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Marty Rathbun and Co.

This will be the first of three or four posts, after which I will fade back into the woodwork and probably never be heard from again. It's the least important of the posts I want to make (at least to me), so I thought I'd get it out of the way first.

I have been lurking for years and going through various things which I will entail in my story (next post). I've finally come to a new place - a place where I no longer have any desire to be a part of the Truman Show of Scientology, whether as an ex, a critic, or even a reader. I woke up yesterday and realized that most of the world goes throughout their day never once even thinking about Scientology. Since I have given up more than one unborn child, my youth, my spouse, my family, the childhood friends that should have been friends for life, to Scientology - why should I continue to give it any more of my time or consideration? I just want to say what I have to say and then... let it all go. ALL of it. Forever. I just want to get on with the rest of my life.

Anyway. Marty Rathbun and Co. I think Marty and Mike are obviously pretty hot potatoes when it comes to whistleblowing. Regardless of how much they ever admit to, or apologize for, they'll do some damage a la' SP Times etc, and I'm cool with that contribution.

As far as the whole independent field thing they have going on, I really don't care about that. Whatever floats your boat. HOWEVER - I want to make a few notes here of some things I've observed that bother me greatly. I seriously don't care if they go form up a new Church and do the whole reformation thing. But I'll always have a problem with people getting screwed, and I saw some things that, in my opinion only, are indicators to be wary of.

The most alarming have come from comments posted by 'RJ' on Marty's blog. Don't know who RJ is, don't care. But here are the things that made me raise my eyebrows, in quotes:

"Also the ends may have justified the means way back when the Church was a target of Hoover’s COINTELPRO and CIA’s MH CHAOS but those days are long since gone!"

"Maybe I am being callous but if it wasn’t for the fame that Ms. Cooper achieved from Op Freakout, she’d probably still be an obscure Yale College Professor."

Wow. That's all I will say on that, because the above quotes stand for themselves. Not someone I want to be associated with, sorry. Please note that neither of the statements above were taken to task in any way, shape or form by other members of Marty and Co.

I'm going to divide this into multiple postings, otherwise it'll get too long with all the quoting...
 
Moving on.

Alanzo posted the following comment on Marty's blog:

"In 2001 and 2002, one of your juniors repeatedly called my 82 year old father and told him that his son was a criminal. This confused him and caused him much anguish in the months before he died.

OSA also called other members of my family and tried to get them to disconnect from me.

It sucks, doesn’t it, Mike?"

Admittedly, Alanzo was being confrontational - but I kind of think he earned the right to be, don't you? His FATHER? Any sane human being would realize that Mike was going to just have to TAKE HIS LUMPS! You messed with the guy's dad! Suck it up and take it on the chin!

Here is the response posted by Jim Logan:

"Alanzo,
I hope that you can get this out of your system, and move on. Maybe your ‘non-dualism’ needs more practice to view different views. This victim, motivator flow must be awful stretched by now.

My 80 year old father spoke to Marc Yaeger and listned to his gibberish. He told him, ‘bring it on, kid’. Never heard from Marc again."

Sweet Jesus.

Continued...
 

skollie

Silver Meritorious Patron
You make some very valid points. I've stopped visiting Marty's blog because it makes me too angry seeing responses like that. I commented on Alanzo's post, John Peelers and responded to the comment regarding Paulette (all were moderated into oblivion and never made it to the board) Comments about David Mayo and Pat Broeker have been rather dismissive and nasty too.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

The most alarming have come from comments posted by 'RJ' on Marty's blog. Don't know who RJ is, don't care. But here are the things that made me raise my eyebrows, in quotes:

"Also the ends may have justified the means way back when the Church was a target of Hoover’s COINTELPRO and CIA’s MH CHAOS but those days are long since gone!"

"Maybe I am being callous but if it wasn’t for the fame that Ms. Cooper achieved from Op Freakout, she’d probably still be an obscure Yale College Professor."

Wow. That's all I will say on that, because the above quotes stand for themselves. Not someone I want to be associated with, sorry. Please note that neither of the statements above were taken to task in any way, shape or form by other members of Marty and Co.

-snip-

The same person posts on Geir Isene's forum with similar agreement and approval, as does one Maria, who artfully rationalizes Hubbard spew and has noted that Scientology - and the Church of Scientology, presumably without Miscavige - is all that stands between us and Mk-Ultra (the Psychs). Maria is a darling of Isene's Straight Talk blog/Scientology forum, although there appears to be more "wiggle room" on that forum than on Marty Rathbun's forum.
 

Div6

Crusader
Yeah, there are some hard core people over there, I agree. I am not in a hurry to rush to any sort of judgement though. A) unlike ESMB it is moderated; B) they are reaching an audience beyond the reach of ESMB; C) they are exposing some of the crimes.

Of course I would like to see more transparency and openness, but an iceberg doesn't melt in a day, as they say.

I wish you prosperity and happiness in your life as you move on.
 
Let's not forget how John Peeler was received. John posted the following comment ('on Marty's blog' can be assumed from now on):

"Thanks Marty. I know that it must be hard for you these days in your current position. I just feel that a lot of people are being given the impression that all things bad in the CoS stem only from DM, and IMO, that’s not entirely the case. Hubbard created and utilized a bunch of tech that was used to intimidate, harrass, investigate, interrogate, humiliate and control a lot of people – especially his own staff and Sea Org members. DM, yourself, Wilhere, base execs and I, utilized these techniques at the Int Base because we “had a planet to Clear,” and from what I knew were all on-policy and in-tech actions. As I worked with all the staff at the base, including DM, after leaving, I never blamed it all on you or DM. I blamed it mainly on the Source of this Tech that we were all following. But now, I see ex Int staff like yourself and a handful of others only blaming DM and the current Co$, not the Source. People like Paul Haggis and many ex members who have spoken out against Hubbard and/or Scientology have been attacked by the GO and now OSA for many, many years, long before Miscavige was even around. Although I would love to see DM and the CoS taken down, I would also like to see the disappearance of ANY of the Tech Hubbard created, or that was created in his name, damaging and harmful to other people who went against it, didn’t tow the line or didn’t follow the straignt and narrow. Anyway, it would be much appreciated if maybe you did a write-up that explained the metered ethics interviews that arrived on the scene after your return from the Freewinds and what the story was behind that. The only requirements being that the interviewer only having to have meter training. This gave DM, executives and MAA’s a lot of ammunition to intimidate staff on the base and pull overts and withholds without having to go through Tech Div or the C/S as these were all “I’m not auditing you.”"

Jim Logan's immediate reply was:

"Mr. Peeler,
I suppose to give you the benefit of the doubt I should ask, have you read DMSMH? If so, did you finish it? If so have you ever actually audited someone else through an engram, secondary or lock? I wait with bated breath for your reply."

Sarcastic and (to use a Scientology term for one of the last times) - 1.1. John replied to him calmly.

RJ jumped in with the following:

"Come on John this is a typical haters line:

“Hubbard created and utilized a bunch of tech that was used to intimidate, harrass, investigate, interrogate, humiliate and control a lot of people – especially his own staff and Sea Org members.”

I’ve read every HCOB in the Tech Vols and haven’t found a single example of the above.

So could you be a bit more specific like giving dates and titles to your ge4nerality."

I guess 'haters' will be Marty and co's version of 'SP.'

But it didn't end there! Marty posted to RJ:

"Good point RJ. I don’t know if I’ll waste any more time on this. This is like trying to argue with a guy that guns kill and not the people pulling the trigger."

The comments end with Marty essentially treating John with a vague contempt.

Why does this part matter? Because of what John went through. He doesn't deserve to be treated like that. Because everyone who is a part of Marty and Co piled on. Because they've shown they are ready to divide people into groups, and because they attack someone (without cause - John's post was very reasonable) primarily because it was perceived that he was attacking Marty. Again, remove the Scientology from it - it's bad behavior on a basic, human level, and that's a bad, bad indicator.

More to come...
 
Finally, all the BS re: disconnection and how it has been perverted by DM.

Please, please, please - do not buy this. Even the BEST possibility still sucks. The best is that LRH actually cancelled disconnection. That still sucks, though. Why? BECAUSE HE INVENTED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. And I'm not talking about 'the right to disconnect from truly antagonistic blah-de-blah.' Yes, if someone wants to kill me, or ruin my business, or harm my spouse, or give me a lobotomy, I surely don't plan to remain connected to them. I'm saying, flat out, that LRH invented and put into use the kind of disconnection that is being used by he-who-must-not-be-named today.

And that's bad. It means, regardless of what he said later, LRH is the one who created what DM calls disconnection today. The thing that tears families apart for 'crimes' that have nothing to do with the real world. The same type of thing has happened before, under LRH.

I mean, come on... who's seen the R advices that were sent down during the mission network blitzkreig? It really doesn't matter that 'DM was sending him alarming information.' LRH was pissed and those were some bloodthirsty 'notes'. Or how about the consultant advices after that time, with the new management? And who do you think invented the 'declared for all eternity, for ever and ever?' Yes, LRH.

Don't believe this bunk line Marty and Joe Howard and others are pushing about how it's all DM's fault - Hubbard created disconnection. Whether he ameliorated it later or not (and he did not, that's complete smokescreen, PR BS) HE created what is in use today by DM.

The fact that they'd create and forward this bunk is what concerns me.

As I said, I really don't care what they do in terms of creating a new church. I'll do my 3 threads and then I'm gone forever, back to the real world. But I felt I should speak out on the specifics I've posted here, because I think they are cause for alarm for anyone not wanting to get burned again.

Caveat emptor.
 

omnom

Patron with Honors
failmeansfail, I've enjoyed your posting, and respect your decision to head out into the world unchained from Scn.

I don't know what else to post, but I agree with you, and I think you make your points quickly and rationally. I like that.

I look forward to any future posting, and wish you the best in the future.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Very good posts, I agree wholeheartedly with all you say, apart from the "return to the real world" thing. ;)

Having scientology as an organized religion would in my opinion only work if ALOT of the "tech" was done away with. DM is probably one of the most evil, criminal persons currently residing within the US, but that´s not all that is rotten with the church.
 

dontscamme

Patron Meritorious
failmeansfail, you make a lot of sense, and I agree with what you are saying.

I hope you are successful in completely putting Scn behind you if you have decided that is best for you. Best wishes.
 
Yeah, there are some hard core people over there, I agree. I am not in a hurry to rush to any sort of judgement though. A) unlike ESMB it is moderated; B) they are reaching an audience beyond the reach of ESMB; C) they are exposing some of the crimes.

Of course I would like to see more transparency and openness, but an iceberg doesn't melt in a day, as they say.

I wish you prosperity and happiness in your life as you move on.

Thanks very much. I understand where you're coming from and have no problem with what you said here. To clarify, I'm fine with them running their 'group' anyway they want. They aren't obligated to provide transparency, and no one has the right to force them to (under the current circumstances, that is - if they create an 'org board', that's a different story. They'd be accountable to any intelligent laity.)

I also have NO PROBLEM with them practicing all the Scientology they want in whatever way they want - or not.

The things I specifically posted about are just things I think are worthy of concern in and of themselves. I see a lot of probably decent people in those comments who are obviously desperate for a new way to practice the subject, and who seem to be in need of a group leader. I see a veritable gang-bang of agreement and not much critical thinking, so I'm providing some of mine, here.

I do agree wholeheartedly that they are invaluable whisteblowers, and while I appreciate it, don't expect me to hand out any medals to Marty or Mike. What they are doing is simply common decency, given their own past actions.
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
I think this thread is brilliant and mirrors many of my same thoughts and about many of the same posters on Marty and Geir's blogs/forums.

Marty's blog does serve a purpose and despite my own feelings of nausea over what some of these guys like Logan and RJ spew out of their mouths, especially towards guys like John Peeler and Kevin Mackey, the fact is that Marty and friends are extremely effective which almost makes up for the arrogance of some of his posters.

I do think though, that some of these same people that post on Marty's blog that staunchly promote "standard tech" don't realize that Marty does not use Scientology exclusively but also mixes other effective techniques from many other schools of thought when he consults people. I often wonder if they missed that. Standard Tech? There of course, isn't such a thing.
 
Thanks for all the supportive posts. And He-man, I apologize. I realized how what I wrote could be construed.

I'm not implying that anyone posting here or on other boards isn't in the 'real world.' Not at all. These boards have been vital for me, truly.

I'll actually make it more clear in one of my remaining threads, but suffice to say, I'm talking about the real world from my viewpoint - one not only free of the Scientology organization, but of any daily consideration of the word or subject whatsoever. I want to be free from it entirely. It's sucked away too much of my life already.

But I am thankful for all those who have posted and written, and I understand the necessity. We all get where we're going in different ways and at different speeds, and that's one of the things that makes life so kick-ass. :)
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
That was some very good postings Failmeansfail! :)

Haarumphh! - I'd hate to see a writer capable of this lucidity and reason leave! - But OTOH I will never assert that you have any obligation to stay in this fight... You don't!

I'm very disappointed by Marty &Co, for the exact reasons you point out.

In fact I'm a bit mystified.. Mr. Rathbun do know this cult from the inside out. He has seen and done it all.. Including being DM's punchbag... Yet we see this man still believing in Hubbard and continuing applying 'handling of SP's'!?

The power of Hubbardian indoctrination and implanting is daunting!

:yes:
 
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He-man

Hero extraordinary
Thanks for all the supportive posts. And He-man, I apologize. I realized how what I wrote could be construed.

I'm not implying that anyone posting here or on other boards isn't in the 'real world.' Not at all. These boards have been vital for me, truly.

No, you misunderstood me completely, all I wanted to say with that was that I want you to stick around. =)
You have way with words that I wish I had, what you says speaks of truth and you make some very valid points.
I understand the real word can look like a tempting place to live in, but really, what does it have to offer this board can´t? Great food? Beautiful women? Friends?

If you decide to never look back, good luck to you! I wish you all the best in your life, and I am a bit jelaous about it too. ;)
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I concur failmeansfail.
Thanks for that and echoing many people's unspoken thoughts.

All the best on your journey forward.
:)
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
Thanks for your post, failmeansfail. I couldn't agree more. Both RJ and Jim Logan are true fanatics and seem to always attack and never defend.

Marty seems to use them to do his dirty work.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
they're the gadflies; not the gad, and, for that matter, marty's site is deliberately misdirected.

That may sound paranoid, but, if you don't look at marty's game, well, that's your problem.

Why would anyone think that stuff is what he says it is just because he says it's that way? Including his own motivation?

I'm a bit confounded.

Zinj
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Great sequence of posts, failmeansfail. :)
Regarding RJ's rejoinder to John:

"Come on John this is a typical haters line:

“Hubbard created and utilized a bunch of tech that was used to intimidate, harrass, investigate, interrogate, humiliate and control a lot of people – especially his own staff and Sea Org members.”

I’ve read every HCOB in the Tech Vols and haven’t found a single example of the above.
I'm sure that most of the in-the-know defenders of Hubbard are well aware of the copious body of "technology" that is not included in any of the published HCOBs or PLs.
Anyone who is in-the-know as regards Hubbard's writings and utterances is well aware of the copious body of "tech" contained in "Consultant Advices" etc, stuff that has never been published in any HCOB or PL but is acted upon as Holy Writ just the same.
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
Great posts failmeansfail !

I can find abundant examples of scaring fanatic statements on Marty's blog/Scoentology-Cult/Scientologyforum. Maybe they steems from an inability to confront evil in LRH and clearly shows that they are still living in a cult, with a cultish mentality, unable to look a the real world and compare results in an analytical way.

Funny how Jim Logan challence John on having read DMSMH and audited an engram. Does Jim Logan knows that DMSMH do NOT produce Clears? We find the first Clear in 1964, and even then it was not the same "Clear" as described in DMSMH. Do Jim Logan knows that engrams are not the source of abberation and are not what's wrong in case but decisions/postulates are? It just happens that by running engrams postulates come to light and get as-ised, but LRH was plain wrong about engrams. Yet they still sell that book and they still con people into believing that they can attain a perfect memory, no psychosomatic illnesses, the perfect IQ (not to talk about supernatural powers with the OT levels) by unconditionally giving their money and life to the Church.

Also, that a DMSMH session often produce good results it does not mean that they should engage in a holy war to conqueer the world and harass people who criticize their view.
 
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