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Marty Rathbun: thoughts on Scientology and spirituality

Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

... Because of that, I decided to swing through Santa Barbara on the way home. I visited the AAC. The ARC was high and the people
seemed very relaxed. As I was leaving I met Sarge walking up the
drive. The AAC Palo Alto opened shortly thereafter. Several other
AACs opened up in other locations. ...

Yeah, I know. I was involved on the fringes. In retrospect I'd liked to have spent more time at the AAC itself. Water under the bridge.


Mark A. Baker
 
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

Marty is evolving, slowly, out of the Scientology maze..... he's no different in this than many who left, who still believed until they read the facts; or who left CoS and then went to the FZ and walked away, knowing with more certainty that all the glitters is not gold.

I'd rather have him looking at Taoism, than only at Scientology. At least he's looking and agreeing that Scientology is not 100% the way out. I think people expect too much of him, too soon. Better to hope he continues on this path, and learns from his mistakes and actions ( and hopefully takes responsibility for the things he's done to upset or harm others), than to tear him down while he works on a better understanding out of the maze. I suspect some people will listen to him and perhaps start looking outside the Scientology crap. It can only come to more good then bad, the way I see it.

Spot on! :clap:


Mark A. Baker
 

Andtheyalllived

Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

Originally Posted by Andtheyalllived
My husband is a cop. He walked by while I was watching this video. Stopped, watched for 30 seconds, and said "That dude's lyin' his ass off."

MOAR, PLEASE ! What are the 'tells"?


The part my husband observed was toward the end, around where Marty discusses his book (or the lack thereof).


I asked him today what the signs are in general, and he rattled some off:
Constant licking of the lips, added words as a stalling tactic.


Gestures that go in front of the body (defensive) rather than to the side which is physically more comfortable.


Stiffness of the head and neck


Shifting eyes that go to the left in particular ... That indicates that the brain is constructing an image or a sound, or as detectives call it, "making shit up."
 

Andtheyalllived

Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

Better to hope he continues on this path, and learns from his mistakes and actions ( and hopefully takes responsibility for the things he's done to upset or harm others), than to tear him down while he works on a better understanding out of the maze.

I find it very difficult to keep my eye on that ball (give him time to evolve, do some good, etc) when, far from taking responsibility or making amends, he continues the low-level abuse of anyone who dares to disagree with him.

He has relentlessly discredited everyone from David Mayo to the latest blog commenter ... With a slash and burn arrogance that I find almost scary, given his past. Or maybe there are many people here who are way kinder or more optimistic than I.
 
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

I find it very difficult to keep my eye on that ball (give him time to evolve, do some good, etc) when, far from taking responsibility or making amends, he continues the low-level abuse of anyone who dares to disagree with him.

He has relentlessly discredited everyone from David Mayo to the latest blog commenter ... With a slash and burn arrogance that I find almost scary, given his past. Or maybe there are many people here who are way kinder or more optimistic than I.

Keep in mind, if he were a better person he wouldn't be in such a great need to evolve and the process would be quicker. :)

Evolution is a slow process. People take their own time getting there and just because he still behaves like an @ss doesn't mean he may not be improving as a person, however glacially.

Best to do is to counter any false or abusive claims he makes with facts and not rants, and leave him to process at his own rate.


Mark A. Baker
 
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

The part my husband observed was toward the end, around where Marty discusses his book (or the lack thereof). ...

Well clearly the book is a cause of stress in his life at present and being asked point blank when he is going to "reveal the truth about lrh" can't be any less stressful.


Mark A. Baker :coolwink:
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology" [Marty post: "Ron the Integral Thinker"]

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/ron-the-integral-thinker/
Ron the Integral Thinker

Posted on March 15, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 3 Comments

I finally got around to watching several of the interviews of Phil Spickler that are posted on You Tube. What a breath of fresh air. A wise man who evolved through Scientology and lived long enough to speak about it with measure, intelligence, compassion and hard won experience. Clearly, Phil doesn’t have a horse in the race nor any agenda other than sharing his experience and what he took from it for the purpose of helping others. I am including one video in particular here where he and I share some observations. I am going to tell a back story to demonstrate why I think it speaks to Phil’s credibility and teaches an important lesson about Scientology. Phil and I have never met, spoken nor corresponded.

For the past several months I have been studying sources that L. Ron Hubbard once credited as being influential on his thinking. Several of the critical ones he later eschewed and effectively denied had any connection or relationship to the development of Dianetics and Scientology. From my reading, it appeared to me that some indeed had little influence. That was particularly true for some of the more sensational ones that certain journalists have obsessed with because it made good copy, such as Aleister Crowley (note: in my final analysis though, Crowley’s influence was a dastardly one). However, after reading Alfred Korzybski, the founder of General Semantics, I found far more influence than Ron ever let onto, even if he consistently made more references to Korzybski than just about anyone else.

Korzybski’s 1933 opus Science and Sanity is as close to a template for Dianetics as exists anywhere. Science and Sanity is a 900 page foundation for the creation of a “Science of Man.” Korzybski finds the underlying principle aberration of the human mind is ‘identification.’ He isolates one of the most important foundational skills to develop as that of differentiation, which he calls ‘to distinguish.’ He begins by establishing the need for the use of infinity logic, and to eliminate two-valued logic and the belief in absolutes. Being the first general semanticist he puts extreme importance on knowing all definitions of words, and emphasizes the importance of creating an entirely new nomenclature. Central to a ‘science of man’ is revolutionizing the science of communication. He is the one writer I have ever read whose tone and voice closely resembles Ron’s. He repeatedly emphasizes, with unrestrained vehemence, the need to reject much of what has come before: scholarship, institutional education, mental health profession givens, politics. He even preaches a heavy disdain for ‘democracy.’ That was the extent of my comparison by the time I ran into Phil’s talk below. He identifies another parallel between Korsybski and LRH that is probably more important than any of those I have noted.

I found the several videos of Phil that I have watched (the 5 part series and the 6 part series) to be chock full of credible information given in a credible manner. I chose the one segment below to introduce the idea that Ron was indeed influenced by his learning – and did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology, as miraculous as his discoveries were. Though some might bristle at the suggestion his discoveries were ever represented in such wise, I believe such a reaction would be born out of denialism. It is critical for growth and transcendence to understand that the technologies of Dianetics and Scientology were evolved out 10,000 years of evolution in thought that preceded them. Unless of course one desires to regress by holding to the idea one can, or must, cling to that which is already written to the exclusion of any other evolved or new original thought. L. Ron Hubbard applied Integral Theory decades before Integral Theory was even conceived of. And I agree with Phil’s assessment of and attitude about Ron, he is a hero for accomplishing what he did, particularly in the environment in which he did so. At the end of the day, I believe what I am noting here, in combination with what Phil talks about, are validations of the credibility of Ron’s work.

[video=youtube_share;Muc4PUR6PZ4]http://youtu.be/Muc4PUR6PZ4[/video]

Watch the rest of Phil’s talks when you get the chance. The ones I have watched are poignant and contain rich history and observations we all could learn from.

Thanks to Tatiana for having the foresight and for expending the time and effort to capture Phil on video and make it available.

Thanks to Phil for demonstrating that study and practice of Scientology can contribute to our evolution into wise folks.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/ron-the-integral-thinker/#comment-258796
30080c4687a97a3e9e0c3033d31e967c
Tatiana Baklanova | March 15, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Reply

I could not be happier to see you Marty forwarding the video-messages of Phil! Thank you from the bottom of my heart!! Seen this happening reassures me once again that Scientology works and communication flowing freely does dissolves the ridges between people, uniting us into a biger and stronger group!
icon_smile.gif


All videos of Phil, his articles, paintings and more can be found on Phil Spickler’s website “From Stanford With Love” at http://community.freezone-tech.info/phil-spickler

The comments left on Phil’s website are forwarded to Phil’s e-mail, and he does answers some privatly by e-mail, but sure appriciates them all!

Thank you again, Marty! You made my day!
icon_smile.gif
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Next re-positioning target for MR:
Find many horses for himself to ride and share the load.
:eyeroll:

ben_hur_0.jpg

 

Mojo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology" [Marty post: "Ron the Integral Thinker"]

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/ron-the-integral-thinker/

"I chose the one segment below to introduce the idea that Ron was indeed influenced by his learning – and did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology, as miraculous as his discoveries were".

And there is the rub, for me. I have watched a few of Phil's videos and agree the man is good hearted well intended and indeed, wise. However, reading Marty's "as miraculous as his (Hubbards) discoveries were" is akin to hearing fingernails scratching across a black board.

WHAT MIRACULOUS DISCOVERIES MARTY?

Let's see, perfect recall, no, physical immunity to the common cold, no, intellectual prowess unlike anything ever seen in the world, no. No, No, No (across the board, or, bridge).

Now then, finding a parking space, yes! Sitting at a red light that turns green. Yes! Feeling like the room is well, brighter? yes! But these are not miraculous events/discoveries Marty. These are delusional excuses for the absence of miraculous discoveries. If the science of scientology were duplicatable in the world of scientists Marty's claim of such discoveries as being miraculous would be miraculous. But they are not, have not, and will not be duplicated. For the simple reason Hubbard was not writing science, Hubbard was writing science fiction and calling it science.

Appealing to ones ego under the guise of developing ones spiritual being is patently dishonest. And it is hardly the stuff the miraculous is made of.

I can only hope Marty is writing such blatant hyperbole for the sake of increasing his readership and not because he actually believes what he writes (ala Hubbard).

Mojo

ps: as a footnote I still find Marty's personal transformation (over say, the last few years) to be inspiring. Perhaps what is wanted and needed is more patience on my part.
 
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Andtheyalllived

Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

I can only hope Marty is writing such blatant hyperbole for the sake of increasing his readership and not because he actually believes what he writes (ala Hubbard).

Mojo

ps: as a footnote I still find Marty's personal transformation (over say, the last few years) to be inspiring. Perhaps what is wanted and needed is more patience on my part.

I feel the opposite - I hope he really believes it, so he's that means he's "decompressing" still, rather than cynically manipulating people for self-gain! With you on the patience, though... I keep thinking, "Really?? THAT's still the strain you're pushin'?"
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Next re-positioning target for MR:
Find many horses for himself to ride and share the load.
:eyeroll:

ben_hur_0.jpg



If Marty is just getting around to listening to Phil after all the time he has been out, well,

he's got some more researching to do.

I don't understand why somebody who comes out from the clutches of the corporate church doesn't really look and examine the critics viewpoint as well. Shit, hubbard in his mind controlling way even said to look to source. So why not investigate the critics as well. And to boot, this is called tone 4 like dude having the ability to view other viewpoints. And also like communications release - being able to talk to anybody about anything. But yah can't talk with a scientologist if you oppose their viewpoint - fuk'in aye bat shit crazy.

:confused2::confused2::confused2:
 
Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

:
:
My over active imagination see this:

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

and grotesue mental image pictures follow.

Ron was the conceiver non-immaculate, so who, or what, was on top? :omg:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology" [Marty post: "Ron the Integral Thinker"]

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/ron-the-integral-thinker/

It's funny that Marty is trying to push Crowley into the background, which is what Hubbard did in 1969, after the Times of London published a story connecting Hubbard to Jack Parsons, etc.

Crowley is definitely bad PR.

Korzybski is much more respectable.

Both the Crowley connection and the Korzybski connection have been well documented for decades.

Hubbard was profoundly influenced by Crowley. Crowley served as a relay point for a lot of old occult information and while Hubbard has a debt to Korzybski (whose information he exploited, and used to win people's confidence), he has a greater debt to Crowley.

I doubt if Hubbard had read much of Korzybski. However, in the 1940s, General Semantics had a popular following, including in science fiction circles, and Hubbard would attend gatherings of writers and participate in discussions, and probably asked quite a few questions. Hubbard's 2nd wife, Sara, also was a Korzybski enthusiast, and would sometimes read to her husband from Korzybski's works.

Hubbard most definitely did read Crowley, and had a fondness for Crowley's writings, and much of "basics" - from the early&mid 1950s - that Scientologists regard with awe, are recycled Crowley, which, in turn, was mostly recycled occult doctrine.

The idea that Scientology is the result of "10,000 years of thinking men," etc., is more PR. Hubbard drew from a few sources mostly, and the long lists of names - of great thinkers - from ages past, in books such as 'Science of Survival' and 'Scientology 8-8008', were vanity lists, presented to make Hubbard respectable and give Hubbard gravitas.

Still, baby steps are better than no steps at all.

So, carry on, Marty.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Brandy infused musings . . .

..

More and more, it seems, Marty is becoming less and less useful in the fight to bring justice to the cult. In fact, he is becoming increasing irrelevant to the overall Scientology conversation and just another ex-cult nutcase blethering in the wind. Bit like Spickler, really. No wonder there is "affinity" even though there's (apparently) been no meeting or dialogue between the pair.

And, yeah, Marty's very keen to DA the Crowley connection. One need only read through L Ron Hubbard's "Affirmations" (AKA Admissions) to realise Crowley's influence on Hubbard's thinking and subsequent development of Scientology . . .

. . . Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler . . .

. . . the "Affirmations" are to understanding L Ron Hubbard as the Brainwashing Manual is to understanding Scientology.

What I find interesting in the "Affirmations" is the subtext which describes L Ron Hubbard's relationship with his "Guardian". It parallels Hubbard's own actions in that he presented as something of a Guardian but, of course, he eventually consumed those who came too close. Just as those who were drawn, as a moth to a flame, Hubbard swallowed their souls, so too was Hubbard's swallowed by his Guardian. IMHO, of course.

When I'm feeling generous towards Marty, I sometimes wonder if he hasn't actually worked it all out and seen Scientology for the Evil criminal mind fuck that it is. The transition in his posts from the early days to nowadays is something of a slow-motion, two-steps-forward-one-back path out of the mindfuck and Marty may well be leading his flock - gradiently, of course - to that inevitable and valid conclusion. If "the schism" isn't some mocked up PR caper, Marty has already lost some of his flock and must now slow the process back to a snail's pace in case others peel off from his KoolAid (now 99% Integrated!!!). Confirmation that this is the course Marty is on will come when he, finally, responds appropriately to Gerry Armstrong and, amongst other things, extends his thanks to Gerry for his work in delivering the "Affirmations" to public awareness. Frustratingly, if this observation of mine is correct, it means having to adopt Pooks' "retard theory" and accept Marty will never ball the human courage required to free far more people far more quickly from the mindfuck by coming clean on the attrociities he knows all about. Or it will be too late when he does.

Then again, perhaps Marty is working on bringing Tatiana and her European contacts into the fold while the Logan/Hall delivery team schmooze the OG who still sip the KoolAid. Such a cynical view would imply a pan-determined approach to a wider goal not yet revealed but, essentially, boils down to KSW.

Still, I have greater concerns just at the moment: I seem to be outta ice. BRB.
 
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Daisy

Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

Marty is evolving, slowly, out of the Scientology maze..... he's no different in this than many who left, who still believed until they read the facts; or who left CoS and then went to the FZ and walked away, knowing with more certainty that all the glitters is not gold.

I'd rather have him looking at Taoism, than only at Scientology. At least he's looking and agreeing that Scientology is not 100% the way out. I think people expect too much of him, too soon. Better to hope he continues on this path, and learns from his mistakes and actions ( and hopefully takes responsibility for the things he's done to upset or harm others), than to tear him down while he works on a better understanding out of the maze. I suspect some people will listen to him and perhaps start looking outside the Scientology crap. It can only come to more good then bad, the way I see it.

I get what you're saying.
Do you think the people who follow his blog are already partially out? And the people who are strictly ksw just are lagging behind?
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

NOPE.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/the-tao-of-scientology/#comments



<Snipped stuff, read for context>






Marty is implying that Rod is being deceptive about the reference. Anyone able to look it up? If I were a betting person, I'd say that Rod's quote is slightly off in some way, and Marty's using that (some misspelling or a few words) to imply the content is completely different and therefore is NOT VALID.

In other words, to CUT DOWN AND DISCREDIT him.

"Another one bites the dust"

Marty seems to get angry when he is questioned or in Scio speak "a button is pushed." People are getting thrown to the curb like they did in Scientology.

Actually I'm not convinced that is true. I am convinced he believes what he says. Putting it simply in my experience, TP, is not a "go to guy" for interesting and informative analysis, nor the greatest at differentiating nuances. Big on rumor and gossip. Not equally reliable on fact and logical inference.

He generally means what he says, but often what he says doesn't mean what he thinks. :coolwink:




For the purpose of clarification, the above are questions, possibly rhetorical, aimed at Terril. I've no connection with England. Did not do any actions with Ralph Hilton. And I've never been in a session situation with Pierre, among other things.

The way the post was written, first addressed in response to myself and then introducing the pointed questions, is suggestive that these somehow apply to me when in fact they do not. Hence my clarification.


Mark A. Baker

Some good points there.

The second part was directed at Terril. He seems to be in it for the gossip and banter and barely spends any time practicing the stuff he promotes.

You a squirrel?

Yes (in Scio terms) and an SP and very proud about both. Are you a squirrel? An SP?

We've been around for a very long time. Even longer than 1982 for example.

Probably outproducing CO$ re auditing and training

You have a problem with that?

Do you have any statistics to back this up? How many WDA in the UK? How many people in the UK currently studying a Div 4 course?

MOAR, PLEASE ! What are the 'tells"?

Elaborate if you can.

It might be that he is going in a better direction, as Veda states. However, he may have to go down a long way before he gets back up.
 
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

I find it very difficult to keep my eye on that ball (give him time to evolve, do some good, etc) when, far from taking responsibility or making amends, he continues the low-level abuse of anyone who dares to disagree with him.

He has relentlessly discredited everyone from David Mayo to the latest blog commenter ... With a slash and burn arrogance that I find almost scary, given his past. Or maybe there are many people here who are way kinder or more optimistic than I.

I'm with you. Apologies to David Mayo and others would be more convincing.
 
Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

:
:
I just watched some more of Marty's vid.

1. It is very much a repositioning spin. A very fundamental repositioning to the Tao. Who could argue against the Tao?

2. I still have this feeling that Wright's book was a pivot point for Marty. For all the negative positioning scientology had up to that point, Wright's book made the scientology brand so despised that Marty had to see the writing on the wall as far as future profits go. Bad PR on Marty's own personal name is part of it. He would lose the credibilty he had -not that it was much anyway-. And so now Marty puts the Tao out there really prominently, actually the Tao is overshadowing Scientology in that video IMO. Who'd have thought that KSW would be treated with such contempt? I'm guessing the in-laws will breathe a sigh of relief to see the emergence of the Tao too. Safe pointing oneself with the in-laws could lead to more ARC and cooperation.:biggrin:
 
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