Marty admits Hubbard`s history is a crock...

randomx

Patron with Honors
Ortega Calls Bullshit on Miscavige
Posted on March 30, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 34 Comments

Tony Ortega has done a comprehensive article critiquing David Miscavige’s latest Scientology Inc L Ron Hubbard Annual Birthday Celebration. While I don’t particularly cotton to Tony’s anti-Scientology tone and joking and degrading digs, he has done a splendid job of chronicling the fraud and insanity that pass for Scientology Inc events.

Later today I intend to complete and post an article on why Tony’s work is so skilled and important. I am going to connect some dots on how it evidences that Miscavige is L Ron Hubbard’s worst enemy. In the interim, I highly recommend people read and watch and listen to Tony’s presentation.

Ortega Calls Bullshit on Miscavige
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...y_l_ron_hubbard_birthday_celebration_2012.php

By the way, thanks Tony. I have a copy of the full event too, but get nauseous watching more than two or thee minutes at a any given time, and finally just chucked the thing in the trash.

By By the way, someone just pointed out to me that Scientology Inc has been circulating the following statement about me this morning:

Rathbun knows that his back-and-forth with a third rate hack, Tony Ortega, who profits from pimps engaged in sex trafficking, tries to make it appear that Ortega is an unbiased reporter when in fact Ortega has made vile statements about L. Ron Hubbard and the Scientology religion which shows him to be an anti-religious extremist.

I guess they didn’t want me linking to Tony’s article. Too late, and had I seen this infantile OSA statement beforehand, I would have linked earlier.



Miscavige: Hubbard’s Worst Enemy Part I

Posted on March 30, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 46 Comments

In late 2003 I came back to the Scientology Inc international headquarters near Hemet California after eighteen consecutive months away on a variety of missions. I have described the experience before as like having returned to the set of Apocalypse Now. David Miscavige was well on his way toward complete madness. Already he had all International Scientology Managers engaged in marathon group confession sessions. Already he was beating people physically almost daily and by then had at least a dozen lower level executives doing the same to their staffs.

Miscavige would go into several hour rambling rants (sort of like Al Capone meets Colonel Kurtz) with all of international management required to sit attentively around a table watching and listening to him.

Re-enactment of arrival – starring Dennis Hopper as Dan Sherman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kqFwVuQ-Hg&feature=related

Don’t get me wrong, a lot times Miscavige’s soliloquies would cover imporant lofty issues like “enthusiasm” and “teamwork”.

Kinda like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxjiQhjWBvM

But, a seed that had been sown years before was beginning to take root in my mind by late 2003. That was a forbidden thought which began to come off suppress the more violent and insane Miscavige’s suppression became. That was, after Miscavige had literally accused every executive on the base of “black PRing L Ron Hubbard” (saying or doing something that conveyed the idea that something just wasn’t right with the man), after having offloaded many dozens of staff to gulags for having allegedly committing that crime, after enduring dozens of multiple-hour “conferences” – punctuated with sudden, unexpected violence – where Miscavige rambled on that theme, the truth began to crystallize.

The truth became even more clear when I saw what Miscavige resorted to during his occasional, fleeting moments of fear of losing his terror grip on the group of international managers subjected to his sick fantasy. When I saw that fear flash for a moment in his eyes, he resorted to words to this effect:

“Yeah, you sit there in your filthy, motivator-infested blackness thinking ‘LRH wasn’t like that’. I’ve got news. I am mild compared to L Ron Hubbard. And if you have a little evil-purpose festering along the lines of ‘I don’t have to take this shit from COB’, think again. Think this, what is LRH gonna do when he finds out how you’ve been fucking with COB? Because L Ron Hubbard is coming back sooner than you might think. And I can guarantee you of one thing, LRH is not going to be nearly as reasonable and merciful as I am.”

At that moment the truth became crystal clear: the fellow who had destroyed the lives and reputations of hundreds by hanging them with the alleged crime of “black PRing LRH”, was engaged in the most effective black PR campaign imaginable against LRH.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/miscavige-hubbards-worst-enemy-part-i/


L Ron Hubbard’s Worst Enemy – Part II

Posted on March 30, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 70 Comments


Ortega Calls Bullshit on Miscavige

Here is the promised rundown on Tony Ortega’s report of this year’s annual L Ron Hubbard Birthday Celebration event from Clearwater Florida.

It is just about the thirtieth anniversary of my introduction to the strange case of Gerry Armstrong. Armstrong was the LRH archivist who left the church in 1981. That year a tremendous amount of attention had gone onto how the church was promoting L Ron Hubbard to the public. That was because the church was confronting a) the top eleven officials of the Guardian’s Office (including Hubbard’s wife Mary Sue) were facing lengthy jail sentences, while b) a rash of lawsuits had been filed naming the church as well as L Ron Hubbard as defendants, and c) the central claim of each suit was fraud, more specifically alleging that the church lured them into Scientology based on false claims as to L Ron Hubbard’s super man biography. Essentially the claim was that if L Ron Hubbard was not an engineer, nuclear physicist, wounded and crippled war hero who was miraculously healed by his own brainchild Dianetics, and he was not the model of perfect virtue since then, why, then they were defrauded into spending money and devoting years to Scientology.

Now, this is a very short-handed summary of a history that was not clear to me for many years after the facts – notwithstanding my personal involvement in some of it – , not even totally clear until very recently. The whole story will arrive soon enough.

Armstrong pointed out to L Ron Hubbard’s messengers that something had better be done about the representations the church was making. He based that concern on having worked tirelessly to provide David Miscavige’s Special Project (of which I was then the files man for) with material to prove the claims about Hubbard to be true, and coming up empty handed on many counts. David Miscavige’s handling for Armstrong’s origination was to send Norman F Starkey down to the Commodores Messenger Org International to give Armstrong a Severe Reality Adjustment (SRA – loud verbal brow beating) for being “disaffected.” Armstrong then blew, with a few boxes of LRH archives with which to defend himself. In response to being hounded by Miscavige directed PIs for several months, Armstrong reacted by devoting the rest of his life to proving that L Ron Hubbard was a fraud.

As was Miscavige’s habit, he continued to pursue Armstrong as the devil incarnate while at the same time taking Armstrong’s advice, just ignoring the source of it communicating as if it were his own. No more representations about LRH went out without my authorization – which was backed by an extensive fact-checking process.

We sued Armstrong for theft of the archives documents. The trial occurred in early 1984. We had two very competent trial lawyers doing a yeoman-like job putting on the plaintiff’s case for several weeks. By the time the plaintiff’s case rested I had the unenviable task of informing Miscavige that the attorneys wanted authority to enter settlement negotiations before the defendant’s case was presented. The attorneys demonstrated that while we could do significant damage to Armstrong’s credibility, at the end of the day we did not have answers for the far more important and relevant issues – that is, the truth or falsity of representations made by Hubbard and the church about the life of L Ron Hubbard. What’s more, they explained that by a number of comments by the judge (this was a non-jury trial) it was clear the judge was focusing on that lack of evidence . The attorneys reported that Armstrong’s attorney was amenable to settlement – and that this was a short window of opportunity to protect the image of Hubbard and the church; that once Armstrong’s side had the podium we were in for weeks upon weeks of medieval style Inquisition on L Ron Hubbard (all to be covered by the media).

Miscavige, in his inimitable style, called the attorneys “pussies” (his word) and worse and threatened to fire them if they so much as entertained the thought of “settlement”, let alone mentioned it, again.

The attorneys – and their back up staff – did everything in their power, short of being dragged out of court for defying court orders, to keep a lid on the evidence admitted. They also did an admirable job of attempting to discredit the witnesses and evidence they entered.

But, in the end their prognosis turned out to be quite conservative. The judge issued a ruling about Hubbard who of course was not there, finding as a matter of fact that he was a “pathological liar” and “paranoid” and ”schizophrenic.” Not only did L Ron Hubbard’s life history get annihilated by the world wide media – it continued to be for thirty years, with only lame denials in response, as Gerry Armstrong was right all along in this respect: the church had little to no to counter documentation for the claims the church had loudly trumpeted about L Ron Hubbard’s life. Fact of the matter is, the church’s lack of ability to document many of the claims has been such a given fact that it has bred the type of disbelief expressed by Tony Ortega in his most recent article. He can’t believe that that church is not only focusing on the claims, but thirty years later they are exaggerating them even more.

Some of the representations covered in this year’s March 13th event – such as the alleged Oregon sub chasing incident was “regarded as among the most regionally famed encounters of the war” – are so easily discredited that those in the know have to wonder: are the people making such representations attempting to set up L Ron Hubbard for a fall?

It gets worse. The “L Ron Hubbard Biographer” attempts to position LRH as saving the world from “evil” scientists bent on blowing it up. A five minute google research project (for the culturally or historically illiterate who don’t already know it) would show that those “evil” scientists allegedly plotting to destroy earth were engaged in precisely the opposite activity – they were the original movement to demand “conscience” be incorporated into science because of the destructive power of what they were discovering.

To position Richard Nixon with Robert Oppenheimer and Albert Einstein is about as credible as trying to position Adolph Hitler with leading members of the German underground anti-Nazi movement.

It is pure insanity that is issuing from the lips of Dan Sherman and David Miscavige. It is madness. I would write it off as only such if I were not aware of the fact that David Miscavige is acutely aware of who ultimately takes the brunt of this.

What is more a travesty is the overall technique of Sherman and Miscavige. They are attempting to literalize L Ron Hubbard. As any intelligent student of Scientology knows, one of Hubbard’s virtues is his story telling ability. He can lecture for one hour on the subject of a simple principle; and he can tell a number of colorful stories and anecdotes to get the audience to view it from a number of angles to the point where they can understand the principle conceptually. Of course, we also know that Hubbard has done that literally thousands of times and it was all recorded for posterity. So, Sherman and Miscavige come along – take an anecdote out, alone, bereft of any context for what principle it is being used to illustrate, and tell the public:

a) Every word is literally true.

b) That “a” is of utmost importance, or why would they be conveying it with such ostentatious implant a/v technology; and thus

c) L Ron Hubbard ought to be viewed and treated like a God, and not as the thinking and living out of the box kind of guy he was, and thus

d) Scientology is really about belief, and not observation and workability, and thus

e) David Miscavige must be viewed as the Pope, infallibility and all.

While this madness is clearly intended to up the mushroom treatment (being kept in the dark and being fed manure) of captive cult member audiences – David Miscavige is well aware of what its long term effect will be, more years of dragging L Ron Hubbard through the mud publicly as allegedly making false claims as to his history, qualifications and competence.

I keep asking, and I keep meaning it when I do, how can it get any darker than that?

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/l-ron-hubbards-worst-enemy-part-ii/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We now have the, one time, second in command of Scientology, and true believer in Hubbard`s tech, Marty Rathbun, admitting that Hubbard`s biography as reported by the "church" is a fake !!!

This is going to be news to every poster on his blog.

Watch for the comments. And if you happen to be a therapist about to go on holiday.
I suggest you postpone it. You are going to have a busy week.

Finding out that you have been lied to by the guy who is showing you the truth can cause confusion.


randomx

Example...

Ex-RPFer | March 31, 2012 at 12:57 am | Reply

Marty, my point is that everyone, including you needs to actually LOOK into LRH. Really look. When we were in the SO we were made to wear Naval based uniforms because he had been a Navy hero and formed the SO based on Naval principals and all that.

I am sorry to say that NONE of that was true.

THE REST WAS EXCISED – AS THIS IS THE FIRST STRAIGHT OUT LIE STATED AUTHORITATIVELY BY YOU, OPENING A LITANY OF ILL-INFORMED ATTACKS ON HUBBARD. YOU CLEARLY ARE NOT LOOKING, LISTENING NOR ACKNOWLEDGING. YOU ARE PROPAGANDIZING. IF YOU OBJECT TO THIS MODERATION…HEAD OVER TO VILLAGE VOICE OR ESMB – I’M SURE THEY’D LOVE MORE OF THAT ENDLESS PILE ON. – BEST REGARDS, MARTY

Ex-RPFer
 

Veda

Sponsor
Ortega Calls Bullshit on Miscavige
Posted on March 30, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 34 Comments

-snip-

Miscavige: Hubbard’s Worst Enemy Part I

Posted on March 30, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 46 Comments

-snip-

The truth became even more clear when I saw what Miscavige resorted to during his occasional, fleeting moments of fear of losing his terror grip on the group of international managers subjected to his sick fantasy. When I saw that fear flash for a moment in his eyes, he resorted to words to this effect:

“Yeah, you sit there in your filthy, motivator-infested blackness thinking ‘LRH wasn’t like that’. I’ve got news. I am mild compared to L Ron Hubbard. And if you have a little evil-purpose festering along the lines of ‘I don’t have to take this shit from COB’, think again. Think this, what is LRH gonna do when he finds out how you’ve been fucking with COB? Because L Ron Hubbard is coming back sooner than you might think. And I can guarantee you of one thing, LRH is not going to be nearly as reasonable and merciful as I am.”

At that moment the truth became crystal clear: the fellow who had destroyed the lives and reputations of hundreds by hanging them with the alleged crime of “black PRing LRH”, was engaged in the most effective black PR campaign imaginable against LRH.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/miscavige-hubbards-worst-enemy-part-i/

L Ron Hubbard’s Worst Enemy – Part II

Posted on March 30, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 70 Comments

-snip-

The judge issued a ruling about Hubbard who of course was not there [psst, Marty, Hubbard chose not to be there], finding as a matter of fact that he was a “pathological liar” and “paranoid” and ”schizophrenic.” Not only did L Ron Hubbard’s life history get annihilated by the world wide media – it continued to be for thirty years, with only lame denials in response, as Gerry Armstrong was right all along in this respect: the church had little to no to counter documentation for the claims the church had loudly trumpeted about L Ron Hubbard’s life. Fact of the matter is, the church’s lack of ability to document many of the claims has been such a given fact that it has bred the type of disbelief expressed by Tony Ortega in his most recent article. He can’t believe that that church is not only focusing on the claims, but thirty years later they are exaggerating them even more. [psst, it was Hubbard who first exaggerated them. We literal minded Wogs call it lying..]

-snip-

What is more a travesty is the overall technique of Sherman and Miscavige. They are attempting to literalize L Ron Hubbard. ["Literalize L. Ron Hubbard"? See below link to another thread. This is another dishonest PR line and attempted "handling."]

-snip-

David Miscavige is well aware of what its long term effect will be, more years of dragging L Ron Hubbard through the mud publicly as allegedly making false claims as to his history, qualifications and competence.

I keep asking, and I keep meaning it when I do, how can it get any darker than that?

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/l-ron-hubbards-worst-enemy-part-ii/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We now have the, one time, second in command of Scientology, and true believer in Hubbard`s tech, Marty Rathbun, admitting that Hubbard`s biography as reported by the "church" is a fake !!!

-snip-

Uh, not exactly. Just presenting a slightly slicker PR handling.

David Miscavige is universally unpopular, and riding the wave of that (well deserved) unpopularity is a guaranteed path into the minds of those Marty&Friends are seeking to persuade.

But persuade to what?

Marty Rathbun&Friends have, as part of their "mission," the rehabilitation of the image and reputation of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.

From Marty's Rathbun blog:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day. Tony Ortega has even come to the conclusion that my mission - and the mission of many independents - is made hopeless by this historical landscape. The landscape is not easy to conceptualize given its long lived nature and Miscavige's daily efforts to make the myths a reality. Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves..."

And,

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard."

The outside the CoS Scientologists have finally found an effective "button" to "push," with which to apply the following "LRH datum." That button is the "Church" of Scientology as run by David Miscavige, with Miscavige regarded as an "anti-Scientologist":

"The objective is to be identified as attackers of popularly considered evils [Miscavige, and Miscavology, i.e. perverted or 'Reverse Scientology']. This declassifies us from former labels..."

Confidential 'Black Propaganda' 12 January 1972


Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are 'tied up' under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, 'OT I and OT II are of little importance': especially coming from 'Class VIIIs', 'Class VIs' and folks claiming to be 'trained by Ron.' They may as well be saying 'Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.'...

"...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work..."

Marty is attempting to do a "handling," just as Miscavige is attempting to do a "handling." Both are dishonest. Both are Hubbard cultists.

The 'L. Ron Hubbard saves the world thread':

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...bard-Saves-The-World!!1!!&p=675673&viewfull=1

No doubt, watching the ongoing intra-Hubbardite war may be confusing at times, but we Homo Saps are smarter than the Hubbard Scientology OTs realize. :)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...


Fascinating stuff.

Marty Rathbun is now talking about the propaganda and lies of L. Ron Hubbard. Well, not directly---he never connects the dots and says Hubbard lied. One might read his description and conclude that "others" in the CoS lied, not Source.

But, he treads dangerously close to blasphemy. Very out of character! Why would he do such a thing? One reason. . .

Because it positions Miscavige as an enemy of L. Ron Hubbard. It's a convoluted theory, but in Martyland, the number one priority is the destruction of COB's death grip on the COS. Even at the expense of admitting disgraceful information about Hubbard, Marty elects to use the damning information in order to take sniper shots at COB.

It's a mad, mad, mad world over there in Scientology Land these days with Indies vs. Churchies reaching the boiling point. This is gloves down, scorched earth stuff where Scientologists battle for the control of the universe and all spiritual lives, for eternity.

I can't help but think that these folks are having slow motion mental breakdowns.

Here's another goodie (posted by Marty in response to an evil poster whose message he censored:

THE REST WAS EXCISED – AS THIS IS THE FIRST STRAIGHT OUT LIE STATED AUTHORITATIVELY BY YOU, OPENING A LITANY OF ILL-INFORMED ATTACKS ON HUBBARD. YOU CLEARLY ARE NOT LOOKING, LISTENING NOR ACKNOWLEDGING. YOU ARE PROPAGANDIZING. IF YOU OBJECT TO THIS MODERATION…HEAD OVER TO VILLAGE VOICE OR ESMB – I’M SURE THEY’D LOVE MORE OF THAT ENDLESS PILE ON. – BEST REGARDS, MARTY


:hysterical: I just luvvvvvvvv the fact that Rathbun regards ESMB as a "ENDLESS PILE-ON" zone!

What is remarkable about that is the simple and obvious fact that nobody but nobody was more guilty of "ENDLESS PILE-ON" than L. Ron Hubbard Himself. Scientology is nothing but endless pile-on of lie after lie.

But, Marty thinks it is a "pile-on" when the lies are lifted off here on ESMB.

Any more questions on why Rathbun went from decades of criminal thuggery into starting a new cult of Scientology?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Marty has no place else to go but the edge.

It should be interesting to see where this ends up.

Adjustments, for PR purposes, have been made before. For example, in the 1980s, after Omar Garrison (Hubbard's first official biographer, then ex-biographer, whom Gerry Armstrong assisted) appeared on the '60 Minutes' USA TV program, debunking, item by item, Hubbard's false biographical claims, Scientology stopped claiming that Hubbard was a nuclear physicist. Instead, it insisted that he had never claimed to have been a nuclear physicist, only that some literal minded people misinterpreted what he had said and written, etc.

Inside Scientology, Scientologists were told that, although LRH had never been - by "wog" standards - a nuclear physicist, he had taught other nuclear physicists, and nuclear physicists had worked under him, etc. This made Hubbard a kind of super-nuclear physicist.

Anything but tell the simple truth which is that Hubbard LIED.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
You have to admit Marty's new stable datum is as clever as it is all-encompassing:

When Hubbard says something that can be disproved, he is clearly speaking metaphorically, or ironically. People who misrepresent this as blatant lying are deliberately trying to besmirch his good name.​

Doesn't that cover all eventualities?

(That's the closest I could get to an ugly font colour. Comic Sans MS seemed appropriate too.)

Paul
 
Marty is not admiting anything negative about hubbard.
Marty is casting DM as saying nasty untruths about hubbard.
DM is accused of saying the same things that critics and anti -scios say; that the evil goes back to hubbard and therefore did not start with DM.
So, that puts all hubbard accusers in the same box as DM by implication.

Mind you, the knots Marty is tying himself in to say this shit are getting tighter and tighter and he'll end up strangling hisself.

Some of Marty's followers are not 100% in awe of him, to say the least.
The more of that deranged crap he puts up, the lower that 100% gets for all of them.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Interesting times.

This is what I was thinking would happen to the Indies. It's also why I never thought the movement would have a lot of staying power.

Without the enormous pressure of the Church preventing the comparing of notes and the spread of "entheta" information the truth was going to take off like a grass fire.

Next thing these folk might even compare the results of auditing upper levels to the promises, even once they de-DM the tech, my prediction is that there will still be no OTs and no clears.

I know, kinda rash of me, eh?

And they might feel free to say that they aren't what they expected to be after all that upper bridge. What will keep the dream alive in the face of that?
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Marty says plenty of bullshit when he tries to defend Hubbard and his motherfucker legacy. But, because he was at the top of CoS food chain once, he knows the truth about the Tech. The truth is that CoS forged Hubbard's military records to "show" that he cured himself from horrific injuries after the World War II. The timeline shows that the forgery occured in pre-Miscavige era when Hubbard and Pat Broeker were in charge of the cult. But I am sure that both DM and Marty know the name of the person(s) who manufactured the Hubbard military data.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Interesting times.

This is what I was thinking would happen to the Indies. It's also why I never thought the movement would have a lot of staying power.

Without the enormous pressure of the Church preventing the comparing of notes and the spread of "entheta" information the truth was going to take off like a grass fire.

Next thing these folk might even compare the results of auditing upper levels to the promises, even once they de-DM the tech, my prediction is that there will still be no OTs and no clears.

I know, kinda rash of me, eh?

And they might feel free to say that they aren't what they expected to be after all that upper bridge. What will keep the dream alive in the face of that?

Au contraire, Kevin. I think the Independent movement won't be going away, and I suspect it will be expanding. First off, you'll have the people exiting the Church who are still looking for a Scientology community and to keep their dreams alive. Second, you'll have people who hear about Scientology, and no matter how much they are warned, they'll be interested enough to investigate on their own ("one born every minute"). Third, the independent community is much more rational (not saying much) than the Church, and so people can hold on without so much pressure.

I'd suspect that the Indies are here to stay.
 

wazn

Patron with Honors
Interesting times.

...snip

Next thing these folk might even compare the results of auditing upper levels to the promises, even once they de-DM the tech, my prediction is that there will still be no OTs and no clears.

I know, kinda rash of me, eh?

And they might feel free to say that they aren't what they expected to be after all that upper bridge. What will keep the dream alive in the face of that?

The realization that results - Clear, OT and beyond - was all meant metaphorically.
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Au contraire, Kevin. I think the Independent movement won't be going away, and I suspect it will be expanding. First off, you'll have the people exiting the Church who are still looking for a Scientology community and to keep their dreams alive. Second, you'll have people who hear about Scientology, and no matter how much they are warned, they'll be interested enough to investigate on their own ("one born every minute"). Third, the independent community is much more rational (not saying much) than the Church, and so people can hold on without so much pressure.

I'd suspect that the Indies are here to stay.

Looking at the Exit Survey it seems that retention level in the FZ / Indy world is really low. People leave the CoS and give it a go but don't stick around more than a year or two for the most part.

Even some enthusiastic Martyologists appear to have quietly dropped out.

And then there are the people who leave and dump all their Scientology materials straight away. :)
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Looking at the Exit Survey it seems that retention level in the FZ / Indy world is really low. People leave the CoS and give it a go but don't stick around more than a year or two for the most part.

Even some enthusiastic Martyologists appear to have quietly dropped out.

And then there are the people who leave and dump all their Scientology materials straight away. :)

I'm guessing most of these weren't trained auditors, but paying public. While I acknowledge the many evils of Scientology, it's hard for me to imagine a trained auditor quitting delivering sessions to people, when they know they can help.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Au contraire, Kevin. I think the Independent movement won't be going away, and I suspect it will be expanding. First off, you'll have the people exiting the Church who are still looking for a Scientology community and to keep their dreams alive. Second, you'll have people who hear about Scientology, and no matter how much they are warned, they'll be interested enough to investigate on their own ("one born every minute"). Third, the independent community is much more rational (not saying much) than the Church, and so people can hold on without so much pressure.

I'd suspect that the Indies are here to stay.

I think you are wrong.

The "indies" exist only because the CofS - they are the detritus of that noisome organization. People who left that but cannot leave the mind fuck as yet.

the Indies will grow as the remaining rats jump ship but they will shrink as the supply of victims diminishes.

The CofS history is very demonstrative - it shows that the organizations need to suck in vast numbers of "raw meat" continuously in order to create a very small number of scientologists and to make up for the continuing drain of people leaving.

The Freezone and indie people I have seen or read seem to be so busy trying to be "mini-Hubbards" that they attract very few new people and only seem to be semi-successful in sucking the blood of those that leave.

So as the "Church" lurches ever downward so the Indies will follow.

Thankfully.
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm guessing most of these weren't trained auditors, but paying public. While I acknowledge the many evils of Scientology, it's hard for me to imagine a trained auditor quitting delivering sessions to people, when they know they can help.

The exit survey has training details too. I haven't tried to correlate these two things but one could have a look.

However, the evidence is that a lot of "trained auditors" have given up the subject entirely over the years.
 
I'm guessing most of these weren't trained auditors, but paying public. While I acknowledge the many evils of Scientology, it's hard for me to imagine a trained auditor quitting delivering sessions to people, when they know they can help.

I'm not so sure it works that way. I suppose if they are still thinking of themselves as scientologists, yes, but then some of the highly trained ones drop it altogether. Maybe they can see the whole web of lies, whereas the untrained might not be able to see the whole picture, plus the details and cannot connect the dots........?
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

The Freezone and indie people I have seen or read seem to be so busy trying to be "mini-Hubbards" that they attract very few new people and only seem to be semi-successful in sucking the blood of those that leave.

-snip-

Posted http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=396941&postcount=851

Excerpted text below:

"On the 19th of February, 2010 I attested to OTVII. When Pierre asked if I would like to attest, I felt the burden of millions of years of enslavement finally lift from my shoulders...

"I retired from my job in 2001 and I reevaluated my position in Scientology. I had about $150,000. in my savings. I could either leave that money for my kids to spend when I died or I could spend it on myself in Scientology... I chose the latter...

"It is now my intention to go to OT XV with Pierre. I look forward to what I know will be an exciting and very rewarding journey..."
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
You have to admit Marty's new stable datum is as clever as it is all-encompassing:

When Hubbard says something that can be disproved, he is clearly speaking metaphorically, or ironically. People who misrepresent this as blatant lying are deliberately trying to besmirch his good name.​

Doesn't that cover all eventualities?

(That's the closest I could get to an ugly font colour. Comic Sans MS seemed appropriate too.)

Paul
Excellent summation!

What Marty doesn't explain is why Hubbard himself never corrected the church when it included all his "metaphors", "ironies" and "allegories" in their official biography of him. What would be Marty's explanation of that?

Bill
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
In the Church, I was not a trained auditor. I left due to disagreements and stress, cognitive dissonance, etc. However, on leaving, I did not stop auditing people with the few processes I did know, and the people I worked with were uniformly NOT scientologists, and not interested in becoming Scientologists, which was fine with me, but meant there was nobody to give ME a session. :pout:

Eventually, the more I looked, the more I realized that the theoretical basis for the success of the procedures in Scientology was weak, but that didn't mean the processes were unsuccessful (though what they did was not what the Church stated they did).

To this day, I continue to use processes, though I call them procedures, now, which would be recognizable to Scientologists, but I have found a better explanatory framework , and scrapped the stuff I always thought was coercive or bullshit in the first place. I no longer call myself an auditor, and what I do is NOT scientology. However, I do give sessions, and they are what I intended to be doing in Scientology before I ever entered the Church or read the Dianetics book.

I suspect a lot of the auditors who do stop auditing probably do so because of doubts about theory and concern about harming their public, as well as having to go out and make a living and have a regular life, now. I totally would understand that. It just would surprise me for people who did KNOW that what they had done with a person had benefited that person would stop doing that thing. If they had come to the decision that their work had only made people stick to the orgs for longer, I could understand quitting. It's tricky.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Top part is a re-post.

People have been leaving the CofS since 1954 when Scientology was incorporated as a Church. Before that, people left Dianetics, some of the better remembered are J.A. Winter (who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH'), and John Campbell (who published the first article on Dianetics in his 'Astounding Science Fiction' magazine). They left in 1950 and 1951.

Then came the transition to Scientology, after Hubbard lost the rights to the name 'Dianetics', and decided to drive former business partner, supporter and benefactor, Don Purcell, bonkers by concocting - pretty much overnight - "Whole Track Maps," and then the book 'History of Man' ("This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years.") And more left.

Richard DeMille, who wrote some pieces now attributed to Hubbard, left around 1953. There were many others.

Around 1954, Hubbard, applying his "religion angle," wrote a for-display-to-Raw-Meat&Homo-Saps&Wogs 'Creed', and made Scientology a "Church," and more left.

In 1959, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. left.

Lots of people left in the early 1960s with the era of 'Security Checking', deciding that any group that insists that its members undergo metered interrogation, with such questions as "Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?" was not for them.

By 1965, Hubbard wrote 'Keeping Scientology Working', invented the SP Doctrine and SP Declares, Disconnection, the Fair Game Law, and the very confidential, "deadly serious," and vital to your survival, history of the universe&your mind, and starting calling himself 'Source', and many more people left. Amongst them was the first person to have been a 'Doctor of Scientology' (the Class 12 of that day), Jack Horner.

In 1967 came the Sea Org and Xenu, and more left.

By the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Commodore and his ashtray-carrying 13 year old girl servants were a law unto themselves on the 'Flagship', the "safest and sanest place in the universe," and more left.

John McMaster, 'The World's First Real Clear' and the 'Pope' of Scientology, left.

Writer William Burroughs came along, was involved briefly, did the Clearing Course then, upon completion, when asked if he wished to sign up for OT2, said, "No thanks," and left.

Many others left.

Then came the RPF and the RPF'ss RPF, and more left.

By early 1977, Hubbard had written his "LSD, Years after they had Come of off' HCOB, in which he described people who had ever taken LSD as "zombies," and soon after told them that they were required to wear rubber suits and run around for hours, and more left.

Then, in July 1977 came the FBI raids, and two years later came the court-ordered release of thousands of pages of secret Scientology documents, revealing much of Hubbard's secret spying and covert attack tech, and even more left.

Then Hubbard decided that almost everyone was "Clear" and needed to exit Missions (which he was in the early stage of looting), and go "up lines" and spend their money there; and, while in hiding from (real or imagined) subpoena servers, Hubbard even wrote a "Common Sense Moral Code" - making him an authority on "morality" - that advised, amongst other things, against being sexually promiscuous so as to avoid having "ground glass in the soup," and more people left.

This was followed, a few years later, by Hubbard responding to the Mission Holders Meeting of late 1981 by sending his #1 henchman, David Miscavige, to "handle" the next Mission Holders meeting of late 1982, and more left.

Then, roughly around that time, came the partial unearthing of Hubbard's past by way of the "Shannon documents," obtained through the Freedom of Information act (by a curious non-Scientologist), and more left.

By July 1984, there was Gerry Armstrong vs. Church of Scientology, and the further unearthing of Hubbard's past, and even more left.

Then came books like 'Messiah or Madman?' and 'Barefaced Messiah', and many more left.

Then came the Internet.



Scientology has always had a big front door and a big back door, and outside the CofS Scientology is no different. There is, however, a difference between leading someone into the Hubbard - bait and switch - labyrinth of significance (implants, Xenu, ancient psychs, etc.), and the simple act of counselling another.

In any event, wasn't this thread about Marty Rathbun's latest efforts at PR damage control for his hero, L. Ron?
 
Top