:)
 
I can't seem to "make it go right" in relationships, these days, but I don't think it has anything to do with my time in the Church. I'm just a difficult son of a bitch, always have been, and my standards are extremely high. I have read "the case for settling", but I would never be happy with someone who didn't challenge me intellectually, meet me physically, and have a lot going on for them in their own life. When you are playing in that league, it's not about "making it go right", it's about being the best candidate for "the job". One day, someone will see me that way, and until then, I'm working on myself.

Once I'm in a relationship, "making it go right" is not a priority for me. Being true to myself is. In the processing of being true to myself, either I will be what the other person needs, or not. If not, there's not sense in trying to "make it go right", because that would be a compromise of my own integrity or theirs.


"the case for settling" --more info please?
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
In SCN, people, spouses, & children are expendable and do not take precedence over the 'stated' aims and goals of SCN which in reality, is, to continue the operation of a rich cult.

Wow, this is an interesting topic, something I havent thought about before.
My marriage in the church was awful - once when I was upset I was shown that booklet written by Mary-Sue Hubbard regarding the "hat" of a wife. Even at the time I was disgusted by that backwards, unfair description of what a marriage is supposed to be.

I wont ever ever get in a situation again where I am expected to do things because I am the "girlfriend" or wife. Its not a "hat" for cripes sake, its a relationship. I am very independant, probably because I had to fight so hard to get my own life back. Ill be buggered if Im going to let someone get control over my life and how I live it. I also never want to be completely financially dependant on another person, for the same reason.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Scientology can be quite dogmatic, that way! I don't think its unhealthy to look at your position with your lover/partner as a hat, so long as you define it together, rather than relying on some cultural role as defined by Ron, or Mary Sue for that matter. I'm independent, when it comes to surviving and putting together a good life, but I'm not asocial, and having a partner doesn't mean you can't be independent. Just means you elect to work together.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is a bizarre conversation. One isn't in a relationship, one is in love. It is pretty damn tough to live with someone closely without loving that person. That would be like the obnoxious experiments schools use with teenagers, having them carry around some gizmo that they have to feed and take care of to "teach" them how it is to have kids. You LOVE your kids. That's what makes it great, not what you do for them.
If you don't love someone don't live with them. If you do then you won't be compromising, you'll be having the opportunity to give and recieve love in bucketsful. This isn't like having a college roomate. What the hell are we in it for?
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Being in love doesn't mean there are no compromises.

Kids, or other nuclear family, is another story. People who are not nuclear family, but who are living as a married couple, or just as a couple (no marriage), may or may not be "in love" at all times during their relationship.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Being in love doesn't mean there are no compromises.

Kids, or other nuclear family, is another story. People who are not nuclear family, but who are living as a married couple, or just as a couple (no marriage), may or may not be "in love" at all times during their relationship.

I agree that one is not in love "at all times". Although I now believe it can be a lot more in that line than I had thought previously.

But for me it comes down to what is one in it for. If it is primarily for something less than love, for learning how to give and accept love more and better, I"l get a cat instead.
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
Scientology can be quite dogmatic, that way! I don't think its unhealthy to look at your position with your lover/partner as a hat, so long as you define it together, rather than relying on some cultural role as defined by Ron, or Mary Sue for that matter. I'm independent, when it comes to surviving and putting together a good life, but I'm not asocial, and having a partner doesn't mean you can't be independent. Just means you elect to work together.

I cant agree with you more. I think Im a bit more independant than I need to be, but I quite enjoy it :D
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is a bizarre conversation. One isn't in a relationship, one is in love. It is pretty damn tough to live with someone closely without loving that person. That would be like the obnoxious experiments schools use with teenagers, having them carry around some gizmo that they have to feed and take care of to "teach" them how it is to have kids. You LOVE your kids. That's what makes it great, not what you do for them.
If you don't love someone don't live with them. If you do then you won't be compromising, you'll be having the opportunity to give and recieve love in bucketsful. This isn't like having a college roomate. What the hell are we in it for?

:yes:
 

Night Owl

Patron with Honors
Certainly an ex scn and a scn know what it meant to 'make things go right' and how you are made to feel as a scn when you did so for the greater good.

IN SCN, this 'make things go right' does not apply to relationships & people in general whether they are your spouse, your child or your friend. Even if you felt pain about being forced to divorce or leave your child in another state, or in never seeing your friend again, it was done for the sake of SCN and you were applauded for being a good scn for doing it. The SO has astronomical divorce rates--paralelled by no other religion.

'Making things go right' as it concerned your relationships, meant doing what was best for SCN above all. In SCN, people, spouses, & children are expendable and do not take precedence over the 'stated' aims and goals of SCN which in reality, is, to continue the operation of a rich cult.

AFTER leaving SCN, one wonders how well people have been able to 'rehab their ability' to make things go right in their marriages, family and relationships. Making things go right in a relationship is remembering the importance that a person or your family had for you before you 'learned' that loving and leaving was on par with changing rooms in a hotel.

One wonders if ex scn's can or do return to the state of putting family, spouse and children first above all --as it should be, and sacrificing if needed to preserve it.

One wonders if it easier for an ex scn to leave a spouse, family or friend than it would have been before they were ever indoctrinated into viewing people and family as unimportant.

For me, it took reading and viewing the stories here and xenu.net. From there I now have more allegiance to my spouse and family and friends than I ever did in my life. If anything, it is stronger now than ever.

This can be a challenge to look at honestly.

(p.s.this discussion does not apply to a relationship status in a forced disconnection situation still present)

Just revisiting the bull bait. :eyeroll:
 

Pixie

Crusader
I agree that one is not in love "at all times". Although I now believe it can be a lot more in that line than I had thought previously.

But for me it comes down to what is one in it for. If it is primarily for something less than love, for learning how to give and accept love more and better, I"l get a cat instead.

Well said, and that's what it all boils down to. I must say that all the relationships I've had since I woke up have been very destructive. It's as if something inside me got squashed in the cult and I had forgotten what true love is. I have also found myself quite suggestable and believing everything I was told instead of listening to my instinct but I've also learned since that it was not listening to my instinct and my own heart while in that got me into so much trouble.

When I woke up to the cult, I also woke up to the fact that I was living with a roaring alcoholic who had been lying and hiding this from me for years and I didn't even see it! :duh: Waking up to the cult helped me to wake up to many many other things too, and I'm still waking up. And I agree Nexus, if one is in a realtionship for anything less than pure love and acceptance then it's just not going to work.

I think also it could be difficult to trust after an experience like that, the level of betrayel when you find out what really happened can be too much to bare so the guard is always up, however on the other hand, one can still be walking around in some sort of daze which I very much was and can believe anything they are told without even thinking about questioning it leading to my believing all sorts of lies from potential partners. Life is a learning curve for sure. It's not easy this 'waking up' malarky! :eyeroll:
 

Zander

Patron with Honors
I have wondered about this 'make it go right' thing. Whilst in scn it seemed so admirable, associated with qualities of determination and achievement. But I now look on it as a demand to put one's life out of balance for the sake of the group's demand of you, the individual. In other words, by making things go right in a very narrow area of ones life one is making things go wrong in other areas. And certainly an example of this is the adverse effects on one's relationships and family, as has been shown in this thread. And when a scientologist, everything takes second place to "clearing the planet" so other aspects of your life are bound to suffer.

Perhaps from time to time it does work to pull out all the stops when trying to achieve a goal, perhaps a work project or such like. However, the cofs pushes this to the extreme, week after week after week, year in, year out. And relationships can suffer badly as a result.

I think after scn one can still have goals and a determination to achieve them, and this can be worthwhile. The difference is that must be that one pay attention to the overall balance of one's life, which includes one's family and other relationships. For example, if you find yourself working 16 hours a day on a new business this may work short-term but before long your family life may well suffer.

In terms of what the balance should be between your home life and other activities this will vary from person to person. However, I believe that one's relationships and love can flourish after leaving scn in a way which is impossible when subject to the heavy demands when in.

Zander
 
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