Marty: L. Ron Hubbard by Tom Martiniano

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
The entire comment thread is worth a look. Yes, it has a number of KSW, "True Believer" comments consistent with Tom Martiniano's views expressed below. I am not going to cross-post those here -- you can find them yourselves. (And, yes, those too are well worth reading). I will, however, as a counter-point, cross-post beneath the article a couple of dissenting comments I think are very interesting.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/
L. Ron Hubbard by Tom Martiniano Posted on January 22, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 47 Comments

Blogger note: Op Ed means ‘opposite of the editorial page’, where views are published whether they align with or collide with the editorial positions of a publication.
While it doesn’t technically mean the opinions stated are opposite of that of the publication in question, the page is often filled with such opposing views. The essay below submitted by Tom Martiniano clearly is challenging the views I have been expressing on this blog for 4 years and in my book What Is Wrong With Scientology? and probably is best characterized as an Op Ed. I happen to know it represents the views of at least a handful of others who are not so bold as Tom to express their positions despite my continuing invitations that they do so. It is my hope that some of those folk muster the courage to pipe up here. Tom and I have something in common – beyond Scientology – that makes me appreciate him and his views. We have both been on the wrong end of a gun on more than one occasion and lived to express our views. Nonetheless, I will likely soon post clarifying precisely where I part company with his viewpoints (attempting to succinctly sum up what I have been attempting to do here for 4 years). In the meantime, I would love to hear your views.

L Ron Hubbard

For four years now I have been an “Independent Scientologist”, a title borne of the blog “Moving up a Little Higher”, owned and penned almost every day by Marty Rathbun.

We’ve had a lot of talk about Scientology, L Ron Hubbard, seen peoples viewpoints on what happened to Scientology, who’s to blame and so forth. I have also watched as people sit in judgment of L Ron Hubbard, second guess him and his actions, criticize the man and his products.

The name L Ron Hubbard has taken tremendous bashings over the last several years, especially recently and it is mainly and solely due to the actions of David Miscaviage and others like him who push LRH and Scientology over the abyss with their irresponsible and unpardonable actions with the body of technology that was entrusted to them to care for “Attacks from governments or monopolies occur only when there are “no results” or “bad results” KSW #1.

I want to say a few things about the man, the author, the Science Fiction Writer, the founder of the most controversial Church ever or whatever anyone wants to call him. I am not going to be open minded and say “well, he has a viewpoint and he is right in some of the things he says”. I think LRH deserves a standing ovation for all of his accomplishments in this lifetime.

L Ron Hubbard is the best friend that a person could ever want. There have been hundreds of philosophers over the millennia who have introduced technology and doctrines for living and they all have been helpful to one degree or another. But LRH has developed technology throughout the space of thirty short years that covers every aspect of life. Some say that LRH is not the only technology that there is, nor is his philosophy there only one that works and that following his technology or values only is being blind or being robotic. That’s fair and in theory it is a solid viewpoint, but in practice it is fatal.

LRH even said in one of the PDC tapes that he doubts that there is any original thought in this universe. He’d be the first one to tell you that most of what he developed is from research into the world at large where he learned such things as the basic purpose of mankind’s existence is the urge to survive and from there he developed the entire body of the triumphant Dianetics, the world’s first successful foray into the real structure of the mind. Successful technology has been lying around the planet for eons, all developed by aboriginal tribal witchdoctors, psychologists, clans or civilizations, waiting for someone to come along and codify it and put it to good use. LRH found all of this knowledge and brought forth only the technology that was time tested and proven to be a high-rate-of-success application which made people better. LRH was like a kid in a candy store finding and testing workable technology. He would travel to far ends of the earth, find technology, research it for workability and in some cases adjust it so that it would work in most cases and then make it easy to us to use. He even developed technology for us to be able to duplicate written material. How’s that for a first-ever? This is a lot of work for one man.

When you apply something that is so utterly simple and so remarkably effective as the “Contact Assist”, or “Touch Assist” or even the powerful “Locational Assist” realize a lot of time and development went into it and L Ron Hubbard worked a lot of late nights in order to bring this technology to you in an easily understandable form to make your life that much better. And just as an aside here, we used the locational assist in New Orleans and Mississippi after hurricane Katrina on people who never heard of L Ron Hubbard and had people tell us that it saved their lives. We had thousands of such wins from folks in the Gulf area from the lowly locational assist. It worked like magic.

You see, LRH cared about you. He cared about all of us much more than we actually understood. He didn’t invent Study Tech to make money. He made it so we could read and duplicate. That’s love.

Is his tech and philosophy the only tech out there? No, not by any means. Is the way it is codified and presented to lay men the only usable tech out there? Yes. LRH introduced us to “The Wall of Fire” and then taped the route through it for all of us to see. All we had to do was walk the taped line.

But this is way too simple and a lot of people have to add their own viewpoints to the chalked path and wreck the path. LRH Says in HCOPL 14 February 1965 SAFEGUARDING TECHNOLOGY

“It has taken me a third of a century in this lifetime to tape this route out.


“It has been proven that efforts by man to find different routes came to nothing. It is also a clear fact that that the route called Scientology does lead out of the labyrinth. Therefore it is a workable system, a route that can be travelled.”


“Scientology is a workable system. It has the route taped. The search is done. Now the route only needs to be walked.”


Independent Scientologists are Scientologists that are independent from the Church of Scientology. The Church is errant and has been turning good, workable Scientology technology into unworkable technology to free people and turned it into workable technology to entrap.

There have been a lot of recent books, writings and talk about L Ron Hubbard and the end result of all of this talk and writings, rantings and foam of the mouth is an attempt to make LRH less of a successful philosopher. Most Scientologists are taking the bashing right alongside of LRH and feel the pain.

Realize that ANY attempt to write against L Ron Hubbard is an attempt to destroy that which frees mankind from their traps.

Is Scientology the only route out? Yes. It is the only applied philosophy that has the OT Sections (which were removed from the bridge by David Miscaviage).

Should someone follow L Ron Hubbard blindly? I would say so because to me it would be better than stumbling around blindly for the rest of your existence. LRH is the smartest person I have ever met. He is also the most caring person I have ever met. He cares about us more than any other person on this planet, even more than Tom Cruise does (joke). The tech volumes, the miles and miles of taped recordings, the green volumes were written by LRH for YOU to use.

Yes, you can read the Tao or read Buddha and so forth, but you would have to sort a lot of wheat from a lot of chaff to get to Nirvana. LRH already sifted and worked it all out for us to use.

This posting is written for Scientologists, those who sat down and did TR-0 and had their lives changed for the absolute better, or those who experienced going exterior for the first time, or those who went whole-track on a touch assist and the other hundreds of ways one could have a major stable win applying the fantastic tech by LRH.

Get back on the taped route and find your way out of this mess. Find a good Indy auditor and go up the bridge. LRH said to build orgs. Then by God build orgs. LRH said to manage orgs, then we manage and we fix management and what went wrong with it the first time. Do it the way LRH says to do it and it will be right. Just because it went wrong the first time was not LRH’s fault. It is right out of KSW #1 “What Did You Really Do?” We screwed it up. So we set it right, not cancel it because we screwed it. It’s exactly the same thing as saying “Well, I tried process X and it didn’t work, so toss it out.” Come one, wake up. KSW was at the start of every course and checksheet you ever did and that is because LRH ordered it. He saw this coming.

So come on. Let’s get this show back on the road.

Tom Martiniano
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250524
mrinder | January 22, 2013 at 2:34 pm | Reply
Tom — of course, there is much to agree with here.

But like a number of other commenters, I disagree with the concept of “blind faith.”

It is a paradox of Scientology — a subject intended to increase one’s ability to think for himself that progress along the path of freedom of self (thought) goes hand in hand with an increasing conviction that one must take everything written or said by LRH not only without critical thought, but also with increasing literalness.

The RCS is the result of “blind faith.” You can find an LRH quote that justifies virtually any course of action. One has to be able to play the piano with a conceptual understanding of the subject and when one can do that, THAT is the guarantee of results. It by necessity cannot be accomplished with blind faith.

I believe it is a very dangerous path to walk where the only thing you can do it accept what is said and comply. That to me cannot define freedom.

As for the reputation of LRH, I have commented here often enough that I do not consider it is relevant to a discussion about the workability of the tech. BUT, that being said, it is relevant to how many people are even exposed to the tech because these days he has become so toxic, people view him as some sort of Jim Jones/Warren Jeffs/Jim Baker creep. And who is going to investigate the thoughts of someone like that? I believe the blame for this lies primarily with the church — as Margaret so correctly noted, LRH did turn over all his files to Garrison and Armstrong. But you also cannot ignore the fact that the situation should never have arisen in the first place. His efforts to cover up his 2D history and other things have backfired. He is made out to be a liar and with valid cause. My personal view — I don’t believe he would have unearthed Dianetics and Scientology had he NOT been aberrated. But lying/cover ups as Marty has so aptly pointed out, become your future, only the truth becomes your past. And we see that truth more clearly demonstrated with the life of L. Ron Hubbard than perhaps anything else. I do not believe that because he lied or covered up indiscretions in his past that he did the same thing with Scientology tech. But that is the unfortunate conclusion a lot of people made.

If in fact, as some posit, LRH was some sort of perfect being who never made a mistake or set a foot wrong — then why didnt he set this straight and write his OWN biography. He had plenty of time to do it? Why didnt he write up the “Final OT levels”, he also had plenty of time to do that? Why didnt he turn over his hat with a recorded message to all Scientologists about what he expected, who he left in charge, how things were to go?

Do my comments mean I think less of him, hell no. And I DID know him personally and work directly with him as a Messenger. Was he the smartest person I ever met. Without question.

But was he perfect. No. Also without question.

And with that said, I think it ill behooves anyone to follow ANYONE blindly. It is a losing path to assign cause to someone else. And that is what blind obedience is. Assignment of cause elsewhere.

I appreciate your “OpEd”, and as I said, much of it I agree with.

This sort of reasoned discussion is healthy.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250527
Meshell | January 22, 2013 at 2:40 pm | Reply
I want to add more to my earlier comment now that I don’t have to punch it all out via my phone.

I am not an LRH “hater” by far – I’m somewhere in the middle these days, as I said earlier I no longer think he’s a god. I was on staff in HCO at an org for 2 years then part of the finance network the balance of my 5 year contract.

I have had wins, most definitely, some of them life changing and I wouldn’t want to change the course of my life EXCEPT that none of those wins, knowledge nor tools were worth losing my child; not in the end. But to say I have hatred now or I have let losing Jeremy blind me to the good in the data would be incorrect. I honestly have not thrown the baby out with the bathwater……YET. I’m still applying what I learned in Scn, and that goes for looking back. “Look, don’t listen”, “obnosis” as well as being able to gather data and evaluate a lot of it, without bias applies to how I am going forward.

With that all said, I honestly have a very difficult time reconciling the hard questions and facts here. I keep reading the blogs hoping that one of the Independent Scientologists, LRH “worshipers” or even just those who say they fully support LRH and Scn but are against the corporate Scientology – will some day address the tough questions that are of the obvious in magnitude.

1. Why does it appear that LRH did not use the tech in his last 6 years? Various stories about how and why he was in “hiding”. The tech I learned was that you could handle ANYTHING with communication alone, ARC=U, confronting situations and handling and I could go on and on and on here, but instead he was in seclusion for the last 6 years and let the church be taken over by SPs. Really? After all those years of hard work? He was betrayed by those he trusted? I have heard so many versions of what happened and none of them add up to a man who was a shining example of what Scn can do and was likely (if it really exists) OT 10 or 11 or even higher.

2. Not only does it seem he did not apply the tech in his last years, the tech didn’t save his marriages nor his children. Two of his children dead, one still a prisoner of the cult and only one child out and potentially living a normal life. His third wife allowed to end up in prison and died alone in the end. This is not a shining example of the greatest technology on the planet and the most important thing for mankind.

3. If LRH created something that was worth putting in a vault of titanium, where are these super stellar human beings among man? Surely they were created before the Miscavige days. Where are the results of these stellar human’s on planet earth? Where are the contributions to mankind? They may be out there, I just don’t know about them.

4. Why did LRH lie? Why lie about his background? Why lie about his accomplishments? Why lie ever?? If Wright was lying in his New Yorker article, I believe he would have been sued by corporate scn and to my knowledge he isn’t being sued.

5. Why aren’t LRH’s actual death certificate and medical examiner reports ever discussed among the pro LRH’ers? This is extremely revealing and clearly shows that he did not “choose to drop the body and move on to further his research” – and some say he was researching upper levels of scn while in seclusion, yet he wrote a lot of his scifi books during that time. I have my opinion that he was not a casualty of upper level research, but simply died of human issues.

I’m not trying to be antagonistic with my comments and questions, in fact just the opposite. I want these tough questions honestly examined by the folks who claim LRH was next to god in his work and discoveries, to see what the opinions are. Most have just somewhat talked around these issues with “oh the tech speaks for itself” or other type things. There are a lot of tough and hard to confront questions that need truth. If I’m not mistaken, the truth will as-is the thing. I realize the truth has died with LRH, but when one looks at this whole thing without bias one has to also question the rest. How can we ignore these facts and believe everything else.

Without these things answered to where it reconciles the outpoints for me, how can I conclude that my life and family was torn apart by David Miscavige and not LRH’s Scientology????

LRH should have been a bright shining example of the workability of scientology and should have had the IRS situation, the insider SPs, the bad PR of Scientology all handled and in very good order along with the church’s in strong positions before he departed – instead of whatever he was doing in seclusion.
 

Andtheyalllived

Patron with Honors
God, that was painful. I read the comment thread, and it's the usual circle jerk. I got kind of excited at Meshell's well-reasoned and challenging comment, but was quickly reminded that their MO is to ignore that sort of thing.

And you know, it's odd to me that this happens over there - nobody responds to the most interesting thing in the comment section... In fact, it seems they'd be more likely to argue with a TFHatter. Reasonable argument or trepidation? Radio silence. They've probably agreed on their "nattering backchannels" that she's a plant from some entheta enemy.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for posting this, and for posting "Meshell's" follow-up comments, especially.

I agree with whoever this person is, and have not seen the name come up before. (Does anyone know who it is?) He/she has asked the same questions I asked many years ago when I first backed away from the church. These are the questions that make the "true believer" so uncomfortable.

I wonder if any of this discussion will open up anyone's eyes, over at Marty World?

This will be an interesting thread, THANKS for bringing it to ESMB!
 

Veda

Sponsor
The entire comment thread is worth a look. Yes, it has a number of KSW, "True Believer" comments consistent with Tom Martiniano's views expressed below. I am not going to cross-post those here -- you can find them yourselves. (And, yes, those too are well worth reading). I will, however, as a counter-point, cross-post beneath the article a couple of dissenting comments I think are very interesting.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250524
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250527

Marty changed the subject quickly, after the inescapable mention of Lawrence Wright's book. Now he's back to the same mix of carefully selected comments, including the occasional comment that makes us (and did me for awhile) go "Wow," and "Gee," and "that's surprising to see."

Somehow, Marty expects to hold onto enough people to have an audience for Marty's book #3 by doing this dance.

Marty's reaction to Lawrence Wright's book was disappointing. He hasn't progressed as far as I had thought. I think he may be over his head with his blog-game-playing.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Marty changed the subject quickly, after the inescapable mention of Lawrence Wright's book. Now he's back to the same mix of carefully selected comments, including the occasional comment that makes us (and did me for awhile) go "Wow," and "Gee," and "that's surprising to see."

Somehow, Marty expects to hold onto enough people to have an audience for Marty's book #3 by doing this dance.

Marty's reaction to Lawrence Wright's book was disappointing. He hasn't progressed as far as I had thought. I think he may be over his head with his blog-game-playing.

Agree, and I too am disappointed
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
I'm not really getting the concept of Hubbard being the most "intelligent" person he ever met, seemingly based on that person's ability to apply what Hubbard wrote, said or developed to make his life better? Either that, or he simply hasn't met many bright people.

I've met many brilliant people in my life -- people whom I consider to be more intelligent than Hubbard -- and a few were pretty close friends, but they didn't come up with ideas that changed my life. They were brilliant based on the volume of information they were able to store, and how quickly they could learn new things, and understand complex concepts. For example, being fluent in multiple foreign languages by the age of 25, having a strong grasp of world history, and remarkable talent in math or one or more of the sciences.

When I listen to Hubbard, he sounds like a babbling loon, and again, if he came up with a method or brilliant new approach to life in SURVIVE or erasing the reactive mind, I trust that by now, much smarter people than myself would have adopted it, or been eager to recognize its value, even if he is a loon.

Then there's this idea of a person becoming so superior and elite to the lowly wog, once they adopt this method, start thinking like Hubbard, and running his case, with the same delusion that they have all the answers to solve the world's problems and "clear the planet" and KSW? Come on, that's just fascism. I'm sorry, I do not see this superior ability in Marty Rathbun at all, or any of the FZ clams for that matter. Their videos make me cringe. They are like space cases when talking about Scientology and can't even say anything that sounds wise, let alone deeply insightful or intelligent.

With Marty, for one thing, it seems like he started reading books outside of Hubbard books only after he quit the cult. That's admirable, but a little late to start self-educating, reading to be well rounded, even with "the tech," if you want to lead the movement to "clear the planet" anyway.
 
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Andtheyalllived

Patron with Honors
Marty changed the subject quickly, after the inescapable mention of Lawrence Wright's book. Now he's back to the same mix of carefully selected comments, including the occasional comment that makes us (and did me for awhile) go "Wow," and "Gee," and "that's surprising to see."

That's the painful. You know what I'd love to see here? A Censored By Marty thread like Caliwog has. That was hugely informative there, even though it was dated by the time I read it Is there one already and I have just missed it?
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
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1024px-Pieter_Bruegel_the_Elder_-_The_Parable_of_the_Blind_Leading_the_Blind_-_WGA3511.jpg
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250585
Watchful Navigator | January 22, 2013 at 5:15 pm | Reply

Tom

I agree with the value of Scientology and LRH’s accomplishments in bringing out such a powerful, workable and life-saving technology.

There are many here who would say that the power of that technology justified the betrayals on his part, which I would summarize as knowingly and intentionally subordinating the original purposes and goals of restoring self-determinism to the individual, to his own purposes for a group (Sea Org) – in direct violation of the principles laid out in KSW#1: “It’s is the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing.”

And while I have come to agree that nothing positive is accomplished by bashing LRH, to do the opposite and whitewash the crimes, will equally lead nowhere.

Very few people have the free theta to embrace the breadth of the contradictions. So as LRH wrote in 1960 on “When Help Becomes Betrayal” – most people quit or go rabid ‘anti-.’ Not me.

But HONESTY AND CASE GAIN applies to ALL dynamics and it applies to LRH and we had better apply it in our group or we will delude ourselves so thoroughly that we will never attain to the ideal laid out in KSW#1:

“Thus each one of us can rise above the domination of the bank and then, as a group of freed beings, achieve freedom and reason. It is only the aberrated group, the mob, that is destructive.”

A whole lot of those uncomfortably “horrible,” “unconfrontable,” events laid out in the LRH biographies actually took place as written. Sure, the author’s attitudes were bad and they were slanted against the tech strongly implying that it could not possibly work since so many other elements surrounding it were false. But in these are many accounts – some corroborated now with video testimony – that reveal alarming outpoints. Not just “character flaws” but alarming crimes.

The 5-yr-old child in the chain locker for at least 2 days (5 days, depending on whose account) is one example. The overboarding of people from the Apollo who were physically unfit and injured is another.

LRH trained us all that outpoints of magnitude, trace back to crimes of magnitude. And there happens to be a number of old-timer accounts available today revealing some of those crimes – besides those in the books – for those who dare go down that rabbit hole.

The one that stands out for me, due to your assertion that the Study Tech was a “gift” from LRH to us, is that at least 2 old-timers present (and no one has come forward to dispute it) recall the presentation of the study tech by Chuck and Eva Berner at a dinner -before- LRH gave the study lecture introducing this technology, presenting it as his own discovery.

Certainly, Chuck and Eva must have utilized earlier discoveries, like the Dianetics Study axioms, to arrive at the work they piloted themselves for many years, but this event of stealing their work occurred 6 months before LRH asserted in KSW#1 that “only a handful of suggestions (less than twenty) had long run value and -none- were major or basic…”

And if these testimonials can only be found on ESMB or Arnie Lerma’s site, it is because few of us will to hear any part of it and most won’t hear a word of it. NO ONE has opened up a “truth commission” or yet achieved a balanced forum. As I pointed out, very few exist who can tolerate the contradictions and still appreciate the value of LRH’s amazing discoveries.

But even if you care more about “the tech” than you do “the truth” (and I’m with you only if you agree that both are important) then we still have our hands full. I did not see Marty say that the new anti-Scn book was full of errors on LRH (he pointed out those errors he knew personally of) but only that Wright lazily “rehashed the same old stuff.”

That “same old stuff” is disturbing because it’s not going away. Ask any major PR terminal in or out of the church, why. It’s because a successful libel or slander suit to stop these books can only be based on irresponsible lies on the part of the author. There have been very few of these suits, to my knowledge, on the part of the church that have gone very far, and none have succeeded in removing these books permanently (corrections have been made, as far as I understand). I would otherwise be saying (and used to say, as org DSA) “government conspiracy!” But I have seen too many testimonial videos as equally damning to LRH, as the Truth Rundown was to DM.

So while it is admirable to defend the tech and the good accomplishments of LRH, as I intend to continue to do, it is fundamentally dishonest to ignore the trail of outpoints and where it leads.

Because as I see it, a full recovery of the subject and the optimization of it to even broader workability, such that it actually becomes “indispensable” to mankind (as it should be), requires a high enough level of confront and honesty that the blind spots to the flaws in the tech get removed, along with the crippling state of denial that leaves the 3rd dynamic engram in place.

As I see it, Marty is helping greatly with this process of understanding and appreciating the contradictions we need to work through (though I don’t expect he would agree with a lot of what I have stated here).

Successful running of group engrams (January 1951) calls for members state their truths – their time, place, form and event of what they observed. Otherwise, the arbitraries and frustrations stay in place and this perpetuates a lot of the infighting we see.

No, we may never see a fully accurate accounting of what really happened to LRH’s original and incredible dreams and visions for Scientology (I pray that Marty does his best, since he has our attention now). But in my view, we will only really recover the potential of LRH’s truly planet-changing visions in any way, shape or form if we pursue truth. Something that I believe the being that is LRH himself, would be advocating right now.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250602
mwesten | January 22, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Reply

Realize that ANY attempt to write against L Ron Hubbard is an attempt to destroy that which frees mankind from their traps.


That’s what radical Muslims say about Muhammad. Only they go one step further and kill people. This is what happens when philosophy becomes “religion”. The absolutes kick in and relatively sane people become dangerously batshit. Remember Infinity Valued Logic? If true for you, may I politely request you learn to actually think with it.

“Is Scientology the only route out? Yes.”


The only route out? Of what? Where do you think Scientology takes you to? Total Freedom? Per Hubbard himself, such a state is unobtainable. If it is simply to higher states, then we are on the same page. That it is the only route to higher states is, by the same logic, bullshit.

Should someone follow L Ron Hubbard blindly? I would say so because to me it would be better than stumbling around blindly for the rest of your existence.


It doesn’t surprise me that Hubbard considered himself a failure* with this kind of talk. If I had spent the majority of my life attempting to lift the average joe to higher levels of awareness and empowerment, only to look back at the end to see I’d created a blind, unthinking, faith-based monster, chasing me to the end like a little puppy dog, I too would feel like somewhat disheartened.

* ref: interview with Steve “Sarge” Pfauth, from “Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief” by Lawrence Wright.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250573
Oblio | January 22, 2013 at 4:45 pm | Reply

Is this planet a better place because LRH was here? I’d have to say that the jury is still out. IMHO, he created as much harm as he did good and where are all those amazing OT’s that his technology was supposed to produce? We could sure use some of them right now. I especially resent his policy on disconnecting which was a key part of the us versus them mentality. 20 years and a quarter of a million dollars later, I am not better because of LRH. If anything, I’m worse off because of him. The one thing that I reacted most strongly to in this post was the statement “Is Scientology the only route out? Yes.” I don’t believe that to be true and no one can prove otherwise. I always considered KSW to be one of the biggest problems with Scientology because it asked you to agree that anything LRH said was true, even before you studied it. When I got into Scientology, I thought I would be studing data and deciding for myself what was true or not. The only way to get through a Scientology course is to agree 100% with whatever LRH says is true.

S. W. | January 22, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Reply

Poppycock, Oblio. I don’t believe for a moment that you have ever read anything LRH wrote. Not possible if you actually believe that “The only way to get through a Scientology course is to agree 100% with whatever LRH says is true”. This is utter nonsense.
 

Gib

Crusader
The entire comment thread is worth a look. Yes, it has a number of KSW, "True Believer" comments consistent with Tom Martiniano's views expressed below. I am not going to cross-post those here -- you can find them yourselves. (And, yes, those too are well worth reading). I will, however, as a counter-point, cross-post beneath the article a couple of dissenting comments I think are very interesting.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250524
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250527

Tom M says regarding LRH -

" He would travel to far ends of the earth, find technology, research it for workability and in some cases adjust it so that it would work in most cases and then make it easy to us to use. He even developed technology for us to be able to duplicate written material. How’s that for a first-ever? This is a lot of work for one man."


What I don't understand is when somebody finally opens their eyes and starts researching the internet for stories of people who left the church as found on Marty's place, why they don't dig deeper into sites like here ESMB, OCMB, Jeff Hawkins book site, ex scientology kids, etc. That's what I did. Once you start digging for the actual truth, you have to go all the way. I mean, I had to determine, from my mindset of 6 months ago, who were squirels, who were SP's, etc. so I had no choice but to dig deeper.

I mean once you take off the blinders that are self imposed by the Policy Letters of LRH, if they are somewhat off, I'd think one would now due a proper due diligence.

Everything Tom writes as quoted above is incomplete, as the actual true data is found here on ESMB. And anybody that has been in scientology for a number of years can get the flavor of the postings here to determine what is true or not. People not having been in the cult write a little differently from one that has been in. That's my take. :confused2:
 

Veda

Sponsor
My reaction reading this was "hee hee hee". :biggrin: Yeah, that sound is the cracking of some mighty big bubbles.

The bubbles would be cracking anyway. :)

Marty&Mike are doing their best to see to it that the "damage" is minimal. All comments are viewed first then allowed or disallowed. It's difficult to see the patterns because the not allowed posts are never seen, except for a few that are saved by the commenter and then posted elsewhere.

M&M are still using decades old CofS PR lines. They are doing so in the environment of the Internet where a large amount of information, made available over many years by some courageous people - most of whom they despise - is easily available.

They are still doing PR damage control which includes some reluctant - unavoidable - truth telling; they are not practicing truth-telling for truth-telling's sake.

And, IMO, that's worth, occasionally, noting.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
LRH has only helped people. I really don’t care if LRH was a whore in his early years, or a crimminal. All I know is that the tech of his that I use works on myself and others I apply it to, My happiest times were when I was auditing Dianetics and my pc was in a fetal position on the floor in screaming agony and I said “I’ll repeat the auditing command…” And he got through it and lost that inability after that session. Happy times.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/l-ron-hubbard-by-tom-martiniano/#comment-250622


My bold/italics

That sentence!!!!! I nearly did myself an injury.
:dieslaughing::dieslaughing::dieslaughing:

I'm picturing the the poor pc passing a kidney stone, giving birth, having a heart attack...
:dieslaughing::dieslaughing::dieslaughing:


Yeah, I did understand what he was actually trying to say.


...but man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd—
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep;

Measure For Measure Act 2, scene 2
 
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