Marty Rathbun, get a grip!

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
When I saw Marty's over-the-top blog post this morning, I honestly thought OSA had hacked him and was trying to discredit him by posting that. I asked if that were so and an interesting exchange with Marty ensued.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/who-is-joel-phillips/#comment-192362

The full exchange is "after the jump" as Tony Ortega likes to say but I found the fact that Marty deleted my final reply to him to be very telling about where Marty is coming from. Here is what was deleted:

RFW is a morally bankrupt caricature that has little bearing on anything. I could care less what he has on his site and I would venture to say that no-one else much cares either. People, myself included, do care what you put on your site. When you republish as true an obvious hack job on Phillips and advocate harassing him based on it, you do yourself, as an OL for Independent Scientologists, an extreme disservice.

You know, if this post were any test at all, it is a test of whether your supporters will call you on obviously inappropriate behavior. Because, you see, that is one of the biggest problems with David Miscavige's Church of Scientology, no-one has the balls to tell him to get a grip.

Marty, get a grip.

disinfected
John Pardillo

Here is the full exchange:

disinfected | March 23, 2012 at 12:53 am
Marty, did OSA hack your site and turn it into a parody of Religious Freedom Watch complete with a call to make trouble for Phillips by contacting his associates ala OSA Standard Operating Procedure?

disinfected

martyrathbun09 | March 23, 2012 at 3:00 am
No, simply a simple ethics gradient. He could trim his sheets tomorrow…or not.

disinfected | March 23, 2012 at 9:23 am
Good morning, Marty

RFW is an example of the moral bankruptcy of the Church of Scientology, As are the tactics of OSA such as contacting a critic’s associates. IMO, you do not flatter yourself by duplicating them nor advance your cause. You are basing a lot on a random post in an internet newsgroup, something that is easily hacked by those in the know and there are plenty in opposition to the Church of Scientology that know how to forge usenet messages. A message that goes “I am a Scientologist and I eat babies” should be automatically suspect,

disinfected
John Pardillo

martyrathbun09 | March 23, 2012 at 1:14 pm
John
First, I am not into self-flattery. Second, I haven’t duplicated them in the slightest. Sanity is the ability to recognize identities, similarities and differences. Flunk on that drill
Marty

disinfected | March 23, 2012 at 1:47 pm
“Flatter yourself” is a turn of phrase that does not refer to self-flattery, as I am sure you well know. I see a number of similarities, not the least being the use of questionable and badly sourced (and likely totally bogus) information to malign a critic and advocating that supporters harass that critic in, IMO, an inappropriate manner (is there an appropriate manner to harass someone?). Fair game, anyone? You might want to see if the house across the street from Phillips is available for rent to prospective filmmakers; there may be a documentary in here somewhere. Also, I think Staples has a special going if you want to print some “Joel Phillips – Internet bigot” flyers to distribute in the neighborhood. Oh, and thanks for implying that I am lacking in the sanity department

disinfected

martyrathbun09 | March 23, 2012 at 1:59 pm
You noted: “I see a number of similarities, not the least being the use of questionable and badly sourced (and likely totally bogus) information to malign a critic and advocating that supporters harass that critic in, IMO, an inappropriate manner (is there an appropriate manner to harass someone?). Fair game, anyone?” What I find interesting is that you are so offended by my simply posting already published material along with the comments by you and others challenging its authenticity – and you equate that to what Phillips and the church has done. What is attributed to Phillips about Islam is FAR, FAR less offensive than the content of his webpage RFW. Yes, resounding FLUNK on the sanity test. Pass on the test this post posed. This blog has been about truth from day one – and there is no more painstakingly accurate site on the subject of Scientology in the history of Scientology than this one. I never suggested harassment of any kind. I solely suggested the purveyance of truth. Get a life.

RFW is a morally bankrupt caricature that has little bearing on anything. I could care less what he has on his site and I would venture to say that no-one else much cares either. People, myself included, do care what you put on your site. When you republish as true an obvious hack job on Phillips and advocate harassing him based on it, you do yourself, as an OL for Independent Scientologists, an extreme disservice.

You know, if this post were any test at all, it is a test of whether your supporters will call you on obviously inappropriate behavior. Because, you see, that is one of the biggest problems with David Miscavige's Church of Scientology, no-one has the balls to tell him to get a grip.

Marty, get a grip.

disinfected
John Pardillo

mrinder | March 23, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Differences, similarities and identities.

Have you EVER seen a comment critical of or even correcting the RFW site (or any of the church hatesites) posted on that site?

I would wager that if Joel Phillips decided to post here to claim that the anti-Islam rant was not authored by him it would be posted. Even then others have brought forth the facts as they know them (Mark Bunker and others) and they too have been posted though they are not critical of Phillips.

On the other hand, the day a critical comment refuting any of his “facts” is posted on Phillips’ hatesite will be exactly one day AFTER David Miscavige takes out a full page ad in the NY Times apologizing for his human rights abuses and offering to do media interviews.

Don’t hold your breath.

disinfected | March 23, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Hi Mike

I see Marty just deleted my last reply to him. If you could see the content of that reply, his deletion of it is very telling. I will post that reply on ESMB.

martyrathbun09 | March 23, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Good, more your crowd.
 
The only thing gripping is Scientology's effect on Marty's and his followers' minds.

Don't be so surprise at how non-Church Scientologists treat each other.

The craziness in the Church isn't because someone with a totalitarian view took it over.

The Tech, when applied, drives people to be totalitarian in their relationships with others.

It is all about manipulation--The ARC Triangle, the Tone Scale, the Comm Cycle,
Tone 40, the ethics, are each and every one a piece of the jig-saw puzzle of Scientology totalitarianism.

When used in tandem the social result will always be the same: a group with one leader who determines who is good, who is bad, and what is ok or not ok to say or think.

This doesn’t happen in spite of the Tech, it happens because of the Tech.

You can count on it.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I read his blog yesterday.

What crossed my mind all yesterday is that he cannot accept or admit he was/is wrong, that he was scammed, is continuing to scam his followers, and that he did bad - all in the name of scno/co$. He never will. He may have tiny enlightenments, here and there, a step forward, but he quickly takes 2 back. The anxiety is too much. Some people are like that, just stuck, never able to clear the boards, learn something new about himself and life, and move on. Some of his followers will continue in his footsteps, as that is easier than confronting the truth - and some will eventually fall out, and move on.

Such is life, and the world is full of people like that. Lots more than any of us want to admit.

Unfortunately the scno drills to up 'confront' do not really up 'confront', rather 'up' one's contentiousness and combativeness. He'g got it in spades.

:sadangel:
 

Veda

Sponsor
I looked at the A.R.S. link, and Chuck Beatty has the only response, and he seems to thinks it's a satirical piece - a parody.

Additionally, with the Nation if Islam being one of Scientology Inc.'s customers, it would seem unlikely that one of Scientology Inc.'s main shills and propagandists would launch an attack on Islam.
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm not really sure what inspired Marty to write this post.

The blog post he links to is a year-and-a-half old and the news is even older. Isn't this the guy who can be seen debating Tory and Andreas in an old Bunker video?

Has Joel Philips done something lately or is Marty just feeling that it is time for another two minutes of hate and couldn't think of anyone else?

Additionally, that ARS post doesn't look like it is actually directly from Joel Philips. Is there a source on the original?

Actually, a bit more digging and it looks like that comment was posted to a bunch of sites discussing Islam going as far back as 2006 and Joel has denied making them. They could easily be spoofed comments in the first place.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
I'm not really sure what inspired Marty to write this post.

The blog post he links to is a year-and-a-half old and the news is even older. Isn't this the guy who can be seen debating Tory and Andreas in an old Bunker video?

Has Joel Philips done something lately or is Marty just feeling that it is time for another two minutes of hate and couldn't think of anyone else?

Additionally, that ARS post doesn't look like it is actually directly from Joel Philips. Is there a source on the original?

Actually, a bit more digging and it looks like that comment was posted to a bunch of sites discussing Islam going as far back as 2006 and Joel has denied making them. They could easily be spoofed comments in the first place.

In accordance with confidential LRH attack tech, which instructs re. the use of multiple channels of attack (overt, covert, etc.), this bit of (old) black propaganda (newly re-activated) by MartyWorld against Scientology Inc.'s Joel Phillips appears to be in concert with the below cease and desist order from Steve Hall - Or that may just be one heck of a coincidence.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?26701-Steve-Hall-Unloads-On-Joel-Phillips&p=673398

Intra-Hubbardite war: Hubbardites referencing and applying Hubbard's instructions and explanations, either to PR themselves, or to attack the other - and when those instructions are confidential, they may not mention them, even though they still apply them.
 
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Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I thought this part from Mark Bunder was interesting. (Bolded text done by me.)

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/who-is-joel-phillips/#comment-192362

This is an old post from someone looking to defame Joel Phillips by pretending to write extremist stuff as him. Not that I’m defending Phillips because RFW is filled with the over-the-top lies that corporate Scientology has spread about little old SP’s like me and my friends for years. Someone in the past also created a website supposedly from me and opened a twitter account in my name and spread similar anti-Islam messages in my name. I got the twitter account and website taken down. Tony Ortega wrote a piece about it way back when:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2009/10/google_and_twit.php

RFW is crap and the folks behind it are crappy. I think Phillips is likely just a front for RFW since in the video I shot of him talking with Andreas he seemed not to even know what he had on the site. But the anti-Islam material was written by someone else simply to cause trouble for Phillips and as a parody of Phillips own RFW site.

I've always suspected that, except for allowing his name to be attached to it, Joel Phillips doesn't actually have anything to do with the RFW site. It's a lot of work and a lot of money to be chasing down all that dirt about people and putting all that stuff up there. No way this one guy is doing all that. It has to be the church directly running it and hiding behind this guy's name.

Not that that's any excuse for him allowing himself to be associated with it but...I can guarantee it's not him doing the dirty work.

And even if he changed his mind about allowing himself to be associated with it...no way he'd be allowed to do that as long as he is a "Scientologist in good standing".
 

Veda

Sponsor
RFW, as Mark Bunker wrote, is not just "loaded with over-the-top lies that corporate Scientology has spread about little old SPs like me and my friends for years," but, also, according to Independent Scientologist Steve Hall, with "convicted felons and notorious anti-religionists."

As for Joel Phillips being used as a front for RFW. That's no surprise. S.O.P. for Scientology.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Just glanced over at MartyWorld, and the topic has been changed. I think Marty&Mike put their collective foot in their collective mouths on this one. The segue out of the mess seems to have begun with a poster exclaiming, "I think this is a VERY well laid trap by OSA."

Aha!

So much for that. :eyeroll:
 

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
Just glanced over at MartyWorld, and the topic has been changed. I think Marty&Mike put their collective foot in their collective mouths on this one. The segue out of the mess seems to have begun with a poster exclaiming, "I think this is a VERY well laid trap by OSA."

Aha!

So much for that. :eyeroll:

Previous blog posting:
"I encourage anyone who has time on their hands to see to it that each and every one of Phillips’ business contacts are made aware of what Phillips has been up to."

and:
"Nonetheless, my advice remains, I hope that all of this fellow’s business contacts are informed as to what he is up to."

Current blog posting"
"I am not suggesting in the slightest that anyone engage in anything resembling harassment, Corporate Scientology style or otherwise."

Is there some distinction that I am missing here? Isn't going taking your beef to "this fellow’s business contacts" exactly a form of "harassment, Corporate Scientology style"?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Previous blog posting:
"I encourage anyone who has time on their hands to see to it that each and every one of Phillips’ business contacts are made aware of what Phillips has been up to."

and:
"Nonetheless, my advice remains, I hope that all of this fellow’s business contacts are informed as to what he is up to."

Current blog posting"
"I am not suggesting in the slightest that anyone engage in anything resembling harassment, Corporate Scientology style or otherwise."

Is there some distinction that I am missing here? Isn't going taking your beef to "this fellow’s business contacts" exactly a form of "harassment, Corporate Scientology style"?

"Statements one makes can be curved. 'She had a birthday party', becomes 'The delinquents inner circle gathered yesterday for a sex orgy and pretended to the police that it was a birthday party. No one was jailed'...

"A person comes to fear bad things being said about him. In the face of a Whspering Campaign, real or imagined, one tends to withdraw, tends to become less active and reach less."

L. Ron Hubbard, 'PR Series 18'.

Onward with the Intra-Hubbardite war!
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
The only thing gripping is Scientology's effect on Marty's and his followers' minds.

Don't be so surprise at how non-Church Scientologists treat each other.

The craziness in the Church isn't because someone with a totalitarian view took it over.

The Tech, when applied, drives people to be totalitarian in their relationships with others.

It is all about manipulation--The ARC Triangle, the Tone Scale, the Comm Cycle,
Tone 40, the ethics, are each and every one a piece of the jig-saw puzzle of Scientology totalitarianism.

When used in tandem the social result will always be the same: a group with one leader who determines who is good, who is bad, and what is ok or not ok to say or think.

This doesn’t happen in spite of the Tech, it happens because of the Tech.

You can count on it.

The Anabaptist Jacques

I think it happens because of the structure around the tech. The policy and the ethics, the stats pushes, reges, the org hierarchy.

Also the perversion of "the greatest good for the greatest number (of dynamics)" to greatest number of dollars. And the idea that this is the only way out ever and that any failure means the desperate long dark teatime of the soul for all eternity...

LRH said some valuable things about lightness versus seriousness and insouciance and not taking things seriously to be effective - and then inflicted the greatest seriousness possible (your eternity is at stake) on the whole subject.

Another dissonance, another day in Scio
 

Veda

Sponsor
I think it happens because of the structure around the tech. The policy and the ethics, the stats pushes, reges, the org hierarchy.

-snip-

Ethics is based on Ethics Tech; stat pushes, org hierarchy, etc., on Organizational Tech; reges on Hard Sell Tech.

It's all Tech: Hubbard's explanations, and his instructions on how to do things.

That Hubbard had a hidden agenda, and was playing mind-games with his trusting followers, can make it confusing at times.

Even the "Tech Tech," the auditing tech, etc., has its share of covert twists, especially the upper levels. There's plenty about which to be wary in the auditing tech too.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Oy F'n Vey! :melodramatic:

So much for Marty's "The Great Middle Path". :coolwink:

Thanks for yet another series of bulls-eye reality checks, Veda. :clap: :yes:

Face :)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...




Hey Marty, isn't that Fair Game?

martyrathbun09 | March 23, 2012 at 3:00 am
No, simply a simple ethics gradient. He could trim his sheets tomorrow…or not.

Oh I see!

It's a simple "ethics gradient" to dead agent and "utterly ruin" Joel Phillips with his partners, investors and clients.

So, that brings up another question, Marty. . .

If Joel doesn't respond to the "ethics gradient" and you have to keep "increasing the gradient", are you saying that at some point you will violate Ron's (and your own) policy by NOT increasing the gradient, but instead letting Joel walk away scott free?

You mean if you start applying the gradients of ethics and Joel doesn't come to his senses, you simply stop applying the gradients of ethics, because ...ummm, Scientologists don't apply the gradients of ethics unless the out-ethics people cooperate? So, in other words, it would have to be voluntary on Joel's part?

Otherwise, wouldn't the gradients of ethics keep going until the person is declared, disconnected, dead-agented and utterly destroyed? Like dead?

Oh, what are you saying? Scientology doesn't order people to be killed? So Ron was only bluffing when he tried to get Paulette Cooper to be sent to prison, go insane and commit suicide? Those weren't Fair Game gradients of ethics right?

What Marty? You say that Ron has been dead for 26 years and I am besmirching his good name?

And, what's that Marty? You say that your indie cult members buy all this?

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

WOW!!! How the hell did you ever sell that absurdly illogical and obvious bullshit to them? What? You say you've got tech for that too?

The KSW Hokus Pocus

You put your right acceptable truth in,
You take your enemy line out,
You put your right shore story in,
And you shake it all about,

You do the KSW hokus pocus
and you turn your indies minds around
That what it's all about.



INDIES EASILY HAVE WINS
AND LINE CHARGE ON THE HOCUS POCUS SONG


[video=youtube;pB3RoOWBTEU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB3RoOWBTEU[/video]​
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
Well I'm someone aligned with Marty despite his several bashings of me,
his refusal to post my comments and what I believe was a ban. Apparently non existent or lifted.

------------------

On this thread:-

TERRIL

Was not I who stated that :-

“a) squirreled, and b) denigrated Hubbard and his technology. Third, I found both “a” and “b” to be rampant within the current Freezone.”

I asked for time place form and event.

No response.
-----------------

"martyrathbun09 | March 22, 2012 at 11:59 pm | Reply

TP: your ethics are way out."

-----------------

Well I decided that after having promoted the FZ for 14 years and
I get such crap that I can comment. And did.

Was deleted.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Another aspect of the Intra-Hubbardite war is the tension between the Freezone Scientologists and the Independent Scientologists.

Part of the problem is that the Freezone (one word) traces the origins of its name to the Free Zone (two words). Here's a site that presents the Free Zone Decree of 1982: http://galac-patra.narod.ru/index.html. This is also the founding Decree of the current Free Zone (now better known as Ron's Orgs), which has additional (upper, after OT 3) OT levels and, thus differs from Standard Tech, per Hubbard. Although, Ron's Orgs believes that its upper OT levels are sanctioned by Hubbard (who now operates a doll body on the mother ship, etc., etc.) The current Freezone (one word) besides having borrowed its name from the founding (two words) Free Zone (a.k.a. Ron's Orgs), has (mostly) had a tolerant to friendly relationship with the Free Zone (two words), so from Marty's and the Independent Scientology's perspective, this would create some disagreement and tension.

Plus there are statements such as this, from Marty Rathbun's blog, of several months ago, directed at Independent Scientologists:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are 'tied up' under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, 'OT I and OT II are of little importance': especially coming from 'Class VIIIs', 'Class VIs' and folks claiming to be 'trained by Ron.' They may as well be saying 'Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.'..."

So there's a fair amount of tension and suspicion, in Outside the CofS Scientology, between the FNs, VGIs, and floating TAs.

And recently, the IFA, the International Freezone Association, has changed its name to the Association of Professional Independent Scientologists http://internationalfreezone.net/whatistheifa.shtml , which was regarded as a 'win" by Marty: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/association-of-professional-independent-scientologists

So, Marty seems to be making some progress in "getting ethics in" in at least part of the Scientology Freezone.

And this is another of the many aspects of the ongoing Intra-Hubbardite war, which us "Failed Scientologists," "Wogs," "SPs," "DBs," and "Homo Saps," are watching with interest and amusement.
 
Well I'm someone aligned with Marty despite his several bashings of me,
his refusal to post my comments and what I believe was a ban. Apparently non existent or lifted.

------------------

On this thread:-

TERRIL

Was not I who stated that :-

“a) squirreled, and b) denigrated Hubbard and his technology. Third, I found both “a” and “b” to be rampant within the current Freezone.”

I asked for time place form and event.

No response.
-----------------

"martyrathbun09 | March 22, 2012 at 11:59 pm | Reply

TP: your ethics are way out."

-----------------

Well I decided that after having promoted the FZ for 14 years and
I get such crap that I can comment. And did.

Was deleted.

There is an old saying, Terril: "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me constantly for 30 years, then shame on me."

Scientology, in or out of influence of the Church, will always be fascistic.

One leader who says what is OK to say or think, and who is OK or not OK.

Even before Marty and apart from Marty, look at the bickering amongst freezoners or outies or whatever they call themselves. Hell, they even bicker about what to call themselves.

It's Scientology. It's hierarchal and all about control of others.

Just switch the word "Romans" to "Church of Scinetology" and this is how it seems to me.

http://youtu.be/gb_qHP7VaZE

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
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