Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: Scientology: Past and Present

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Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: Scientology: Past and Present
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/scientology-past-and-present/

Notice again Marty no longer capitlizes the word "scientology."

FWIW, I think this is an interesting essay that is worth reading. As always, YMMV.

***** BEGIN QUOTATION *****

Continued, from last post Scientology’s Worship of the Past:

The highest level of the bridge (the one-path-covers-all series of specific steps one must follow in order to arrive to native state) Hubbard left behind, OT (Operating Thetan) VIII, is a foray into the deep past for the purpose of identifying and validating one’s fundamental whole track identity. Thus, along with the deep past, identity – or ego – is made an obsession with scientology. The original client-centered therapy that scientology copied and scientology itself – up to the level of Clear – aim for stripping those ‘false’ identities one tends to collect and adopt so as to reach a state of self-actualization where a person finds his own self. However, in scientology one is not permitted to take that self-actualization so as to transcend self and explore new horizons. Instead, scientology teaches that knowing oneself is not good enough; one must become someone else: the superhuman, ubermensch, operating thetan. And to get there the scientologists starts anew on an endless journey stripping what he is indoctrinated to believe are thousands upon thousands of foreign personalities he is continuing to play out unconsciously. In fact, unwilling to admit the failure of scientology to erase the subconscious, Hubbard came up with a new explanation for the continuing subconscious dramas Clears continue to play out. That is a science fiction mythology that anthropomorphizes every sub-conscious thought the Clear has.

More fundamentally, scientology’s tenet of the everlasting individuality makes Clear self-actualizing a minor way station. The further an individual progresses along the bridge the more he is convinced that he possesses a continuing core identity which one can never fully realize absent thousands of hours of more auditing. That is a self that has been a separate, identifiable individual basic personality for what varies between adherents from quadrillions to an infinity of years. The longer one participates the more firmly one believes in his individuated separateness from all other beings and the entire universe. And so after spending perhaps years to attain the state of Clear the false identity stripping starts anew and this time continues until the scientologist dies.

To believe that scientology has secrets in store that will release the self from this obsession with time and identity would be irrational. For the past twenty-eight years scientology’s leaders have been attempting to read Hubbard’s solo (self-administered meditations) sessions after his own passage through his highest published level. Because of the non-sequitur nature of the scrawl he left behind, they have unsuccessfully attempted to divine what levels Ron may have ventured into beyond OT VIII. The only thing they do purport to know for certain is this: those ventures were even further into the deeper past than even quadrillions of years.

That is indisputable fact if Ron’s last two most trusted aides can be trusted as they were by Ron. Both of them made public presentations of a handwritten sheet of paper purported to be a worksheet from one of Hubbard’s late-life sessions. Pat Broeker did so at the L. Ron Hubbard funeral event in Hollywood in January 1986. Years later David Miscavige – who later deposed Broeker -pulled the same stunt in a special “OT Summit” briefing aboard scientology’s ship the Freewinds. They presented the same full 14 ½” sheet of paper covered in numbers in L. Ron Hubbard’s handwriting. Scientology’s elite of the elite claimed that was a date Hubbard was addressing in his post-OT VIII self auditing. They promised to divine what OT IX, X, ‘and so on’ were from study of those worksheets. To date they have apparently failed to create those revelations. So, the only thing the world knows about scientology’s as yet uncodified levels is that they direct attention to dates in the past that are so ancient the numbers alone can fill a foolscap sheet of paper.

Lest people mistake that worship of the past is something David Miscavige and Pat Broeker misinterpreted from Hubbard’s final days, realize it is much the same in scientology circles outside of the official organization. While Miscavige and Broeker promised OT levels IX, X, and ‘so on’, the leading independent scientology organization offers fifty-five (55) such levels beyond Clear – or four and one half times the invitations to regress yet further into the past.

And so, behind the face of the scientologist trying his darnedest to project the image of the upbeat maverick fully in the present lies a hidden obsession to ultimately return to native state, quadrillions of years or more into the past. That this cognitive dissonant state (present vs. past) would appear to be the pressure-packed counterposing of the perfect, polar dichotomy is not so by accident. A dispassionate and informed study of Hubbard’s research and discovery path reveals it to be an inevitability.

***** END QUOTATION *****
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: Mark 'Marty" Rathbun: Scientology: Past and Present

Please use the default font/size.

Paul
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hubbard could delve quadrillions of years into the past and come up with events that couldn't be proved or disproved.

Well, anyone can do that.

Predicting the future is much more difficult because that will either prove to be right or wrong.

How about the Internet Ron? Didn't see that coming did you?:duh:
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
It looks like Marty really gets it.

Hubbard created the ultimate trap: Glue someone thoroughly in the past, endlessly looking for the key to "spiritual freedom and super powers".
I feel so sorry for those people still stuck in that "game" where everyone loses.

Edit: Of course, if you can keep them convinced that they're actually winning and not losing, the sick game can go on indefinitely.
 
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Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
""

Wasn't it L Ron Hubbard who promised the higher OT levels? IIRC, L Ron Hubbard said he had heaps of OT levels over VII in note form and it was that statement which lead Scientology to suspect Pat Broeker had made off with the materials. This injecting of half-truths into his laboured analyses of Scientology tech is more than a little frustrating. It would be far more interesting and useful to hear Marty's truthful and detailed version of the decades of spying against Broeker that went on trying to locate those alleged documents in order to fulfil L Ron Hubbard's promise.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Mike Rinder (& Mark 'Marty' Rathbun): Past and Present

Forgive the derail, but this seemed to be as good a place as any to put this. :)


michael-douglas3.jpg

He didn't know.


By accident, I came across this, from one year and ten months ago. It's not about tech, but it's a reminder of Mike Rinder's views (and, although he's absent from the quotes, also Marty Rathbun's views) a relatively short time ago.

Strange reading.



mrinder December 17, 2012 at 1:11 am

Not sure where you get your information from that LRH approved operations against Paulette Cooper or Gabe Cazares? Or are you asserting this based on the logic of “it was his organization so therefore he knew”?

mrinder December 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm

Clearly you didnt know Mary Sue Hubbard. If you had you would understand how silly this is. He is the LAST person on earth she would tell about illegal actions. Your assumptions are just that, and certainly not based on anything other than “Most dogs are brown. He has a dog. Therefore his dog is brown.” The outpoint in your conclusion is “assume similarities are not similar.”

mrinder December 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm

Yeah, that’s Tonja Burden. Who filed a civil case trying to collect money. There was TONS of shredding done in the paranoia to eradicate anything that gave ANY connection between LRH and the GO. It was nuts and unreal. But I do not believe ANY documents ever indicated any connection between LRH and an “operative” doing some illegal act.

But this is a debate that is pointless continuing. It’s unprovable either way. And no matter what I say, it won’t satisfy those who wish to believe otherwise.​

 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Re: Mike Rinder (& Mark 'Marty' Rathbun): Past and Present

By accident, I came across this, from one year and ten months ago. It's not about tech, but it's a reminder of Mike Rinder's views (and, although he's absent from the quotes, also Marty Rathbun's views) a relatively short time ago.

Strange reading.
Contrast with Mike in March 2014.

mrinder on March 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm

< snip >

Just for starters, DM most certainly was Action Chief CMO Int. For MANY years. It was where he gained the trust of LRH and LRH started calling him “Misc” and addressing despatches to him that way. One of the few people that LRH addressed on despatches with cc’s to their nickname. Miscavige was NOT Mission IC of “Special Project”, Terri Gamboa was. Miscavige was “Special Pjt Ops” (as in Mission Operator).

Ron absolutely abolished the GO. The Exec Strata was formed and the issues written about it before the formation of OSA. I had personal conversations with LRH about the disbandment of the GO and his desire to see it eradicated entirely as it had become a liability. You do not think that the GO was disbanded without his knowledge and Guardian PL canceled etc etc etc. Where are the docs? They don’t exist, remember, LRH was trying to avoid being connected in any way to the actions of the GO or Mary Sue, he was an unindicted co-conspirator.

Nothing was in writing. And though he had expressed a LOT of disgust about the GO during the “Confront of Evil” period and the formation of the Office of Evaluation and Execution, where it came up routinely that GO staff were employing org staff in their personal business, the reason for disbanding the GO was that they were not protecting him from criminal and civil liability. He considered they had betrayed him (inclusive of Mary Sue).

The idea that he knew nothing about Snow White and the illegal acts that were ongoing is tantamount to saying L. Ron Hubbard was blind, unaware and incapable of spotting an outpoint. That was NOT the case. He was briefed by Mary Sue every single day at lunch during the heyday of the GO Ops — in detail. If she didnt tell him “Joe Blow infiltrated the IRS and got documents” she told him what they knew (if you don’t believe he expected to be briefed about everything the GO was doing, then you also give him less credit than he deserved, he was not one not to be curious) and he would have figured it out. Believe me, the programs and actions written to implement Snow White WERE know[n] and authorized all the way to the top.

LRH directed exactly what was to be done at the Mission Holders Conference in SFO following the one in Clearwater. The whole thing was recorded so it could be sent to him. He listened to it, sent Miscavige and the others commendations and ordered that the entire transcript be published.

All of this information has been broadly published before. Just read Marty Rathbun’s books and blog and numerous other sources.


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...king-derringer&p=967138&viewfull=1#post967138

:confused2:
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Re: Mike Rinder (& Mark 'Marty' Rathbun): Past and Present


Thanks for posting the contrasting view.

It's still strange reading the quotes from one year and ten months ago. Was Rinder lying then, or just still "zapped" by Scientology, then?

Did both Mike and Marty have a simultaneous realization that the survival and well being of all mankind, life, the universe, and everything, does not depend on covering L. Ron Hubbard's ass?

Looks like it. :)

Now if only they would have simultaneous realizations that they needn't - or shouldn't - cover their own asses... so to speak.
 

Whitedove

Patron Meritorious
The sacriest part for me in all that is not the nonsense of the track going far as trillions or more years....to believe that...well...:screwy:

That is my opinion.

But the reality, down to earth part is the auditing of supposely many many other 'beings' being attached to you! Can you imagine the damage that can do to someone's mind? Believing there is more than one person inside of you? Sounds familiar? If Ron wanted to create schizoprhenic people, he sure found a way. Remember, his basics ideas comes from black magic.

How much more control can you get on a person than you get her to a point where that person has become crazy and than tell that person that the tech that made her that way will also get her better?

that is freaking scary! :hide:
 

tetloj

Silver Meritorious Patron
Wow. Just to put these two views side by side:

mrinder December 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm

Clearly you didnt know Mary Sue Hubbard. If you had you would understand how silly this is. He is the LAST person on earth she would tell about illegal actions. Your assumptions are just that, and certainly not based on anything other than “Most dogs are brown. He has a dog. Therefore his dog is brown.” The outpoint in your conclusion is “assume similarities are not similar.”




michaeljrinder
on March 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm said:

The idea that he knew nothing about Snow White and the illegal acts that were ongoing is tantamount to saying L. Ron Hubbard was blind, unaware and incapable of spotting an outpoint. That was NOT the case. He was briefed by Mary Sue every single day at lunch during the heyday of the GO Ops — in detail. If she didnt tell him “Joe Blow infiltrated the IRS and got documents” she told him what they knew (if you don’t believe he expected to be briefed about everything the GO was doing, then you also give him less credit than he deserved, he was not one not to be curious) and he would have figured it out. Believe me, the programs and actions written to implement Snow White WERE know[n] and authorized all the way to the top.


 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
. . .
Thought some of you might enjoy reading this.

Just an interesting shift from Marty circa 2009.

Marty answers a commenter (see in red).

[Reformatted in RED from original ALL CAPS]



Hemi |
October 4, 2014 at 8:08 am | Reply

Since hemi asks so many questions I am interlineating the answers in . . .
[RED] throughout his comment here – mark:

Marty,

Native state is beingness out of TIME. Or if you wish, the only present time there is. You know that. Anybody who touched/experienced it, however slightly, knows this. Ron knew and said it, and so did the Buddhas and all great sages. It is never what you once were, but what you once ARE.


Quite the contrary, you are not-ising ron’s own path – as per the post it plants you firmly in the past with the delusion that you are totally in the present.

The question how to get there…? who knows. Do you?


Yes.

Ron thought he did and presented it. So did the Buddha and the other sages. So do Ron’s Org, and the various Indies, Gurdjieff, Osho, just to name a few. Do you have a practical way of your own, that you can suggest which you believe to be valid/better?


Yes, I offer a course in it.

Practical as in “what to do” – not as in “what not to do”. as the latter is not too practical for the long run. (Practical meaning not just reading books, but by practicing)


If you read my previous posts you will know that I am now writing to forewarn people who haven’t gone the scientology cult route. I did not begin to do that until I was confident I could offer a way out of and beyond scientology and better than it for the beginner. Your note about ‘not by reading books’ but instead ‘by practice’ is part of mind numbing cult bubble you have chosen incidentally. Of course it entails reading books. Harnessing your horse to a single post has left you in a miniscule universe asserting self righteously that it is all right there within the ambit of your horse hitch.

2 years ago you were part of setting up the place where I practice a spiritual way (Dror, Israel). You saw for yourself the wonderful results there, thanks much to (not only, but) you too. You were happy about it. All people involved were happy. Life changed for many people. Now you claim you helped set up an off beat and dangerous hypnotic center?!


Quite the contrary, your guru there chose the Ron Hubbard way of attempting to monopolize the tech just like Miscavige -- except a whole hell of a lot less competently. As part of that he countenanced attacks on my wife and refused to take any iota of responsibility for it under Ron’s implanted belief that if it is done in the name of scientology, then anything goes.

It hurts.


The truth often does.

It is too big a Zig Zag.


For all Ron’s bluster, scientologists don’t seem to have a great tolerance for randomity.

Too much of a black and white,


Quite the contrary it is freedom from scientology’s two-valued, black and white logic universe view.

and far cry from blending, integrating, evolving – which I fully agree with. I have been doing Nots for long time now. I won’t do an advert here. This level is not easy, and not all lovey-dovey Kool aid drinking.


As Ron noted before he lost it, in scientology effective knowledge, if it departs from simplicity it has entered the realm of cult. So, yes, please no advertisements.

Hell, no. And the tech is not perfect!

But I have been far less in the past ever since starting, and I have touched and done some pretty incredible things in P.T (e.g. work, people, friendships), and occasionally, more than a few times I have lightly touched that native true present time state. How do I know for sure, objectively? I don’t. Except for this: In those times, the tears dripping down my chicks were unmistakable and I was the furthest thing from being SAD. So, that has to account for something in the realm of awareness and spirituality.

If this comment is out of sync with your current direction, fair enough, do not post it, it is fine with me. It is your blog. In that case, just keep it as a friends comm to you.

Hemi
 
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WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I just had a thought about all this "delving into the past" which is what auditing is all about. Scientologists who have been into it for awhile and become semi-addicted (or fully addicted?) to auditing... are always looking for that "feel good" moment, the release of endorphins, the floating needle, the whatever that makes them feel that what they are doing REALLY IS worthwhile, is worth all that time and effort, sacrifice, the hundreds of thousands of dollars, the mortgaged house, the pile of credit cards maxed out, the bankruptcies, and on and on.

They spend months, years, decades, doing this same thing! Delving into the past to try to get relief, or try to justify it all. The thing about it is.... there is never any end!

Hubbard said it himself: "There's more BT's, there's many many more!!" **** When you go delving for significance that has "charge" on it, it seems there is infinity of entities and charge to run.

What if, in the end, it's really all about Karma? And the only end to the suffering comes when you experience all the hell you've put others through?

Is that why Hubbard ended up all alone, paranoid, feeling harassed, and tormented by mental demons?

****
http://home.earthlink.net/~snefru/deathoflrh/prince-death.html
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
I just had a thought about all this "delving into the past" which is what auditing is all about. Scientologists who have been into it for awhile and become semi-addicted (or fully addicted?) to auditing... are always looking for that "feel good" moment, the release of endorphins, the floating needle, the whatever that makes them feel that what they are doing REALLY IS worthwhile, is worth all that time and effort, sacrifice, the hundreds of thousands of dollars, the mortgaged house, the pile of credit cards maxed out, the bankruptcies, and on and on.

They spend months, years, decades, doing this same thing! Delving into the past to try to get relief, or try to justify it all. The thing about it is.... there is never any end!

Hubbard said it himself: "There's more BT's, there's many many more!!" **** When you go delving for significance that has "charge" on it, it seems there is infinity of entities and charge to run.

What if, in the end, it's really all about Karma? And the only end to the suffering comes when you experience all the hell you've put others through?

Is that why Hubbard ended up all alone, paranoid, feeling harassed, and tormented by mental demons?

****
http://home.earthlink.net/~snefru/deathoflrh/prince-death.html

Good post Wildkat :)

8-8008 is the formula for the mindfuck that is $cientology and of course the world between your ears
is infinite and has no end because its purely conceptual, its looping logic based upon itself:headspin:
:treadmill::hamster: those wheels turning made a lot of money for Hubbard and now for DM and I
know I'm preaching mostly to the choir, but if even one person reading this is helped out of the
hamster cage then its worth saying:coolwink:and bears repeating "Scientology Sucks" !!!
 

The Sloth

Patron with Honors
I just had a thought about all this "delving into the past" which is what auditing is all about. Scientologists who have been into it for awhile and become semi-addicted (or fully addicted?) to auditing... are always looking for that "feel good" moment, the release of endorphins, the floating needle, the whatever that makes them feel that what they are doing REALLY IS worthwhile, is worth all that time and effort, sacrifice, the hundreds of thousands of dollars, the mortgaged house, the pile of credit cards maxed out, the bankruptcies, and on and on.

They spend months, years, decades, doing this same thing! Delving into the past to try to get relief, or try to justify it all. The thing about it is.... there is never any end!

Hubbard said it himself: "There's more BT's, there's many many more!!" **** When you go delving for significance that has "charge" on it, it seems there is infinity of entities and charge to run.

What if, in the end, it's really all about Karma? And the only end to the suffering comes when you experience all the hell you've put others through?

Is that why Hubbard ended up all alone, paranoid, feeling harassed, and tormented by mental demons?

****
http://home.earthlink.net/~snefru/deathoflrh/prince-death.html

Arnie posted a relevant thought about this from Eric Hoffer, which led me to this page of quotes:

http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Eric+Hoffer/7/index.html


I think every single one of them is relevant.

The most effective way to silence our guilty conscience is to convince ourselves and others that those we have sinned against are indeed depraved creatures, deserving every punishment, even extermination. We cannot pity those we have wronged, nor can we be indifferent toward them. We must hate and persecute them or else leave the door open to self-contempt.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good post Wildkat :)

8-8008 is the formula for the mindfuck that is $cientology and of course the world between your ears
is infinite and has no end because its purely conceptual, its looping logic based upon itself:headspin:
:treadmill::hamster: those wheels turning made a lot of money for Hubbard and now for DM and I
know I'm preaching mostly to the choir, but if even one person reading this is helped out of the
hamster cage then its worth saying:coolwink:and bears repeating "Scientology Sucks" !!!

As long as there are people with feelings of inadequacy, hopes, dreams, fears.... there will be a Cult ready to play upon those weaknesses, with promises of relief. All for a price, of course!
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
As long as there are people with feelings of inadequacy, hopes, dreams, fears.... there will be a Cult ready to play upon those weaknesses, with promises of relief. All for a price, of course!

Sad but true Wildkat, some men prey upon weakness or immaturity of others to gain power and position for themselves
but it is not the greed of those men that allows the con to work, it's our own greed no matter how small the grain
might be, it can be exploited by the expertise of the con man.

Promises of prestige power and status are the red flags that a person is being setup, "chosen few" special people etc etc
thats just the predatory act of spliitng from the herd the opportune marks.

it is embarrasing of course when you take the bait:duh: and even more so when you have to admit it to
anyone else, especially your kids who look to you for more elderly and perhaps wiser or more mature
advice.

As youngsters we don't always get it and even if we do we may not accept it until years later
and that palm slap comes:duh: damn thats what my mom or dad were trying to tell me.

Beyond words now so I offer this great tune by "Lynard Skynard"

"Simple Man"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB58XCqFDkY
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sad but true Wildkat, some men prey upon weakness or immaturity of others to gain power and position for themselves
but it is not the greed of those men that allows the con to work, it's our own greed no matter how small the grain
might be, it can be exploited by the expertise of the con man.

Promises of prestige power and status are the red flags that a person is being setup, "chosen few" special people etc etc
thats just the predatory act of spliitng from the herd the opportune marks.

it is embarrasing of course when you take the bait:duh: and even more so when you have to admit it to
anyone else, especially your kids who look to you for more elderly and perhaps wiser or more mature
advice.

As youngsters we don't always get it and even if we do we may not accept it until years later
and that palm slap comes:duh: damn thats what my mom or dad were trying to tell me.

Beyond words now so I offer this great tune by "Lynard Skynard"

"Simple Man"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB58XCqFDkY

LOVE that song! Thanks.
 
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