What's new

Marty Ratburn accepts that rons journal 38 was a fake Ron?

No. He has not responded nor in the blog nor in private.

My initial post in his blog was very angry as I blew a fuse as he claims now to be shocked, SHOCKED about the PDC alteration when it was his job to prevent such things, before he can blame miscavige, or the nebulous generality he calls "corporate scientology" I remind him that even hitler never kill anybody with his own hands, but there were thugs willing to do it for him, in this case, the bucket stop at his own feet, either he let this alteration go, which is bad, or he himself did it, which is slighly worse, but not much.

I can take it if he were to say, "listen guys, here is this alteration of the PDC, it happened in my watch, sorry, my bad, I fucked it very bad, I suck a lot of cock"

I could understand that.

But I can not take his surprise and indignation at the horrible things the "corporate scientology" does these days.

While I was blowing steam I asked about Ken Ogger, I would like a clear and unequivocally statement by him, and SPECIALLY mike rinder saying "No. I had nothing to do or not any knowledge about the death of Ken Ogger".

And brought the tape RJ-38 as in an previous ocassion I had asked and my post was not even acknowledged.

For all the critics that make fun of hubbard, well, I think we deserve to have at least an actual hubbard material to make fun of, and there is not need to push a fake one, specially a that fake one was the used to give legitimity to the "new management" of which marty ratburn and mike rinder were very gladly part of until very recently.

I do note very much as a Nicaraguan (this is the way I was raised) that marty and Mike did leave the cult until the things were too much abusive toward THEMSELVES, they plugged along fine while the things were too much abusive toward others.

I give them a very wide benefit of doubth, but I notice that very much.

I like hubbard very much. Some people here dont like him much. And some dont like him at all.

What can we do? Happy chritsmas to all.

And Happy hollydays for those who insist in political correctedness.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
No. He has not responded nor in the blog nor in private.

My initial post in his blog was very angry as I blew a fuse as he claims now to be shocked, SHOCKED about the PDC alteration when it was his job to prevent such things, before he can blame miscavige, or the nebulous generality he calls "corporate scientology" I remind him that even hitler never kill anybody with his own hands, but there were thugs willing to do it for him, in this case, the bucket stop at his own feet, either he let this alteration go, which is bad, or he himself did it, which is slighly worse, but not much.

I can take it if he were to say, "listen guys, here is this alteration of the PDC, it happened in my watch, sorry, my bad, I fucked it very bad, I suck a lot of cock"

I could understand that.

But I can not take his surprise and indignation at the horrible things the "corporate scientology" does these days.

While I was blowing steam I asked about Ken Ogger, I would like a clear and unequivocally statement by him, and SPECIALLY mike rinder saying "No. I had nothing to do or not any knowledge about the death of Ken Ogger".

And brought the tape RJ-38 as in an previous ocassion I had asked and my post was not even acknowledged.

For all the critics that make fun of hubbard, well, I think we deserve to have at least an actual hubbard material to make fun of, and there is not need to push a fake one, specially a that fake one was the used to give legitimity to the "new management" of which marty ratburn and mike rinder were very gladly part of until very recently.

I do note very much as a Nicaraguan (this is the way I was raised) that marty and Mike did leave the cult until the things were too much abusive toward THEMSELVES, they plugged along fine while the things were too much abusive toward others.

I give them a very wide benefit of doubth, but I notice that very much.

I like hubbard very much. Some people here dont like him much. And some dont like him at all.

What can we do? Happy chritsmas to all.

And Happy hollydays for those who insist in political correctedness.

Your not going to get straight answers from him.

He doesn't think he has really done anything wrong, maybe upset a few people, but nothing else. He asked me with a sense of disbelief whether I thought he had suppressed thousands of Scientologists, before banning me from his blog.

He really doesn't like Bill Robertson and I am sensing there is some 'motivator' building up against the Rons Org group. Personally, I believe that his endeavours will end up going somewhere very unpleasant or he will end up causing some storm.

So, I have come to the conclusion that he is best left to it. We can produce the truth here that he won't allow to be posted over there and believe me, people who leave Scientologty will look all across the internet and believe what fits their own informed research.

He's having to shut people down fast to keep the wall up around him. I don't think he has even come close to acknowledging his involvement with harmful acts in the Church and I think he believes he did what is right because either A; LRH ordered it or B; He was on a power trip with Miscavige and co. or both. Mayo and other Scientologists were forced to run round a pole until completely exhausted and several people lost teeth. Individuals have implicated Marty in their brutal sec-checks at Flag. He removed evidence that could have been used to bring justice in a court of law for the suffering family of Lisa MacPherson. He physically beat people.

Yes, I do believe he suppressed thousands of Scientologists and non-Scientologists and much of the dissaproval of Scientology in the public today stems from this. If he wanted to undo LRH's bad reputation, the only way he could have done it (IMO) was to use Scientology to help as many people as possible and become the best person he could. What better promotion is there for any subject? Now he's out of the Church he is on a PR mission to destroy the reputation of Miscavige and the Church which in the eyes of the general public may not do any favours with the subject of Scientology. So, yes, in a way he is helping dismantle Scientology, but not recognising the thousands of people whose hopes and dreams are or have already gone up in smoke.

What really disturbs me is that I thought Scientology was pretty intense, brutal and insane at the bottom of the ladder. The lack of compassion, emotion, friendliness. This guy was at the top with Miscavige for over 20 years. To come out as cool as a cucumber and as tough guy as he has done? That, I find extremely disturbing. I recall watching an ex-SO crying over the abuse they endured and the wasted life in the SO.

Whether someone wants to practise Scientology or not after the Church is their business. But I recommend that we all seek to surround ourselves with kind and loving people that have used their philosophical beliefs and religious practise to enhance their way of thinking, not become the thinking.

One last thing/..... Rathbun said to me in response to a point I made 'You obviously haven't listened to.....' Does he not have a mind of his own where he can post individual responses to individual questions? Does he think that I base all my reasoning on LRH? He was using LRH to jutify why people end up in a bad state as a way of excusing himself of any misconduct over the last 20 plus years before returning to blaming Miscavige for everything.
 
This is a christmas carol from Nicaragua, from the 70s, in the time of the nicaraguan revolution, is a song for the children of the third world, is very spread in latinoamerica

It is CHRITSMAS IN LIBERTY from Carlos Mejia Godoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I7Ix1WsQN8

The lirics say;

When you unpack your presents, child of a luxurious vicinity,
think in all those childre that do not know what xmas is for.

Think in the shoesine child that this good nigth will pss in a hard and cold bank in the steps of the cathedral.

Happy chritsmas, happy critsmas, in justice and freedom
Happy chritsmas, a better world, without misery and opression

That toymachine gun that santa claus brougth to you this year
is the lovely aguinald that Uncle Sam send to you

Today we need more schools, more culture, more education,
Are more important 100 teachers , than a armored batallion

There must come soon that day, when the chritsmas be not only a privilege of the rich, but of al mankind

Let them come venancio, pedro and mincho, la maruca, lencho and pantaleon, go gonna sing the carol of our liberation.

Happy chritsmas, happy critsmas, in justice and freedom
Happy chritsmas, a better world, without misery and opression
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
So many nice Christmas posts on the board today. I was tempted to start a Christmas thread but decided to let the thither and yon approach stay.

It's such a lovely thing! I hope everyone is celebrating it in some way, even if it's as a secular holiday for some.

It's just so pretty. Someone was talking about midnight Mass on another thread and I about teared up.

Merry Merry Merry Christmas!
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Itrepido, if there is anything we can learn from this episode, it is about people's True Color's. We have found Marty's True Color's and we have found our own and they are completely out of sync.

I'd rather listen to Cyndi Lauper who knows the nature of the human spirit, her 'work' is not exposing her own crimes on a blog, but a continuous outflow of love towards others and speaking up for those who feel marginalised in society.

Here she is in Chile;

[video=youtube;5ltAoz80d4s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ltAoz80d4s&feature=related[/video]
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
snippity snippity


Whether someone wants to practise Scientology or not after the Church is their business. But I recommend that we all seek to surround ourselves with kind and loving people that have used their philosophical beliefs and religious practise to enhance their way of thinking, not become the thinking.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Challenge
 

Terril park

Sponsor
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Challenge

Well Vittorio espouses being surrounded by kind and loving people.

For two years I chauffered him on a hundred mile round trip to a course room.

Guess that fits.

Then he posts this on the thread " Vkladivostok Org". My detailed comment can
be viewed on that thread.

"Then why does he do it? All this promotion. AND have the gall to handle other people's upsets by sending information into an OSA website. He seems to be sitting on a major centre of communication and have his fingers firmly in the Freezone pie despite not being an Auditor, Sup or a half decent disseminator. Is Terril giving information to both sides I wonder? Is this an assumption? If Terril falls out with person A for example, whats to stop him from emailing the OSA website about them and how much information has he sent that we do not know about? He has NEVER, not once denied doing it. I'm quite concerned that this one individual over the past 10 years has been able to accumulate such an enormous amount of contact information from so many people and displayed such an open violation of confidentiality and betrayal by going to the Freezone Survivors.

Otherwise, I don't mind the RO guy's because they don't prevent anyone from leaving should they choose to do so and advocate that people have to use whatever it is that makes them better in life, not just Scientology. They also don't use these message boards as promotional grounds and I doubt very much that they advocate Terril doing so either. "
 
AND have the gall to handle other people's upsets by sending information into an OSA website.

If this is the case I would not worry too much, OSA these days is a bumbling pack of foot shuffling bums, the professionals, mike rinder et all, are gone, selling used cars, the daring days of putting LSD in your toothpaste are replaced by fat balding guys with funny hats with cameras attached in your front door.

Amateurs, the whole lot.

Feliz navidad terril!
 

Terril park

Sponsor
AND have the gall to handle other people's upsets by sending information into an OSA website.

If this is the case I would not worry too much, OSA these days is a bumbling pack of foot shuffling bums, the professionals, mike rinder et all, are gone, selling used cars, the daring days of putting LSD in your toothpaste are replaced by fat balding guys with funny hats with cameras attached in your front door.

Amateurs, the whole lot.

Feliz navidad terril!

Such is the insult!
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Well Vittorio espouses being surrounded by kind and loving people.

For two years I chauffered him on a hundred mile round trip to a course room.

Guess that fits.

Then he posts this on the thread " Vkladivostok Org". My detailed comment can
be viewed on that thread.

"Then why does he do it? All this promotion. AND have the gall to handle other people's upsets by sending information into an OSA website. He seems to be sitting on a major centre of communication and have his fingers firmly in the Freezone pie despite not being an Auditor, Sup or a half decent disseminator. Is Terril giving information to both sides I wonder? Is this an assumption? If Terril falls out with person A for example, whats to stop him from emailing the OSA website about them and how much information has he sent that we do not know about? He has NEVER, not once denied doing it. I'm quite concerned that this one individual over the past 10 years has been able to accumulate such an enormous amount of contact information from so many people and displayed such an open violation of confidentiality and betrayal by going to the Freezone Survivors.

Otherwise, I don't mind the RO guy's because they don't prevent anyone from leaving should they choose to do so and advocate that people have to use whatever it is that makes them better in life, not just Scientology. They also don't use these message boards as promotional grounds and I doubt very much that they advocate Terril doing so either. "

You never chauffered me anywhere for two years. Unfortunately you have an obsession for finding out who board members are and then outing them and you are trying that with me with your 'guessing game'.

This subject is about Marty Rathbun and how he cannot answer a simple question or any question that he doesn't like. As I have already pointed out to you Terril, the Don Larson video which was aired on British TV in 1987 he states the physical violence used on the San Francisco Org ED. He very clearly states that this happened with the new management change of which Rathbun was a part of. I have watched a video of Rathbun claiming the physical stuff started in the 90's (and no I don't have DOX) when clearly it was going on right from the beginning.

The word on the street is that Rathbun banned you from his blog.

He is going to be putting down Bill Robertson in his book that is coming out.

But of course, Terril, I don't expect you to take up ANY of these points that I make. You might roll out this chauffer business for the umpteenth time or ask for DOX, but you will not acknowledge one bit of wrongdoing by Rathbun.

LOOK AT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ACTUALLY ABOUT.

Maybe you could give us some insight in RJ-38? Or maybe you could comment on Marty's responses on his blog. Did you not read the George White comment when he 'wishes there had been Independent Auditors 20 years ago'. It's staggering that these people believe the Independent Scientology only really came around with Marty. His blog is a bully boy's playground.

What is it about Rathbun that you believe is so worth defending?
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
I recall it as appearing in late 1983. Around November or December.


I heard it befre I fled in July, '83.
It kinda solidified my opinion that LRH was no longer on Org lines, it was so obviously NOT LRH.


challenge
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
I heard it befre I fled in July, '83.
It kinda solidified my opinion that LRH was no longer on Org lines, it was so obviously NOT LRH.


challenge

You had the integrity to walk. Marty could clear up so much confusion. If Hubbard ordered the new management to take over, why would they have to falsify tapes like this? Once Mayo, Franks, Mary Sue, Robertson and others were out of the way, did this new management override Hubbard? Marty's communication is very evasive. He cannot hide his dislike of Robertson, Armstrong or Mayo but will rub shoulders with Mark Bunker and Ursula Caberta? I don't buy it. Too much was done under Rathbun's charge from the early 80's onward. He seems to dislike the guys who knew Hubbard personally.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
In this thread at his site I asked about rons journal 38 "today and tomorrow, the proof", which can be found at this link;

http://www.mediafire.com/?wfqmd20mxdy

In this messages martyrathbun09 | December 21, 2011 at 12:40 pm | Reply

RJ 38, opinion? You are as hallucinatory as Bill Robertson and David Miscavige. Merry Xmas.

Victor Sandino Ruiz | December 21, 2011 at 3:35 pm | Reply

Merry xmas to you marty, it just I am getting feed up with “look at miscavige! It was him! him! him! HIM!!!!

This is not Ron, and is really something it has to be adressed;

http://www.mediafire.com/?wfqmd20mxdy
martyrathbun09 | December 21, 2011 at 4:45 pm | Reply

No it doesn’t. You’ve missed the forest for the trees. The legacy is there. Take it or leave it.

Marty says; No it doesn’t. You’ve missed the forest for the trees. The legacy is there. Take it or leave it.

I asked to clarify his answer as it does not specify it he says "no, this guy is not LRH", or he says "no, it does not have to be adressed"

Either way, or he accepts that the only material supporting the takeover of the new management is a fake, or he says that that suject does not have to be adressed, which does not bode well for the idea of revealing the truth.

Will post his answer when he clarifies it.

Do you recall when 'RJ 38' was released? It was 1983, but what month was it?

The last account I have of Hubbard being witnessed as being up and around and chipper was May 1983. After that I have no info.

If we're digging this up again, didn't Marc Headley or John Peeler or Little Bear Victor or someone like that from Int write about this tape? And the voice talent they had that "did" Hubbard?

Paul

I have to agree with you whole heartedly in your statement "
The truth may be so weird that it would "besmirch L. Ron Hubbard's good name" to tell the truth, thus Marty's evasiveness "

Further, the Wrathbunny" is making a good living off the hubbard legacy conjob so why would he then change and give up the loot he's raking in.

Also remember the recently settled Danny Montalvo Case that Wrathbunny was ranting and raving how coporate Sceintology was going to be dealt a serious blow then all of a sudden on his blog he says that the casec was settled as the best thing for all.

Let's stop and look at this as Wrathbunny & Rinder from the start were involved in selecting and consulting the attorney to bring the lawsuit by informing them of the church tactics that would be employed in legal cases.

Both of them were key players in that arena as former high level See Org culties
so their consulting time and input had to be of monetary value to the attorney firm that took the case if one looks at legal costs and investigation with legal preps.

My question is did they make money doing this when the settlement occured that Marty was so supportive of on his blog.

My opinion is that it is logical that they would have been compensated for their "work" on the case as is the practice in these legal cases that have"consultants" working for them and also bird dogs who refer cases to them.

I think these consultants are called "ambulance chaser assistants"

I would not mind it so much if Mahty & Rinder came out and said" we did not make a dime on the case" and provided a signed,notarized sworn affidavit saying that.
I don't exepct to ever see that by the way!

The best example of the whole fuckin scene(hubbard's crap to Misscabige's turds) to me is the movie "Goodfellas' think of Miscavidge as the charachter played by DiNero who preffered to knock off all the participants in the heist rather than pay them their share. ( Miscavigde got rid of all those whom he had participate in his takeover with the RPF and other means so he became fearless leader with all the perks of the religious scam)

The only one that survived was the one played by Ray Liotta who became an informer under witness protection pgme. That's a close enough comparison for me.
As I see it they are all criminals~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mahty is another greedy money motivated fucking wannabee guru who "knows Best" who engaged in atrocities , violated human rights and the dignity of others wholesale as the top enforcer "BOY" for Misscadvige.

As for Rinder he is always on the lookout for loose change dropping from somewhere for his survival .

"...it has to be adressed" (sic)
"No it doesn't." (sick)

Terril do you have an opinion on any of the above? This thread is about RJ 38 and Marty's refusal to give straight answers regarding it. The quoted points are just a handful of those that have come up.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
You had the integrity to walk. Marty could clear up so much confusion. If Hubbard ordered the new management to take over, why would they have to falsify tapes like this? Once Mayo, Franks, Mary Sue, Robertson and others were out of the way, did this new management override Hubbard? Marty's communication is very evasive. He cannot hide his dislike of Robertson, Armstrong or Mayo but will rub shoulders with Mark Bunker and Ursula Caberta? I don't buy it. Too much was done under Rathbun's charge from the early 80's onward. He seems to dislike the guys who knew Hubbard personally.

No. He has not responded nor in the blog nor in private.

My initial post in his blog was very angry as I blew a fuse as he claims now to be shocked, SHOCKED about the PDC alteration when it was his job to prevent such things, before he can blame miscavige, or the nebulous generality he calls "corporate scientology" I remind him that even hitler never kill anybody with his own hands, but there were thugs willing to do it for him, in this case, the bucket stop at his own feet, either he let this alteration go, which is bad, or he himself did it, which is slighly worse, but not much.

I can take it if he were to say, "listen guys, here is this alteration of the PDC, it happened in my watch, sorry, my bad, I fucked it very bad, I suck a lot of cock"

I could understand that.

But I can not take his surprise and indignation at the horrible things the "corporate scientology" does these days.

While I was blowing steam I asked about Ken Ogger, I would like a clear and unequivocally statement by him, and SPECIALLY mike rinder saying "No. I had nothing to do or not any knowledge about the death of Ken Ogger".

And brought the tape RJ-38 as in an previous ocassion I had asked and my post was not even acknowledged.

For all the critics that make fun of hubbard, well, I think we deserve to have at least an actual hubbard material to make fun of, and there is not need to push a fake one, specially a that fake one was the used to give legitimity to the "new management" of which marty ratburn and mike rinder were very gladly part of until very recently.

I do note very much as a Nicaraguan (this is the way I was raised) that marty and Mike did leave the cult until the things were too much abusive toward THEMSELVES, they plugged along fine while the things were too much abusive toward others.

I give them a very wide benefit of doubth, but I notice that very much.

I like hubbard very much. Some people here dont like him much. And some dont like him at all.

What can we do? Happy chritsmas to all.

And Happy hollydays for those who insist in political correctedness.

AND have the gall to handle other people's upsets by sending information into an OSA website.

If this is the case I would not worry too much, OSA these days is a bumbling pack of foot shuffling bums, the professionals, mike rinder et all, are gone, selling used cars, the daring days of putting LSD in your toothpaste are replaced by fat balding guys with funny hats with cameras attached in your front door.

Amateurs, the whole lot.

Feliz navidad terril!

Terril here are some more great points that are worth looking at. I think Challenges post about her friend Frank is worth reading. Do you have any insight into RJ 38 and/or any other changes that happened whilst Marty was IG of the tech for RTC as well as the various abuses that happened.

A voice analysis document can be downloaded from an RO site. The analysis was done by a pro, but I'm not sure who ordered that.

http://www.ronsorg.com/images/voiceanalysis.pdf

I hope this resolves the matter in case you've got any doubt whether it is or is not Hubbard speaking.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Terril here are some more great points that are worth looking at. I think Challenges post about her friend Frank is worth reading. Do you have any insight into RJ 38 and/or any other changes that happened whilst Marty was IG of the tech for RTC as well as the various abuses that happened.

Well I never. Seems I'm your opinion leader now.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Well I never. Seems I'm your opinion leader now.

As I suspected. You have not one comment or opinion on any of the data expressed by many members of this board in this thread.

You are not taking up any comments that show Marty Rathbun in a negative light.
 
Yes! :thumbsup:

What does it matter if the "official Church" falsified and contrived phony versions of LRH tapes, lectures and/or policies? ...

It constitutes misrepresentation. Arguably its even worse: knowing & deliberate misrepresentation.

Whether Hubbard's original remarks were themselves lies, false statements, or knowing misrepresentations is a separate issue.

I could attribute the Dhammapada to LRH. That would have the advantage of attributing useful & truthful remarks to him, but it would be a false attibution and therefore a LIE. As a lie it adds to confusion about the subject and thereby decreases understanding.

Better to let Hubbard's original materials stand on their own, both those aspects which express useful truths as well as those which are clearly false, or indeed in many cases deliberate lies.

If the church felt a genuine need to amend his remarks they could have issued commentaries. That is an intellectually valid much healthier and more stimulating traditional approach to extending the understanding of seminal works on a subject. However, that would have been a direct challenge to the culture of infallibility that has been so deliberately & carefully constructed around lrh.


Mark A. Baker
 
Last edited:
Top