Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: Standard Scientology

Lone Star

Crusader
I don't have any problem with someone believing in space opera or Jeeebus or whatnot. I really don't. But I do have a king size problem with going after people. I have seen some Freezoners do it. When a certain FZer's wife's predatory actions were discussed on a certain yahoo group list, some of the people there just went apeshit and their ire was not directed toward the FZer or his wife. They tried to excuse it and say that the actions were deserved.

I am very sorry that I am not familiar with the events you've described. I am not questioning you- I would just like to know if you have a link or something I could read. Because what you describe is something that is very wrong.

Thank you.

Yes FBM please provide a link for some claire-ification.

Ms. Swazey has some sway over in Milestone land. She'll get to the bottom of this and have the offenders de-claired. :yes:
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think Marty's post is spot on. And he actually summarizes what most people here are saying.

Just different words. :confused2:

I don't mean to put Marty down, but for some reason he has cultivated a writing style that seems deliberately confusing in an attempt to sound philosophical and profound.

I agree with you about the content of Marty's post. The interesting thing is he doesn't speak Rathbunese in interviews and normal conversation, where I find him absolutely clear. But I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, and I have had more than average WTF moments after reading his posts.

I'm glad Marty is speaking out, however he says it, but I think his writing can be a cautionary tale to anyone wanting to send their children to Scientology schools. In my opinion, he sounds like someone who's simply read too much Hubbard. Dianetics, when I've tried to read that has the same impenetrable, circumlocutory style.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Wow! His blog today has 681 comments in only 3 days! He hasn't had that many comments on one post since .... since his one-time True Blue Believers all bailed out months ago! (Now I guess he's left with the haters and natterers like us - LOL)

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/standard-scientology-2/#comments

(edit: Of course the 681 comments are from the same dozen people it seems. Wow, what a circle jerk going on over there!)

closing in a a thousand comments. All circle-jerking to the beat of a distant drummer.

Man, I scanned through some of that crap for about twenty minutes and began to wonder why anyone would bother to spend time reading it--much less responding and arguing.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't mean to put Marty down, but for some reason he has cultivated a writing style that seems deliberately confusing in an attempt to sound philosophical and profound.

I agree with you about the content of Marty's post. The interesting thing is he doesn't speak Rathbunese in interviews and normal conversation, where I find him absolutely clear. But I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, and I have had more than average WTF moments after reading his posts.

I'm glad Marty is speaking out, however he says it, but I think his writing can be a cautionary tale to anyone wanting to send their children to Scientology schools. In my opinion, he sounds like someone who's simply read too much Hubbard. Dianetics, when I've tried to read that has the same impenetrable, circumlocutory style.

Not only has Marty adopted many of Hubbard's literary tendencies, he's never wrong--just like Hubbie. And he'll attack relentlessly those who suggest he is.

Like a lot of former Scientologists, he may have switched sides, but his anti-Scientology clothing is made from the same fabric he wore being pro. It's the same persona: Us against them. We are always right. Nothing you say is true unless you agree with us. ​I must hammer out of existence your wrong ideas. A sociopath (the bad guy) lacks conscience and compassion, therefore I (the good guy) am only acting for your benefit by beating the misconceptions out of your head and forcing you to see the truth--wouldn't it show my lack of compassion by allowing you to continue to be so stupid as to disagree with me?
Marty comes across as being one pissed off individual who knows more and better than anyone else.

Not the kind of personality I would trust to evaluate anything. You'e always going to get a twisted, self-serving bias from the analysis.

Kind of ironic his belief in the Tao evaluated against his behavior. Not unusual. Just typically hypocritical.

Marty's progress, as with most of us, will mostly come when he learns to be relaxed and tolerant about his own foolishness and pretenses.

Obfuscated writing is indicative of muddled thinking. Clear minds (not to be confused with Hubbard's nonsense) write clearly. When you see ideas clearly and organize them appropriately, writing easily understood sentences usually follows naturally.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Can anyone change who they really are? We can change view points but we take our astigmatism with us.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
. . .
Ron complained somewhere on the study tapes that colleges didn't make
philosophers who can philosophize. :no:

Well, application of his tech for thirty years made one who can: Marty!

Albeit he's a bit obtuse for the average person to "grok." :confused2:

Lacks the common touch.

HEADACHE.jpg
 
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Gib

Crusader
. . .
Ron complained somewhere on the study tapes that colleges didn't make
philosophers who can philosophize. :no:

Well, application of his tech for thirty years made one who can: Marty!

Albeit he's a bit obtuse for the average person to "grok." :confused2:

Lacks the common touch.

HEADACHE.jpg

Marty says:


"I have found efforts over the past year and one half to help people graduate from the subject to not be very popular nor worth the effort that goes into doing so. While some of what I have already worked on along that line may appear from time to time on this blog, the focus will veer more toward speaking to the general public – as opposed to the formers, the antis, and indies. The blog continues to serve as a chronicle of my own journey guided by my conscience – for whatever that is worth – and you can expect it to tend toward speaking to the increasing percentage of audience who are unfamiliar with the subject. It may well even tend toward unrelated subjects. There are plenty other forums where positive reinforcement of existing anti, pro, indie, and ex scientology views can be had. I hope for all of you that at some point in the not too distant future you will find your own comfortable, fulfilling middle path."

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/back-to-the-middle/
 

DoneDeal

Patron Meritorious
I don't mean to put Marty down, but for some reason he has cultivated a writing style that seems deliberately confusing in an attempt to sound philosophical and profound.

I agree with you about the content of Marty's post. The interesting thing is he doesn't speak Rathbunese in interviews and normal conversation, where I find him absolutely clear. But I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, and I have had more than average WTF moments after reading his posts.

I'm glad Marty is speaking out, however he says it, but I think his writing can be a cautionary tale to anyone wanting to send their children to Scientology schools. In my opinion, he sounds like someone who's simply read too much Hubbard. Dianetics, when I've tried to read that has the same impenetrable, circumlocutory style.


Great observation.

Reading, and worse, studying lrh's stuff inside one of those "academies" was a real big headache. Plug in the word clearing etc and it was miserable.

And after I read enough of the pages I really got to feeling I was reading in circles. It's nuts and useless.

Now that isn't a comment on Marty's recent words, I was able to get his idea. But it is pretty "something" besides just saying "Hey, lrh's stuff sucked". Which is pretty much all I'm capable of saying.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
I don't have any problem with someone believing in space opera or Jeeebus or whatnot. I really don't. But I do have a king size problem with going after people. I have seen some Freezoners do it. When a certain FZer's wife's predatory actions were discussed on a certain yahoo group list, some of the people there just went apeshit and their ire was not directed toward the FZer or his wife. They tried to excuse it and say that the actions were deserved.

I am very sorry that I am not familiar with the events you've described. I am not questioning you- I would just like to know if you have a link or something I could read. Because what you describe is something that is very wrong.

Thank you.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...og-Milestone-Two-attacks-critic-Chris-Shelton
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
I don't mean to put Marty down, but for some reason he has cultivated a writing style that seems deliberately confusing in an attempt to sound philosophical and profound.

I agree with you about the content of Marty's post. The interesting thing is he doesn't speak Rathbunese in interviews and normal conversation, where I find him absolutely clear. But I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, and I have had more than average WTF moments after reading his posts.

I'm glad Marty is speaking out, however he says it, but I think his writing can be a cautionary tale to anyone wanting to send their children to Scientology schools. In my opinion, he sounds like someone who's simply read too much Hubbard. Dianetics, when I've tried to read that has the same impenetrable, circumlocutory style.

He did suggest in a prior post that his audience was going to be journalists and outside publications, so possibly excerpts can be quoted without all the 'lingo', perhaps the explanations in his posts are deliberate. His approach is definitely changing now that he's made the transition from indie leader to full blown critic.

Initially I thought the post was rather patronising, but 900 comments later was evidence of his observation that: You wind up with the curious phenomenon of apparently sincere people devoting their lives to vehemently defending their own entrapment.
 
I don't mean to put Marty down, but for some reason he has cultivated a writing style that seems deliberately confusing in an attempt to sound philosophical and profound.

I agree with you about the content of Marty's post. The interesting thing is he doesn't speak Rathbunese in interviews and normal conversation, where I find him absolutely clear. But I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, and I have had more than average WTF moments after reading his posts.

I'm glad Marty is speaking out, however he says it, but I think his writing can be a cautionary tale to anyone wanting to send their children to Scientology schools. In my opinion, he sounds like someone who's simply read too much Hubbard. Dianetics, when I've tried to read that has the same impenetrable, circumlocutory style.

He does seem to be using a style which is a bit more about the style than being clear (no pun intended). Actually, with some of it I see it rolling out and it's like watching two acrobats or a gymnast: how is this sentence going to end in one piece....how is coherence going to be saved from disaster considering the ongoing leaps and twists of academic eloquence? I must admit I am a bit impressed how he brings it off generally without too much damage. I prefer clarity though, even if I am not always clear myself.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Just to be clear, let's use another example for a moment. How did the largest MAFIA collapse in history occur? It was caused by the same phenomenon--a high ranking mafia member learning of "senior management's" (i.e. John Gotti) trashing them and plotting their demise. In Gotti's case, the FBI had obtained hundreds of hours of surveillance audio which they were not shy about playing for Mafia thug #2, Sammy "The Bull" Gravano who was the underboss to Gotti and his closest friend. When Sammy heard (and realized) that he was no exception to the list of people the boss despised and likely would soon whack out, he did the unforgivable, turning states witness. And he literally knew where all the bodies were buried, having carried out a couple dozen murders himself at the behest of the mob's or his own money-centric crime rackets.

If Travolta or Cruise heard or saw videotape of Miscavige reading their pc folder aloud, laughing and "degrading" them to other Sea Org members, they might pack up and head over the psychologically inward facing barbs surrounding Scientology celebs. I cannot believe the reason they stay is other than the abject terror they contemplate when considering what kind of damage Miscavige can do to their careers, reputations and life if he leaks their session withholds. I honestly think it's that simple and their cognitive dissonance kicks into a hyper-gear to prevent even thinking about that.

I remember when I was at Flag Bureaux in the early 80's, some CMO played an LRH tape for us. In that tape, LRH praised the SO, and disparaged Class IV org staff.

Having been one of those Class IV org staff who I was now hearing LRH mock, I remember thinking "If he talks about Class IV staff to us that way, I wonder what he says about us to CMO?". I didn't say it to anybody, but it was a serious moment of disillusion for me.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
''

Been a bit busy so missed this latest revelation on Marty's journey out. He's nearly there, by the look of things. Ten years its taken, poor sod, and still some way to go. Now that the mind-fuck has largely evaporated, what's next? My fantasy is watching David Miscavige dissolve into tears as, on the day of his eventual deposition, Marty walks into the venue with Gerry Armstrong at his side.
 

Gib

Crusader
. . .
Over a 1,000 comments about the article.

Is that a "highest ever" for him?
:biggrin:

1000.jpeg


It might be, don't know.

But you have to break down those over 1000 posts to analyze who is trying to convince who.

There are only a few posters who are trying to convince scientology is the bomb, and a few who are saying it sucks, but has some value.

Remember Marty said

" You wind up with the curious phenomenon of apparently sincere people devoting their lives to vehemently defending their own entrapment."

As far as I can read in the comments,

we have a few folks defending their entrapment, a few folks trying to explain they are entrapped.

It's the allegory of the cave, plato

and mind you Marty is saying this, just in different words.

that's my take. YMMV and you may not understand what I'm say'in. But it donno matter for me whether you agree or disagree. LOL
 
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Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
He did suggest in a prior post that his audience was going to be journalists and outside publications, so possibly excerpts can be quoted without all the 'lingo', perhaps the explanations in his posts are deliberate. His approach is definitely changing now that he's made the transition from indie leader to full blown critic.

Initially I thought the post was rather patronising, but 900 comments later was evidence of his observation that: You wind up with the curious phenomenon of apparently sincere people devoting their lives to vehemently defending their own entrapment.


I appreciate your bringing attention to that particular line because I think it is a incredible one and absolutely devastating, and not just for Scientologists, but for all of us - addicts, co-dependents, etc.

While I do think that Marty is a mess sometimes, he is a gorgeous mess as we watch him deprogram himself from Scientology right in front of our faces. I've been posting on this site off and on for a while now and I have seen a powerful shift in Marty during that time and I think he has courage. And it is endlessly fascinating to to watch Rathbun and Rinder, (someone please write an opera about them!), DM's top lieutenants, defecting and betraying him and the cause they dedicated their lives to.

I think there is a artistic, voluptuous side to Marty, and I believe he tries to bring that side of himself to his writing. He just needs to know that sometimes less is truly more.
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I agree with your posts about Marty's style of writting.

Till his last few posts, I couldn't get what he was talking about..not at all...
I thought it was a language barrier - though, I usually don't have any ''understanding'' issue.

What I think, is that Marty is in a ''intellectualization'' phase - he needs to size his experience though studying philosphies, religions, psychologies...it's like if he has a bulimia of studying anything that can relate to his experience in the cult, to graps understanding, and needs to share his cognitions as a universal truth!

(may be his decades in the cult as a leader can't be erase easily ..)

Anyway, till he moves on, I think he will find more and moresimple truth of life , and his answers within himself, and makes everything simple - instead of a philosophical academic complicate transmutation of a soul experience.
I recall I had such a phase.

I am certain he only began to impressed us!
What I am more interested in, is the recovery of his humanity, sens of compassion, empathy, with regards to his cult enforcer background.

Baby William may be of great help to daddy, in this specific field !
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
I remember one poster talking about how we should just trust Ron and not question motives because Ron cared and loved us sooooo much and him being all theta and all that and Marty actually said something to the affect that a person should question. I wish I could find that post now as it really illustrates the cognitive dissonance that seems to be the latest buzz word as well as showing the first cracks in Marty's PR.

Found it...


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?30151-Marty-L-Ron-Hubbard-by-Tom-Martiniano/page2
 
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