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Mark Janicello book - false report correction

How did you like the book of Mark Janicello?


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MrNobody

Who needs merits?
dejure.org is about german law, the incident happened in Austria. Nevertheless, free speech rights are valid there too. Plus, the people were peaceful and left quickly. They didn't throw rotten tomatoes at him, they didn't destroy any props, they didn't fart, they just distributed leaflets :) According to the book, the performance did resume after they were gone.

Ah, yes, thanks. I missed that little tidbit. :duh: Austria indeed has a Theatergesetz AKA Theaterarbeitsgesetz, which is about work hours in theaters. It doesn't apply here IMHO.
 

marjan

Patron with Honors
You know Mark, the bottom line on all this is that you made a very poor life choice and joined an evil cult. That's what messed things up for you. Even if there had been no protesters, it would have still messed up your life, because that's what this cult does - sooner or later. I'm sure that the protests were extremely unpleasant - from your point of view, but if you sup with the devil, how can it end well? You had allowed yourself to be counted as a poster child for Scientology - which under the unwritten rules of engagement, makes you a legitimate target for legal methods of protest, ridicule, lampooning, and caricature. That does not mean that I don't sympathise with you over all the crap you went through, but it all stems from a choice you made. You allowed yourself to be used as a piece of PR artillery, which drew incoming fire upon itself.

That's a bad position to be in, but you put yourself there.

I sincerely wish you well, and a long and happy life - post Scientology.

That I made a mistake with scientology is obvious. ALL of us did.

I appreciate your comments and can understand your point of view.

We don't live in a perfect world.
The protesters made mistakes -- as did I.

I left Scientology.
I am happy that I did.
None of that, including the death threats or the protest can be changed now,
But I will be DAMNED TO HELL, if I am going to be called a liar by some cowardly bitch here on this forum.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
That I made a mistake with scientology is obvious. ALL of us did.

I appreciate your comments and can understand your point of view.

We don't live in a perfect world.
The protesters made mistakes -- as did I.

I left Scientology.
I am happy that I did.
None of that, including the death threats or the protest can be changed now,
But I will be DAMNED TO HELL, if I am going to be called a liar by some cowardly bitch here on this forum.

I understand what you're saying, but as I am not personally in posession of the facts I can't comment on specifics. You're right - we all made mistakes, and in many cases the price was very high.
 

Mrs Beasley

Patron
Ah, yes, thanks. I missed that little tidbit. :duh: Austria indeed has a Theatergesetz AKA Theaterarbeitsgesetz, which is about work hours in theaters. It doesn't apply here IMHO.

The Theatergesetz is no longer valid, however there is a Wiener Veranstaltungsstättengesetz which voids the Theatergesetz:
http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.w...ned&ResultPageSize=50&Suchworte=Theatergesetz

If the link doesn't work, try searching from http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/default.aspx and then "Landesrecht", "Wien" and then search Theatergesetz. At the bottom it says that this law voids the Wiener Theatergesetz.

Todays law is mostly about construction safety.

Whatever Janicello may say or think - he dropped the charges 10 years ago.
 

Captain Koolaid

Patron Meritorious
The claim that the German Office for the protection of the Constitution is running black ops like having one of their agents leave a death threat on an ansering machine is beyond ridiculous. :duh:
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
The claim that the German Office for the protection of the Constitution is running black ops like having one of their agents leave a death threat on an ansering machine is beyond ridiculous. :duh:

Indeed - until proven to be factual, that is. Do you want to wait for it? :biggrin:
 

marjan

Patron with Honors
The claim that the German Office for the protection of the Constitution is running black ops like having one of their agents leave a death threat on an ansering machine is beyond ridiculous. :duh:

how much have you personally dealt with the german verfassungschutz?
you seem to be an expert on their methodology.
do you think that everything the CIA or FBI does is also legal and by the book.
are you that naive?
 

marjan

Patron with Honors
The Theatergesetz is no longer valid, however there is a Wiener Veranstaltungsstättengesetz which voids the Theatergesetz:
http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.w...ned&ResultPageSize=50&Suchworte=Theatergesetz

If the link doesn't work, try searching from http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/default.aspx and then "Landesrecht", "Wien" and then search Theatergesetz. At the bottom it says that this law voids the Wiener Theatergesetz.

Todays law is mostly about construction safety.

Whatever Janicello may say or think - he dropped the charges 10 years ago.

WHAT??? Are you afraid to expose yourself?
No name??
No address??
No meeting?

WHY Mrs. Beasely, WHY???
I would LOVE to see you and have a peaceful, video-taped demonstration.

But you are too cowardly for that.
That's how liars are.
 

Captain Koolaid

Patron Meritorious
how much have you personally dealt with the german verfassungschutz?
you seem to be an expert on their methodology.
do you think that everything the CIA or FBI does is also legal and by the book.
are you that naive?

I'm not so naive to believe that they would be so incredibly stupid to present you irrefutable evidence on a silver platter. I do not assume they would never do questionable things, but they would make sure not to get caught redhanded.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
how much have you personally dealt with the german verfassungschutz?
you seem to be an expert on their methodology.
do you think that everything the CIA or FBI does is also legal and by the book.
are you that naive?

I know something about the German Verfassungsschutz, even something about their not-so glorious history like the Celler Loch for example. The difference: There are DOX about the Celler Loch which I can read. So do we get to see DOX for your claims?
 

marjan

Patron with Honors
I know something about the German Verfassungsschutz, even something about their not-so glorious history like the Celler Loch for example. The difference: There are DOX about the Celler Loch which I can read. So do we get to see DOX for your claims?

I am still looking for the law specific to theater and public places,
however, even under the law below, the demonstation was illegal.
I will continue to search tonight, or find out tomorrow from my lawyer in Vienna.

This is the general law of "Hausfriedensbrüche"
http://www.jusline.at/109_Hausfriedensbruch_StGB.html#

(1) Wer den Eintritt in die Wohnstätte eines anderen mit Gewalt oder durch Drohung mit Gewalt erzwingt, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr zu bestrafen.
(2) Der Täter ist nur mit Ermächtigung des in seinen Rechten Verletzten zu verfolgen.
(3) Wer auf die im Abs. 1 geschilderte Weise in ein Haus, eine Wohnstätte, einen abgeschlossenen Raum, der zum öffentlichen Dienst bestimmt ist oder zur Ausübung eines Berufes oder Gewerbes dient, oder in einen unmittelbar zu einem Haus gehörenden umfriedeten Raum eindringt, wobei

  1. er gegen eine dort befindliche Person oder Sache Gewalt zu üben beabsichtigt,
  2. er oder mit seinem Wissen ein anderer Beteiligter (§ 12) eine Waffe oder ein anderes Mittel bei sich führt, um den Widerstand einer Person zu überwinden oder zu verhindern, oder
  3. das Eindringen mehrerer Personen erzwungen wird, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren zu bestrafen.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
LOL, That's all you've got?

Don't forget to mention how that relates to the Theatergesetz from 1934. :coolwink:

I am still looking for the law specific to theater and public places,
however, even under the law below, the demonstation was illegal.
I will continue to search tonight, or find out tomorrow from my lawyer in Vienna.

This is the general law of "Hausfriedensbrüche"
http://www.jusline.at/109_Hausfriedensbruch_StGB.html#

(1) Wer den Eintritt in die Wohnstätte eines anderen mit Gewalt oder durch Drohung mit Gewalt erzwingt, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr zu bestrafen.
(2) Der Täter ist nur mit Ermächtigung des in seinen Rechten Verletzten zu verfolgen.
(3) Wer auf die im Abs. 1 geschilderte Weise in ein Haus, eine Wohnstätte, einen abgeschlossenen Raum, der zum öffentlichen Dienst bestimmt ist oder zur Ausübung eines Berufes oder Gewerbes dient, oder in einen unmittelbar zu einem Haus gehörenden umfriedeten Raum eindringt, wobei

  1. er gegen eine dort befindliche Person oder Sache Gewalt zu üben beabsichtigt,
  2. er oder mit seinem Wissen ein anderer Beteiligter (§ 12) eine Waffe oder ein anderes Mittel bei sich führt, um den Widerstand einer Person zu überwinden oder zu verhindern, oder
  3. das Eindringen mehrerer Personen erzwungen wird, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren zu bestrafen.

Did they use or threaten/intend to use force/violence to enter the event? Did they carry weapons? If both questions can be answered with a "No", which I think they can, then this law doesn't apply IMHO, but IANAL.
 
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Mrs Beasley

Patron
I am still looking for the law specific to theater and public places,
however, even under the law below, the demonstation was illegal.
I will continue to search tonight, or find out tomorrow from my lawyer in Vienna.

This is the general law of "Hausfriedensbrüche"
http://www.jusline.at/109_Hausfriedensbruch_StGB.html#

(1) Wer den Eintritt in die Wohnstätte eines anderen mit Gewalt oder durch Drohung mit Gewalt erzwingt, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr zu bestrafen.
(2) Der Täter ist nur mit Ermächtigung des in seinen Rechten Verletzten zu verfolgen.
(3) Wer auf die im Abs. 1 geschilderte Weise in ein Haus, eine Wohnstätte, einen abgeschlossenen Raum, der zum öffentlichen Dienst bestimmt ist oder zur Ausübung eines Berufes oder Gewerbes dient, oder in einen unmittelbar zu einem Haus gehörenden umfriedeten Raum eindringt, wobei

  1. er gegen eine dort befindliche Person oder Sache Gewalt zu üben beabsichtigt,
  2. er oder mit seinem Wissen ein anderer Beteiligter (§ 12) eine Waffe oder ein anderes Mittel bei sich führt, um den Widerstand einer Person zu überwinden oder zu verhindern, oder
  3. das Eindringen mehrerer Personen erzwungen wird, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren zu bestrafen.

This is about violence, violent entry, threatening violence. Even according to your own reports, the 4 protesters weren't violent. They even paid you to be there. They distributed leaflets, and then left.
 

marjan

Patron with Honors
This is about violence, violent entry, threatening violence. Even according to your own reports, the 4 protesters weren't violent. They even paid you to be there. They distributed leaflets, and then left.

WHAT"S YOUR NAME?
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

SHOW YOURSELF -- YOU COWARD

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR. -- the STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS IS ALREADY OVER.
YOU BROKE NO LAW, RIGHT?

YOUR NAME>
YOUR ADDRESS>
OTHERWISE... GET LOST
 

marjan

Patron with Honors
LOL, That's all you've got?

Did they use or threaten/intend to use force/violence to enter the event? Did they carry weapons? If both questions can be answered with a "No", which I think they can, then this law doesn't apply IMHO, but IANAL.

Well Mr. Nobody, you must be german if you can read that.
Perhaps you work for the Verfassungschutz too?
Since you are "Nobody" and nobody knows your identity.
But my, how facile you are reading german legal texts...

No they carried no weapons, but they forcibly stopped a live performance against the will and intention of the theater owners, the rest of the 455 people in the theater and the performers onstage. That, in and of itself, is enough to constitute "Friedensbrüche"

They disrupted the performance to such a degree that we had to stop the show and have the demonstrators physically removed from the theater by the stagehands, as we had no security.
They were yelling in the theater, standing up to block everyone's views.
Throwing flyers in the audience and onto the stage and taking photos (without permission) of both the performance (which in and of itself is illegal) and the audience (also illegal.)

But, I guess they are allowed to impinge their protest over the rights and wishes of all the rest of the in the audience who just came to see a great show.

It's a shame they didn't yell "FIRE" or "BOMB THREAT."
That, you would probably understand.

But, you know what... the law is there and YOU AIN"T NO LAWYER, and THIS AIN"T NO COURT.

Mr. Nobody, YOU don't care about this story.
You only want to be "right" for all your buddies here.
As if, any of this means anything, to anyone, except the few dozen people posting.

You will never be my friend,
You will never support me or my ideas, and I will never support yours.

So, long story short, why am I wasting my time talking to some german who probably is either OSA, or Verfassungschutz?

As to the reporter in BW... the documents are in OSA's hands. I turned them over at that time, never thinking I would need them. Perhaps you, or you buddy Nicole can ask Jörg or Sabine for a copy. Then you can expose the culprit yourself -- since you are so interested in his name. Get it from them.
 
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