[Marty]: DM had JB bug hotel room of MSH

i'mglib

Patron with Honors
I think Marty and crew are on step 3. Some are possibly on step 4 even.

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html

Title: 9 steps out of Scientology
Author: Arnie Lerma
Date: 31 Aug 1997 17:01:27 -0700
REVISED-1

I was in the cult and on staff for 10 years... here are the stages I have seen... as one exits the 'Hubbardian' mind control program....

1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
why is (______) going on?

[ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

2) The guys at the top must be crazy

3) Miscavige and crew are evil demons from another dimension
[ or something similar ]

4) Hubbard went crazy at the end .....

5) Hubbard went crazy in 1966

6) Hubbard was mad from the start.

7) This whole thing is a complete fraud

8) my god, its a criminal organization... with criminal convictions
all over the world... and it was only about money

9) realization that THERE ARE NO OT's THERE!

10) realizing, after leaving Scientology, this makes one an ex-nazi and wanting to do something about it
 
I think Marty and crew are on step 3. Some are possibly on step 4 even.

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html

thanks much for posting this, imglib. Somehow I missed Arnie's 10 Steps.
I've seen others' similar "levels" of unwashing the brain.

In the beginning I was so harshly judgmental of those who didn't just "snap out of it!" because I did, but compared to others: Now I realize those who went through so much, invested so much, so long, it's hard to imagine overcoming the severity and enormity of the shock absorbing it all.

I started checking out the old man first, and the rest fell like dominoes. But I didn't have the kind of investment that others did.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I can see any number of Scientologists being on various 'levels' of escape and denial. Not Marty. He's outright lying and he knows it. As does Mike Rinder.

Zinj
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Keep reminding us

I can see any number of Scientologists being on various 'levels' of escape and denial. Not Marty. He's outright lying and he knows it. As does Mike Rinder.

Zinj

Keep reminding us, Zinj - so we NEVER FORGET . . .

We must never forget . . .
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
No, it was definitely later than that. 82' it was still if you got pregnant, you went to Class V orgs.

Which one are you referring to then? And prior to 82 no-one got sent to class IV orgs if they got pregnant we had nurseries - well OK, assault and battery farms
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
OCMB

I seem to recall reading a story - by Cheryl????? - I think it was on OCMB, and she had a baby about this time period, and she and husband were sent to Santa Barbara (I think). Go there and try to find it. I am sorry I don't recall this better. I might even have the name wrong (which I believe is not even her real name).

I too like to pin-point what year was what. It helps me put my own history - with scn - together - because - quite frankly - I just don't remember the time periods all that well. Mostly it is just 'circa' for me, until I can tie it something that I know the date of.

Good luck.
 

TEoS

Patron with Honors
In January 1986 Suzette Hubbard was engaged to be married to then-Marketing Exec International Guy White. Suzette’s father L. Ron Hubbard died on January 24th that same year.

I thought Hubbard deliberately dropped his meat body to continue his research into the upper OT levels? Died? That's sounds so... so, wog'ish.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I thought Hubbard deliberately dropped his meat body to continue his research into the upper OT levels? Died? That's sounds so... so, wog'ish.

I am planning to come back next lifetime to check if the C of S didn't rise again :p
 
Which one are you referring to then? And prior to 82 no-one got sent to class IV orgs if they got pregnant we had nurseries - well OK, assault and battery farms

Prior to, yes. After, I'm not sure to be honest on timeline. It seems when LRH died and Suzette was pregnant shortly afterward, the no babies no way came out.
I got out around 84 and "sent to other orgs" was norm for sure by then. I was relieved for the kids' sake.

Because of my position, I didn't spend much time on the base, got to do what I loved. Christ, I didn't even have to wear those horrid uniforms. If anyone had told me how "lucky" I was, i would have gone wtf? But I was.
When the Sheriff (DM) came to town, that all ended. I was grounded and shocked when I landed. There were massive escapes then. DM was never what shocked me. It was those that stayed.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Coerced abortions were the *solution* to the rampant child abuse of the Cadet Org. Which *Ron* instituted.

Zinj
 
Coerced abortions were the *solution* to the rampant child abuse of the Cadet Org. Which *Ron* instituted.

Zinj

And abortions were inordinately the subject of Dianetics. why so much?
My thesis: Hubbard was born an extreme preemie at a time when not as much was known or technology to prepare/repair. Given that scenario, there were a number of long term effects that don't show up usually until puberty or early adulthood. Hubbard manifested most of them at that exact time in his life. (sorry, I forgot the exact medical condition label)

Sudden eye sight deterioration. Difficulty or inabilty to learn mathematical equations or problem solving. Difficulty in studying and learning. Irritability. Stomach problems or ulcers. Difficulty in socializing or getting along with others. Difficulty in walking or joint pain. Various mental instabilities. Anyone who cares to read up on his actual history will find the above to be true and that it started at exactly around that time.

Add to that a liberal matriarchal upbringing that teeters on "spoiling the child" against a paternal military discipline with an added jab of "make it go right" and wa la! Hubbard had to have a scapegoat for why he was suffering and failing. He Was in fact suffering and failing in late puberty/early adulthood and his parents were dismayed. Must be abortion.! The one trait Hubbard retained from his forefathers that he learned at their knee was storytelling. If only he had left it to that.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Prior to, yes. After, I'm not sure to be honest on timeline. It seems when LRH died and Suzette was pregnant shortly afterward, the no babies no way came out.
I got out around 84 and "sent to other orgs" was norm for sure by then. I was relieved for the kids' sake.

Because of my position, I didn't spend much time on the base, got to do what I loved. Christ, I didn't even have to wear those horrid uniforms. If anyone had told me how "lucky" I was, i would have gone wtf? But I was.
When the Sheriff (DM) came to town, that all ended. I was grounded and shocked when I landed. There were massive escapes then. DM was never what shocked me. It was those that stayed.

I am still not understanding, forgive me.

The Flag order of 1982 was THE Flag order that said that Sea Org personnel could not have babies and remain in the Sea Org and that any couple where the wife became pregnant would be relocated.
 
I am still not understanding, forgive me.

The Flag order of 1982 was THE Flag order that said that Sea Org personnel could not have babies and remain in the Sea Org and that any couple where the wife became pregnant would be relocated.

"could not have babies and remain in the Sea Org" Later it was could not have babies. Period. I don't know the exact date of FO when it was "period" but there are others around here who do and have the dox.

You are correct, sorry for any confusion. It really doesn't matter to me. It was nightmare conditions before and nightmare conditions everafter.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
An excellent point Glibby!! Truly.

I find it hilarious that all the Hubbard believers seem to seriously believe that their idol was such a dunce and buffoon that two 20 year old thug wannabes and a girlfriend could bamboozle the tired old fart into doing anything they wanted.

They kept him sequestered on some property and he had no ability to use a phone or anything (apparently) and this "best friend of mankind" apparently could not drive a car, go on a bus or even just talk to someone.

And, on top of all that, Hubbard was, according to Marty, too stupid to even realize when he was being held incommunicado



Quite the contrary - I think it would have been very easy to keep LRH isolated and out of comm. All you need do is convince him that the Feds are after him, have issued arrest warrants etc etc and he needs to stay in hiding for his own safety.

If there is one thing LRH was terrified of it was the law.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Quite the contrary - I think it would have been very easy to keep LRH isolated and out of comm. All you need do is convince him that the Feds are after him, have issued arrest warrants etc etc and he needs to stay in hiding for his own safety.

If there is one thing LRH was terrified of it was the law.

There was no need to "convince LRH" of anything. After the court-ordered release of many of his extensive Fair-Game-Tech instructions and orders, in late '79, he didn't want to face the people he had harmed. Grand juries were convening, and "LRH" was likely going to end up in court being asked questions. Also, people who had been harmed by Hubbard's internal "rehabilitation" programs, and other internal abuse originating from Hubbard, were coming forward.

Unlike other cult leaders, such as Lyndon LaRouche or Sun Yung Moon, Hubbard chickened out. It's interesting that both LaRouche and Moon faced the music, went to court, even went to prison, and are now both out and carrying on, and successfully heading their groups. Both are about 90 and still active. Hubbard was the neurotic coward amongst the cult leaders.

He was a coward, who let his wife go to prison in his place, and when he could have taken responsibility for his misdeeds, chose to run away and hide instead - all this while still secretly working on his ego-glorifying monument-building projects, and concentrating on getting the money from the mental-healing-shrouded personality cult he had established.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Quite the contrary - I think it would have been very easy to keep LRH isolated and out of comm. All you need do is convince him that the Feds are after him, have issued arrest warrants etc etc and he needs to stay in hiding for his own safety.

If there is one thing LRH was terrified of it was the law.

Well my experience with paranoid types (admittedly not wonderfull extesnive thank god) has been that they wish to know EVERYTHING. Not that they wish to know NOTHING.

They not only check stuff out, they check out who is checking the stuff out.

hubbard's whole organization is proof of that.

So I disagree with that - at least as far as it being easy to keep them isolated.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
"could not have babies and remain in the Sea Org" Later it was could not have babies. Period. I don't know the exact date of FO when it was "period" but there are others around here who do and have the dox.

You are correct, sorry for any confusion. It really doesn't matter to me. It was nightmare conditions before and nightmare conditions everafter.

OK - bear with me on this.

What issue are you referring to? AFAIK if a Sea Org member becomes pregnant they are NOT offloaded from the Sea Org but are sent to a class V org.

Is that not still the case?
 
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