Marty Rathbun, I have some questions for ya.

elwood

Patron with Honors
Marty Rathbun -

Same old bullshit - different day. If Marty says he has OT abilities, let's see 'em.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Marty Rathbun -

Same old bullshit - different day. If Marty says he has OT abilities, let's see 'em.


I think that someone who has publicly left and publicly criticized the cult- has even gone to the media- can hardly be accused of "same old bullshit, different day".
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I think that someone who has publicly left and publicly criticized the cult- has even gone to the media- can hardly be accused of "same old bullshit, different day".

Then that's not very perspicacious thinking. Wordclear 'opportunist'.

Zinj
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Then that's not very perspicacious thinking. Wordclear 'opportunist'.

Zinj

WHAT!!!!

He's begging for a lawsuit from an organisation/ individual who he says has 100s of millions of dollars, practices fair game, and he should know.

Marc Headley also an opportunist?
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
(--sarcasm on--)Perhaps a chart could be devised letting us know which whistleblowers are opportunists and which ones are helping.

Not to mention that whole pissing off the most litigious cult in history angle as Terril mentions...
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
It's not unusual for thugs to piss each other off and I doubt seriously that Marty expects a 'lawsuit' from the Cult. Terril (and others) tend towards wishful thinking (and hero worship.) No, I don't think Marc's an opportunist. I do think he may be a little naive.

Zinj
 
Got the documents?

I seem to recall a number of old messages posted on the Robert Vaughn Young website where RVY advised someone, "the first one to turn state's evidence stays out of jail. Stock up on documents and then take them to the feds. . . "

It seems to me that this is what is happening here. First one to turn state's evidence wins. Marty is not stupid.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I seem to recall a number of old messages posted on the Robert Vaughn Young website where RVY advised someone, "the first one to turn state's evidence stays out of jail. Stock up on documents and then take them to the feds. . . "

It seems to me that this is what is happening here. First one to turn state's evidence wins. Marty is not stupid.

I kind of doubt it considering Marty's 2nd post here on ESMB. If I had to guess, both the 'Church' and Rathbun have so much dirt on each other that neither will be 'reporting' the other. And, in his 'interview' with the SPTimes Marty pointedly avoids mentioning 'Church' crimes, whether he could be held responsible for them or not. His 'confession' to conspiracy to obstruct justice in the McPherson case, which he apparently believes (wrongly) to be beyond the statute of limitations probably *won't* be prosecuted because Bernie McCabe is loathe to do anything Scientology related.

All Marty did in his 'interview', excepting the confession to destroying evidence, is confirm already reported abuse within the 'Church', which horrendous as it especially in light of the so called 'religious nature' of Scientology, would be a bagatelle more likely to be pursued in civil litigation if anybody could actually afford such things.

If we are to believe what he himself has said, Marty has no intention at all of reporting the crimes of his (former?) 'Church' to the authorities.

Zinj
 

Terril park

Sponsor
It's not unusual for thugs to piss each other off and I doubt seriously that Marty expects a 'lawsuit' from the Cult. Terril (and others) tend towards wishful thinking (and hero worship.) No, I don't think Marc's an opportunist. I do think he may be a little naive.

Zinj

If their is no lawsuit, Marty's comments stand unchallenged. And can be reported worldwide. Oops. they have been!

In your opinion what does it require to get a lawsuit from COS?

Wishfull thinking from me? What am I wishfully thinking?

Hero worship? Who am I worshipping?

"No, I don't think Marc's an opportunist. I do think he may be a
little naive."

You think he should shut up?

jeez!
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
"No, I don't think Marc's an opportunist. I do think he may be a
little naive."

You think he should shut up?

jeez!

Where did I say that? Marc's been very forthcoming over *years* with information and I and everybody else I can think of except the 'Church' appreciates that. That Marty chose to 'confirm' what Marc had already reported is also welcome, although tinged with enough 'spin' to allow Marty to dodge as much responsibility as possible.

I do think Marc is being naive in granting Rathbun as much 'benefit of the doubt' as he seems to be doing, but, I don't hold that against Marc, since he has no benefit from it himself, except the benefit of seeing the 'Church' under well deserved fire.

As to 'hero worship', I think you're putting Marty Rathbun on a white horse made of plastic and full of the horseshit he wants to feed you.

Marc's taken the risk of not only actually *giving* information that would expose himself to danger, but even suing the 'Church' himself. What's Marty done besides confirm as little as he chose while painting himself in glossy colors?

Zinj
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
...RVY advised someone, "the first one to turn state's evidence stays out of jail. Stock up on documents and then take them to the feds..."

...It seems to me that this is what is happening here. First one to turn state's evidence wins. Marty is not stupid...
The problems with "turning state's evidence" are:
a) The state will 'shut you up', as part of the deal.
b) The world will hear only the distorted story that the state wants it to hear.
c) The incriminating evidence you posses will be FOREVER buried and manipulated by the state.
d) You will be stepping out of one prison (scientology), and right into another (the shame of silence).

If you want the world to know about evidence you posses, then publish it to the world first, loudly, widely. Don't tell anybody in advance that you're going to do it, just do it, quickly, without warning, before somebody tries to stop you. Ask yourself if you place a higher priority on publishing instant truth to the world; or selling out, cashing in, capitulating. If you in the bottom 99% of power, are you really concerned about going to jail, do you really think you need to cop a plea -- and subject yourself to lifelong silence, or risk intimidation? (Marty had no choice but to turn state's evidence, he was in the top echelon.)

This story is not going to have a happy ending, with truth and justice for all. A portion of scientology is the CIA, with hundreds of 'beachheads' in numerous western countries, involving the many scientology buildings, worldwide. The CIA isn't worried about getting beat up by the state -- it's the other way around, they RAMROD the state, and the media, but not the Internet, not yet. The CIA may morph into other front groups, but they're not going away, regardless of any fascinating BS stories they come up with, and always trying to trample on free speech. They are the scum responsible for ruthlessly harassing people all these years. Don't fall for it, publish now, publish loudly, publish widely. Because it's the right thing to do.

And keep an eye out, for when those hundreds of empty scientology buildings worldwide start to fill up. If you think scientology-CIA 1.0 was bad, just wait for 2.0.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Originally posted by Lionheart
I know it is an unpopular thing to say, but people like Tommy Davis and David Miscavige are the worst victims of all. They are completely under Ron's Magic spell and are the current best Ron impersonators, that is why they are in the position they are. Spare a thought for the personal hell they have put themselves in (surrounded by enemies, just as LRH imagined he was!)


Tommy Davis may be 'under the magic spell' ... of David Miscavige but I don't believe for a moment that Miscavige is under any spell!

He appears to be a chancer of the worst kind, a greedy bully boy who grabbed the reins of the wrong horse and it is now galloping away with him and making him look very silly (as he clings there, trying not to fall off and waving his whip about).

:p

All this noise and mud flinging from various origins will not benefit scientology ... mud does stick. Let them get on with the mud bath, and in the end whatever is left will be fully exposed for all to see (and as long as new public in are kept to a minimum it will just die a natural death eventually).

:happydance:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
It's not unusual for thugs to piss each other off and I doubt seriously that Marty expects a 'lawsuit' from the Cult. Terril (and others) tend towards wishful thinking (and hero worship.) No, I don't think Marc's an opportunist. I do think he may be a little naive.

Zinj

Yes, indeed, about Terril. In fact, in some communications I've had with him, he's often expressed admiration of critics- hard line critics who don't like anything about Scn.

Somehow I'm betting you wouldn't call that naive or hero worship or pedestal whatsis. Why is that. I wonder.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Yes, indeed, about Terril. In fact, in some communications I've had with him, he's often expressed admiration of critics- hard line critics who don't like anything about Scn.

Somehow I'm betting you wouldn't call that naive or hero worship or pedestal whatsis. Why is that. I wonder.

Because it's not? If and when Terril (and others) have expressed pollyannish and simple minded adulation of 'saviors' in the 'Critic Community' I've at the very least felt uncomfortable and *sometimes*, when it seemed to be dangerously delusional, commented on it and attempted to infuse a little reality into the discussion. Over the past 15 years it's been a frequent problem, because so many people *are* heroes, but, at the same time also misplaced as Saviors or Leaders to be blindly followed. (Most of the objects of such fan clubs are themselves uncomfortable with the adulation and do their best to give a more realistic view.)

Even more pernicious are the frequent currents of 'Don't Attack Critics! or 'Don't Forward The Enemy Line!' or 'You're Doing OSA's Work if you are less than gushing over Our Leaders!'.

For the most part I just try to ignore my nausea and hope that the childlike fervor will pass with age and experience, but, sometimes I will comment on it which is either well received or not.

In this case though, we're talking about someone whose apparent desire is to *exploit* such naivete and both pander to it and promote it and, considering who the object of the adulation is and the blatant disinformation being sold with the package, I think it's a lot more potentially harmful than mere hero worship.

I have high respect for a lot of people I've met over the years and think they deserve all the credit they get for what sometimes *is* heroic effort. But, it's wise to look closely at the motivation and actuality of people actively *collecting* sheeple.

Zinj
 

anon2487

Patron with Honors
This story is not going to have a happy ending, with truth and justice for all. A portion of scientology is the CIA, with hundreds of 'beachheads' in numerous western countries, involving the many scientology buildings, worldwide. The CIA isn't worried about getting beat up by the state -- it's the other way around, they RAMROD the state, and the media, but not the Internet, not yet. The CIA may morph into other front groups, but they're not going away, regardless of any fascinating BS stories they come up with, and always trying to trample on free speech. They are the scum responsible for ruthlessly harassing people all these years. Don't fall for it, publish now, publish loudly, publish widely. Because it's the right thing to do.

And keep an eye out, for when those hundreds of empty scientology buildings worldwide start to fill up. If you think scientology-CIA 1.0 was bad, just wait for 2.0.
Er right.

Do you have any evidence of a single word of that?

[Personally, I've little doubt that Scientology has had "relationships" with intelligence services at various times, but that's an entirely different proposition from what you're suggesting. It's also based on evidence and reason.]
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I have high respect for a lot of people I've met over the years and think they deserve all the credit they get for what sometimes *is* heroic effort.

Zinj

Thank you, Zinj.

Coming from you this really means something. I did not know that you had these feelings for me, and, as always, I feel humbled by such gushing adulation.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Thank you, Zinj.

Coming from you this really means something. I did not know that you had these feelings for me, and, as always, I feel humbled by such gushing adulation.

I'm sorry I didn't single you out specifically Al, but, I certainly hold you in all due respect :)

Zinj
 
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