Marty: Placido Domingo Jr. vs. COS Facebook Police

Terril park

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His brilliant philosophy was all plagiarized from other true philosophers...

This is how advancements in knowledge works.

This is how civilisation advances. This is how philosophy
and science advances.

To paraphraze a quote from Igor Stravinsky[ think Micky Mouse and fantasia, or The " Rite of Spring"] :-

"Lesser composers imitate, greater ones steal wholesale."
 

Terril park

Sponsor
[snip]
Or maybe there will be a rainstorm of biblical proportions and the fire and brimstone is washed away, never to return and the scorched earth is reseeded with wildflowers for the bunnies and unicorns to gambol amongst.

Er, what are we talking about now? :confused2:

Axiom142

As usual very pertinent comments.

Looks like it will be a rainstorm of biblical proportions from
the media. As an opening act at least halfway through.

The whole opera is yet to unfold.:)
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Funny that no one recognises Hubbard's "genius" except Scientologists who kid themselves they can see something that no one else does.

Hubbard's legacy is he was a fraud and ruined a lot of people's lives.

Oh! One of my less precise posts and have I paid the price!
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Was he? In your opinion what is his most "brilliant" discovery?

While you're at it, could you point out one Clear and one OT please. I mean a Clear & OT who fit the bill as to what was promised as per the grade chart & DMSMH.

Just one will do.

The concept of the ser fac and listing and nulling would be up there IMO.

Clear and OT? My presuption you don't believe in iether concept.

Personally I like Mayo's concept of " clearer".

However I have an answer:-

The creator or co-creators of this universe.
 
His discoveries that I like? Try axioms, factors, his (or the combined effort of all in SH in the '60's) discovery of RI's, GPMs to name a few.

I had an experience after getting (quickie) power where I saw some RI's, one in particular and didn't have a clue what it was till much later when I was studying about R-6 further up the bridge. It was a black ball about the size of a large bowling ball with pictures stuck to it.

So, for me they are real, but, hey, I am but a poor dormouse your honor, and my tale is a sad and long one.

Mimsey
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
However I have an answer:-

The creator or co-creators of this universe.

So what you are actually saying is that you don't know ONE Clear or OT produced by Scientology that fits the descriptions given on the Grade chart and DMSMH.

Not one.

I would expect that kind of admittance or realisation to ring alarm bells in most people's heads. However, I don't expect that to happen with you Terril.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
:drama::drama::drama:
So what you are actually saying is that you don't know ONE Clear or OT produced by Scientology that fits the descriptions given on the Grade chart and DMSMH.

Not one.

I would expect that kind of admittance or realisation to ring alarm bells in most people's heads. However, I don't expect that to happen with you Terril.
 
... I would expect that kind of admittance or realisation to ring alarm bells in most people's heads. However, I don't expect that to happen with you Terril.

In complete fairness, Em, alarm bells would only be significant if a person had accepted the hyperbolic claims at face value at some prior time. If the claims were always discounted as hyperbolic then a subsequent 'proof of the hype' is not an especially disquieting discovery.

Many did accept the claims about dianetics & scientology prima facie, but quite a few didn't. These latter yet still chose to pursue these subjects for the benefits they do/B] produce, although with a generally more sceptical attitude towards things passed down from 'on high'.


Mark A. Baker
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
In complete fairness, Em, alarm bells would only be significant if a person had accepted the hyperbolic claims at face value at some prior time. If the claims were always discounted as hyperbolic then a subsequent 'proof of the hype' is not an especially disquieting discovery.

Many did accept the claims about dianetics & scientology prima facie, but quite a few didn't. These latter yet still chose to pursue these subjects for the benefits they do/B] produce, although with a generally more sceptical attitude towards things passed down from 'on high'.


Mark A. Baker


So are you saying that the gains & abilities promised on the Bridge are never actually produced?

Ever?

Do you know any OTs? I mean like the ones that Ron described. The knock the hat off at 40 paces, cause over Matter, Energy, Space & Time type of OT. The type of OT that people have paid hundreds & thousands of dollars to achieve. You know what I mean.

Or any Clears? Again like the ones Ron described. The perfect memory, never sick, never misemotional, perfect eyesight type of Clear.

I would suggest you don't know any Clears or OTs (as described above) because they have never been produced in Scientology. Ever.

So what product then is the FZ trying to achieve? Rather than "clear" do you go for "less smudgy than homo sap"? How is a FZ "clear" defined if you don't use the LRH definition (which we know and you've agreed is hyperbole)?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Bullshitting. It's no laughing matter.

In complete fairness, Em, alarm bells would only be significant if a person had accepted the hyperbolic claims at face value at some prior time. If the claims were always discounted as hyperbolic then a subsequent 'proof of the hype' is not an especially disquieting discovery.

Many did accept the claims about dianetics & scientology prima facie, but quite a few didn't. These latter yet still chose to pursue these subjects for the benefits they do/B] produce, although with a generally more sceptical attitude towards things passed down from 'on high'.


Mark A. Baker


Ah, Mark A. Baker is once again taking us on a tour of the land of bullshit.

Should we put on our hip boots?
 
So are you saying that the gains & abilities promised on the Bridge are never actually produced?

Ever?

Do you know any OTs? I mean like the ones that Ron described. The knock the hat off at 40 paces, cause over Matter, Energy, Space & Time type of OT. The type of OT that people have paid hundreds & thousands of dollars to achieve. You know what I mean.

Or any Clears? Again like the ones Ron described. The perfect memory, never sick, never misemotional, perfect eyesight type of Clear.

I would suggest you don't know any Clears or OTs (as described above) because they have never been produced in Scientology. Ever.

So what product then is the FZ trying to achieve? Rather than "clear" do you go for "less smudgy than homo sap"? How is a FZ "clear" defined if you don't use the LRH definition (which we know and you've agreed is hyperbole)?

I don't speak for the freezone, Em, nobody does, nor is there 'one viewpoint of clear' which is held by all freezoners. :no:

My own perspective is that the e/p's of the various levels are best viewed as subjective & relative to the state of mind of the pc, not as some sort of absolute state to be interpreted literally from the words of hubbard. FWIW, that is in keeping with the general dicta 'there are no absolutes', although it certainly does run contrary to the coercive practices & groupthink current throughout the cult.

I don't worry about 'clear' as a definition. I'm most concerned that a pc considers for himself that he is gaining in insight and is generally happy with his auditing. If so, then things are fine. :thumbsup: If not, then there is clearly a problem with the auditing which needs to be addressed. :omg:

To the degree that the ideal of clear as a state of being may be relevant at all, I consider David Mayo's piece on 'The State of Clear' to be a far more sensible guide than the excessive claims routinely made by hubbard over the years.

http://freezone-tech.info/blog/2010/01/16/clear-by-david-mayo-usa/

I'm also a 'believer' that grades & objective processes can be run at later times on the same pc to a good result. Things change and pcs may run something quite differently, say 5 or 10 years down the line, than they may have when they were first run on a process.This would of course reflect a pc's own willingness to readdress the earlier material in a session setting. But it can be like re-reading a good book quite sometime after one's initial exposure and seeing things in it that were 'missed' before.

What comes up in the course of auditing very much reflects the state of mind of a pc. That changes over time, both from auditing, as well as from other factors of life & learning.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
Prominently advertised "Senior Policy": "We always deliver what we promise."

The most frequently used saying in Scientology is "Scientology works!" The term "technology" implies workability, ie. results.

"We always deliver what we promise." "Scientology works!"

"Do your Bridge outside the C of S."

"The Bridge to Total Freedom."

"The Classification Gradation and Awareness Chart."

"End result." "Ability gained."


Excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo article, and a link to the complete article: http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

Clear

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point...

"[Clear] is not an attainable state (at least given our present level of technology)."
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Personally I like Mayo's concept of " clearer".

-snip-

You and your partner, Baker, ignored that article until it was brought up on ESMB, and brought up enough times that it could not be ignored. Then, and only then, did you "like" it.

It became just another "acceptable truth" with which you could play with the heads of those you regard as "failed Scientologists," and occasional possible Scientology Zoner "raw meat," here on ESMB.

Yet, you both promote the Scientology Grade Chart, Clear, the Clearing Course, Dianetic Clear, the OT levels, and OT.

You, yourself, claim to be a "natural Clear," which you decided you were after your spiritual leader, L. Ron Hubbard, made a brief announcement about it. (It was later revealed that Hubbard said that there were only four such people.)

I witnessed the Dianetic Clear/past life Clear/ Natural Clear fiasco that occurred starting around 1978, and that was when I began to recognize the hypnotic power that Hubbard had over most Scientologists.

That's when I started slowly backing away.

And yet here you are, still describing yourself as a "Natural Clear," and at the same time saying that you "like" an article that exposes the fraud of "Clear" (as a noun).

Frankly, you sir are a fraud.

And I think your influence is harmful, especially to those newly out of Scientology.
 
In complete fairness, Em, alarm bells would only be significant if a person had accepted the hyperbolic claims at face value at some prior time. If the claims were always discounted as hyperbolic then a subsequent 'proof of the hype' is not an especially disquieting discovery.

Many did accept the claims about dianetics & scientology prima facie, but quite a few didn't. These latter yet still chose to pursue these subjects for the benefits they do/B] produce, although with a generally more sceptical attitude towards things passed down from 'on high'.


Mark A. Baker


Why does someone as clever as you have to defend some other genius? That's the bit I don't get. Something real strange in that.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
You and your partner, Baker, ignored that article until it was brought up on ESMB, and brought up enough times that it could not be ignored. Then, and only then, did you "like" it.

It became just another "acceptable truth" with which you could play with the heads of those you regard as "failed Scientologists," and occasional possible Scientology Zoner "raw meat," here on ESMB.

Yet, you both promote the Scientology Grade Chart, Clear, the Clearing Course, Dianetic Clear, the OT levels, and OT.

You, yourself, claim to be a "natural Clear," which you decided you were after your spiritual leader, L. Ron Hubbard, made a brief announcement about it. (It was later revealed that Hubbard said that there were only four such people.)

I witnessed the Dianetic Clear/past life Clear/ Natural Clear fiasco that occurred starting around 1978, and that was when I began to recognize the hypnotic power that Hubbard had over most Scientologists.

That's when I started slowly backing away.

And yet here you are, still describing yourself as a "Natural Clear," and at the same time saying that you "like" an article that exposes the fraud of "Clear" (as a noun).

Frankly, you sir are a fraud.

And I think your influence is harmful, especially to those newly out of Scientology.


OPEN LETTER TO TERRIL PARK



Dear Terril:

Please just ignore what Veda has written here.

There are plenty of us out here who still are excited about the upper Bridge that is available in the FreeZone.

Can you kindly post information about the pricing and scheduling to book passage on one of those trips Ron took to Heaven and Venus?

Also, if you happen to know where I can get a train schedule for Venus, that would be helpful.

ML

HH​
 

Veda

Sponsor
A few points to clarify:

I've audited people to "Clear" - once with a discontinued process from the 1950s - so, I recognize that a person can experience a change, and I recognize that, in an environment where "Clear" (and the word "Clear") is accepted, and is accepted as a desirable state, that someone might decide, "I'm Clear," or "I think I'm Clear," etc. If that occurs, fine.

However, there is a huge amount of confusion for many on the topic of this thing called "Clear." The person is encouraged to go into agreement with the idea that there is a "state of Clear," and that it's important, even vital. Then, because this word has been used for PR and marketing purposes, or has been used by those who are dupes of someone (Hubbard, or some other Scientology con man) who uses it for PR and marketing purposes, confusion usually eventually results.

The 1991 article by David Mayo has helped a lot of people. It has helped bring considerable relief to many caught up in a confusion about something that they've been told is vital to their survival and well being.

If someone honestly believes that Clear (as a state) exists. That's fine. But to say one believes that, and also to say, no, I don't believe that (double talk/weasel wording), and to play manipulative games with people recovering from Scientology, is, IMO, reprehensible.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
You and your partner, Baker, ignored that article until it was brought up on ESMB, and brought up enough times that it could not be ignored. Then, and only then, did you "like" it.

Thank you for explaining my mental processes to me.

Its really useful!

Also thanks also for the excellent case evaluation which
I shall incorporate in my next session.

However sometime, despite your insight and perspicacity
you get it a little bit wrong.

I in fact read this article by Mayo around a decade ago.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
OPEN LETTER TO TERRIL PARK



Dear Terril:

Please just ignore what Veda has written here.

There are plenty of us out here who still are excited about the upper Bridge that is available in the FreeZone.

Can you kindly post information about the pricing and scheduling to book passage on one of those trips Ron took to Heaven and Venus?

Also, if you happen to know where I can get a train schedule for Venus, that would be helpful.

ML

HH​


Sales VP for Interplanetary Excursions.

Dear Hoaxie,

British Rail is the liasson office for booking trains on Venus. Those of us brits know that British Rail has serious difficulties in maintaining train schedules when the wrong type of leaves get on that track in audtumn. They also have problems with the wrong type of snow. Fortunately the climate on venus makes such problems
impossible.

Re Heaven, I've heard that some lovely ladies in Las Vegas are highly recommended in that area. We are currently looking at the possibility of a charter package to both Heaven and the more interesting areas of natural beauty on Venus.

As always we constantly look for ways to improve our service for
our valued customers.

Thank you for your enquiry.

ML
Terril Park
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

I in fact read this article by Mayo around a decade ago.

I said nothing about when you read it but, now, that you bought it up:

It was published in 1991. You read it in 2001. You (at least) said you "like" it in 2011, so, at that rate, you should comprehend it by 2021.

It's nice to hear that you "like" the "concept of Clearer." How do you feel about the concept of lying, and the concept of being PR and market motivated?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I said nothing about when you read it but, now, that you bought it up:

Ah! At last! Someone taking the Mantle[Valence] of Virginia McClaughrey. The Domanixtrix of choice.

I neglected to inform you when I read it. Sadly I'd neglected to make your aquaintence at that time. Mea Culpa. :(

It was published in 1991. You read it in 2001. You (at least) said you "like" it in 2011, so, at that rate, you should comprehend it by 2021.

Sadly not having the wisdom of your experience to guide me for
the last decade or so I had to struggle to comprehend it all on my lonesome.

Oh Vey, Oh Vey, where art thou O Guru when one is in need. :(

It's nice to hear that you "like" the "concept of Clearer." How do you feel about the concept of lying, and the concept of being PR and market motivated?

I'm eager to learn about such matters. :)

From the Master. :)))
 
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