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Marty: Clearwater Independents

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Marty: Clearwater Independents:
Christie King Collbran was in the Sea Org from the age of 16 until the age of 29. She was well known as a hot shot Establishment Officer. She endured sadistic and bizarre injustice for the simple reason that she would not robotically follow demands to abandon her personal integrity. She finally left the Sea Org three years ago. Earlier this year she began to explore credible accounts of corruption at the top of the org board that corroborated her own observations. For having the integrity to simply explore the truth, her mother and father were recruited by Miscavology agents to intimidate her into silence and unthinking compliance. Despite their own misgivings about what the Church had become during their decades-long involvement, they chose to relay the Church’s ultimatum of “our way or the highway” to their daughter – and by extention to their two year old grandson. Christie was declared for failing to cave to this cowardly coercion tactic. Despite that she is going through a divorce, and is the mother of a wonderful child whom she cherishes and nurtures, she chose to maintain her personal integrity over the relatively comfortable life she had created for her family since leaving the SO. Her certainty has increased as she has strenghtened her personal integrity through this ordeal. She has spent more of her time sharing that strength with others similarly situated to herself than to her own personal future. Through all this Christie has become a more admirable example of what a real Scientologist is than I ever had the privilege to associate with during my decades within Miscavology.

Cathy Greenbaum was a Flag public in the nineties when she and her husband divorced. Since her husband was a high-roller “OT” Flag public, the Miscavology machine lurched its formidable canons on his side pointed at her. She was threatened with a suppressive person declare at the Mecca if she did not give up all of her legal rights in favor of her ex-husband. Cathy never allowed her affinity for her then-young child to be alloyed, and took the declare without forfeiting her personal integrity. She endured eleven years of isolation from all friends she had made in the Miscavology community. And while her husband steered her son into that community and attempted to alienate him from his mother, Cathy never abandoned her love for her child nor her own integrity. She had every reason to go after the Church of Scientology, to doubt everything she ever personally thought she got out of it, and cash in personally. Instead, she carried on with dignity and built her character through the adversity.You cannot bestow or manufacture strength like that. I don’t care how many FCCI intensives or IAS statuses you buy.

When Christie and Cathy connected up, these two incredible beings began to naturally acknowledge and validate one another’s virtues. Together,they generate a theta energy that can be felt and drawn upon from thousands of miles away. Their example humbles and inspires me and Mosey every day.

Christie can be reached at: [email protected]

Cathy can be reached at: [email protected]
On the WWP thread Marty Rathbun posts some Personal Stories some people posted, and I responded, as follows:

Well the kid is pretty cute, but I don't understand why they chose to post this on Marty's page and not get a face book or something.
Because they're responding to his posts about building a community and they are most likely to be seen by like-minded people on MR's site.

The kid is very cute.
ChesleySullenberger is correct, but there is more to it than that.

As an ex-Scientologist, my experience is that Scientologists and ex-Scientologists are, when compared to the population at large, disproportionately attracted to hierarchy, rules and text. They want a leader. They want someone to tell them the answers. They want someone to show them the way. Marty can fulfill that role.

The people who join, or in the past have joined, Scientology are less likely, when compared to the population at large, to form non-hierarchical, flat, spontaneous, organic, disorganized and chaotic organizations that one would expect to form on Facebook. Or like, well, Anonymous. :cool: After all, who would be the I/C (Scientologese for "In Charge")?

Let me also say that Marty is extremely and (depending on his motives and goals) disturbingly good at communicating with ex-Scientologists. Consider this small passage in his "Clearwater Independents" essay:
Cathy never allowed her affinity for her then-young child to be alloyed, and took the declare without forfeiting her personal integrity.
This language, this construction, is straight out of point 7 of the Scientology Code of Honor:
7. Never permit your affinity to be alloyed.

Only a Scientologist or ex-Scientologist would talk about someone's affinity being alloyed; no one else would use such language (or understand it). Conversely, any ex-Scientologist will instantly recognize this. Many ex-Scientologists will instantly respond to this and/or be impressed because in Scientology the Code of Honor is an entirely voluntary ethical code and is therefore considered by many Scientologists and ex-Scientologists to be the highest code there is.

The response of many exes will be: "Oh, she didn't allow her affinity for her son to be alloyed! She was acting consistent with the Code of Honor! Maybe these are true, ethical Scientologists with whom I can form a group...."

Also notice that Marty criticizes only "the Miscavology community." In Marty's view, there is nothing wrong with true Scientology. No, the fault lays with, and only with, "Miscavology."

In referring to "Miscavology" and "the Miscavology community" Marty has: (1) created advantageous shorthand lables; (2) delegitimized both DM and the current COS; (3) set himself up as a leader (or the leader?) of "true" Scientology; and (4) set up two recognizable opposing groups.

The last point can be particularly important if the Scientologist or ex-Scientologist applies the doubt formula. One cannot apply the doubt formula if there is not another "group" to "join or remain in or befriend." Which says something by itself.

Also notice the behavior he praises:
She had every reason to go after the Church of Scientology, to doubt everything she ever personally thought she got out of it, and cash in personally. Instead, she carried on with dignity and built her character through the adversity.You cannot bestow or manufacture strength like that.
Marty's message is that the praiseworthy conduct is not to doubt Scientology, or attempt to cash in, but to instead build one's character through adversity -- and to continue to believe in the tech.

ps. The fact that Marty chose to post the picture of a cute kid was no accident. Think about how many people in this thread have already commented about the "cute kid."
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Regardless of Mr Rathbun's intentions, he's certainly doing a damn fine job of focusing dissenting Scientologists against DM.:thumbsup:

His positioning is perfect for the public he's after and he certainly does have some very talented (and well educated) ex-scilons working with him.:yes:

I think DM has gone underground (if you can call retreating to the Deathwinds that) and won't come out any time soon due largely to what Marty has rolling along.

And the Scilon celebs are deafeningly quiet too.:whistling:

Add to that BFG's case, the case in France, the constant footbullets OSA fire here in Oz, etc. etc. - there's not too much looking good for "The World's Fastest-Growing Religion.":D
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Also notice the behavior he praises:Marty's message is that the praiseworthy conduct is not to doubt Scientology, or attempt to cash in, but to instead build one's character through adversity -- and to continue to believe in the tech.

Yes. In other words: Get rid of Miscavige, but whatever you do don't ask for your extorted money back or sue the CofS, i.e. please leave the CofS as it is financially.

Paul
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Is this pattern continuing, even in Hubbard's absence?

"And look at this pattern... He [Hubbard] surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who is 'this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior'... surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to break, use, and discard another person.

"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody is that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said, 'My God, I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did this to his own wife who went to jail in his place..."

Martin Samuels, Ex-Scientologist, former Mission Holder and founder of the Delphian School, interviewed in 1986.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
2. Never withdraw allegiance once granted.

3. Never desert a group to which you owe your support.

Well duh.

Never recognize the blood sucker on your neck.

Zinj
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
For a while, after I left the "church" I tried to find a way that I could still practice SCn without being connected. I actually found the self auditing course and tried it for a while. Then I came to the conclusion that it was not possible for DM to have taken over without some approval from Ron. I then started my research into all of the sources that source stole from and came to the conclusion that the evil started with Ron and just continued with DM. The only thing I wan't from Scn now, is what I have with you people. Thank you all for being here. :bighug:

Love and Respect

Bob
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Well, KhaKhan, I've seen SEVERAL ex church members who were also EX Scn'ists post things that seemed QUITE hierarchy-conscious, even while claiming to no longer have any use for it.

I used to get regularly bapped in the face with it by Magoo, for example.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
For a while, after I left the "church" I tried to find a way that I could still practice SCn without being connected. I actually found the self auditing course and tried it for a while. Then I came to the conclusion that it was not possible for DM to have taken over without some approval from Ron. I then started my research into all of the sources that source stole from and came to the conclusion that the evil started with Ron and just continued with DM. The only thing I wan't from Scn now, is what I have with you people. Thank you all for being here. :bighug:

Love and Respect

Bob

Ditto GreyWolf. Ditto.

:grouphug:
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Well, KhaKhan, I've seen SEVERAL ex church members who were also EX Scn'ists post things that seemed QUITE hierarchy-conscious, even while claiming to no longer have any use for it.
I agree. I have seen the same phenomenon many, many times.

Perhaps I should have more precisely said, or said in addition, that as an ex-Scientologist my experience is that people who are, or at sometime were, attracted to Scientology are, when compared to the population at large, disproportionately attracted to hierarchy, rules and text. They want a leader. They want someone to tell them the answers. They want someone to show them the way.

That has been my experience. YMMV.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
That's an interesting conclusion. Could be true. Not sure. I know some hippie New Age types got into it, then sucked in, then subject to the regimentation, but, still, with free will and all...why do people go along with it? "Must be something inside" as the song says...which would support your hypothesis.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I agree. I have seen the same phenomenon many, many times.

Perhaps I should have more precisely said, or said in addition, that as an ex-Scientologist my experience is that people who are, or at sometime were, attracted to Scientology are, when compared to the population at large, disproportionately attracted to hierarchy, rules and text. They want a leader. They want someone to tell them the answers. They want someone to show them the way.

That has been my experience. YMMV.

Mostly, Scientologists want *certainty*. That's what distinguishes them from the wog public at large. They want *certainty*.

Zinj
 

Miss Penguin

Patron with Honors
I think that whatever people need to do to feel that they are back in the driver's seat of their own life, the more power to them. If this kind of Meet Up group is what works for them, then I wish them well.

I also think it serves as an example to people still in the church (if they see these Independent Scientologist, or just exes for that matter) that there is life and a successful life at that, beyond the C of S. We know how the C of S, especially the S.O. likes to hide the fact that many ex-S.O. went on to do very well in life. The C of S would have its members believe that once you leave your life goes downhill.

Anything that makes exes, and their successes in life more visible is a good thing. It is the viewpoint of many Scientologist (especially staff) that if you leave it is because you have some huge case outness or out-ethics and you are doomed to wonder the earth as the walking dead, failing at all you attempt.

The opposite is true, you start living and engaging life.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
That's an interesting conclusion. Could be true. Not sure. I know some hippie New Age types got into it, then sucked in, then subject to the regimentation
I think it may depend on when one joined the COS. I joined in the mid-1980s, by which time things were very regimented and hierarchical. That is the basis of my experience and my factual inferences.

My understanding from reading books on COS history and listening to and reading posts by old-timers is that the COS was much more "hippie," new-age, and looser in (or at least for periods of time during) the 1960s and 1970s. For example, I've read that there was a a degree of "free love," sexual promiscuity, etc. in the 1960s and perhaps 1970s that then caused LRH to crack down and impose "out 2D" rules for fear of sustaining harm to the reputation of the Church. Certainly, before the invention and enforcement of the rigid Bridge, there was flexibility and professional judgment in the auditing that was not present at later times.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I think it may depend on when one joined the COS. I joined in the mid-1980s, by which time things were very regimented and hierarchical. That is the basis of my experience and my factual inferences.

My understanding from reading books on COS history and listening to and reading posts by old-timers is that the COS was much more "hippie," new-age, and looser in (or at least for periods of time during) the 1960s and 1970s. For example, I've read that there was a a degree of "free love," sexual promiscuity, etc. in the 1960s and perhaps 1970s that then caused LRH to crack down and impose "out 2D" rules for fear of sustaining harm to the reputation of the Church. Certainly, before the invention and enforcement of the rigid Bridge, there was flexibility and professional judgment in the auditing that was not present at later times.

Correct. We used to hang around the org to socialise back then.
 
I think that whatever people need to do to feel that they are back in the driver's seat of their own life, the more power to them. If this kind of Meet Up group is what works for them, then I wish them well.

I also think it serves as an example to people still in the church (if they see these Independent Scientologist, or just exes for that matter) that there is life and a successful life at that, beyond the C of S. We know how the C of S, especially the S.O. likes to hide the fact that many ex-S.O. went on to do very well in life. The C of S would have its members believe that once you leave your life goes downhill.

Anything that makes exes, and their successes in life more visible is a good thing. It is the viewpoint of many Scientologist (especially staff) that if you leave it is because you have some huge case outness or out-ethics and you are doomed to wonder the earth as the walking dead, failing at all you attempt.

The opposite is true, you start living and engaging life.

More power to individuals to be in the drivers seat of their own lives, but Marty R. running a group to spread a net to gather people together, to me means Marty R. trying to run the Scientology game, the LRH game, the OSA game, of being in the drivers seat of everybody else's lives. In the FZ or independepents or whatever they call themselves I think that is what some yearn for too. Not all of them, but the loonies with the Captain Bill intergalactic rodeo show with sectors and Officers and attacking enemies everywhere.......They have to save the galaxy.
With Marty the "galaxy" may be his own arse and spiritually needy people may be very useful to him.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nowdays it would be about as attractive as bathing with piranhas. Regge anyone?

Zinj

I totally agree too - even in the mid-eighties there were good times to be had hanging around the org after post finished.:yes:

By the nineties the only time people hung around were because Miscavige had ordered them to view yet another one of His events yet again. :nazi:

And there were "guards" posted at the front door to make sure you didn't sneak out.:omg:

Whatever fun there had been, the dwarf soon made sure that it disappeared - after all, "this is a deadly serious business.":dieslaughing:
 
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