Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: Scientology Top Management (video of Marty being ambushed)

[HelluvaHoax!]

Knowing what I know about this period, it never made sense to me that LRH took so much effort to collect "his money" in the early eighties. His estate rumored to be well over $400 million at his death.

Included was the destruction of the mission network to make this happen, BTW.

Why would someone go through the onerous job of moving the money from the COS and/or SO reserves into his personal control and accounts (facing enormous potential tax liabilities, legal hassles and risks) knowing that his time on earth was pretty severely limited (as he spoke about in the long letter to David Mayo in the early 80's)?

Only at his death just a couple years later to face the onerous job of moving the money from his personal control and accounts back to the COS and/or SO reserves into (facing enormous potential death tax liabilities, legal hassles and risks).

From what I understand, his family got only a tiny bit of the entire LRH estate, a few million, the balance of it going back into SO reserves or somewhere to further his religion.

The transfer of tens, hundreds of millions back and forth at his age and imperiled medical condition only tells me he was not "playing with a full deck" mentally at the time. Just never made sense to me and does not seem that well thought out of an "end-of-life" financial strategy.

I'm not that smart about high finance but I would know enough to not attempt the transfer of that much money (especially at his age and medical condition). He just didn't need it and couldn't spend it or benefit from it. :confused2:

To me this is reliable evidence of a deteriorating mental state and impaired thinking later on in his life.

Comments from anyone better informed than me?

....

Originally Posted by L. Ron Hubbard

Dear Ilove2lurk,

The reason I went through all that trouble to get the money into my own accounts (where I could personally and quickly control it) is that, quite in addition to being morbidly megalomaniacal and dreadfully delusional, I was also preternaturally paranoid.

ML,

Ron

 

[Leland]

Good points all

As always with the CofS it is not the "org" it is where the center of gravity is, whatever name it is given.

Davey was head of ASI because, IIRC - as part of MCSO one of the first actions was aimed at getting Hubbard paid his "backlogged" royalties and this had to be done carefully because Hubbard would end up with some whopping tax bill and then came the whole Minimum book stocks with NEP and Pubs allowed to just basically take the org checkbooks and just order the books and ship them and write themselves a check. Orgs that could not afford the book stocks were "given" involuntary SOR loans. All so Hubbard could get 'his' money. Frannie and the other ASI execs made a bundle in bonuses of course - nothing like just waving your fingers and writing checks and wow! Making one's targets!!!

Anyway - just some gossip about why the "Ticks of ASI" liked to cluster around the old sewer...

Knowing what I know about this period, it never made sense to me that LRH took so much effort to collect "his money" in the early eighties. His estate rumored to be well over $400 million at his death.

Included was the destruction of the mission network to make this happen, BTW.

Why would someone go through the onerous job of moving the money from the COS and/or SO reserves into his personal control and accounts (facing enormous potential tax liabilities, legal hassles and risks) knowing that his time on earth was pretty severely limited (as he spoke about in the long letter to David Mayo in the early 80's)?

Only at his death just a couple years later to face the onerous job of moving the money from his personal control and accounts back to the COS and/or SO reserves into (facing enormous potential death tax liabilities, legal hassles and risks).

From what I understand, his family got only a tiny bit of the entire LRH estate, a few million, the balance of it going back into SO reserves or somewhere to further his religion.

The transfer of tens, hundreds of millions back and forth at his age and imperiled medical condition only tells me he was not "playing with a full deck" mentally at the time. Just never made sense to me and does not seem that well thought out of an "end-of-life" financial strategy.

I'm not that smart about high finance but I would know enough to not attempt the transfer of that much money (especially at his age and medical condition). He just didn't need it and couldn't spend it or benefit from it. :confused2:

To me this is reliable evidence of a deteriorating mental state and impaired thinking later on in his life.

Comments from anyone better informed than me?

This would be a great trail to follow up.....where did the money go? Why was it shuffled back and forth? What were the financial strategies...and why?

I suppose it is all somewhat "old" news....but even so....very interesting topic to me...

I guess the Parodi's were looking after Hub around that time? And DM too?

And who were the Cult's financial advisors...?

(I forgot how much, but didn't DM lose several millions of dollars playing around with an Oil Futures speculation investment around this time.)

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

This would be a great trail to follow up.....where did the money go? Why was it shuffled back and forth? What were the financial strategies...and why?

I suppose it is all somewhat "old" news....but even so....very interesting topic to me...

I guess the Parodi's were looking after Hub around that time? And DM too?

And who were the Cult's financial advisors...?

(I forgot how much, but didn't DM lose several millions of dollars playing around with an Oil Futures speculation investment around this time.)

Mark Fisher probably has the clearest view of the where and why the money goes where in this interview at about 42 minutes in Leland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cWZSE4LgMk

 

[Terril park]

That's a very interesting point. I have no evidence, but it somehow strikes me as immediately plausible. Little outposts of Scientology are indeed scattered all over the world, after all, and for all Miscavige's micromanagement, he is only one man. So now that you say it, it just seems obvious that there must really be at least two Churches of Scientology — sort of like the old Christian notion of the visible and invisible Church, only somewhat tilted.

Firstly there's the CofS market brand, with its shows and publications and websites and fundraising drives and fancy buildings. This brand is global, although not in the sense of being huge. It has money and spokespeople and lawyers. David Miscavige is firmly in charge of it.

But then there's the CofS as a somewhat loose association of actual people, in small to tiny groups scattered around the world. There are some thousands of these people, in total; at various times in the past, at least, there have been some tens of thousands. And in fact it might be worth distinguishing two Churches within this group: the loosely attached public and the local staff.

Any group bigger than a handful tends to develop layers like this. It's probably also worth recalling that Scientology is more like a business than like a religion, and whereas religions may have clergy and adherents, businesses have employees and customers. The Pope might have a hard time enforcing the excommunication of a lay Roman Catholic, but not even Steve Jobs could do anything at all to stop an Apple fanboy from buying iPads. So it was probably never reasonable to think that Miscavige should ever have had total control over all of Scientology. The connection between top and bottom of the pyramid was always bound to be rather loose.

But maybe there really are signs that in this case the looseness is approaching a point of dissolution. Maybe we'll see a lot of orgs pulling completely away from the central structure.

Remember "Command Intention" is senior to everything. Command intention decided on the 3 swing F/N and in effect made auditing impossible, command intention said everyone had to go back to do basics, thus auditor training stopped. And without auditing and training scientology is pointless. Don't forget that there are several different channels reporting up lines as to whether command intention is being followed.

 

[Enthetan]

No matter whether it's the squirrel busters or international executives, they always ambush in numbers.

It seems that they have to outnumber the person or persons they confront.

A sure sign that there are no OTs in that organization.

If there was just one, he might blow.

If there was just two, and one decided to blow, the other might not be able to stop him.

Three seems to be the minimum number.

 

[Boojuum]

Boojum, I hear you. There is warmth and understanding and compassion in your post above.
These are traits that Jenny does not have.
She is feared only 2nd to Miscavige.
Her power and cruelty is a copycat of DM, it has increased exponentially over the years. I could tell you 1000 stories of Jenny but won't waste my time.

But I will give you one anecdote of Jenny in action with "unlimited Ethics powers" to demonstrate her mind set.

Cece served at the Advanced Org Los Angeles AOLA mostly in Treasury for 20 years. She did everything in her power to serve her group at the time. Handling irate delinquent merchants who were fed up not being paid, she expertly managed it all even when numerous vendors were not paid for 90 days.

Money is siphoned off to the "Top of the Org Board" before merchants and vendors are paid.

Then one day Jenny deVocht CMO INT Executive and David Miscavige "PET#1" comes to Los Angeles with her mad lunatic THUGGERY powers and runs into Cece in the elevator. Cece is on a modified scheduled due to a health condition.

Jenny devocht (Linson) has found out about shorter schedule. She tells Cece "you have 15 minutes to pack your bags and get off the Base !" Thus 20 years of savage schedule, less than minimum wage and all contribution was rewarded with Cece ordered off the base leaving behind her kids and husband in the Sea org. There was no compassion that Cece had served 20 years and has a little medical condition needing a modified schedule. She was kicked out for not being able to work ENOUGH.

Cece was thrown out on the curb. There was no $500 parting money to make it for the first week, she was slung out onto L Ron Hubbard Way penniless and with her remaining family left in the Sea Org.

20 years of slave labor, no health insurance, no pension, no retirement. "Get off our property in 15 minutes !" That is Jenny Devocht. The Gestapo Nazi identity could change a life in 15 mins. The year was 1995/1996

I had Cece over to my home for Thanksgiving dinner last year with a bunch of others who made it through the hell and survived. Even now, 20 years later Cece's tears rolled down her cheeks at dinner at how she was brutally kicked off and out enforcing family disconnection impoverished, destitute and without a cent to her name.

A Jenny Linsen PRODUCT.!

This is the Cult. So what else is new ?​

Cece Marie Smith

Thanks AGAIN Karen. Great story! Please continue!

I love these stories. These are the stories that do more to hurt the reputation of the COS than just about anything else.

There's a unique style to a Scieno exec yelling that's a combination of make-wrong, bullying rage, venting, self-righteousness and proof of Scieno-indoctrination. "Never fear to hurt another in a just cause." Where being ruthless is a virtue.

Yet, in truth, this special Scientology style of yelling is a learned behavior, sanctified by a stressed-out, narcissistic LRH. The yelling is an act of selfish self-adulation that is completely ineffective outside of Scientology and stupid.

In the above story about Jenny and Cece, Jenny's vicious behavior only makes sense if you're more focused on proving your power than creating an effective organization. It's a delusional "management" style in an effort to build a delusional team.

This management "tech" is used over and over and over and is a key reason why the world of Scientology is shrinking.

It's DOMINATION, not freeing. It's the opposite of what Scientology claims to achieve.

Methinks the reason she and DM keep doing this is because it's the ONLY thing they know how to do well. As soon as one leaves the cloistered world of the SO, VICIOUSNESS doesn't work anymore. No one has to worry about being RPF'd or losing their family forever.

Top Scientology Management, where the total destruction of another--emotionally, physically, spiritually, and financially is completely okay, even encouraged.

Kinda sick.

 

[Gib]

No matter whether it's the squirrel busters or international executives, they always ambush in numbers.

It seems that they have to outnumber the person or persons they confront.

A sure sign that there are no OTs in that organization.

The reason why they always ambush in numbers is because LRH said in RJ67 that a group of OT's is needed to handle an area,

This statement by LRH was made because he alone could not handle Rhodesia, thus he says a group of OT's are needed to handle an area. Of course, LRH in the tape is talking to Scientologists in the bubble of scientology that the states of "clear" and "OT" are possible.

This is Hubbard's use of Rhetoric and Sublime.

One can change Hubbard's statement of "a group of OT's is needed to handle an area" to

" a group of people are needed to handle an area"

Translation: OT's = regular folks.

 

[Lulu Belle]

But I will give you one anecdote of Jenny in action with "unlimited Ethics powers" to demonstrate her mind set.

Cece served at the Advanced Org Los Angeles AOLA mostly in Treasury for 20 years. She did everything in her power to serve her group at the time. Handling irate delinquent merchants who were fed up not being paid, she expertly managed it all even when numerous vendors were not paid for 90 days.

Money is siphoned off to the "Top of the Org Board" before merchants and vendors are paid.

Then one day Jenny deVocht CMO INT Executive and David Miscavige "PET#1" comes to Los Angeles with her mad lunatic THUGGERY powers and runs into Cece in the elevator. Cece is on a modified scheduled due to a health condition.

Jenny devocht (Linson) has found out about shorter schedule. She tells Cece "you have 15 minutes to pack your bags and get off the Base !" Thus 20 years of savage schedule, less than minimum wage and all contribution was rewarded with Cece ordered off the base leaving behind her kids and husband in the Sea org. There was no compassion that Cece had served 20 years and has a little medical condition needing a modified schedule. She was kicked out for not being able to work ENOUGH.

Cece was thrown out on the curb. There was no $500 parting money to make it for the first week, she was slung out onto L Ron Hubbard Way penniless and with her remaining family left in the Sea Org.

20 years of slave labor, no health insurance, no pension, no retirement. "Get off our property in 15 minutes !" That is Jenny Devocht. The Gestapo Nazi identity could change a life in 15 mins. The year was 1995/1996

I had Cece over to my home for Thanksgiving dinner last year with a bunch of others who made it through the hell and survived. Even now, 20 years later Cece's tears rolled down her cheeks at dinner at how she was brutally kicked off and out enforcing family disconnection impoverished, destitute and without a cent to her name.

A Jenny Linsen PRODUCT.!

This is the Cult. So what else is new ?
​

Cece Marie Smith

Mariette Linsteen was the I/C of the original RTC inspection which precipitated this whole DeVocht run ethics mission into PAC.

Cathy Rinder was the one who announced the mission to the PAC crew. Not sure exactly what part she played in it, but she was definitely heavily involved.

The Mission Ops of that mission was Bitty Miscavige.

She either approved or ordered everything Jenny DeVocht did.

Jenny Linson was the Bitch From Hell, but (at least at the time) she had some very like minded company.

Just sayin'....

 

[Boojuum]

Mariette Linsteen was the I/C of the original RTC inspection which precipitated this whole DeVocht run ethics mission into PAC.

Cathy Rinder was the one who announced the mission to the PAC crew. Not sure exactly what part she played in it, but she was definitely heavily involved.

The Mission Ops of that mission was Bitty Miscavige.

She either approved or ordered everything Jenny DeVocht did.

Jenny Linson was the Bitch From Hell, but (at least at the time) she had some very like minded company.

Just sayin'....

Becoming a ruthless Prick/Bitch from Hell IS the correct beingness for a Scieno exec. It's indoctrinated. It's the ONLY acceptable persona for an SO exec.

How many Jennys or Cathys or Bittys are there?

Becoming "ruthless" and "unreasonable" in demanding complete dominance of anyone with a less prestigious position IS the key to survival in the COS.

"You have 15 minutes to pack your bags and leave the base." NO decency, NO compassion, NO understanding, but plenty of rage and plenty of approval for acting like an insane, power-hungry, soulless bully.

The long term results of this behavior are just devastating. It was 19 years ago and Cece is still suffering. I bet there are thousands who suffered similarly.

The order, "You have 15 minutes to pack your bags and leave the base." is crazy on so many levels.

Who does that kind of stuff in the real world?

Who sends his top execs to ambush a departed employee?

Thuggery has NOTHING to do with the stated purpose of the COS but EVERYTHING to do with a paranoid attack mentality that thugs thrive on.

Bullying seems to be the only tool that Davey is good at, but he was trained by a master.

Sick behavior with catastrophic results.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Mariette Linsteen was the I/C of the original RTC inspection which precipitated this whole DeVocht run ethics mission into PAC.

Cathy Rinder was the one who announced the mission to the PAC crew. Not sure exactly what part she played in it, but she was definitely heavily involved.

The Mission Ops of that mission was Bitty Miscavige.

She either approved or ordered everything Jenny DeVocht did.

Jenny Linson was the Bitch From Hell, but (at least at the time) she had some very like minded company.

Just sayin'....

The trouble is that the people involved have yet to understand what they did to one person - if they ever come to realize what they did to Cece, what absolute hell they unleashed on a true believer who could not defend herself - then they would have to face the fact that they are truly damned. their one chance at any start to redemption would be to start with her and making it as right as they can before their chance disappears forever.

 

[Bee Sting]

They are so eh, "stupidefied" by the real world! Typical cult behavior "do as I say and get a real life" (control-my way or the hi-way) and "you are so" (evaluative this is what's wrong with you) Truth here is plain and simple!

You control your own life by making your own decisions not by someone else deciding for you or on your own behalf to what is the substance of your own real life. More precisely, what you consider to be your own real life may not the same as some one else's (like in this video.) Whom you are or what you want to be per "them" does not apply in the "real"world" and to the contrary, these people's despicably behavior, "we the people" have the the right to our own pursuit of happiness.

What you want to be or become lie in your own achievements and not in the judgmental opinion of someone else like we are seeing in this video. And, secondly what you are and whom you are is entirely up to you and the comment "you are so.." does not apply ~ not in any circumstance or situation! It is evaluating your case! So, FAIL! Epic fail from the original tech from LRH. He'll will turn over in his grave. These people so goofed the flute. And I would think PTS-3 handling is on order .. and another what? $ 750? is it more? ...Darn, it's been so long.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

 

[Lulu Belle]

It was only years later after I got out that I learned about the abuse of staff by DM at ASI. Stacy Young was a staff member there at one time and wrote quite a bit about what went on there when she used to post to ARS. Unfortunately a lot of the ARS archives have disappeared. At some point I'll try to dig up some of the stuff she talked about. It made me a lot less envious of their supposed "status", believe me. They were up close to the Miscavige insanity and it was not fun.

I don't know why I had such a hard time finding this, but here is some stuff re: Miscavige's treatment of ASI staff. Here's a piece of it. Check out the link if you want to read the whole thing.


http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/docs/declaration-stacy-brooks-9march1994.txt

161. I worked directly with Miscavige while I was at ASI. I was horrified to
discover that the senior-most person in Scientology, who had daily contact with
Scientologists and the public, was a ruthless, vicious, megalomaniacal tyrant. I
had never worked with Hubbard personally, but I learned from others who
had that Hubbard was the same way. I was told that Hubbard was prone to the same
petulant temper tantrums that were daily occurrences with Miscavige.

162. Miscavige's style of management was exemplified by screaming profanities
and terrorizing the staff. This is entirely consistent with the Hubbard Tech
which features "Ethics Presence." Senior managers are taught to manage by
instilling fear and terror in their subordinates. As the most senior manager,
Miscavige had to instill terror in all his subordinates in order to be in
compliance with orthodox Scientology management techniques.

163. One day Miscavige gave me an insight into why he acted the way he did. He
knew I did not approve of his cursing at the top of his lungs. We were
having an executive meeting, and in the middle of a sentence he suddenly turned
to me, very seriously, and said, "You think I yell loudly, but you've never
heard anyone yell until you've heard LRH [Hubbard]. I'll never be able to scream
the way he does. But Stacy, that's the only way to get compliance." This
was confirmation that he was acting deliberately and calculatingly in accordance
with the dictates of the Hubbard Tech.

164. I realized then that Miscavige was trying to become as much like Hubbard as
he could, and that he was preparing to take Hubbard's place when Hubbard
died.

165. Anyone who disagreed with Miscavige or challenged his authority in any way
was branded by Miscavige as a traitor who was out to destroy
Scientology. This was why David Mayo was ousted, along with most of his staff.
Many others were thrown out in 1981 and 1982 and replaced with people
who would obey Miscavige's orders unquestioningly. Ray Mithoff, who replaced
Mayo, is today one of Miscavige's top lieutenants. John Nelson, head of
the CMO and director of all the Scientology organizations, was also ousted by
Miscavige and replaced by a loyal follower, Marc Yager. Today Yager is
another one of Miscavige's top people.

166. Hubbard was still alive when I was at ASI in 1982, and every staff member
in ASI was required to report to Hubbard every week on the status of his or
her sector of Scientology. No one slept from Tuesday to Friday because Miscavige
ordered that no one could leave until he had approved their weekly
report to Hubbard. Miscavige repeatedly rejected the reports, insisting that
they be rewritten until they were perfectly worded to appear that Miscavige had
everything fully under control. No one was allowed to send any communication to
Hubbard that wasn't edited by Miscavige (which meant that Hubbard
effectively did not really know what was going on from 1981 until his death).
This grueling schedule left the entire staff in terrible shape physically, and
extremely vulnerable to Miscavige's brutal, coercive manipulation.

167. At that time the ASI offices were on the ninth floor of an office building
in downtown Hollywood, yet people could hear Miscavige screaming down on
the street, a block away. It was disgusting to see how he treated anyone he
viewed as not fully "with him."

Miscavige's Treatment of his Staff Was Horrifying

168. Jim Isaacson, for example, was in charge of investing Hubbard's money, and
he was expected to show a profit on a weekly basis. Anyone familiar with
the investment business knows this is not a realistic expectation, but Jim's job
depended upon his showing an increasing profit every week. Predictably,
Jim was not doing well at all. He was not eating or sleeping. Miscavige was
screaming mercilessly at Jim every day. Jim was near the breaking point.

169. One day Miscavige found out that Jim had lost a large amount of money by
investing incorrectly in the gold market. Miscavige summoned two of his
top lieutenants, Norman Starkey and Terri Gamboa. Miscavige and Starkey
literally dragged Jim into the conference room.

170. My office was right across the hall so I heard everything that went on. For
the next three and a half hours Miscavige screamed profanities and wild,
paranoid accusations at Jim, demanding to know who had sent him to destroy
Scientology, was he working for the IRS, was he working for the FBI, what
other enemy agents were working with him inside Scientology, etc., etc., ad
nauseam. I heard Jim repeatedly deny the accusations, and Miscavige's response
was to scream at him even more.

171. Finally Miscavige threw open the door and stormed into my office. He
ordered me to go in and get the information out of Jim and not let him leave
until he'd confessed everything. I'd never seen anyone behave like Miscavige
before. (As stated above, while I was on this post and later while I was in the
RPF, I learned from others that Miscavige's behavior mimicked Hubbard's.)

172. Miscavige was very frightening. When he was worked up his conduct was
consistent with what I later learned was a psychotic episode. Miscavige
appeared to be completely out of control. He screamed profanities at the top of
his lungs directly in my face. Others who went past my office kept their eyes
averted and walked by as quickly as possible. Finally, he marched down the hall
(with Norman and Terri following) and slammed the door of his office.

173. When I went into the conference room I found Jim collapsed on the table.
His eyes were glazed and he was shaking uncontrollably. Rather than
complying with Miscavige's order to continue the interrogation, I did my best to
calm Jim down, as he was clearly terrified, and told him to go home and
get some sleep. Jim was on the RPF within days.

174. Part of Jim's terror arose from the fact that Miscavige had already sent
Jim's wife, Joyce, to the RPF for refusing to go along with his brutal treatment
of
staff. I knew about this because I replaced Joyce. I was dispatched to the RPF
shortly thereafter because I objected to the same abuses.

175. No one could speak out against Miscavige's terror tactics because there was
no way to have a discussion with him on the subject. The RPF filled up
with people who tried to stand up to him. He surrounded himself with people who
were willing to do whatever he ordered. I tried several times to protest and
ended up in more and more trouble as the weeks went on. Finally Miscavige lost
his temper at me one night and threw me into my office, locked the door,
and screamed at me until finally I felt I would lose my mind if he did net stop.
I had not slept for several days, and I snapped.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Becoming a ruthless Prick/Bitch from Hell IS the correct beingness for a Scieno exec. It's indoctrinated. It's the ONLY acceptable persona for an SO exec.

How many Jennys or Cathys or Bittys are there?

Becoming "ruthless" and "unreasonable" in demanding complete dominance of anyone with a less prestigious position IS the key to survival in the COS.

"You have 15 minutes to pack your bags and leave the base." NO decency, NO compassion, NO understanding, but plenty of rage and plenty of approval for acting like an insane, power-hungry, soulless bully.

The long term results of this behavior are just devastating. It was 19 years ago and Cece is still suffering. I bet there are thousands who suffered similarly.

The order, "You have 15 minutes to pack your bags and leave the base." is crazy on so many levels.

Who does that kind of stuff in the real world?

Who sends his top execs to ambush a departed employee?

Thuggery has NOTHING to do with the stated purpose of the COS but EVERYTHING to do with a paranoid attack mentality that thugs thrive on.

Bullying seems to be the only tool that Davey is good at, but he was trained by a master.

Sick behavior with catastrophic results.

Excellent post and question.

I am not sure "who does that". But, we can standardly list it and find out. . .

L&N
WHO DOES THAT IN THE REAL WORLD?

​

A psychopath .....x

A nazi rounding up Jews.....x

A Clear with an MU .....x

A bloodthirsty terrorist.....x

An SP.....small fall

An uptone, ethical OT making it go right.....LFBD F/N (indicated)​

 

[strativarius]

L&N
WHO DOES THAT IN THE REAL WORLD?

A psychopath .....x

A nazi rounding up Jews.....x

A Clear with an MU .....x

A bloodthirsty terrorist.....x

An SP.....small fall

An uptone, ethical OT making it go right.....LFBD F/N (indicated)

VWD!!!

ESMB C/S

​

 

[Veda]

-snip-

No one was allowed to send any communication to
Hubbard that wasn't edited by Miscavige (which meant that Hubbard
effectively did not really know what was going on from 1981 until his death).

-snip-

Ahem. This one little part of Stacy Brooks' statement is not entirely accurate, especially in 1981 and 1982.

To the extent that Hubbard didn't know, it was because he didn't care.

Certain things were important to Hubbard and certain things were not important.

Hubbard wanted money and more money. He didn't want to be subpoenaed or stand before any judges. It wasn't necessary for Miscavige to convince him of that.

David Mayo was disobedient to Hubbard's wishes. Bill Franks (once upon a time, the "Executive Director International") was disobedient to Hubbard's wishes. Miscavige didn't need to invent that disobedience, it already existed. The Mission Holders were rebelling against what they perceived as illegality. There was no need for Miscavige to invent a rebellion by them. The illegality was real, and Hubbard knew it was real since he had authorized it in the first place.

Hubbard was not trapped somewhere, or being held against his will, and unable to communicate. He was free to communicate as he pleased.

Jesse Prince and, in recent times, Bill Franks, and even Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, have provided information that has contradicted the simplistic "Hubbard didn't know" assertion.

Of course, now it's Miscavige who "doesn't know" and is not supposed to be accountable.

Which brings up the topic of the fate of the three in the video. Have they disappeared completely? Will we ever see them again?

 

[Lulu Belle]

Ahem. This one little part of Stacy Brooks' statement is not entirely accurate, especially in 1981 and 1982.

To the extent that Hubbard didn't know, it was because he didn't care.

Certain things were important to Hubbard and certain things were not important.

Hubbard wanted money and more money. He didn't want to be subpoenaed or stand before any judges. It wasn't necessary for Miscavige to convince him of that.

David Mayo was disobedient to Hubbard's wishes. Bill Franks (once upon a time, the "Executive Director International") was disobedient to Hubbard's wishes. Miscavige didn't need to invent that disobedience, it already existed. The Mission Holders were rebelling against what they perceived as illegality. There was no need for Miscavige to invent a rebellion by them. The illegality was real, and Hubbard knew it was real since he had authorized it in the first place.

Hubbard was not trapped somewhere, or being held against his will, and unable to communicate. He was free to communicate as he pleased.

Jesse Prince and, in recent times, Bill Franks, and even Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, have provided information that has contradicted the simplistic "Hubbard didn't know" assertion.

Of course, now it's Miscavige who "doesn't know" and is not supposed to be accountable.

Which brings up the topic of the fate of the three in the video. Have they disappeared completely? Will we ever see them again?

I hear ya, Veda.

I think what you're saying is either 100% true or has a huge amount of truth to it.

I do believe Stacy when she said DM was vetting everything Hubbard saw to make him look good.

But I also believe that Hubbard really didn't give a shit, as long as he perceived he was still running things and the money continued to pour in.

 

[Leland]

As "only" a public....back when Bill Franks was taken out.....the "rumor" floating around the cult public (Pac Base) was that he was discovered to have been a CIA plant.

Can any former SO here, (or public) verify this please....and possible say how these types of rumors get started....and their purpose.

Edited: Is there a rumor starting Department within OSA? or higher up in the Cult?

 

[Mick Wenlock]

As "only" a public....back when Bill Franks was taken out.....the "rumor" floating around the cult public was that he was discovered to have been a CIA plant.

Can any former SO here, (or public) verify this please....and possible say how these types of rumors get started....and their purpose.

Edited: It there a rumor starting Department within OSA? or higher up in the Cult?

Well I cannot speak for other areas but in EU Bill franks was not at all well known and the one visit he made when I was there merely reinforced the idea that he was odd. I emphasize that I had then ( and don't now) have any special insight or knowledge of Bill himself. He was very stiff and stand offish in the one meeting I saw him in.

Kerry Gleason was much more appealing and from what I remember in talking to the other SO Org CO's he was pretty damned popular.

 

[TG1]

In the PAC area, Bill Franks was widely "known" by public (after he was persona non grata) to have been a terrible creature. I also heard the CIA plant story.

I have never been involved in any culture or enterprise or organization in which I swallowed more rumors and bullshit as gospel. I look back and can't believe I was so fucking gullible.

Scientologists today are no different than I was when I was a cult member.

 

[Leland]

In the PAC area, Bill Franks was widely "known" by public (after he was persona non grata) to have been a terrible creature. I also heard the CIA plant story.

I have never been involved in any culture or enterprise or organization in which I swallowed more rumors and bullshit as gospel. I look back and can't believe I was so fucking gullible.

Scientologists today are no different than I was when I was a cult member.

Yea, tell me about it. Geeze.

Well, as far as the Bill Franks CIA plant story/rumor.....I never bought it. Besides....He had been in the SO at that time over 2 DECADES....at least. How could the Cult have been so stupid, if he was a plant to not have found out sooner.....was my way of looking at it. It was a ridiculous rumor IMO.

Plus....his former wife, Jeanne Franks....was hailed at a big Event at the Shrine to have "opened" Japan to the Cult....and was running the new org there.

How could Bill have been a CIA plant....and Jeanne not known about it?

To me it was a foot bullet....thought I didn't know that term back then. The Cult in my estimation certainly shot themselves in the foot with that rumor. (but I continued in the Cult fog....)


EDITED: Another rumor I heard, years later, was that Franks was "selling used cars," somewhere in Northern Cali......

Of course...that fits right in to the story of him being a CIA agent plant....LOL LOL LOL