Marty defends the concept of Body Thetans (BTs)

Free Being Me

Crusader
I do not agree. If you let goofy beliefs go unchecked and unchallenged out in the wider world, and they develop enough of a following, they start to creep their way into the mainstream. Quack medicine works like this, and it kills, injures and defrauds thousands each year.

And eventually the goofy fuckers get powerful enough and bold enough to attempt to force their views on the mainstream. And sometimes they come pretty damn close to succeeding. 6 to 4 is a pretty fucking scary vote total.

Yes indeed, beliefs are powerful perceptions and can be easily manipulated. Witness the Elcon/tek defenders/apologists who get so touchy about beliefs insisting beliefs don't mean anything ... yet believe in a con man and his mind control.
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
regardless, BT's other dimensional beings breaking through the veil, or WHATEVER.
Scientologist never came close to their own definition of nirvana, which was CAUSE.
that is just messed up and total FAIL.
as a matter of fact, one would wonder why they were/ and still are totally obsessed with that concept.
 

Gib

Crusader
I do not agree. If you let goofy beliefs go unchecked and unchallenged out in the wider world, and they develop enough of a following, they start to creep their way into the mainstream. Quack medicine works like this, and it kills, injures and defrauds thousands each year.

And eventually the goofy fuckers get powerful enough and bold enough to attempt to force their views on the mainstream. And sometimes they come pretty damn close to succeeding. 6 to 4 is a pretty fucking scary vote total.

hubbard's ARC triangle, he promoted the most important point was communication.

I surmised not true. Communication is just the carrier wave. Most important is reality, or agreement. And boy it runs deep.

And hubbard sure worked hard to get agreement on his view of life and past lives. And yet the dude says to not evaluate. Go figure. The whole Bridge to freedom is a evaluation. Having BT's is a evaluation. It's all telling the person what to think and agree to.

As far as the medico's. Jeez, they are doing better and better with new discoveries and technologies. And they don't claim 100% success as hubturd did. :melodramatic:
 

Gib

Crusader
hubbard's ARC triangle, he promoted the most important point was communication.

I surmised not true. Communication is just the carrier wave. Most important is reality, or agreement. And boy it runs deep.

And hubbard sure worked hard to get agreement on his view of life and past lives. And yet the dude says to not evaluate. Go figure. The whole Bridge to freedom is a evaluation. Having BT's is a evaluation. It's all telling the person what to think and agree to.

As far as the medico's. Jeez, they are doing better and better with new discoveries and technologies. And they don't claim 100% success as hubturd did. :melodramatic:

here's an example:

posted by terril above a few posts

However I firmly agree with the concept of entities, BTs, entanglements with
other beings. For what its worth.
 

Gib

Crusader
Yes, but he did have a point on the doctor thing. No ones perfect and I never thought I would agree with Terril on anything but life has its surprises.

yes, I understand that.

If you recall, hubbard says in DMSMH or eslewhere, that the medicos only get a 10% cure rate. I forget the numbers. Doesn't matter really. But hubbard continues to talk and he boasts that Dianetics is 100%.

That's the difference.

What's the difference, well it's hubbard SELLING his technology and getting peeps to AGREE with him. And he later on turns around and says in KSW no other practices are allowed. So in effect, no comparison of notes. No comparison of other practices are allowed.
 

Queenmab321

Patron Meritorious
Hmmmm!

There is the wacky belief on the efficacy of medicine. The FDA is certainly
bold and powerful enough!

http://www.yourmedicaldetective.com/public/335.cfm

Just teasing though with serious intent. The third most cause of death in the US is interaction with doctors.

This whole area needs ongoing serious study, and in part is probably getting it.

Labelling some areas as goofy, though perhaps sometimes correct, can stop research.

You're supposed to be an objective scientist!!! Instead you rely on your
prejudices.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

One either accepts or rejects the proposition that there are reliable methods of empirical research and that, on the basis of these methods, a rigorous standard of proof for any and all claims about the natural world has been established by an international scientific community that is genuinely striving to understand the natural world as best it can. If one concedes to this proposition, one does not, by any means, infer that a comprehensive or exhaustive understanding of the world has been achieved, but one may, nevertheless, dispense with a great deal of nonsense that many take for real phenomena.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hmmmm!

There is the wacky belief on the efficacy of medicine. The FDA is certainly
bold and powerful enough!

http://www.yourmedicaldetective.com/public/335.cfm

Just teasing though with serious intent. The third most cause of death in the US is interaction with doctors.

This whole area needs ongoing serious study, and in part is probably getting it.

Labelling some areas as goofy, though perhaps sometimes correct, can stop research.

You're supposed to be an objective scientist!!! Instead you rely on your
prejudices.

Please, stop. Let's try not interacting with doctors at all and see how the death toll is affected in a year or two. Are you volunteering for that study?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

One either accepts or rejects the proposition that there are reliable methods of empirical research and that, on the basis of these methods, a rigorous standard of proof for any and all claims about the natural world has been established by an international scientific community that is genuinely striving to understand the natural world as best it can.

I broadly agree.

If one concedes to this proposition, one does not, by any means, infer that a comprehensive or exhaustive understanding of the world has been achieved, but one may, nevertheless, dispense with a great deal of nonsense that many take for real phenomena.

Problematical area.

You are truly a Queen :)
 

Queenmab321

Patron Meritorious
If one concedes to this proposition, one does not, by any means, infer that a comprehensive or exhaustive understanding of the world has been achieved, but one may, nevertheless, dispense with a great deal of nonsense that many take for real phenomena.



Problematical area.

Well, for example, it was once commonly accepted that victims of epileptic seizures were inhabited by evil spirits. Once it became apparent that the symptoms observed in sufferers are in fact attributable to a pathology that can, in turn, be understood in terms of the mechanism of the brain and body, the spirits became gratuitous.

You are truly a Queen :)

Thanks?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Please, stop. Let's try not interacting with doctors at all and see how the death toll is affected in a year or two. Are you volunteering for that study?

Very interesting idea!!!

You make an excellent point with few words.

Its very complex. One area is the oncoming failure of antibiotics. Its already current.

One of my customers, "The most beautiful Dr in the UK" , agreed that antibiotic use
should be minimised to preserve their efficacy.

This is a apocalyptic time bomb that I believe nothing will stop.

Phages, virus's that may attack bacteria, have been bought from former
eastern european researchers, perhaps the last chance, may not be widely available,
less at a price.

Sadly I've volunteered on interaction with Doctors in the UK. Age :(

Had to unilaterally adjust meds that my Doctor wouldn't consider.
Fortunately Specialists agreed with me.

The system here is probably one of the best in the world. Its free.

I waited 6 months to see a specialist re a twisted knee and ligament damage.

I thought that I was further damaging my knee. Seems now its very slowly getting better.

I'm lucky to be here and somewhat educated.

There are though many horror stories.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I agree with you that you have to act (or not) on those beliefs whatever they may be but those beliefs dictate what you're going to do or not do. Like fair game people, run an osa op on them, disconnect families, etc. You know, the stuff Elcon was doing while selling his mindfuck tek that you still believe in.

I don't "believe in" Hubbard's "mindfuck tek". Hubbard took his good bits primarily from Freud's early abreactive analysis work. 1890's. Good stuff. He dressed it up in science fiction language, made outrageous claims about it, but that doesn't mean those elements aren't effective and helpful. Even science confirms it!
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
At the moment of action/inaction those beliefs are the primer of what a will person will do/not do, such as Elcon's $cientology beliefs that lead to people being harmed. You know, a mind control cult. Beliefs aren't harmless, people live or die by them.

Everyone has beliefs. Most people think their beliefs are different, confirmed by science, confirmed by experience, etc. In the end, we all have 'em. Most beliefs are pretty harmless, but yes, beliefs that a person is a Suppressive and should be destroyed, deprived of property, family, etc., that's a primer for some serious bad karma.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Well, for example, it was once commonly accepted that victims of epileptic seizures were inhabited by evil spirits. Once it became apparent that the symptoms observed in sufferers are in fact attributable to a pathology that can, in turn, be understood in terms of the mechanism of the brain and body, the spirits became gratuitous.



Thanks?

I'm sure you are quite correct on the above. I once had a seizure resulting from
trauma. Never happened again. Without modern data on the mechanisms of such,
spiritual causes seem appropriate.

However explaining all phenomena without the idea of spirit is not my bag.

You are a Queen of logic and manners :)
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
I like what Terrill Park posted..

”The truth shall set you free”. So consider if what Sarge has said is true. If you conclude it is, consider what further freedom you gain? If you consider it not true you could give reasons and discussions here may lead you to another truth. The world is your oyster."

If Marty & others choose to believe in BTs, who cares what anyone else thinks? No one is being harmed or abused as the result of a PERSONAL belief. :)
I disagree.

Many Jews were persecuted because it was believed that they had harmed a consecrated wafer of bread, and thus injured Christ. Until you've heard that, you might be tempted to believe that a belief in the literal transubstantiation would be a harmless belief. People have suffered and died over this.

Similarly, the Islamic belief in martyrdom is implicated in a great deal of suffering.

Beliefs have consequences.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Everyone has beliefs. Most people think their beliefs are different, confirmed by science, confirmed by experience, etc. In the end, we all have 'em. Most beliefs are pretty harmless, but yes, beliefs that a person is a Suppressive and should be destroyed, deprived of property, family, etc., that's a primer for some serious bad karma.

<snip>No one is being harmed or abused as the result of a PERSONAL belief. :)

More than just bad Karma, Elcon sp beliefs can lead to illegalities ... such as what happened to Paulette Cooper.

Paulette Cooper - Operation Freak Out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout
"Operation Freakout, also known as Operation PC Freakout, was a Church of Scientology covert plan intended to have the US author and journalist Paulette Cooper imprisoned or committed to a mental institution. The plan, undertaken in 1976 following years of Church-initiated lawsuits and covert harassment, was meant to eliminate the perceived threat that Cooper posed to the Church and obtain revenge for her publication in 1971 of a highly-critical book, The Scandal of Scientology. The Federal Bureau of Investigation discovered documentary evidence of the plot and the preceding campaign of harassment during an investigation into the Church of Scientology in 1977, eventually leading to the Church compensating Cooper in an out-of-court settlement."
 
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xemnu

Patron with Honors

Thanks for the link to Quantum Woo.
An anecdote: in the sixties radioactivity was explained as the reason for superheroes getting their weird superpowers (Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Spider-Man, Hulk and the X-Men all got their powers from them or their parents being exposed to radioactivity). A decade later, radioactivity wasn't such a mystery and its actual effects on the human body were known.
In the 80s comics writers started to resort to quantum physics or rather quantum woo.
 
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