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Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

Discussion in 'MartyWorld' started by WildKat, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    I remember reading this story from many perspectives on this forum when I joined.. I also read Marty's book..good on everyone for all the growth! I was convinced Marty just wanted to take over..and who is to say what he was really doing in sessions at Casablanca, unless you attended one? Is he rewriting history? I don't know. There was a time I found him bullish & egotistical, self appointed savior making threats on YouTube to TC & DM.. Yeah, I read his words and felt he was painting himself as a hero..many many times over..he still has a bunch of questions I'd like to see him answer.

    but, I am so happy I have witnessed his evolution.. Here is to the rest of his answers coming out!
  2. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    :cheers: Cheers to Marty's continued growth, Misswog!

    I felt the same when I read it. Worse, since what was repeatedly told me by the other witnesses (Jeff and DC) was that John kept insisting he only wanted to talk to Diane and that Diane agreed to go speak with him. Marty (Mark) came running after him - unarmed - while John had a gun. Jeff Porter and DC both say Jeff knocked Mark down and told him to back off and get out of the way and he didn't.

    So Marty effectively cornered a violent man. Stupid stupid stupid! :duh:

    And this is what happens when untrained idiots think of themselves as warriors. Security could have called the police. That wouldn't even have been against COS policy at that point. They all wanted to leave John to the police. Except Marty/Mark. No, he pushed and chased and cornered him and John shot Diane.

    Ah well. Gotta run. :run: Nice seeing you and chatting today, Misswog! :wave:
  3. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    He still seems like he's trying to be a religious leader in this recent blog that reads like he's channeling LRH:

    Good vs. Evil
    Posted on April 5, 2015 by Mark C. Rathbun | 75 Comments

    Choosing a side and then obsessively resisting against another side causes one mental and spiritual dissonance. One doesn’t get relief from one’s dissonant self by changing sides and carrying on with resisting. Agreeing to resist and then resisting is the trap. Many a trap sells jazzed up forms of resistance. Inspection of the salesmen on either side of most dramatic conflicts shows close parallels to those whom they invite you to resist. Intuitive people can even perceive their similar exuded discordant wavelengths.

    An easy mark for resistance recruiters is someone who has been deeply conditioned to resist. Such folk are sitting ducks for re-enslavement by entrainment. Resisting against that which you once resisted for appeals to the denialist mind looking for return to the seeming comfortably numb stasis of two-valued thought. It is the lazy, short-sighted condition experienced by those practicing denialism.

    Both sides in denialist conflict depend upon one another for the continuation of their chosen crusade, in some cases even for their very identities. All the while what you consider of the other side is precisely what it considers of you. In the world of scientology this week while the post ‘Scientology’s Vortex of Hate’ was current, a prominent scientologist twittered that those interviewed in the documentary Going Clear were akin to ‘Nazis’ talking about Jews. Meanwhile, one of those alleged ‘nazis’ publicly dropped the same ‘N’ word on scientology twice. Two-valued logic thinking prevails: black vs. white, right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, God vs. the devil, America vs. the Nazis.

    It is a game where everybody ultimately loses. Into the matrix one goes joined with and thoroughly dependent upon his nemesis for his very continued being. One can even wind up difficult to distinguish from his enemy in terms of language and behaviors.

    Transcending is often accompanied by some discomfort and some new thinking; and that requires a tad of courage. The mechanics are similar to those employed in addiction rehabilitation. The way out of the matrix is not paved for the pack-minded weak. That is not to say it requires great effort. It does require some discipline to learn the skill of letting go.

    The simple minded on both extremes of the scientology ‘war’ will no doubt deal with this as denialists do with reason. It will likely be categorized with a label convenient to stopping thought or contemplation, like ‘a call to apathy’, or ‘lack of compassion’ or ‘an apology for the enemy.’ For those perhaps capable of looking beyond the most immediate emotional impulse, and appreciating nuance and paradox, I leave you with a passage from the Tao Te Ching.

    Nothing in the world is as soft and yielding as water.

    Yet for dissolving the hard and inflexible, nothing can surpass it.

    The soft overcomes the hard; the gentle overcomes the rigid.

    Everyone knows this is true, but few can put it into practice.

    Therefore the Master remains serene in the midst of sorrow.

    Evil cannot enter his heart.

    Because he has given up helping, he is people’s greatest help.

    True words seem paradoxical.
  4. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    "A County of Los Angeles Police Report filed Aug. 19, 1978, reports, “a suspect, tentatively I.D.’d as her husband, fired one shot through the driver’s side of the auto.” Diane died in Rathun’s arms; a shoulder along the Ventura Freeway claimed John’s decomposing corpse (a life taken by his own hands) a few days later."
  5. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Ughhh..I can't read that! I can't read him.. He is far more digestible in a face to face interview. IMO, Marty never met a thesaurus he didn't use.
  6. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh, I can't read his gobbledygoop description of being stuck way inside of the inside of a box inside a box inside of a box thinking. Makes me crazy to try to decipher it. :pullhair:
  7. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Right??!!! I stopped ages ago! But I like the interviews on Vice and he has done shit load of media since Going Clear.. I DO NOT read Marty, gives me a headache! I have listened to a bunch of radio and podcasts though.. Way more tolerable!
  8. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I'm not going to comment on that part, Smurf. These are the only parts I remember that I can definitely state:

    The tussle/accident happened at or coming out of the old staff parking lot on Catalina Street, which had been across from the complex. (IDK if they still own it, it was a separate little lot).

    There was an old security guard station on Catalina just north of the lot. That's where the other guards (Porter and DC) joined in. Marty's direct senior was Jeff Porter.

    Although the accident and threats and all happened on Catalina (which is where Jeff knocked down Mark after John threatened him with the gun - lots of EPF were around that day to hear it, too), someone drove the car with Diane further up the street and rounded the corner of Fountain Ave. While the other two security guards were still trying to catch up on foot, Mark, Diane and John were ahead of them. Which one was on foot and which ones were in the car is something I can't figure out.

    Andre Tabayoyon was on Berendo Street and just turning the corner of Berendo to Fountain where the car was stopped/parked at Fountain and Catalina when Diane was shot.

    Contradiction: Andre said the car was parked on the Scn side of the street, but then it would be facing the opposite way of where the tussle occurred. (Unless the car was stopped in the middle of the street.) But Andre said the car was specifically parked there. I remember this particularly, because I thought Andre was telling me a shore story at the time (we were both SO then) but maybe he wasn't?
    He certainly did see the mess immediately afterward and part of his job was to deal with these sort of Scn PR situations so who knows?

    Contradiction: JP and DC said Diane walked willingly with John (though at gunpoint) on Catalina St into her car, as he said he only wanted to talk to her. Marty pursued. DC and Jeff lost sight of the three when they turned the corner. From their description, it sounds like Diane was behind the wheel with John in passenger seat. John already had Diane.

    So did Marty catch up with the car on foot? Did he pull John out of the car? Or was it Marty who drove around the corner?

    There are contradictions, Smurf. Marty omits the entire street scene that occurred on Catalina St with the other two guards present, though he certainly mentions Diane's car there.

    So like other Scientology shore stories, this one stinks, too.
  9. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Another OT gets Alzheimer’s

    In reading the following, I suspect that Polly is either in a nursing home or has passed away, However, I, too, looked and found no record of the death or obituary.
    I saw this
    Remembering Diane Colletto, Who Would Have Been 60 Today
    Tony Ortega 4/05/2013
    CharleneHux > Observer • 2 years ago

    Here is a relevant snippet on Polly from that post and the original comment at Martys blog:
    (Note: The whole of his comment on John and Diane, long time friends, is worth reading, as well.

    "Warren Marston | June 15, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Reply

    Not sure but "several years ago" would suggest she became ill in 2010... She is listed as living in Los Angeles in some public directories until 2008. She was alive and active 10 years ago when she wrote this:

    Jewish Journal
    April 7, 2005 | 8:00 pm

    Polly S Hertz address search

    Polly's Birth record

    United States Public Records

    Polly S Hertz
    United States Public Records
    Name: Polly S Hertz
    Residence Date: 01 Apr 2008-01 Jul 2008
    Residence Place: Los Angeles, California, United States
    Birth Date: 08 Sep 1921
    Phone Number: (323) 664-8687
    Phone Number Recorded Date: 01 Jul 2008
    Address: 1055 N Kingsley Dr # 510
    Address Continued: Los Angeles, California 90029
    Record Number: 1357489479

    Citing this Record
    "United States Public Records, 1970-2009," database, FamilySearch ( : accessed 17 April 2015), Polly S Hertz, Residence, Los Angeles, California, United States; a third party aggregator of publicly available information.

    Polly Schwartz Hertz
    United States Public Records
    Name: Polly Schwartz Hertz
    Also Known As: Polly S-Independent H Hertz
    Residence Date: 23 Nov 2004
    Residence Place: Los Angeles, California, United States
    Birth Date: 08 Sep 1921
    Phone Number: (323) 664-8687
    Phone Number Recorded Date: 25 Mar 2008
    Address: 1570 N Edgemont St
    Address Continued: Los Angeles, California 90027
    Address Date: 23 Nov 2004
    2nd Address: 1570 N Edgemont St Apt 307
    2nd Address Continued: Los Angeles, California 90027
    2nd Address Date: 01 Oct 1992-25 Mar 2008
    3rd Address: 909 N Bonnie Brae St # 209
    3rd Address Continued: Los Angeles, California 90026
    3rd Address Date: 01 Dec 1975-13 Nov 2000
    Possible Relatives: John F Hertz, Lawyer Hertz, Mary Jane H Jewell
    Record Number: 134203163

    Citing this Record
    "United States Public Records, 1970-2009," database, FamilySearch ( : accessed 17 April 2015), Polly Schwartz Hertz, Residence, Los Angeles, California, United States; a third party aggregator of publicly available information.

    Polly Ann Schwartz 1930 census age 8
  10. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    'Gottabrain' seems to have alot of info of what happened. He says Marty has fabricated facts to make himself look heroic, when he was simply a "newbie guard" for the cult.

    Who is the 'DC' you refer to that was trying with Jeff Porter, to assist Diane?
  11. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Thanks, Smurf.

    DC has been out of Scn since about '79. Many of us know him by name but I do not wish to post his name on the forum. Happy to PM you separately. He is not involved with Scn or the exes at all.

    The guard station always had two guards posted, every night. DC and Jeff Porter were posted that night - one could SEE the staff parking lot from the security guard station. They would not have missed this happening practically in front of their noses. They were there. The kerfluffle happened and they were part of it.

    Yes, I believe Marty lied about a great deal of this. I've edited a lot of what was written in the past because the stories just don't jive. But I'll leave it to you. I've tried to figure it out on my own and not gotten far. Will PM you.
  12. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Marty's version has always struck me as a little too lucky. Though if the guy was going mental from being declared, maybe Marty's lucidity really was enough to save his own life.

    Either way, the real criminal here was Hubbard for coming up with his batshit crazy ethics and breaking a guy down to the point of killing his wife. Whether Marty's account is self-flattering is a silly side show.
  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I agree, NoName.

    It was tragic. What John Colletto was put through was tragic. Diane was convinced to divorce him because she was told he was an SP and on the RPF. He was a broken man. IDK about any violent history - the only one who says this is Mark/Marty, and his history wasn't any better, either. We don't know that's true. We know the RPF and Scientology broke John Colletto though. Both he and Diane were victims. There are no winners in Scn.
  14. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Well, IIIX is, according to my lessons in Latin from many decades ago, the clumsier but still valid Latin notation of VII (also Latin). They both stand for the number 7, but have different meanings in the cult? :wtf:
  15. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    the "X" in this instance stands for "expanded" .......and not ten.

    It was called OT III expanded....

    It was a actual OT Level....that is not offered these days.
  16. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I read somewhere, Marty wrote that he got into the Cult because he had a mentally ill brother...and wanted to study Hubbard as a method to help him.

    I don't know anything about Marty's time line in the Cult in relation to his brother....

    But now, Just Sheila, posts above that Marty directly joined the GO....

    It just doesn't make any sense to me....

    I would assume that if Marty had a mentally ill brother....that at one time or another....he would have been involved with some Psychiatrist dealing with his brother.....or his family did.

    That IMO would make Marty an Illegal PC....and I just don't see how he would have been acceptable to the GO or the a recruit....??

    I really don't care....just seems odd.

    If Marty wanted to study Hubbard to try to help his brother.....why join the GO....why not join to become an auditor...?
  17. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    Why the hell not? Think of all that revenue DM is missing out on... :biggrin:
  18. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I agree, Leland.

    Marty/Mark was an angry man back then. Everyone was promoting joining the TTC, and he could have as easily joined ASHO or AOLA or Flag to be an auditor, but he chose the GO.
  19. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I've wondered from time to time if there is any relationship between the "Personality Test" and what that particular person might or might not be recruited for.

    I know its a long stretch....and probably, if there was anything to that would have been brought up before...But I've wondered.
  20. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Oh wow, Leland, nobody has ever asked that before.

    You think like a creative person. You must be an artist or something. :biggrin:

    Actually, there ARE correlations between the OCA and job occupations. There were original advices on this stuff that weren't written by Hubbard and weren't in PLs but were like instructions that came with whomever designed the OCA. I saw them back in the 70s. They are long gone now.

    I don't remember much of it, but I remember the ideal salesperson had low responsibility (like in the urgent help zone, lol) and high control.

    The funny thing is, that's also how a criminal tests. :hysterical:

    I'm sure GO and security people would have high aggression.