Mark 'Marty' Rathbun's NEW book: Clear and Beyond. Excerpt: Congruence

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
[NOTE: Posted in "General Discussion" because "Marty World" is a sub-forum and subset of "Freezone, Independents, and other flavors of scientology," and Marty has now made it abundantly clear (no pun intended) that he is not a member of the Freezone, an Independent Scientologist, nor practicing another flavor of Scientology.

Actually, I heard it is an upcoming Lifetime movie: Escape from Independent Scientology, the Marty Rathbun Story.]

Mark 'Marty' Rathbun's NEW book: Clear and Beyond. Excerpt: Congruence

Congruence
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/09/06/congruence/
Excerpt from upcoming book Clear and Beyond:

The fundamental two-way communication process that all scientology methodology derives its workability from existed before L. Ron Hubbard ever wrote a word on the subject of the mind. All of its components were developed, far beyond the degree of sophistication that scientology ever treated them, while Hubbard was still engaged in black magik rituals in Pasadena. They were perhaps best explained and demonstrated in Rogerian client-centered therapy. It would behoove scientologists to study of it. The best place to start would be On Becoming a Person by Carl R. Rogers (Houghton Mifflin, 1961).

What made Hubbard popular initially with publication of Dianetics was his simplifying and codifying critical principles of client-centered therapy thus potentially opening the process of self-actualization to far more people. Hubbard himself has acknowledged that Dianetics’ fad-like initial appeal rested largely on the promise of taking therapy out of the hands of professionals and putting it into the living rooms of lay people. Much of that particular appeal was lost as dianetics and its progeny scientology became more mass-production oriented, expensive, exclusive, and cult-like. Not surprisingly, those negative developments can be traced to dianetics’ and scientology’s attempts to short-cut vital client-centered therapy principles in the first place.

The more failure in producing a confident, independent-minded, self-determined client, the more Hubbard introduced personality control mechanisms. That is probably the most cardinal of sins imaginable in actual client-centered philosophy. With pressure to deliver on dianetics’ original promises of immediate and permanent results, the training of practitioners became an assembly-line like activity. On the one hand that helped to thoroughly crash train some workable skills, while on the other hand it omitted a more contemplative, intellectual appreciation for the agencies at work that actually create a desired effect and the responsibilities that go with such practice.

For example, for all the effectiveness of the training regimens instituted to teach the skills of counselor communication in scientology, perhaps the most important client-centered counseling ability was not only omitted but the opposite was trained in. That is congruence. Congruence is the term Rogers uses to describe the counselor’s natural ability to fully and comfortably be himself without imposing himself upon the client. Congruence is being oneself as a person and not attempting to conceal it by creation of a façade, even a null one as trained in by scientology. By establishing congruence the client has the security of the sense of knowing exactly where the counselor stands at any given moment. Without congruence he does not. That is critical in establishing the conditions necessary for self-actualization.

In contrast, scientology drills congruence out of a counselor to the point he can become a blank personality or a synthetic one. Scientologists are even shown films depicting how they should ‘act’ (the ‘beingness’ they are expected to assume) as an auditor. That is in keeping with its teaching that the way to achieve something is as simple as be, do, have. That is, figure out the personality traits of someone who has what you want, then act them out as you do as he or she does, and before you know it you will have the fruits you sought. Sincerity and genuineness (read congruence) are not included in the equation. Certainly there have been mavericks within scientology who have had the courage or sense to be themselves as counselors. And their results reflected that. But, every single one of them was eventually caught up with and either expelled from the ranks or converted into a play-acting automaton by scientology’s policing arms. This presages later chapters where we analyze in more depth the manifold ways in which scientology creates conforming, compliant minds.
 
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Leland

Crusader
And into which category does Marty place himself....?

I guess the answer is in the results he got with Tom Cruize?
 

Cat Daddy

Silver Meritorious Patron
Marty Rathbun is my Bro


Here is a loon:

[video=youtube;PKPZurJ4U_U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKPZurJ4U_U[/video]
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I find Marty had improve his writing skills!

Less esotheric, and more interesting at a dissection exercice of $cientology (dianetics) doctrine and practices. His thoughts are more logically and simply wrapped - more concise!

This excerpt is pretty much good!

Again, as I mentionned in a previous thread, It may help many independant who are Marty's followers to grasp what cult mindset they adopted.

To Marty: Just a constructive comment:

Please have someone skill in graphic design to create a nice attractive cover . That will make huge difference if your readers will have a good first impression and find it attractive - wich may result in more sales for you, and more educated people! Many guys you know can do a nice job to that - but definetely you shall ask help for that part!
 
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Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
I find Marty had improve his writing skills!

Less mystic, and more interesting at a dissection exercice of $cientology (dianetics) doctrine and practices. His thoughts are more logically and simply wrapped!

This excerpt is pretty much good!

Again, as I mentionned in a previous thread, It may help many independant who are Marty's followers to grasp what cult mindset they adopted.

To Marty: Just a constructive comment:

Please have someone skill in graphic design to create a nice attractive cover . That will make huge difference if your readers will have a good first impression and find it attractive - wich may result in more sales for you, and more educated people! Many guys you know can do a nice job to that - but definetely you shall ask help for that part!
Still reads like phony circle talk to me.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
I find Marty had improve his writing skills!

Less mystic, and more interesting at a dissection exercice of $cientology (dianetics) doctrine and practices. His thoughts are more logically and simply wrapped!

This excerpt is pretty much good!

Again, as I mentionned in a previous thread, It may help many independant who are Marty's followers to grasp what cult mindset they adopted.

To Marty: Just a constructive comment:

Please have someone skill in graphic design to create a nice attractive cover . That will make huge difference if your readers will have a good first impression and find it attractive - wich may result in more sales for you, and more educated people! Many guys you know can do a nice job to that - but definetely you shall ask help for that part!

I agree this post is readable a BIG improvement over his last post and a few of the other recent ones. This post is spot on about Hubbard's stealing of the work of others and then corrupting it to use is as a control mechanism on his followers. It's a good, coherent, insightful post.

IMHO I think the subject matter has a lot to do with the literacy of Marty's writing. He may (idk) have a good internal grasp of esoteric and philosophical ideas that he reads about, but he does not yet demonstrate the ability to write clearly and concisely about those ideas, in fact his posts come off as quite muddled and nonsensical when he attempts it. To be honest, it's a very difficult subject matter to write about. Abstract theories and difficult to put in concrete language, and that's why one of the most basic things you must first learn to avidly study philosophy is the agreed upon language and definitions.

However, usually when he writing about something more concrete - like Hubbard's ideas and where he poached them from and his own experiences within Scientology - his style and readability are much improved.

It would actually appear, maybe because this is a chapter from another upcoming book, that Marty is actually rereading and editing his writing. The lack of editing and revising seemed to be one of the major culprits responsible for the really undecipherable posts he wrote. A good editor, one besides Marty himself or his buddies, would do Marty a world of good.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, a good editor could serve him well. Preferably one who has no background in scientology; that way, the editor insists that what Marty writes actually makes sense to the "average" lay reader, not just to the "in crowd" who have been through the same journey and are somewhat blindly supportive of his efforts.
 

Gib

Crusader
[NOTE: Posted in "General Discussion" because "Marty World" is a sub-forum and subset of "Freezone, Independents, and other flavors of scientology," and Marty has now made it abundantly clear (no pun intended) that he is not a member of the Freezone, an Independent Scientologist, nor practicing another flavor of Scientology.

Actually, I heard it is an upcoming Lifetime movie: Escape from Independent Scientology, the Marty Rathbun Story.]

Mark 'Marty' Rathbun's NEW book: Clear and Beyond. Excerpt: Congruence

Congruence
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/09/06/congruence/

"In contrast, scientology drills congruence out of a counselor to the point he can become a blank personality or a synthetic one. Scientologists are even shown films depicting how they should ‘act’ (the ‘beingness’ they are expected to assume) as an auditor. That is in keeping with its teaching that the way to achieve something is as simple as be, do, have. That is, figure out the personality traits of someone who has what you want, then act them out as you do as he or she does, and before you know it you will have the fruits you sought. Sincerity and genuineness (read congruence) are not included in the equation. Certainly there have been mavericks within scientology who have had the courage or sense to be themselves as counselors. And their results reflected that. But, every single one of them was eventually caught up with and either expelled from the ranks or converted into a play-acting automaton by scientology’s policing arms. This presages later chapters where we analyze in more depth the manifold ways in which scientology creates conforming, compliant minds."

What I highlight in red even extends to staff members.

Every post in a scientology organizations is an extension of what LRH wanted the person to be, do & have.

And even public scientologists, even FSM's.

It's all written in the HCOB's & HCO PL's,

for all those bulletins & policy letters begin with "Hubbard" policy letter, "Hubbard" bulletin.

I am laughing my ass off,

Hubbard wanted everybody to be Hubbard, so much for self determinism. :laugh:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Ummm...that thing's got, like, lots of words and stuff. I don't think I can hack it.

Excuse me, I have to find a 2010 post that hasn't magically expired on which to like reply to or sumpin'...
 

Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
What I highlight in red even extends to staff members.

Every post in a scientology organizations is an extension of what LRH wanted the person to be, do & have.

And even public scientologists, even FSM's.

It's all written in the HCOB's & HCO PL's,

for all those bulletins & policy letters begin with "Hubbard" policy letter, "Hubbard" bulletin.

I am laughing my ass off,

Hubbard wanted everybody to be Hubbard, so much for self determinism. :laugh:
Is that why Marty's writing reminds me so much of Hubbard's?
 

Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
Is that why Marty's writing reminds me so much of Hubbard's?
My friend explains it better than I can. She wrote this after reading the excerpt:

"Gak. He never could write. But that sounds at least slightly more in-the-world than he used to sound. At least he's referring to people outside Scientology? But wow, his writing (and his thinking, I'd guess) is really convoluted and gunked up."

 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Rathbun seems to be making a significant point here. Dianetics was essentially client-centered therapy For Dummies, a Lite version that could be done at home with little training. In fact that Lite approach could only get so far. Counseling is a serious profession. Rather than accept this, Hubbard just doubled down on the 'For Dummies' approach. He piled on rote drills.

Rathbun's specific example is a good one. Real client-centered therapists are apparently supposed to have their own mature perspective on things and let the client know this — presumably not imposing it on the client, but not pretending it's not there. I didn't know about this principle but I think I may have seen it in action in one of my own counselors. It gave me confidence to think that I was being listened to by a strong and confident person who was taking me seriously. Nobody can pick up maturity from a book chapter, so this element of client-centered therapy is one of those that can't be copied in the knock-off Lite version. Rathbun explains that Hubbard dealt with this by going full throttle in the opposite direction, and telling auditors to be perfect blanks — because blankness, unlike maturity, can be drilled. The client's respect for the counselor, as a peer who did not, however, need to be copied, was replaced by a respect for the auditing process as a formulaic technology. Raising this respect for 'the tech' to ever loftier levels, Dianetics had a straight path to becoming the cult we know it became.

That's what I get out of Rathbun's excerpt. It strikes me as a very solid point.

So Rathbun seems to be really contributing some substantial insights here. His prose style is still a weakness, however. It's not as easy as it should be to distill his useful contribution out of his text. As a snap diagnosis, I'd guess that Rathbun is trying to compensate for a felt lack of education by writing in an elevated register. He manages pretty well at doing that correctly, though he doesn't quite pull it off perfectly ("far beyond the degree of sophistication that scientology ever treated them" -> "far beyond the degree of sophistication with which scientology ever treated them"). In fact I think that Rathbun would write much better if he just kept it a bit more down-to-earth — and that would still be true even if he wrote the fancy style perfectly. That fancy style of writing isn't actually much use to anybody.

He's got real things to say. They don't need to be dressed up. He should just say them.
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
[snip]
So Rathbun seems to be really contributing some substantial insights here. His prose style is still a weakness, however. It's not as easy as it should be to distill his useful contribution out of his text. As a snap diagnosis, I'd guess that Rathbun is trying to compensate for a felt lack of education by writing in an elevated register. He manages pretty well at doing that correctly, though he doesn't quite pull it off perfectly ("far beyond the degree of sophistication that scientology ever treated them" -> "far beyond the degree of sophistication with which scientology ever treated them"). In fact I think that Rathbun would write much better if he just kept it a bit more down-to-earth — and that would still be true even if he wrote the fancy style perfectly. That fancy style of writing isn't actually much use to anybody.

He's got real things to say. They don't need to be dressed up. He should just say them.

The snippet of text in the OP is just really poor writing. It contains numerous errors in grammar which make it difficult to read and understand. The idea he is trying to communicate is fairly simple but his writing style is obfuscating. I took a stab at re-writing just the first paragraph:

Orginal
The fundamental two-way communication process that all scientology methodology derives its workability from existed before L. Ron Hubbard ever wrote a word on the subject of the mind. All of its components were developed, far beyond the degree of sophistication that scientology ever treated them, while Hubbard was still engaged in black magik rituals in Pasadena. They were perhaps best explained and demonstrated in Rogerian client-centered therapy. It would behoove scientologists to study of it. The best place to start would be On Becoming a Person by Carl R. Rogers (Houghton Mifflin, 1961).

Re-written
The fundamental two-way communication process, from which all scientology methodologies derive their workability, existed before L. Ron Hubbard ever wrote a word on the subject of the mind. All process components were developed while Hubbard was still engaged in black magik rituals in Pasadena. And they were first developed with a greater degree of sophistication than how they were later treated in scientology. They are perhaps best explained and demonstrated in Rogerian client-centered therapy. It would behoove scientologists to study of it. The best place to start would be On Becoming a Person by Carl R. Rogers (Houghton Mifflin, 1961).
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
Is it me, or is the latest post so impenetrable?

I like Marty, I really do, and a few years ago, would really look forward to his blog, but it's gotten to the stage where I just don't understand what on earth he is trying to say. Have a university degree, heck, I even have a few post graduate degrees knocking around, so am fairly au fait with rather dense writing, but just didn't get it. <<shrugs>>
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Is it me, or is the latest post so impenetrable?

I like Marty, I really do, and a few years ago, would really look forward to his blog, but it's gotten to the stage where I just don't understand what on earth he is trying to say. Have a university degree, heck, I even have a few post graduate degrees knocking around, so am fairly au fait with rather dense writing, but just didn't get it. <<shrugs>>

I was a Linguistics / Literature major (I got better...) back at the height of the Science Wars in the 1990s. I absolutely loathe the mishmash of academic horse shit that went under the banner of mainstream post-modernism and post-structuralism.

Marty at his worst reminds me of reading Derrida and Foucault. God, it gives me flashbacks.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Is it me, or is the latest post so impenetrable?

I like Marty, I really do, and a few years ago, would really look forward to his blog, but it's gotten to the stage where I just don't understand what on earth he is trying to say. Have a university degree, heck, I even have a few post graduate degrees knocking around, so am fairly au fait with rather dense writing, but just didn't get it. <<shrugs>>

I agree. Some here apparently disagree, but I think his writing is getting worse. His views are improving, but not the writing.
 
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