Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: The Scientology Sandbox

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: The Scientology Sandbox.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/10/14/the-scientology-sandbox/

* * * * * BEGIN QUOTATION * * * * *

There are those who dismiss L. Ron Hubbard as the consummate con man. They insist that with conscious aforethought he created and operated dianetics and scientology as a fraudulent bait and switch operation fooling and fleecing tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of relatively intelligent adults. So cunning was Hubbard according to some anti-scientologists that if you were to take their words for granted you would have to rank Hubbard as one of the more able and intelligent minds of the twentieth century. The complexity, the breadth, and the duration of Hubbard’s alleged fraudulent scheme would be a virtual impossibility for any mere mortal to accomplish.

At the opposite extreme pole hard core scientologists truly believe that L. Ron Hubbard was ‘Source’, a sort of God from which nothing but ultimate truth was issued. They have trained their own minds to reject any information even tangentially relating to mind or spirit that does not come from Hubbard’s mouth or pen.

The anti-scientologist with his name-calling, absolutist statements and lampooning serves to reinforce the scientologist believer’s conviction that Hubbard and scientology deserve undaunting and vigilant defense. Likewise, the Ron-quoting scientologist’s aggressive certitude serves to reinforce the anti-scientologists’ views that Hubbard’s work is good for nothing more than creating unthinking, conformist zealots.

Members of either side of the scientology extremes demonstrate as severe a case of denialism as the other. As with any hotly contested, complex issue denialists cling hard to simple answers that make them comfortable with putting difficult questions out of sight and out of mind. It seems that in the scientology world L. Ron Hubbard is either God or Satan. One won’t find much truth on either side of a passionate debate between denialists, whether the subject is politics, science, philosophy or scientology. But, if one listens without embracing one side or the other the minute it seems to agree with one’s prejudices and intelligently looks for oneself, one will generally find that the truth lies somewhere between the polar extremes.

We will explore the reasons why those affected by scientology in the long-term continue to act out scientology’s patented us vs. them drama behavior and why that holds true even for those who become virulent critics of the subject.

It is quite easy to understand why someone gets involved in scientology in the first place. Scientology includes features that play well to those going through the adolescent stage of human development. That stage was well summed up by James W. Fowler in his book Stages of Faith:

New expectations, qualitatively different disciplines and a host of difficult decisions are the requirements with which societies greet the now more womanly or manly adolescent. In trying to meet and fulfill these requisites youth will call on the available and personally resonant ideological resources of their environments, particularly those that are embodied in charismatic and convincing leaders. They will seek sponsoring groups and figures and will appoint otherwise well-meaning persons as temporary enemies over against whom their identities may be clarified. They may band together in tight cliques, overemphasizing some relatively trivial commonality as a symbol of shared identity. In this cliquishness they can be quite cruel as they exclude those who do not share this common element.

What is so unique about scientology is not that it at first capitalizes on this adolescent growth stage and its needs. Instead, it is that scientology manages to implant within the scientologist’s sub conscious that this stage is as far as development goes. By continually communicating constructs as reality with a convincing combination of charisma and certainty, Hubbard manages to make scientologists buy into a universe view that is completely encompassed within Fowler’s adolescent development perspective.

That scientologists receive what they consider adequate solutions to their immediate needs from those constructs and related practices reinforces the indoctrinated universe view. The closed culture of scientology makes stage growth stunting inevitable. That culture convinces the individual to assign any and every personal development along the Fowler schema — or by any other standard — to the brilliance of Hubbard and scientology. Likewise, it includes sophisticated and complex analyses for blaming any regression or depression on perceived enemies of scientology, directly or indirectly. All of these dichotomy creating mis-assignment of causation devices serve to reinforce the adolescent, denialist universe view taught in scientology.

The adolescent stage of faith universe view is so thoroughly ingrained in the sub conscious of the scientologist that even when an individual manages to disconnect from the scientology organization he or she often continues to act with the adopted us vs. them, misassignment of cause, and blame mentality. The former cult member can gravitate toward groups of independent, former, and even anti-scientologists who act in the same cliquish and cruel manner that they did while actively participating in scientology.

In the scientology milieu – organizational, independent, former, and anti – reason holds little currency. It is replaced by the adolescent, denialist language of absolutism and condemnation. It is a culture of facile appointment of enemies and easy bandwagon riding with those perceived to share trivial commonalities.

Getting out of the scientology sandbox begins with one simple, liberating step. But, for the reasons outlined thus far, it is a step those involved in scientology culture find difficult to navigate.

* * * * * END QUOTATION * * * * *
 

Veda

Sponsor
Mark 'Marty' Rathbun:

-snip-

It seems that in the scientology world L. Ron Hubbard is either God or Satan.

-snip-

the truth lies somewhere between the polar extremes.

-snip-

* * * * * END QUOTATION * * * * *

This looks like a recycling of something from Marty from about two years ago.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Rathbun's theory of why Scientologists are wrong is detailed. His theory of why the anti-Scientologists are wrong seems to be, that Hubbard could not possibly have been smart enough to fool so many smart people on purpose. I'm afraid I think this is one of those last stages of denial, where Rathbun just can't bring himself to admit that he fell for a few simple tricks. No, it must have been either a vast constellation of terribly tricky tricks, or a bizarre kind of accident.

It may be harder for Rathbun to get past this stage than it would be for most people, because his main post-cult career option is to set up for a guru. Gurus are allowed to have learned from hard experience, but they're not supposed to be duped by simple tricks.
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
This looks like a recycling of something from Marty from about two years ago.

Yes it is, also last year he used the same quote form Fowler, I have a feeling that Marty thinks he has the answers and we should all be listening. It is my personal belief that Marty doesn't have the answers and his view on hubbard is that of a believer still, not the churches hubbard but his bubbard.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Marty:
<snip>
There are those who dismiss L. Ron Hubbard as the consummate con man. They insist that with conscious aforethought he created and operated dianetics and scientology as a fraudulent bait and switch operation fooling and fleecing tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of relatively intelligent adults. So cunning was Hubbard according to some anti-scientologists that if you were to take their words for granted you would have to rank Hubbard as one of the more able and intelligent minds of the twentieth century. The complexity, the breadth, and the duration of Hubbard’s alleged fraudulent scheme would be a virtual impossibility for any mere mortal to accomplish.
<snip>

The evidence that scientology and dianetics has always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation is overwhelmingly strong. :yes:

Co$ has since the beginning been selling the states of Clear and OT which they cannot deliver, certainly not in the way these states have been defined by Hubbard himself.

Marty's assertion "They insist that with conscious aforethought he created and operated dianetics and scientology as a fraudulent bait and switch operation..." simply is not true. :no:

Who is "they"? :unsure:

Anyone reading ESMB over a period of time would see that some do believe this and others do not.

In my case - yes, I say that scientology and dianetics HAVE always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation, but with conscious aforethought? While it surely looks like this at times one cannot always know the intention of another, and I don't claim to know Hubbard's intent throughout all the decades he operated this whole thing.

There have been some pretty incredible con men throughout history who successfully defrauded some very intelligent victims. Bernie Madoff being just one of many examples.
 
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In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
There is really nothing that lofty or extreme about simply sticking you hands in your (empty) pockets and walking away, realizing a liar is just a liar.
I guess that doesn't make for good blog content;)
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
After trying to read the content quoted above from Marty, all I can think of is: who is its intended audience?

Whole thing makes no sense.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
After trying to read the content quoted above from Marty, all I can think of is: who is its intended audience?

Whole thing makes no sense.

Seems to be directed at Scientologists and Ex-Scientologists, who are all pathetic while, he, Marty, has risen above it all.

If we're nice to him, maybe he'll deign to share with us his insights so that we, too, can someday rise above it.

"We will not here speculate how it was that Marty came to rise above the Sandbox...."

:biggrin:
 

Veda

Sponsor
The evidence that scientology and dianetics has always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation is overwhelmingly strong. :yes:

Co$ has since the beginning been selling the states of Clear and OT which they cannot deliver, certainly not in the way these states have been defined by Hubbard himself.

Marty's assertion "They insist that with conscious aforethought he created and operated dianetics and scientology as a fraudulent bait and switch operation..." simply is not true. :no:

Who is "they"? :unsure:

Anyone reading ESMB over a period of time would see that some do believe this and others do not.

In my case - yes, I say that scientology and dianetics HAVE always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation, but with conscious aforethought? While it surely looks like this at times one cannot always know the intention of another, and I don't claim to know Hubbard's intent throughout all the decades he operated this whole thing.

There have been some pretty incredible con men throughout history who successfully defrauded some very intelligent victims. Bernie Madoff being just one of many examples.

Of course Hubbard was a con man and a show man, but he also saw himself as a brilliant psychologist.

His ulterior motive can be traced back to 1938, and some years later, in correspondence.

The 1946 'Affirmations' are an additional source of information

And then just look what he did with Scientology.

Motives can be ascertained. The courts and jails are filled with people who have had their intentions or motives determined.

IMO, Hubbard's self-serving motive trumped all else.

However his talents as a natural psychologist were also part of the mix. And I believe that he enjoyed being a natural psychologist.

Hubbard was a complex character, and an unusual man.

An he's been de-coded and understood for many years.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Seems to be directed at Scientologists and Ex-Scientologists, who are all pathetic while, he, Marty, has risen above it all.

If we're nice to him, maybe he'll deign to share with us his insights so that we, too, can someday rise above it.

"We will not here speculate how it was that Marty came to rise above the Sandbox...."

:biggrin:

Just seems like he is talking down, which is hard for someone to want to listen/read it...

Just sayin'
 

Gib

Crusader
The evidence that scientology and dianetics has always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation is overwhelmingly strong. :yes:

Co$ has since the beginning been selling the states of Clear and OT which they cannot deliver, certainly not in the way these states have been defined by Hubbard himself.

Marty's assertion "They insist that with conscious aforethought he created and operated dianetics and scientology as a fraudulent bait and switch operation..." simply is not true. :no:

Who is "they"? :unsure:

Anyone reading ESMB over a period of time would see that some do believe this and others do not.

In my case - yes, I say that scientology and dianetics HAVE always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation, but with conscious aforethought? While it surely looks like this at times one cannot always know the intention of another, and I don't claim to know Hubbard's intent throughout all the decades he operated this whole thing.

There have been some pretty incredible con men throughout history who successfully defrauded some very intelligent victims. Bernie Madoff being just one of many examples.

well, I guess like you, I always default to:

where are the fuk'in Clears & OT's?

I'm sorry to say these folks still are disillusioned.

Middle path, my ass, scientology has no middle path, scientology is either you are in, or you are much off better dead.

I wish Marty would re-read KSW, issued by Hubbard in 19 fucking 65. In the glorious St Hill days of expansion & standard tech, the birthday game to follow. :duh:


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

What a con. :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

BTW: I thought a St. Hill Class 8 C/S would boom any org?

How's that going for the Freezone?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Rathbun's theory of why Scientologists are wrong is detailed. His theory of why the anti-Scientologists are wrong seems to be, that Hubbard could not possibly have been smart enough to fool so many smart people on purpose. I'm afraid I think this is one of those last stages of denial, where Rathbun just can't bring himself to admit that he fell for a few simple tricks. No, it must have been either a vast constellation of terribly tricky tricks, or a bizarre kind of accident.

It may be harder for Rathbun to get past this stage than it would be for most people, because his main post-cult career option is to set up for a guru. Gurus are allowed to have learned from hard experience, but they're not supposed to be duped by simple tricks.


Great post.

What follows are are my own gratuitous observations from the sideline....

Marty is a marathon runner who pauses at each mile of the race to make bold new illuminating pronouncements about the nature of the course. Each "R-Factor" is different than the preceding.

Thus Marty pauses often--yet never pauses to consider that there are runners well ahead of him. Curiously, he always believes himself to be crossing each mile marker first.

HELPFUL TIP: Marty, congratulations on completing the 26 mile marathon! You made it! Yayyy! Unfortunately, it is a 52 mile course and you're roughly at the 1/2 way marker. Keep on Joggin' and, hey, if you don't give so many mid-race "briefings" to others, you will have a lot more wind with which to finish the entire marathon.
 
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Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Great post.

What follows is are my own gratuitous observations from the sideline....

Marty is a marathon runner who pauses at each mile of the race to make bold new illuminating pronouncements about the nature of the course. Each "R-Factor" is different than the preceding.

Thus Marty pauses often--yet never pauses to consider that there are runners well ahead of him. Curiously, he always believes himself to be crossing each mile marker first.

HELPFUL TIP: Marty, congratulations on completing the 26 mile marathon! You made it! Yayyy! Unfortunately, it is a 52 mile course and you're roughly at the 1/2 way marker. Keep on Joggin' and if you don't give so many mid-race "briefings" to others, you will have a lot more wind with which to finish the entire marathon.


Corollary view: It is a 26 mile marathon, but with all of his backward running, Marty is turning it into a 52 mile event. (Sigh)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
The evidence that scientology and dianetics has always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation is overwhelmingly strong. :yes:

Co$ has since the beginning been selling the states of Clear and OT which they cannot deliver, certainly not in the way these states have been defined by Hubbard himself.

Marty's assertion "They insist that with conscious aforethought he created and operated dianetics and scientology as a fraudulent bait and switch operation..." simply is not true. :no:

Who is "they"? :unsure:

Anyone reading ESMB over a period of time would see that some do believe this and others do not.

In my case - yes, I say that scientology and dianetics HAVE always been a fraudulent bait and switch operation, but with conscious aforethought? While it surely looks like this at times one cannot always know the intention of another, and I don't claim to know Hubbard's intent throughout all the decades he operated this whole thing.

There have been some pretty incredible con men throughout history who successfully defrauded some very intelligent victims. Bernie Madoff being just one of many examples.


Cool post! Marty is very confused, still. Fog of war, and so on and so forth...

As far as your question
Who is "they"?

BEST GUESS: The dictator.

-------------------------------------------------

AN ODE TO L. RON HUBBARD
by Mark "Marty" Rathbun​

You said your legacy would be the tech
but the dictator said otherwise
and the church began its demise
and hurt came to those who would object


You said there was no hidden data line
but the dictator said he knew better
and burned all of your policy letters
and the church went into long term decline


You said the tech was timeless and free
but the dictator wanted power and cash
and made your truth a confusing hash
and status and greed replaced the state of OT


You acknowledged the loyalty of your gracious wife
but the dictator used her as a stepping stone
and she died forgotten, friendless and alone
and thus he erased your dear Manuela from your life


You raised three fine children and one who died too soon
but the dictator wanted them forgotten too
and your progeny turned from sunshine to blue
and the many who loved you wept under a sorrowful moon


You had faith that your friends would make it come out right
but the dictator mis-used your treasure to enervate them
and black dianetics, reverse scientology internecine mayhem
and with violence did he destroy their willingness to fight


You said only truth could penetrate thick armor plate
and though
the dictator protested this fact
it was your ace in the hole that has our back
and everyday now more are working to reverse your fate


And alas, it may take time and a perilous struggle
but we assure you it is too late to reverse our tide
you’ve got friends to the end of time on your side
and come hell or high water we’ll emerge from this jungle


Because we know you were right that the truth shall set us free
and that is one thing no dictator will ever take away
it will be your real friends standing at the end of day
humanity freed, the only proper acknowledgment of thee.


-------------------------------------------------



postscript: Ironically, 5 out of 7 of the LRH photos were of him in an editing room, "dictating". LOL
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Rathbun's theory of why Scientologists are wrong is detailed. His theory of why the anti-Scientologists are wrong seems to be, that Hubbard could not possibly have been smart enough to fool so many smart people on purpose. I'm afraid I think this is one of those last stages of denial, where Rathbun just can't bring himself to admit that he fell for a few simple tricks. No, it must have been either a vast constellation of terribly tricky tricks, or a bizarre kind of accident.

It may be harder for Rathbun to get past this stage than it would be for most people, because his main post-cult career option is to set up for a guru. Gurus are allowed to have learned from hard experience, but they're not supposed to be duped by simple tricks.

My perhaps overly generous view is that Marty wants to validate the still-in because he feels he is more likely to help them that way. If that is his thought process, he may have a point there.

Rinder allows a fair amount of anti-LRH sentiment over at his blog, but at the same time he tends to be fairly strict about not letting people invalidate each other and only have respectful well-reasoned disagreement rather than "LRH is a fraud and you're a sucker" type of responses. I don't read Marty's comments section as much as Rinder's, mostly because I'm more interested in day-to-day cult gossip and Rinder's blog has it in spades.
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
"...if you were to take their words for granted you would have to rank Hubbard as one of the more able and intelligent minds of the twentieth century. The complexity, the breadth, and the duration of Hubbard’s alleged fraudulent scheme would be a virtual impossibility for any mere mortal to accomplish..."

Cunning, deviousness and a huge ego have nothing to do with intelligence. As for Hubbard's fraudulent scheme, after the machine is built the hard work is done, it just needs new fuel to keep running.




Love the LRH "artiste" pic's and the beret. He sure loved to play dress-up.
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
Marty has a monster ego but he isn't stupid, and he certainly can play with words... I think he already has figured out that all of it is scam, what a conman and crook Hubbard was and what his motives were. This final affirmation to himself might have been shaped (admitted) little less than a year ago - while constantly and ever more rapidly losing "faith in source" over the last few years. Yet he cannot say this because when he chooses this approach, many of his we-trust-in-tech fans will bail. Also, he indeed wants people getting out of "Scientology Inc.", for rather humanitarian motives many of us share. He knows they who are heeding doubts may dare read his stuff but unlikely if he goes "it's a hoax, FIN".

On his ego... His self-esteem is overly distinctive. Also, he has a need to prove himself, to get admiration, and wants to be a leader, a guru... a "humanitarian" and "therapist", too, out of his bad conscience... He certainly wants to keep his followers, or some of them. Part of this is, he thinks they are (still) confused and need him to lead them into non-Scieno land, and only he can do that... D'Oh... He has that distinct authoritarian thinking on him which he got from Scientology, and which also fits his mindset.

He tries to get close to stating this assumption, "Scientology = Scam", and does that by ridiculing and condemning Hubbard so sharply. Yet I think he's even more critical of "tech" than he actually admits. The reason for him currently appearing so very undecided and on a "confused" zigzag course could be that he is now trying hard to find an angle that allows him to stay in touch with his followers. But that could get interesting at some point, since I think the conflict is inevitable... :biggrin: I don't think he can do this. Well, or anybody.

Actually, he might decide to retreat from the field of critisizing/evaluating/improving Scientology altogether, and to declare whatever he is making up, as "non Scientology" or really just very losely "inspirated" by Hubbard, and indeed do the step of stating: "I've decided, Hubbard was on to something when he made Dianetics, but, ya know, he drifted off course pretty soon because of his cranky needs etc ...". That might be his official explanation then. It is insofar plausible as the "regression therapy" part is the very last thing of Scientology "tech" a Freezoner might want to discard. However, developing his own work, also must be a difficult task, to say the least. He ought to have overreached himself massively with intending to re-invent psychotherapy; not unlike Hubbard did, and a hundred other gurus/crackpots. He might be on the way of recognizing this, now that he has constructed his own ultimatum... :p

He might, however, want to delay doing this for some time, because the more his followers are trusting him when he does "the" step, the more of them will hold on to him at this point. But that is also illusional, since he would have to work for this trust, it doesn't just pop into existence or culminate without reason. :melodramatic: However, his ego will drive him to welcome this excuse and make it a rationalization for not really moving on - rather than acknowledging the task as impossible.

Essentially, he's running in circles...

I tried to depict from a psychological angle why that might be.

Well, I'm reading this between the lines of several of his recent posts and this must not be accurate. :confused2: Sorry when it sounds trivial... And I could not nail it down either. Just sharing the opinion. Also, much of it has already been told. And I might not know of some of this, since I am not that long onto it, plus, I was and am no dedicated Freezone watcher, and analyzing Marty only in retroperspective by reading some of his older posts, versus the new ones.

I don't hate or despise Marty (if somebody happens to think that now)... Except for his stance in the Armstrong conflict... But ofcourse, for him this is complicated and dangerous too.

What has been stated about his dim job/fame perspectives, also is very true. I consider it unlucky that Marty doesn't get, or trust in this thought if he happened to have it (as I assume), that his very chance of becoming a hero with lots of dedicated followers and FANS allover the Ex-Scn scene, is to team up with Armstrong - and others. :yes:

The way out of the trap is to be found in Armstrong's direction, Marty...

:drama:
 

Francois Tremblay

Patron with Honors
The second I started reading this, I thought... he's using the "middle ground is most reasonable" tactic. This is juvenile. I expected more from Rathbun.
 
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