Mark "Marty" Rathbun's Thirty-One Theses

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Marty has been aware of DM's madness from the get-go, or shortly thereafter.
Why didn't he leave earlier?
Complex Question Fallacy. Presumes a fact not in evidence.

Unless you possess great psychic powers or are God, you have no knowledge of when Marty Rathbun first became "aware of DM's madness" beyond what he may choose to say about that in public statements.
Challenge's observation is not a fallacy at all. Marty has provided the evidence as to what he knew, and when he knew it.

What Marty's says in public statements are admissions of what he knew, and when he knew it. How else are we supposed to know "when Marty Rathbun first became 'aware of DM's madness?'"

For example, in Factor 18, Marty writes that, "Miscavige has kept the international managers of Scientology in the lowest ethics conditions continuously for nearly two decades by imposing arbitrary requirements for upgrade nowhere covered in policy." That is clearly evidence that Marty has been aware of DM's "madness" for at least that period of time.

Even before that, in Factor 5, Marty writes that, "accomplished his coup by commandeering the only line of communication to Hubbard during the last five years of his life, plying Hubbard with embellished and false reports of a dangerous environment to keep him out of communication with Sea Org members and his family." Given that Hubbard died on January 24, 1986, this occurred from from approximately 1980 through 1985, almost 25 to 30 years ago.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
If I use Safari on Windows then it gets to 29 with the pictures taking an age to load.

This, to me, proves Rathbun is a criminal as he is holding back in the crime he is commiting on Scientology by messing up his main attack on Scientology in that his display is messed up and he deliberately makes it difficult for people to view his pages by having his images small but huge and therefore slow to download. LRH said that criminals are basically good and therefore leave clues at the scene of the crime so that they can be caught and stopped and what I am seeing on Rathbun's web page confirms this.

I mostly use Opera on Windows XP and for me it takes about ten minutes for that online page to load. If I turn off the images in Preferences, it apparently loads instantly of course. I say "apparently" because it still looks like something is loading, but all the text is there.

I'll take your rant at face value. I think he is just ignorant of how to best put up a web page. I can't believe anyone not functionally insane would knowingly and deliberately put online a 12 MB home page that they want people to read.

Paul
 

Veda

Sponsor
[From Rathbun's 'Factor #5']

"accomplished his coup by commandeering the only line of communication to Hubbard during the last five years of his life, plying Hubbard with embellished and false reports of a dangerous environment to keep him out of communication with Sea Org members and his family."

So L. Ron Hubbard has his "only line of communication commandeered" by the 20 year old Sea Org kid Miscavige. Poor Ron. He was too afraid to contact his wife or kids. And, oh, how badly Ron wanted to contact Mary Sue, and Diana, and the others, but he couldn't because of Miscavige. (Please!)

I know Hubbard corresponded, through the USA mail, with Ray Faraday Nelson, a non-Scientologist science fiction author during the time that he was (according to Rathbun), apparently, shivering in fear due to the devilish Miscavige, who took advantage of poor Ron. Nelson knew Hubbard's San Luis Obispo address. And I doubt if he was the only one with whom Hubbard corresponded.

Seriously folks, let's get real. Read Larry Brennan's, and others, accounts. Hubbard, in the early 1980s, wanted THE MONEY taken from Mission Holders (whom he didn't trust, particularly after the - revealing - court-ordered release of many of his own vile secret "Fair Game"-related writings) and Scientologists over-all, and that money placed under his own control for his monument-building&fan club-establishing projects. Miscavige was his #1 henchman in this regard. He pleased his boss by keeping the subpoenas away and by getting him the money.

There's way too much mis-information in this stuff from Rathbun. One has to wonder just what Rathbun's real objective is.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
There's way too much mis-information in this stuff from Rathbun. One has to wonder just what Rathbun's real objective is.

I'd say he's fairly transparent, with the only question being how much of the calculus is based on conscious manipulation and how much on fondly held delusion.

What he *hasn't* told is what he knew and when he knew it. Or when he 'did' it.

Zinj
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
What do you think his objective is?

I think his objective is:

to oust Miscavige, and then

take over the "church" of scientology (possibly by dismantling it and starting up a "reformed" version) and as many of its assets as can be salvaged -- especially the copyrights and trademarks, and then

offer an "amnesty" to all those out in the "independent field" and the "freezone" who want to come back to the fold of the "official" church, which would include cancelling most SP declares and disconnections (with the condition that those who are disaffected/declared come in and do the steps required by the "amnesty"), and then

do some sort of "group engram" handling on the top execs and get them back on post and functioning, and then

reorganize the church to eliminate some of the excess administrative bureaucracy and get it more oriented toward tech delivery, and then

get a campaign going to recover and "handle" any disaffected public who've been blown off by the "out tech" that's been going on, and then

business-as-usual for scientology/CoS except that it will be a "kinder, gentler" version under the leadership of the tough-as-nails-but-oh-so-loving-and-benevolent dictator, Marty Rathbun.


Of course, as I don't know the man and have no real inside information, this is just speculation.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Factor #11:

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has consistently given little interest and funds for defending public relations attacks on Hubbard..."

Don't forget getting back "in" all that "out 'LRH image' PR."

I can imagine that not preventing the publication of the three notable critical books about Hubbard/Scientology from the mid/late 1980s - in sequence, by Corydon, Miller, and Atack - is viewed by Rathbun as an early Miscavige screw up.

In the meantime, the Freezoners are happily bumping onto walls telling themselves that "first LRH policy" is "maintain friendly relations with the environment," and Rathbun is encouraging this state of unreality and disassociation.

G:duh:
 
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JustanotherEX

Patron with Honors
What do you think his objective is?

To dramatise "The One"?

That's discourteous to the man, as I don't know him, but what sorts of people are drawn to the top of the organization and what sorts discarded, defeated, destroyed?

I hope he works for justice.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
The downside is that it's making some already goofy Freezoners a little bit goofier; the plus side is that it may have motivated some "Church" members to defect.

Got any proof of that? Do you know the people of whom you speak? Their every waking thought? Have you put them on an emeter to determine this? :p
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
I mostly use Opera on Windows XP and for me it takes about ten minutes for that online page to load. If I turn off the images in Preferences, it apparently loads instantly of course. I say "apparently" because it still looks like something is loading, but all the text is there.

I'll take your rant at face value. I think he is just ignorant of how to best put up a web page. I can't believe anyone not functionally insane would knowingly and deliberately put online a 12 MB home page that they want people to read.

Paul

Loads in about 20 seconds for me, pics and all.....but I have real internet, not the old slow kind....:whistling:

Yes 12.5 mb is a bit much for one page!

I have whole sites that are less than that by far with plenty of photos and even video!

MARTY! FIX IT! (email me the photos and I will optimize them for web)
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Marty has been aware of DM's madness from the get-go, or shortly thereafter.
Why didn't he leave earlier?

Chlng


Why didn't he leave later, or why didn't he stay or why didn't he leave kind of earlier but not really very early or why didn't he leave right away or why didn't he not get into it in the first place..etc....etc.

It's different for everybody. You were in the church a long time yourself and noticed a number of things when you were still involved, right?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
What do you think his objective is?

I think his primary objective is to avoid being held responsible for his own actions within the 'Church'. Secondarily, he wants to strengthen his position vis 'a vis the 'Church' in protecting himself from *their* activities against him. While it would seem obvious that both Rathbun and the 'Church' are inextricably bound to Mutually Assured Destruction as a deterrence strategy, the 'Church' and Miscavige are also bug-shit crazy, which Rathbun knows, and, they can't be counted on to make *sane* decisions, so, it's in Rathbun's interest to see a 'weaker' Miscavige who's less able to attack him, while at the same time avoiding ratcheting up the 'desperation' factor to the point where they feel they *must* destroy him, regardless of the consequences.

Thirdly, he's attempting to establish himself in a 'smaller scene' doing what he *likes* to do, which is 'apply the Tech' and regain at least some of his lost status and respect, but, if he does so *too* successfully, it may trigger more 'Church' attack, so, he's not going to set up some kind of 'alternative' organization.

Fourth, he's trying to get *distance* between himself and the 'Church' in order to avoid being sucked down with it in case of a precipitous collapse that might reveal too much of the 'Church's' and *his* past crimes. Given a few more years Rathbun may be able to say, 'hey! why blame me? I've been trying to stop these guys for *years*!!'

So, there will be no 'takeover' of Scn. There's no mechanism in Scientology for succession. If Scientology is prosecuted as an organization, the only thing to take over is the position of 'man holding the bag'.

There will be no revelations of the actual activities of the 'Church' which Rathbun is privy to, since it would cut both ways, however, he will further offer 'confirmation' of other information that gets out that diminishes David Miscavige or any other personal Rathbun 'enemies', both out of personal spite and self-preservation, since a 'weak' Miscavige is less likely to get adventurous against Rathbun; but limited by hesitation to say or do anything that might drive Davey over the 'edge' and into a Sampson Smash.

In the meantime he'll continue his historical revisionism and pandering to his new 'fans' to add to his own influence and affluence.

Zinj
 

Div6

Crusader
I think his primary objective is to avoid being held responsible for his own actions within the 'Church'. Secondarily, he wants to strengthen his position vis 'a vis the 'Church' in protecting himself from *their* activities against him. While it would seem obvious that both Rathbun and the 'Church' are inextricably bound to Mutually Assured Destruction as a deterrence strategy, the 'Church' and Miscavige are also bug-shit crazy, which Rathbun knows, and, they can't be counted on to make *sane* decisions, so, it's in Rathbun's interest to see a 'weaker' Miscavige who's less able to attack him, while at the same time avoiding ratcheting up the 'desperation' factor to the point where they feel they *must* destroy him, regardless of the consequences.

Thirdly, he's attempting to establish himself in a 'smaller scene' doing what he *likes* to do, which is 'apply the Tech' and regain at least some of his lost status and respect, but, if he does so *too* successfully, it may trigger more 'Church' attack, so, he's not going to set up some kind of 'alternative' organization.

Fourth, he's trying to get *distance* between himself and the 'Church' in order to avoid being sucked down with it in case of a precipitous collapse that might reveal too much of the 'Church's' and *his* past crimes. Given a few more years Rathbun may be able to say, 'hey! why blame me? I've been trying to stop these guys for *years*!!'

So, there will be no 'takeover' of Scn. There's no mechanism in Scientology for succession. If Scientology is prosecuted as an organization, the only thing to take over is the position of 'man holding the bag'.

There will be no revelations of the actual activities of the 'Church' which Rathbun is privy to, since it would cut both ways, however, he will further offer 'confirmation' of other information that gets out that diminishes David Miscavige or any other personal Rathbun 'enemies', both out of personal spite and self-preservation, since a 'weak' Miscavige is less likely to get adventurous against Rathbun; but limited by hesitation to say or do anything that might drive Davey over the 'edge' and into a Sampson Smash.

In the meantime he'll continue his historical revisionism and pandering to his new 'fans' to add to his own influence and affluence.

Zinj

You write such good fiction.....I think you missed your calling. :clap:


It is all plausible of course. Keep in mind that Scn is ALL Marty knows. Just look at his web page and you will see what a n00b he is at that.

I think he is trying to right some past wrongs. I support him in that. He is "tainted" with the stink of DM, and will remain so until he tells all.

I think he knows this at some level.

But there is danger in that, personal to him as you point out.....it would be better to get it all out in the open now. Deathbed confessions are so.....whatever.

Thats my fiction. :)
 
I think his primary objective is to avoid being held responsible for his own actions within the 'Church'. Secondarily, he wants to strengthen his position vis 'a vis the 'Church' in protecting himself from *their* activities against him. While it would seem obvious that both Rathbun and the 'Church' are inextricably bound to Mutually Assured Destruction as a deterrence strategy, the 'Church' and Miscavige are also bug-shit crazy, which Rathbun knows, and, they can't be counted on to make *sane* decisions, so, it's in Rathbun's interest to see a 'weaker' Miscavige who's less able to attack him, while at the same time avoiding ratcheting up the 'desperation' factor to the point where they feel they *must* destroy him, regardless of the consequences.

Thirdly, he's attempting to establish himself in a 'smaller scene' doing what he *likes* to do, which is 'apply the Tech' and regain at least some of his lost status and respect, but, if he does so *too* successfully, it may trigger more 'Church' attack, so, he's not going to set up some kind of 'alternative' organization.

Fourth, he's trying to get *distance* between himself and the 'Church' in order to avoid being sucked down with it in case of a precipitous collapse that might reveal too much of the 'Church's' and *his* past crimes. Given a few more years Rathbun may be able to say, 'hey! why blame me? I've been trying to stop these guys for *years*!!'

So, there will be no 'takeover' of Scn. There's no mechanism in Scientology for succession. If Scientology is prosecuted as an organization, the only thing to take over is the position of 'man holding the bag'.

There will be no revelations of the actual activities of the 'Church' which Rathbun is privy to, since it would cut both ways, however, he will further offer 'confirmation' of other information that gets out that diminishes David Miscavige or any other personal Rathbun 'enemies', both out of personal spite and self-preservation, since a 'weak' Miscavige is less likely to get adventurous against Rathbun; but limited by hesitation to say or do anything that might drive Davey over the 'edge' and into a Sampson Smash.

In the meantime he'll continue his historical revisionism and pandering to his new 'fans' to add to his own influence and affluence.

Zinj



I like this. It shows the different cards he's playing (or that he might see himself as playing). The idea that Rathbun sincerely wants to right some of the wrongs that have happened seems lame to me. Not that it's impossible, just that he is (as far as I know) severely compromised. So putting things right means acknowledging his own wrongdoing because it seems that it is common knowledge and also the knowledge of DM, OSA, and anyone else who might stand against him. With all those factors "righting the wrongs" just has to be very carefully managed strategically otherwise he will end up in serious doo doo. So he does not have the luxury of being the good guy just because he may happen to be good.

The way you have written it zinj, I think you're saying that he doesn't want to set up an alternative organization. I think he is possible considering "what if it fails" (his objectives) and I think he is doing things in a way that should he fail in his primary goal, he will have an alternative path to follow in the FZ and that if he must do that, everything being done now will actually help with that rather than hinder it. He could still get a lot more customers even if it is not inside the "real" org.

His support of ron. Well, call me cynical but he aint going to put SO people and other potential minions and customers off side. I give him the benifit of the doubt and think he's probably pretty intelligent, in which case he will know that what he is blaming DM for is also what ron created. But to control people it is good to have devotion to an authorative figurehead. Rathbun needs ron for that.

He is already behaving as a future cult leader. Not as the bringer of justice.
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
Terril is it ok I fly over there to teach you computers?

Heck, I told you how to use quotes in replies.

I need to blow the USA for a while.

Maybe put Europe on my to do list when I get my repayment if I do.

Does Merry Ole England use MSG In food? LOL

Barb

Hi KK,
I can only find up to no 25 on Marty's website. How do you get
the rest?
 

elwood

Patron with Honors
David Miscavige became head of CoS because he was the only one who knew where the money was. He will remain head of CoS as long as he remains the only one who knows where the money is. No one elso can take over the CoS unless they can find out where the money is.

JMO
 

Doom

Lurking.
Well well well

while I beleve that these "factors" hold truth in most cases Im not shore why the whole "church" thing persists But if you have some of the "basics" lectures and you listen to (dont remember the title) the one on why things persist in the physical universe that will answer your question on Why it perisits.
And if your question now goes to "church thing" well again dont remember the title but maybe somone out there will know, It states planly that sceintolgy is not a religon. :grouch:


that is my 2 cents worth not that it holds much worth what can you get for 2 cents now days:whistling:
 

Björkist

Silver Meritorious Patron
They are all good reading, but some of the factors indicate far more than others.

Thanks, Marty.

:yes:
 

Veda

Sponsor
If one takes these "31 factors," and subtracts the Miscavige-related material, what's left is almost entirely standard Scientology propaganda/PR.

One delusion, circulating amongst some Rathbun-inspired Freezoners, is that LRH's "good name" was besmirched by "SP infiltrators" who violated LRH's (PR-display) "cancellation" of Fair Game, Disconnection, and Security Checking in 1968, in the phony "Reform Code."

It's quite silly.
 
Yes it's silly. But talk to some of the people who swallowed the cool aid
and enjoyed it, all the way through OT levels. Some of them are way beyond silly in some areas.
 
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