Making up for lost time

Amadeus Einstein

Patron with Honors
I was very young when I joined staff and really hadn't had much experience of the "real world". Getting out was quite a culture shock, because there were so many areas of life that most people have got sorted by the time they hit their prime years which I had simply never had the time or money to do.

Getting a job wasn't that difficult, although there were things I unwittingly found myself doing that it quickly turned out weren't the way companies do business. Being expected to multi-task instead of one cycle at a time, lack of dev-t policies, interruptions, and presenting a body were irritating to me at first until I got used to it. Then I realised how much easier it is because people are all too willing to pitch in and answer questions/help you in areas that strictly belong to their colleagues.

Much has been said about SO members who didn't even possess a driver's licence until they got out. I had become so accustomed to trotting up and down to the org by public transport I found the prospect of having to learn to drive quite daunting.

I kind of feel that I am damaged somehow and didn't mature emotionally from the point I got on staff.

Despite this, since I got out, I have got somewhere to live, a vehicle, started putting a career together, rekindled some very old ambitions and interests, become much closer to my family and have a marriage proposal.

I have no one else to blame but myself for putting my entire life on hold for so many years. But I can't help feeling that if Scn was what it was supposed to be, a person would be able to fully function in the real world as well as be on staff.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
We have EXACTLY the same story. I feel for you. I am glad to hear things are going well for you now.

If you ever need help or support, please PM me. I would love to help.

(Would we have crossed paths at all? Check my story if you want....)
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I was very young when I joined staff and really hadn't had much experience of the "real world". Getting out was quite a culture shock, because there were so many areas of life that most people have got sorted by the time they hit their prime years which I had simply never had the time or money to do.

Unfortunately there are way too many like yourself. Personally I was somewhat fortunate in that I did not get into Scientology and the SO until I was 23 so I had a fair amount of adult work experience before I got in which greatly helped me when I got out.


Getting a job wasn't that difficult, although there were things I unwittingly found myself doing that it quickly turned out weren't the way companies do business. Being expected to multi-task instead of one cycle at a time, lack of dev-t policies, interruptions, and presenting a body were irritating to me at first until I got used to it. Then I realised how much easier it is because people are all too willing to pitch in and answer questions/help you in areas that strictly belong to their colleagues.

A hard thing to come to terms with is the fact that Scientology "organization" is ridiculous. It is one of the most inefficient organizations on the face of the earth. It is run by the Sea Org which is even more grotesquely inefficient than the ordinary orgs.

The only way Scientology orgs survive is by not paying their staff. Period.

Much has been said about SO members who didn't even possess a driver's licence until they got out. I had become so accustomed to trotting up and down to the org by public transport I found the prospect of having to learn to drive quite daunting.

Fortunately when I was in the idea of SO members no being allowed to drive had not entered anyone's pointy little head.

I kind of feel that I am damaged somehow and didn't mature emotionally from the point I got on staff.

We all got damaged or held back by our SO and Scientology experience. The good news is that we heal, the hard part (at least for me) was realizing that I had been hurt. Not an easy thing to admit.

Do you find it easy to tell people what you did during those years? It took me 15 years before I could just say it.

Despite this, since I got out, I have got somewhere to live, a vehicle, started putting a career together, rekindled some very old ambitions and interests, become much closer to my family and have a marriage proposal.

That is great stuff - what resonates the most about what you wrote is the fact that we think this is unusual and a big deal. Most people (us not included) were doing this in their early twenties.. Believe me I am not trying to make less of the goodness that is now coming your way - more power to you I say. The tragedy for me is that this is what missed - and for what?

I have no one else to blame but myself for putting my entire life on hold for so many years. But I can't help feeling that if Scn was what it was supposed to be, a person would be able to fully function in the real world as well as be on staff.

Your first paragraph is very "scientology" because no scientologist ever finds it easy to acknowledge having been the victim of anything. IMHO its what makes Scientologists so vulnerable. Let me ask you this - if you had been told the truth about what faced you in the SO, no varnish, no PR the sheer unblemished truth - would you have gone through with it? If you had been given the truth about what was really happening in Scientology "expansion" what the facts were behind Scientology's "German problem", how many people went Type III every year while on the advanced courses - would you have joined or stayed?

Maybe you need to look at what was done to get you to stay, it was not an accident, it was deliberate.

If someone mugs you - it's not your fault.
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
We all got damaged or held back by our SO and Scientology experience. The good news is that we heal, the hard part (at least for me) was realizing that I had been hurt. Not an easy thing to admit.

Do you find it easy to tell people what you did during those years? It took me 15 years before I could just say it.

Oh! this is so true.

You know - you get out - your making new friends and acquaintances and underneath there is the feeling that if you were to spill the beans it would be the equivalent of admitting that you had been and possibly still are a complete pinhead.

"Hi. I'm so and so and spent a large part of my life working for free to support the completely insane personal goals of a psychotic."

What's was really tricky after so many years on staff was putting together a resume that did not include my time spent on staff.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Oh! this is so true.

You know - you get out - your making new friends and acquaintances and underneath there is the feeling that if you were to spill the beans it would be the equivalent of admitting that you had been and possibly still are a complete pinhead.

"Hi. I'm so and so and spent a large part of my life working for free to support the completely insane personal goals of a psychotic."

What's was really tricky after so many years on staff was putting together a resume that did not include my time spent on staff.

I've been lucky in this way, I guess. Because, though it is listed, not much info was given. And in the US its illegal - it's discrimination to not hire because of it. Its also illegal to ask questions about religious beliefs. (Its also illegal to ask someone if they are pregnant when looking to hire them. Its discrimination). And many other questions are illegal in regards to hiring.

People have sued companies for things asked in hiring interviews. Know your rights. They cannot ask. Its against the law and you can sue them for it. (If you are that kind of person. I can get around it politely though).

Doesnt mean you ain't gonna be holding your breath when they see or find out about it.


---


I could go on a roll about the hiring questions and legalities of it. Craziness.
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
I've been lucky in this way, I guess. Because, though it is listed, not much info was given. And in the US its illegal - it's discrimination to not hire because of it. Its also illegal to ask questions about religious beliefs. (Its also illegal to ask someone if they are pregnant when looking to hire them. Its discrimination). And many other questions are illegal in regards to hiring.

People have sued companies for things asked in hiring interviews. Know your rights. They cannot ask. Its against the law and you can sue them for it. (If you are that kind of person. I can get around it politely though).

Doesnt mean you ain't gonna be holding your breath when they see or find out about it.


---


I could go on a roll about the hiring questions and legalities of it. Craziness.

I see what you mean there. For me, since I immediately went back to college and finished a degree I had started many years earlier, I was able to work part-time in the same industry as my major.

So, by the time I was ready to enter the workforce full time, I had accumulated enough of a resume to get started.

To this day I only tell my very close friends about my time in Scientology.

It can be really embarrassing to admit the depth of one's own gullibility and stupidity.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I find it sad that so many of us still feel we were stupid and gullible and so on for spending so many years in Scn. Maybe we were, but the original concept of wanting to help other people, and supposedly improve ourselves, is not a stupid one. To have survived these experiences more or less in one piece and then go on to learn how to cope in the 'normal' world is a great feat, in my opinion. :)
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
I find it sad that so many of us still feel we were stupid and gullible and so on for spending so many years in Scn. Maybe we were, but the original concept of wanting to help other people, and supposedly improve ourselves, is not a stupid one. To have survived these experiences more or less in one piece and then go on to learn how to cope in the 'normal' world is a great feat, in my opinion. :)

I can't say that I feel a lot of sadness but I get what you mean.

Before I left for good and after all the heavy ethics dramatized on staff, the rantings and ravings by "on-source" execs, the wrong why's and all of the other crazy stuff one experiences on staff - I one day had this huge epiphany: "It's not me! I am not the source of whatever the current crisis is. The group is terminally insane!" Talk about a lightening bolt from the blue.

After having my help button tromped on hard (for about the 999th time) so that I would be willing to endure the latest bit of "handling" for the good of the group..... I finally concluded that I was not the source of the latest flap or for just about every flap I had been punished for (along with the rest of the staff).

It's very similar to being in an abusive relationship. I kept holding on to the idea that it would somehow be possible to salvage something out of a part of my life that I had put so much effort into.

In the end, when it was finally time to move on, it was actually a relief.

Now, what is left is the idea of how I could have been so utterly stupid to have hung in there for so long - especially since the evidence of what Ron's new civilization was going to look like was right in front of my freekin' face for seventeen years.

IMO, much of the green on white is nothing more than an instruction manual for creating a fascist society.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
AE wrote:

I kind of feel that I am damaged somehow and didn't mature emotionally from the point I got on staff.
I know what you mean here.

I think that adopting a fixed philosophy that provides easy answers is a way of avoiding "growing up", or at least it can have that effect.

I remember that I was studying anthropology in collegre right before I got involved, and a lot of my "stable data" were being shaken. It didn't look like it was possible to have answers to life.

And here was this smorgasboard of pre-packaged answers, delivered in easy bite-sized courses like the "How to Pick Your Nose" course, and "How to Talk to People". It was such a relief.

And then to be told that ALL THE ANSWERS ARE RIGHT HERE in these nooks and tapes, and all you have to do is pay for them or work for free!

I was perfect for it.

But yes, a few things happened to me and I realized just how dysfunctional and truly immature I was, after 16 years of doing nothing but studying these pre-packaged answers for myself, and responding to life based on the fixed solutions they provided.

I don't think I did mature very much during my time in Scientology. I never had to really confront anything, or think up anything on my own. Everything I needed was already "handled" - all I needed to do was apply it!!
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
In order to move on from Scientology, I think it is important to list out all of the various Scientology practices that do not produce consistent results (or no results).

Include in this list those practices which, while seeming to produce a short-term result, are actually harmful in the long run.

For instance:

  • Management by Intimidation - (The Product Officer PL)
  • Requiring the PC to pay for the repair of auditor mistakes - (can't remember the name of the issue)
  • The RPF (Rehabilitation through humiliation)
  • The "I'm not auditing you" Sec Check

The conclusion I come to based upon my own personal observations of these practices over a significant amount of time is that they do not work - or do not work often enough to justify their use.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
In order to move on from Scientology, I think it is important to list out all of the various Scientology practices that do not produce consistent results (or no results).

Include in this list those practices which, while seeming to produce a short-term result, are actually harmful in the long run.

For instance:
  • Management by Intimidation - (The Product Officer PL)
  • Requiring the PC to pay for the repair of auditor mistakes - (can't remember the name of the issue)
  • The RPF (Rehabilitation through humiliation)
  • The "I'm not auditing you" Sec Check
The conclusion I come to based upon my own personal observations of these practices over a significant amount of time is that they do not work - or do not work often enough to justify their use.

See, I think they do work.

I think that, from LRH's viewpoint, all of Scientology "works".

For his purposes.

All those things produce the coercive environment that he needs to keep people introverted and working for free.

It is a technology. A workable technology that he learned from Mao and implemented in the late 1960's.

Maybe your list should be turned around and written from LRH's viewpoint.

The things in Scientology that don't work would be:

  • A Free Scientology Center
  • Affordable prices
  • Decent wages for staff
  • Auditing that is for the PC without any executive C/Sing
  • A clear understanding of hypnotic states, and their benefit to people
  • etc. etc.
 
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Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I can't say that I feel a lot of sadness but I get what you mean.

Before I left for good and after all the heavy ethics dramatized on staff, the rantings and ravings by "on-source" execs, the wrong why's and all of the other crazy stuff one experiences on staff - I one day had this huge epiphany: "It's not me! I am not the source of whatever the current crisis is. The group is terminally insane!" Talk about a lightening bolt from the blue.

After having my help button tromped on hard (for about the 999th time) so that I would be willing to endure the latest bit of "handling" for the good of the group..... I finally concluded that I was not the source of the latest flap or for just about every flap I had been punished for (along with the rest of the staff).

It's very similar to being in an abusive relationship. I kept holding on to the idea that it would somehow be possible to salvage something out of a part of my life that I had put so much effort into.

In the end, when it was finally time to move on, it was actually a relief.

Now, what is left is the idea of how I could have been so utterly stupid to have hung in there for so long - especially since the evidence of what Ron's new civilization was going to look like was right in front of my freekin' face for seventeen years.

IMO, much of the green on white is nothing more than an instruction manual for creating a fascist society.

I don't think you can really appreciate the impact until you have been removed from it for a time. Then you can say it was stupid. I still don't think you or anyone should be hard on themselves for being duped though. We learn not to let it happen again. :melodramatic:
I was wondering recently why it was that I was attracting people in abusive relationships looking for help, well now I know. I became an expert! :ohmy:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
An observation (and a bit of opinion)

Seems to me that orgs, missions, SO installations are dev't ridden...that the policies actually engender more dev't.
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
See, I think they do work.

I think that, from LRH's viewpoint, all of Scientology "works".

For his purposes.

All those things produce the coercive environment that he needs to keep people introverted and working for free.

It is a technology. A workable technology that he learned from Mao and implemented in the late 1960's.

Maybe your list should be turned around and written from LRH's viewpoint.

The things in Scientology that don't work would be:

  • A Free Scientology Center
  • Affordable prices
  • Decent wages for staff
  • Auditing that is for the PC without any executive C/Sing
  • A clear understanding of hypnotic states, and their benefit to people
  • etc. etc.

A very good point indeed.

But personally, I've always thought the lower bridge - I'm talking about Life Repair through NED - has been very beneficial to most people. I've got somewhere around 20,000 hours of personal experience with this area of the bridge as both an auditor and C/S - which is not a lot of time compared to some others on this board..... and from that point of view, that section of the bridge does a pretty damn good job of waking people up.

Inspecting the concepts one has used to think with and make decisions and thereby re-evaluating the importance of those ideas IMO is not harmful at all.

But that's just one guy's opinion and feel free to disagree! :coolwink:

Where I have real disagreements with Scientology is in the area of the green on white - the creation of a dangerous environment which doesn't really exist in order to control and enslave others.

The Gestapo-like things like Rollbacks, "... not auditing you" Sec Checks, running in on others that they are infested with a bottomless pit of ev-purps, the justification of psychotic behavior in the name of saving the planet, the use of lower ethics conditions on a whim, stacking committees of evidence so that a certain outcome can be predetermined, and on and on and on...... perverted all that had come before - say 1967.

I'm thinking that LRH sometime in the mid-60's went stark-raving psycho - full-blown paranoid psychosis in all its manifestations.

Surrounded by imaginary enemies, he developed a whole series of very suppressive policies and technologies to combat them.

It doesn't surprise me at all that expanded grades are about to be de-emphasized. After all, we can't have anyone in Scientology who has regained the ability to think clearly. That'd make the job of the Thought Police too hard to accomplish.
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
I don't think you can really appreciate the impact until you have been removed from it for a time. Then you can say it was stupid. I still don't think you or anyone should be hard on themselves for being duped though. We learn not to let it happen again. :melodramatic:
I was wondering recently why it was that I was attracting people in abusive relationships looking for help, well now I know. I became an expert! :ohmy:

Thank you for the kind thoughts concerning my pinheadedness. :D

We sure do learn not to let it happen again!

I don't know about the rest of the people on this board, but I don't take any unjustified BS from anybody.

Been there - life is too short - you're outta here!
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
This and lots more too!

Reviving this one, as it's really good, too!

Thanks, LOML! :clap: :flowers2: There is so much terrific stuff on this board that I'm truly amazed; and, new stuff and people coming on board all the time makes it kinda addictive...:duh: :old: ...forgot...there's a thread on that too...:ohmy: Seriously, now...gotta work on "dancin' lessons" for LA, Vegas or whereever...:nervous: :yes: :dancer: :goodluck: :giggle: :roflmao: :laugh:

Roy
 

Good twin

Floater
Thanks, LOML! :clap: :flowers2: There is so much terrific stuff on this board that I'm truly amazed; and, new stuff and people coming on board all the time makes it kinda addictive...:duh: :old: ...forgot...there's a thread on that too...:ohmy: Seriously, now...gotta work on "dancin' lessons" for LA, Vegas or whereever...:nervous: :yes: :dancer: :goodluck: :giggle: :roflmao: :laugh:

Roy

(Texas, Roy - land of the exes):yes:
 
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