Marty Rathbun: thoughts on Scientology and spirituality
- Thread starter CommunicatorIC
- Start date
Anonycat
Crusader
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Summary?
Summary?
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Best thing I've . . . wait a minute. Am I in MartyWorld here?
Yes.
So yea, best thing I've heard from Marty. Some good advice.
A lot of people on this board are doing and have been doing just what
he's talking about.
I'll give him props for that one. Give the devil his due.
Best thing I've . . . wait a minute. Am I in MartyWorld here?
Yes. So yea, best thing I've heard from Marty. Some good advice.
A lot of people on this board are doing and have been doing just what
he's talking about.
I'll give him props for that one. Give the devil his due.
ChurchOfCylontology
Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
There are better things I'd rather do with 22 minutes but I commend anyone that can sit through that without [hurling, laughing, chortling, sleeping, snoring, choking] (pick one).
Although I do see improvement in his "philosophies" I am still not impressed until he really starts taking actions to right his wrongs or starts to serve time. It's been more than five years since he's been out and we've not seen much except for empty promises, LRH arrogance, and half truths. Words are cheap.
There are better things I'd rather do with 22 minutes but I commend anyone that can sit through that without [hurling, laughing, chortling, sleeping, snoring, choking] (pick one).
Although I do see improvement in his "philosophies" I am still not impressed until he really starts taking actions to right his wrongs or starts to serve time. It's been more than five years since he's been out and we've not seen much except for empty promises, LRH arrogance, and half truths. Words are cheap.
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
This is all very nice but he still fails even to begin to address the decades he spent personally abusing and harassing others in zealous obedience to a higher power.
After all, this guy wasn't just some SO staff member doing admin work in a closet somewhere.
Wake me if there is any movement on that issue.
Mark A. Baker
This is all very nice but he still fails even to begin to address the decades he spent personally abusing and harassing others in zealous obedience to a higher power.
After all, this guy wasn't just some SO staff member doing admin work in a closet somewhere.
Wake me if there is any movement on that issue.
Mark A. Baker
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
I'd like to believe that but, well . . .
I remain to be convinced that the exploitation of "reality" on other religious ideas as a vector for inserting "acceptable truths" about Scientology is not KSW. Its like saying "Xenu is a metaphor". Its early days in Marty's apparent about-face and the so-called "schism". But, as mentioned, I'd like to believe it.
Still, I approve of his referring others to that alternate but less severe mind-fuck Integral Theory. While nothing like a philosopher, Ken Wilber has done some interesting analysis of other religious beliefs. The more Scientologists look into Wilber's writings, ostensibly seeking parallels, the more they will identify the antecedents from which L Ron Hubbard plagiarised concepts. That has to be a good thing.
I'd like to believe that but, well . . .
I remain to be convinced that the exploitation of "reality" on other religious ideas as a vector for inserting "acceptable truths" about Scientology is not KSW. Its like saying "Xenu is a metaphor". Its early days in Marty's apparent about-face and the so-called "schism". But, as mentioned, I'd like to believe it.
Still, I approve of his referring others to that alternate but less severe mind-fuck Integral Theory. While nothing like a philosopher, Ken Wilber has done some interesting analysis of other religious beliefs. The more Scientologists look into Wilber's writings, ostensibly seeking parallels, the more they will identify the antecedents from which L Ron Hubbard plagiarised concepts. That has to be a good thing.
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Make that nearly ten years since Marty's (apparently) been out.
Make that nearly ten years since Marty's (apparently) been out.
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
my KoolAid is better than other KoolAid because I understand Scientology from within a wider context of Eastern philosophy - Scientology only went bad because of the opposition of "establishment" interests which resulted in far too many defence mechanisms being built in - Scientology is still a valid psyco-therapy that can help a person reach higher states of consciousness but gains are hampered by the defence mechanisms generating far too much Ying and not enough Yang - its okay to talk about these things in relation to Scientology because L Ron Hubbard paid homage to Tao Te Ching - in fact, Hubbard suggested Scientology is predicated on these sorts of ideas - quantum mechanics is now coming around to these sorts of ideas - I'm so succesful with this approach I'm too busy to finish my book -
my KoolAid is better than other KoolAid because I understand Scientology from within a wider context of Eastern philosophy - Scientology only went bad because of the opposition of "establishment" interests which resulted in far too many defence mechanisms being built in - Scientology is still a valid psyco-therapy that can help a person reach higher states of consciousness but gains are hampered by the defence mechanisms generating far too much Ying and not enough Yang - its okay to talk about these things in relation to Scientology because L Ron Hubbard paid homage to Tao Te Ching - in fact, Hubbard suggested Scientology is predicated on these sorts of ideas - quantum mechanics is now coming around to these sorts of ideas - I'm so succesful with this approach I'm too busy to finish my book -
JoeLarabell
Patron
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Hold on... On the surface Scientology went bad because those at the top got addicted to the power and the money. But the seeds were laid when Hubbard decided that he was the only one who understood what was going on and made it unsafe for anyone else to think for themselves and/or to hold an opinion contrary to "source". It started with the PTS cruft and the heavy ethics that stemmed therefrom. Even if you saw something that shouldn't be, you were taking a huge chance bringing it up because someone could silence you by deciding you must be PTS or, worse, an SP. Once you discourage people from actually thinking about what they're doing, you can pull all sorts of wool over their eyes and, as long as the stuff is still working for them, or at least seems to be, they'll go along as if nothing happened.
If I had to pick a "why" out of my butt, I'd go with PTS/SP tech as the beginning of the end. Granted... there were some useful observations and practices in the original material. But I recall the words of a college professor of mine who used to say, with tongue firmly planted in cheek: "If two aspirin are good, twenty must certainly be even better." When dealing with people's lives, there's no better tool than straightforward observation and creative thinking. But "Standard Tech" drums that out of you right from the get-go.
Hold on... On the surface Scientology went bad because those at the top got addicted to the power and the money. But the seeds were laid when Hubbard decided that he was the only one who understood what was going on and made it unsafe for anyone else to think for themselves and/or to hold an opinion contrary to "source". It started with the PTS cruft and the heavy ethics that stemmed therefrom. Even if you saw something that shouldn't be, you were taking a huge chance bringing it up because someone could silence you by deciding you must be PTS or, worse, an SP. Once you discourage people from actually thinking about what they're doing, you can pull all sorts of wool over their eyes and, as long as the stuff is still working for them, or at least seems to be, they'll go along as if nothing happened.
If I had to pick a "why" out of my butt, I'd go with PTS/SP tech as the beginning of the end. Granted... there were some useful observations and practices in the original material. But I recall the words of a college professor of mine who used to say, with tongue firmly planted in cheek: "If two aspirin are good, twenty must certainly be even better." When dealing with people's lives, there's no better tool than straightforward observation and creative thinking. But "Standard Tech" drums that out of you right from the get-go.
Balthasar
Patron Meritorious
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Yes, Marty is becoming a "squirrel". But what he doesn't realize is that he will have lots of competition out there
Basically Marty is hanging out a shingle offering his own cocktail of tech. Who the hell would go to Marty for little bit higher up now?
Miscavige is much smarter than Marty and he should have hung around DM much longer! That way he would have had additional time to learn how to monopolize "squirrel activities" so as to avoid competition. There is no free ride in squirrel world. Quite unlike to what he was used to under his mentor David Miscavige.
I thought Marty would be much smarter! He very much disappointed me with everything he did so far. Not that I wasn't expecting much of him. Just a decent book maybe, not this boring piece he never would grow tired of promoting at every opportunity. A bit of back bone and more hardcore attitude maybe. Really not much - just a bit more stylish going under, more appropriate to a former 2nd in command!
Marty then was given a second opportunity to learn from Rinder who never made such a fuss about his personality and is also way smarter than Marty. Rinder carried on with his own life whereas Marty tried to lure as many as possible into his world of illusional grandeur with him being the leader of a new Indie movement.
Also of course, Miscavige disappointed me in a sense that he surrounded himself with such a wet mob like Marty in the first place.
Yes, Marty is becoming a "squirrel". But what he doesn't realize is that he will have lots of competition out there
Basically Marty is hanging out a shingle offering his own cocktail of tech. Who the hell would go to Marty for little bit higher up now?
Miscavige is much smarter than Marty and he should have hung around DM much longer! That way he would have had additional time to learn how to monopolize "squirrel activities" so as to avoid competition. There is no free ride in squirrel world. Quite unlike to what he was used to under his mentor David Miscavige.
I thought Marty would be much smarter! He very much disappointed me with everything he did so far. Not that I wasn't expecting much of him. Just a decent book maybe, not this boring piece he never would grow tired of promoting at every opportunity. A bit of back bone and more hardcore attitude maybe. Really not much - just a bit more stylish going under, more appropriate to a former 2nd in command!
Marty then was given a second opportunity to learn from Rinder who never made such a fuss about his personality and is also way smarter than Marty. Rinder carried on with his own life whereas Marty tried to lure as many as possible into his world of illusional grandeur with him being the leader of a new Indie movement.
Also of course, Miscavige disappointed me in a sense that he surrounded himself with such a wet mob like Marty in the first place.
Last edited:
SpecialFrog
Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
I think Infinite was channelling Marty.
Seriously, though. While I'm glad Marty has gone full squirrel I wish he'd actually try and do some serious training before trying to counsel people. Interestingly enough, if he isn't a proper Scientologist any more it seems like he doesn't have the "religious" protection for his unlicensed therapy.
I think Infinite was channelling Marty.
Seriously, though. While I'm glad Marty has gone full squirrel I wish he'd actually try and do some serious training before trying to counsel people. Interestingly enough, if he isn't a proper Scientologist any more it seems like he doesn't have the "religious" protection for his unlicensed therapy.
Andtheyalllived
Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
My husband is a cop. He walked by while I was watching this video. Stopped, watched for 30 seconds, and said "That dude's lyin' his ass off."
My husband is a cop. He walked by while I was watching this video. Stopped, watched for 30 seconds, and said "That dude's lyin' his ass off."
Orglodyte
Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
This family photo from the front page of Marty's blog is interesting. Mosey looks relaxed and real. Marty's smile, eyes and eyebrows are conveying three different messages. If I had Marty's expression on my face, I would be:
a) Experiencing cognitive dissonance,
b) Just peaking on my triple latte,
c) Proud of my new dental work, or
d) Doing my impression of Bill Murray impersonating the groundhog.
Scientology teaches people how to lie to themselves, and it's fascinating to watch Marty as he works at unraveling the tangled web he wove.
BTW I vote for Bill Murray to play Marty in the eventual movie.
This family photo from the front page of Marty's blog is interesting. Mosey looks relaxed and real. Marty's smile, eyes and eyebrows are conveying three different messages. If I had Marty's expression on my face, I would be:
a) Experiencing cognitive dissonance,
b) Just peaking on my triple latte,
c) Proud of my new dental work, or
d) Doing my impression of Bill Murray impersonating the groundhog.
Scientology teaches people how to lie to themselves, and it's fascinating to watch Marty as he works at unraveling the tangled web he wove.
BTW I vote for Bill Murray to play Marty in the eventual movie.
Last edited:
A.K. Myers
Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
This is all reminiscent of the heady days when I left the cult
back in the early eighties and went to work as an auditor in
the AAC.
The main selling point was "standard tech." We had LRH's
own personal auditor who was the very embodiment of tech
purity. We set up orgs that ran on "green on white" and HGCs
that ran on "red on white."
People were leaving the cult in droves and most of them
came to the AACs because they knew that the tech was
standard and much less expensive.
The only rub was we were all free to look at other schools
of thought. As time went on some of that "wog data" crept
into the practice. After the cult "destroyed the AAC," it turned
into independent practices, some of which prospered and
some of which faded into obscurity. All of them had taken on
"non-standard" practices to some degree.
Without "the green on white" brand of indentured servitude
it became alright to walk away, or take up other practices.
KSW was an early casualty and without it, the door was open
to all forms of alter-is.
Now I see this happening with Marty's crowd. Perhaps he is
just a bit slower in waking up, but he is being exposed to
alternate viewpoints about the tech and, more importantly,
the sanctity of El Ron Flubbard.
Most of the KSW crowd are those newly out. Now that they
are free to look, they will eventually wise up too.
It takes years to come to the conclusion that the tech is
complete bullshit and Flubbard was nothing but a con man.
The process is slow but, I believe, Marty is starting to turn
in that direction.
This is all reminiscent of the heady days when I left the cult
back in the early eighties and went to work as an auditor in
the AAC.
The main selling point was "standard tech." We had LRH's
own personal auditor who was the very embodiment of tech
purity. We set up orgs that ran on "green on white" and HGCs
that ran on "red on white."
People were leaving the cult in droves and most of them
came to the AACs because they knew that the tech was
standard and much less expensive.
The only rub was we were all free to look at other schools
of thought. As time went on some of that "wog data" crept
into the practice. After the cult "destroyed the AAC," it turned
into independent practices, some of which prospered and
some of which faded into obscurity. All of them had taken on
"non-standard" practices to some degree.
Without "the green on white" brand of indentured servitude
it became alright to walk away, or take up other practices.
KSW was an early casualty and without it, the door was open
to all forms of alter-is.
Now I see this happening with Marty's crowd. Perhaps he is
just a bit slower in waking up, but he is being exposed to
alternate viewpoints about the tech and, more importantly,
the sanctity of El Ron Flubbard.
Most of the KSW crowd are those newly out. Now that they
are free to look, they will eventually wise up too.
It takes years to come to the conclusion that the tech is
complete bullshit and Flubbard was nothing but a con man.
The process is slow but, I believe, Marty is starting to turn
in that direction.
Lulu Belle
Moonbat
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
This is very interesting. I'd love to hear more about what the AAC was like.
I was in the Sea Org when they came into existence. I know managment was totally freaked out about it.
I was secretly very curious about it, though I would have been crucified if I had ever let on about my interest.
This is all reminiscent of the heady days when I left the cult
back in the early eighties and went to work as an auditor in
the AAC.
The main selling point was "standard tech." We had LRH's
own personal auditor who was the very embodiment of tech
purity. We set up orgs that ran on "green on white" and HGCs
that ran on "red on white."
People were leaving the cult in droves and most of them
came to the AACs because they knew that the tech was
standard and much less expensive.
The only rub was we were all free to look at other schools
of thought. As time went on some of that "wog data" crept
into the practice. After the cult "destroyed the AAC," it turned
into independent practices, some of which prospered and
some of which faded into obscurity. All of them had taken on
"non-standard" practices to some degree.
Without "the green on white" brand of indentured servitude
it became alright to walk away, or take up other practices.
KSW was an early casualty and without it, the door was open
to all forms of alter-is.
Now I see this happening with Marty's crowd. Perhaps he is
just a bit slower in waking up, but he is being exposed to
alternate viewpoints about the tech and, more importantly,
the sanctity of El Ron Flubbard.
Most of the KSW crowd are those newly out. Now that they
are free to look, they will eventually wise up too.
It takes years to come to the conclusion that the tech is
complete bullshit and Flubbard was nothing but a con man.
The process is slow but, I believe, Marty is starting to turn
in that direction.
This is very interesting. I'd love to hear more about what the AAC was like.
I was in the Sea Org when they came into existence. I know managment was totally freaked out about it.
I was secretly very curious about it, though I would have been crucified if I had ever let on about my interest.
Terril park
Sponsor
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Wishfull thinking. Most in the FZ remain scientologists, though some don't.
Most practitioners remain pretty standard, but often gain some flexibility. For
example embracing John McMasters view to PTS handling, which in fact LRH
himself did in his last 1975 lectures.
This is all reminiscent of the heady days when I left the cult
back in the early eighties and went to work as an auditor in
the AAC.
The main selling point was "standard tech." We had LRH's
own personal auditor who was the very embodiment of tech
purity. We set up orgs that ran on "green on white" and HGCs
that ran on "red on white."
People were leaving the cult in droves and most of them
came to the AACs because they knew that the tech was
standard and much less expensive.
The only rub was we were all free to look at other schools
of thought. As time went on some of that "wog data" crept
into the practice. After the cult "destroyed the AAC," it turned
into independent practices, some of which prospered and
some of which faded into obscurity. All of them had taken on
"non-standard" practices to some degree.
Without "the green on white" brand of indentured servitude
it became alright to walk away, or take up other practices.
KSW was an early casualty and without it, the door was open
to all forms of alter-is.
Now I see this happening with Marty's crowd. Perhaps he is
just a bit slower in waking up, but he is being exposed to
alternate viewpoints about the tech and, more importantly,
the sanctity of El Ron Flubbard.
Most of the KSW crowd are those newly out. Now that they
are free to look, they will eventually wise up too.
It takes years to come to the conclusion that the tech is
complete bullshit and Flubbard was nothing but a con man.
The process is slow but, I believe, Marty is starting to turn
in that direction.
Wishfull thinking. Most in the FZ remain scientologists, though some don't.
Most practitioners remain pretty standard, but often gain some flexibility. For
example embracing John McMasters view to PTS handling, which in fact LRH
himself did in his last 1975 lectures.
Freeminds
Bitter defrocked apostate
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Alright, so Marty's lying. That's 100% standard Scientology tech, at least. Marty lies, bears shit in the woods, etc. etc.
The real revelation for me was... doesn't Marty look old, all of a sudden?
Alright, so Marty's lying. That's 100% standard Scientology tech, at least. Marty lies, bears shit in the woods, etc. etc.
The real revelation for me was... doesn't Marty look old, all of a sudden?
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
Correction, TP: most freezone practitioners claim themselves to be "standard tech".
They differ greatly in opinions about each other. This of course stems from the uncomfortable fact that "standard tech" itself is not clearly and unambiguously defined in any meaningful way, i.e. one that could be measured.
FWIW, personally I don't have a problem with that. But many of the more strident freezoners, especially among the "loyalist" factions, are completely flummoxed by that simple fact.
Mark A. Baker
Correction, TP: most freezone practitioners claim themselves to be "standard tech".
They differ greatly in opinions about each other. This of course stems from the uncomfortable fact that "standard tech" itself is not clearly and unambiguously defined in any meaningful way, i.e. one that could be measured.
FWIW, personally I don't have a problem with that. But many of the more strident freezoners, especially among the "loyalist" factions, are completely flummoxed by that simple fact.
Mark A. Baker
degraded being
Sponsor
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
:
:
I liked the setting. So Tao.
Be here Tao.
Actually he is not too far off an Eckhart Tolle type thing.
I hope he tries that...just squint his eyes a bit, a little hunch of the shoulders......
:
:
I liked the setting. So Tao.
Be here Tao.
Actually he is not too far off an Eckhart Tolle type thing.
I hope he tries that...just squint his eyes a bit, a little hunch of the shoulders......
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."
If I have one regret it is that I did not make the opportunity to take better advantage of the AAC in Santa Barbara while it was still open. I was occupied with friends operating elsewhere at the time. Yet, I was always highly impressed with the AAC community on my fores there, whether on business or otherwise. I had always intended to do so, and then they were forced to close.
Mark A. Baker
This is all reminiscent of the heady days when I left the cult
back in the early eighties and went to work as an auditor in
the AAC.
The main selling point was "standard tech." We had LRH's
own personal auditor who was the very embodiment of tech
purity. We set up orgs that ran on "green on white" and HGCs
that ran on "red on white."
People were leaving the cult in droves and most of them
came to the AACs because they knew that the tech was
standard and much less expensive.
The only rub was we were all free to look at other schools
of thought. As time went on some of that "wog data" crept
into the practice. After the cult "destroyed the AAC," it turned
into independent practices, some of which prospered and
some of which faded into obscurity. All of them had taken on
"non-standard" practices to some degree.
Without "the green on white" brand of indentured servitude
it became alright to walk away, or take up other practices.
KSW was an early casualty and without it, the door was open
to all forms of alter-is.
Now I see this happening with Marty's crowd. Perhaps he is
just a bit slower in waking up, but he is being exposed to
alternate viewpoints about the tech and, more importantly,
the sanctity of El Ron Flubbard.
Most of the KSW crowd are those newly out. Now that they
are free to look, they will eventually wise up too.
It takes years to come to the conclusion that the tech is
complete bullshit and Flubbard was nothing but a con man.
The process is slow but, I believe, Marty is starting to turn
in that direction.
If I have one regret it is that I did not make the opportunity to take better advantage of the AAC in Santa Barbara while it was still open. I was occupied with friends operating elsewhere at the time. Yet, I was always highly impressed with the AAC community on my fores there, whether on business or otherwise. I had always intended to do so, and then they were forced to close.
Mark A. Baker
Similar threads
