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Marty Rathbun: 1st to Expose DM's Psychotic Violence?

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I don't think so, Anderson.

The first time I ever heard of DM's psychotic violence against Scientologists was when Stacy Brooks described seeing him beat the crap out of the guy who invested money for the Church.

That was back before Marty had even committed his first felonious destruction of evidence in the Lisa McPherson case, while he was still being all slap-happy with DM and the other INT Base psychos.

So I wonder who gave Anderson Cooper the idea that Marty Rathbun was the first to expose DM's psychotic, violent behavior?
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
Alanzo & Carmel:

Rather than resort to innuendo and speculation, why don't you ask Anderson Cooper himself where he got that idea and why he wasn't aware of Stacey Brooks previous contribution ?

Was Stacey's report in any broad public media at the time, Alanzo ?

Perhaps SP Times ?

Where and when, please ?

I'm asking because I genuinely don't know and you omitted this information.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.
 

exsomessenger

Patron Meritorious
here here sneaks! let us operate on truth and facts. that is what makes us look smart not just making up stuff that sounds good......I'm not saying, I'm just saying :confused2:
 
In his defense....

Why does this board pick on Marty so much? (That was a rhetorical question).

I would say that Marty is the first to broadly expose DM's abuses to as wide an audience as possible.

Stacy may have talked about it, but she didn't disseminate the information very far, now did she? Did she get it on national TV? How many newspapers did she get the story into? Did she have a blog that gets millions of hits?

I am not saying this to denigrate Stacy (who did do something but seems to have retired), I am saying this to defend Marty.

- - - -

Yes, I'm a Marty fan. He's not perfect, but at least he's doing something.

So, to all of you who are doing something, well done!

And to those of who you are watching from the sideline -- get a little skin in the game, OK?!
 

greebly

Patron with Honors
I would say that Marty is the first to broadly expose DM's abuses to as wide an audience as possible.

Please check how he has done this other than 2 TV slots and the 1 piece in the SP times.

He is not the only one who has talked to the media for many years, banging the door waiting for them to wake up.


tbh I don't care how the Co$ is dismantled or bought to justice aslong as it is.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Why does this board pick on Marty so much? (That was a rhetorical question).

I would say that Marty is the first to broadly expose DM's abuses to as wide an audience as possible.

Stacy may have talked about it, but she didn't disseminate the information very far, now did she? Did she get it on national TV? How many newspapers did she get the story into? Did she have a blog that gets millions of hits?

I am not saying this to denigrate Stacy (who did do something but seems to have retired), I am saying this to defend Marty.

- - - -

Yes, I'm a Marty fan. He's not perfect, but at least he's doing something.

So, to all of you who are doing something, well done!

And to those of who you are watching from the sideline -- get a little skin in the game, OK?!

I think it's kind of a history thing.

When Bob and Stacy were front and center, blogs really didn't exist. Newspapers and the internet weren't really as connected as they are now. The whole "social media" thing wasn't there.

I, as well as others, had a lot of criticism of what they did, especially their "selling out".

But, in perspective, they were responsible for a lot of "setting the stage" for what occurred in the future.

I want to personally say to both of them "thank you" and "I'm sorry".

A little to little and a little to late, I know.
 

greebly

Patron with Honors
Noone cared about the internet in the 90s or even early 00s due to low broadband penetration and the mainstream media being as slow as elephants as usual.

Bob Minton rocked! simple
He put chunks of $$$s up and helped the few who were willing at the time.
I would love Stacy to come back like Jesse but they took alot of flak from Marty and others in the Co$ that it took alot out of them I am sure.

You know another thing?

I offered the ear of large bloggers before xmas none I asked wanted to do it sadly.

The offer is open again.....zzzzzz...waits.

The key here is that the media snowball does not stop and the public are not back to checking new dresses or earrings worn by random celebs next week.

Change happens when the media barrage is constant, so don't stop even if all goes well in Oz somehow.

Luckily the Panorama piece will be a good gap between this TV piece.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder were the guys who "handled" (Fair-gamed them out of existence) the Lisa McPherson Trust from their positions in the Church.

Then, 6 years later, they appear to come out of the Church and say the same things the LMT were saying about DM, and they continue to denigrate those people they earlier fair-gamed. They even co-opt their message and act as if it was original to them.

This isn't about who gets the "credit".

It's about THE WHOLE STORY of the causes for the psychotic behavior at the top of the Scientology Org board.

Marty and Mike are trying to hide the whole story, and continue to denigrate those they used to Fair Game for the Church.

THAT'S THE POINT.

There is something wrong with that. It appears to me to be an "operation".

But I can be proven wrong.

Marty and Mike can specifically and publicly acknowledge what they did to the individuals involved in the Lisa McPherson Trust and apologize for what they did to them while in the Church, and thank them for their incredible effort to get the truth about Scientology known.

That would prove me wrong.

So I am lifting my arm, pulling back my sleeve and looking at my watch. It's 10:07 pm on March 31, 2010.

I'll wait and see how long it takes them.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I don't think so, Anderson.

<...snip>
So I wonder who gave Anderson Cooper the idea that Marty Rathbun was the first to expose DM's psychotic, violent behavior?
Probably because he never saw this from Blown For Good back in 2007
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1935

Anderson had probably never heard of BFG, Little Bear Victor, Jeff Hawkins etc. until recently.

The story of Musical Chairs; Int Base Style, is a pivotal one.

BTW, Reactive Mime gets a pass for having one of the best Usernames on ESMB.
 

Lovinglife625

Patron with Honors
I don't think so, Anderson.

The first time I ever heard of DM's psychotic violence against Scientologists was when Stacy Brooks described seeing him beat the crap out of the guy who invested money for the Church.

That was back before Marty had even committed his first felonious destruction of evidence in the Lisa McPherson case, while he was still being all slap-happy with DM and the other INT Base psychos.

So I wonder who gave Anderson Cooper the idea that Marty Rathbun was the first to expose DM's psychotic, violent behavior?

Don't get me wrong as I am thrilled that Marty and some others have been telling the truth about Miscavige's violence since the spring/summer of 2009 with that first SP Times article.

But this was not nearly the first time it was done.

If you check you will find affidavits covering his violence such as Homer Shomer's in 1986 or so talking about his gang bang sec checks at ASI or Jesse Prince's affidavit of 17 March 1999 telling of Miscavige screaming in the face of and otherwise abusing a then sickly Mary Sue Hubbard to intimidate her into signing over LRH's fortune to organized scientology shortly after Hubbard died.

Or, one of my favorites here, watch Don Larson confess on the BBC in 1987 telling about Miscavige's violence:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6454589518364422755#

Even on a personal level I have told of Miscavige's violence many times on radio, in video, to press in Canada, Portland and Boston and otherwise in postings throughout 2006-2009 before the SP Times articles.

A few examples:

1) My affidavit of May 2008, see section 26 and sections around that:

http://evil.scientology.googlepages.com/crs.pdf

2) here is a link to a posting I made as "SME" on the public forum alt.religion.scientology in March 2007:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/2528865afb25843d?

Here is a bit from that posting:

"DM even spit on, beat and /or otherwise abused his own ASI people (see
Homer Shomer docs for an example) if he considered they were not
getting Hubbard enough money or losing money that could be Hubbard's.
Every time we put in a corporate structure, DM would violate it. He
ran a reign of terror from ASI. His alleged "non involvement" in
church management when he was in ASI and just "coordinating" and
"negotiating" with the church included such things as ordering who
would run RTC, who would run the key parts of CSI (WDC/CMO Int for
example) and then running those people himself and deciding who of
them got busted. This included things like him going to Int and
spitting on top church WDC/CMO Int executives, punching in the mouth
hard, slapping across the face hard and choking hard. And, again,
this was in the time period he says in court he was in ASI and not
involved in running the church".

3) Also from another posting of mine in March 2007:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/16f077c6107b94fd?

"Starting in late 81 with the advent of the new corporate structure
and DM securing complete control over the organizations, there have
been wholesale abuses of scientology staff, public and critics through
countless means. In 1982 alone, under DM, more people were horribly
abused, gang bang sec checked, declared, fair gamed and the like than
in the entire history of the GO!".

The point here is that a lot of people are getting out the word and some have for years. But thanks to Anonymous and others it is now going viral and many more can speak out. Just 4 years ago many press were terrified to write anything negative about them. I know as I worked with many.

Now the floodgates have opened and much, much more is to come.

Marty, Mike, Amy etc. got great coverage starting with that SP Times series last year and much more since then such as AC 360. This is terriffic!

But, again, disclosures of DM beating others go well back to before Marty even started to speak out. Why Anonymous itself was getting that word out every single month all over the world for well over a year before it came out in the SP Times.

I say "thank you" to everyone helping to get out the truth. Together we just may help end these abuses yet.

w/<3 Larry
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I don't think AC did any extensive research into the church for the formation of this show.

I have no idea what was the catalyst that caused them to format the show only on the abuse within the church and who is causing it and up until tonight i was disapointed with what was covered so far.

But not having done extensive research on the church may very well be a plus point.

In other words, AC has not been influenced by reading what's on the internet and may not have read any.

But he came to a coclusion tonight that was very logical and influenced only by what has unfolded in the show.

On questioning TD on why no one reported to the authorities or filed a complint over the three to four years these beatings took place and following TD's response that thay wanted to handle internaly.

AC said it didn't make sense that no one would report on Marty or Mike unless it was the leader of the church doing the beatings, in which case, it would make sense why the authorities weren't called and no complaints filed.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
No Marty was not the 1st to speak out, and no he is not the highest level defector from the cult. More on that later when I have time to collect the documents. It would be nice if Marty would tell the whole truth instead of manipulating and twisting things to fit his own personal agenda. There are a lot of XSO who are watching and know that Marty is leaving out a lot of facts. For instance; Marty knows the reason no one reported any of the abuse, but he is not telling because it would tarnish Hubbards reputation since Hubbard wrote the cult scripture that makes it a High Crime to involve the authorities.

There have been literally hundreds of lawsuits and thousands of people who have spoken out before Marty, nearly a thousand ex scientologists have used their own names per WWPs research, many more anonymous exes and critics have spoken out and there have been thousands of media exposes, including TV, radio, magazines and newspapers.


This is an excerpt about the FAIR class action suit by a group of ex-scientologists in the 80's from WBM at http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2006/12/21/whats-fair-is-fair/

There is a video documenting some of the FAIR meetings here: http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2006/12/21/whats-fair-is-fair/

What’s Fair is FAIR.
For many who are just starting to take a critical look at the world of Scientology, they might be surprised to discover that people have been speaking out about the fraud and abuse in the organization for decades. It hasn’t been easy for people to do so, especially in earlier days when less was known about the harsh, cruel tactics used by Scientology to silence its critics.

Before the raids on Scientology’s headquarters in the late 70’s, details weren’t available about the criminal activities of the group and just how far they would go to “shudder someone into silence.”

People like Paulette Cooper had no idea, when she was suddenly charged with threatening to blow up the U.N. and her life was shattered, that it was all a covert op by Scientology.

Once covert actions like Operation Freakout and “Operation Snow White” were uncovered and the press reported on how dangerous the group was, there was a flurry of interest in finding out more about Hubbard’s cult and attempts were made to seek justice.

One of the men who bravely faced years of harassment from Scientology was attorney Michael Flynn. He handled several high profiles cases against Scientologists. When the city of Clearwater wanted to hold hearings to get to the bottom of what Scientology was doing in and to their city, they turned to Flynn.

Scientology inflates the number of people who are active Scientologists. The truth is there are far more former Scientologists than there are current Scientologists. That says a lot. Many of the highest ranking people in the group, most of the early OT’s, even some of Hubbard’s closest confidants came to know Hubbard was a conman and left the group. If they asked questions, they were declared Suppressive and expelled.

In the early 80’s, a group of Scientologists started a class-action lawsuit against Scientology. They called their group FAIR. Michael Flynn was brought in to talk to them through the years to share the progress on his various suits. In 1986, they invited him to handle the class action suit.

For the first time on the net, here is the videotape of a meeting held on Feb. 15, 1986 in which Flynn addressed FAIR and invited Scientologists in attendance to join in the suit if they wished. Most were there to seek justice. As usual a fair number of people were there to disrupt the event. They get asked to leave.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Why does this board pick on Marty so much? (That was a rhetorical question).
<snip>
Yes, I'm a Marty fan. He's not perfect, but at least he's doing something.
<snip>
He sure IS doing something and has done things, including attempting to hamper the Senate Inquiry and media coverage in Oz.

There are numerous threads about what Marty is doing. One of main gripes would probably be that he seems to be intent on covering up the crimes and abuses of the Church by soley focusing on DM. If DM is used as the scape goat, then the Church and Scientology may not be exposed for what they are.....if that were the case, the crimes and abuses would continue.

What he's "doing" isn't doing us any favours in regard to our endeavour. Maybe that's why he gets "picked on" on occasion.

As a note: I have heard from 3 media people in Oz, that Marty had told them that he was the first to expose the real abuses within the Church under David Miscavige's management. Cooper could have got it from anywhere. Who knows, who cares?......What we do know is that Marty hasn't given the people in the media the *true* scoop, so why would he to Anderson Cooper?
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Alanzo & Carmel:

Rather than resort to innuendo and speculation, why don't you ask Anderson Cooper himself where he got that idea and why he wasn't aware of Stacey Brooks previous contribution ?

Was Stacey's report in any broad public media at the time, Alanzo ?

Perhaps SP Times ?

Where and when, please ?

I'm asking because I genuinely don't know and you omitted this information.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.

Look it up yourself!
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Larry, I think the complaints about violence at the top go back as far as the 1960's with Hubard and 1981 with DM regarding the mission holder issues and management orders.

Don't get me wrong as I am thrilled that Marty and some others have been telling the truth about Miscavige's violence since the spring/summer of 2009 with that first SP Times article.

But this was not nearly the first time it was done.

If you check you will find affidavits covering his violence such as Homer Shomer's in 1986 or so talking about his gang bang sec checks at ASI or Jesse Prince's affidavit of 17 March 1999 telling of Miscavige screaming in the face of and otherwise abusing a then sickly Mary Sue Hubbard to intimidate her into signing over LRH's fortune to organized scientology shortly after Hubbard died.

Or, one of my favorites here, watch Don Larson confess on the BBC in 1987 telling about Miscavige's violence:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6454589518364422755#

Even on a personal level I have told of Miscavige's violence many times on radio, in video, to press in Canada, Portland and Boston and otherwise in postings throughout 2006-2009 before the SP Times articles.

A few examples:

1) My affidavit of May 2008, see section 26 and sections around that:

http://evil.scientology.googlepages.com/crs.pdf

2) here is a link to a posting I made as "SME" on the public forum alt.religion.scientology in March 2007:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/2528865afb25843d?

Here is a bit from that posting:

"DM even spit on, beat and /or otherwise abused his own ASI people (see
Homer Shomer docs for an example) if he considered they were not
getting Hubbard enough money or losing money that could be Hubbard's.
Every time we put in a corporate structure, DM would violate it. He
ran a reign of terror from ASI. His alleged "non involvement" in
church management when he was in ASI and just "coordinating" and
"negotiating" with the church included such things as ordering who
would run RTC, who would run the key parts of CSI (WDC/CMO Int for
example) and then running those people himself and deciding who of
them got busted. This included things like him going to Int and
spitting on top church WDC/CMO Int executives, punching in the mouth
hard, slapping across the face hard and choking hard. And, again,
this was in the time period he says in court he was in ASI and not
involved in running the church".

3) Also from another posting of mine in March 2007:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/16f077c6107b94fd?

"Starting in late 81 with the advent of the new corporate structure
and DM securing complete control over the organizations, there have
been wholesale abuses of scientology staff, public and critics through
countless means. In 1982 alone, under DM, more people were horribly
abused, gang bang sec checked, declared, fair gamed and the like than
in the entire history of the GO!".

The point here is that a lot of people are getting out the word and some have for years. But thanks to Anonymous and others it is now going viral and many more can speak out. Just 4 years ago many press were terrified to write anything negative about them. I know as I worked with many.

Now the floodgates have opened and much, much more is to come.

Marty, Mike, Amy etc. got great coverage starting with that SP Times series last year and much more since then such as AC 360. This is terriffic!

But, again, disclosures of DM beating others go well back to before Marty even started to speak out. Why Anonymous itself was getting that word out every single month all over the world for well over a year before it came out in the SP Times.

I say "thank you" to everyone helping to get out the truth. Together we just may help end these abuses yet.

w/<3 Larry
 
He sure IS doing something and has done things, including attempting to hamper the Senate Inquiry and media coverage in Oz.

There are numerous threads about what Marty is doing. One of main gripes would probably be that he seems to be intent on covering up the crimes and abuses of the Church by soley focusing on DM. If DM is used as the scape goat, then the Church and Scientology may not be exposed for what they are.....if that were the case, the crimes and abuses would continue.

What he's "doing" isn't doing us any favours in regard to our endeavour. Maybe that's why he gets "picked on" on occasion.

As a note: I have heard from 3 media people in Oz, that Marty had told them that he was the first to expose the real abuses within the Church under David Miscavige's management. Cooper could have got it from anywhere. Who knows, who cares?......What we do know is that Marty hasn't given the people in the media the *true* scoop, so why would he to Anderson Cooper?

:thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Marty is telling as little truth as he thinks he can get away with because his agenda isn't the 'truth'. What it actually is is still unclear.

Zinj
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
Responding to this part in Reactive Mind's post.
"And to those of who you are watching from the sideline -- get a little skin in the game, OK?!"

Oh and please tell what skin have you put into what game?

James
 
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