Marty Rathbun: thoughts on Scientology and spirituality

[Andtheyalllived]

Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

:
:
I just watched some more of Marty's vid.

1. It is very much a repositioning spin. A very fundamental repositioning to the Tao. Who could argue against the Tao?

2. I still have this feeling that Wright's book was a pivot point for Marty. For all the negative positioning scientology had up to that point, Wright's book made the scientology brand so despised that Marty had to see the writing on the wall as far as future profits go. Bad PR on Marty's own personal name is part of it. He would lose the credibilty he had -not that it was much anyway-. And so now Marty puts the Tao out there really prominently, actually the Tao is overshadowing Scientology in that video IMO. Who'd have thought that KSW would be treated with such contempt? I'm guessing the in-laws will breathe a sigh of relief to see the emergence of the Tao too. Safe pointing oneself with the in-laws could lead to more ARC and cooperation.

YES! I wrote this in December, when he was starting to poke Steve Hall with a stick:

I agree with others who have said that this is a public relations mobilization in advance of Lawrence Wright's book. The spotlight's going to be on the indies, and M&M know damned well that if that spotlight hits a guy like Steve Hall, then they all look like fanatics. Instead of telling Steve personally to tone it down, all Marty has to do is push his buttons by acting reasonable, and let his fan club do the work, after Steve predictably goes off on his desperate rant.

it's brilliant, really - Marty's not on record as saying anything more radical than "judge not," but he sets off this jihad, stays above the fray, and does a little housecleaning. S Hall is now at least a little disaffected, and when he acts nuts later, Marty can point back here and say "Well, we've had our disagreements in the past..."

So now it's not "judge not," it's "Tao Tao Tao!" Marty's not on record for anything more than "I just wanna pick the best of all spiritual/thinking worlds..." And if you quote his past words or deeds, you are not giving him enough space or you're nattering or whatever.

Because he's "Evolving."

 

[AnonyMary]

Re: Marty: "I do not limit my practice... to solely the practice of Scientology."

I get what you're saying.
Do you think the people who follow his blog are already partially out? And the people who are strictly ksw just are lagging behind?

I really don't know the answer to either but from my observation, and from his past stats on the blog he's had much more noncommenting traffic to his site than actual commenters, so I gather that many reading it are not officially out but looking without 'authorization'.

Traffic rank for markrathbun.wordpress.com:

Alexa Traffic Rank:

224,154
Global Rank

96,652
Rank in US

While Marty's blog web stats are still very good, apparently the stats have been going down quite a bit. I am certain this is due in part to the contentions and eventual exodus of the KSW'ers.


Traffic Rank Change

1 month 293,283 +70,365
Change in Traffic Rank over the trailing 1 month period (A positive change means the site is getting less popular)

3 month 224,154 +96,394
Change in Traffic Rank over the trailing 3 month period (A positive change means the site is getting less popular)

Markrathbun.wordpress.com’s Regional Traffic Ranks

Country
_______
Rank

Taiwan
18,992

Australia
21,447

United States
96,652

Canada
97,289

Germany
119,523

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/markrathbun.wordpress.com#trafficstats

 

[Vittorio]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Marty is a stranger to the truth.

Once he starts telling it rather than these little half truths he drops when he knows he can no longer get away with lying and or when he realizes the official Ron is not accepting by the outside world.

Just told the whole for goodness sake and lets get everything out in the open; it's the things that remain hidden that are the most dangerous.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

... Just told the whole for goodness sake and lets get everything out in the open; it's the things that remain hidden that are the most dangerous.

That is the simplicity of it.

And the added irony is that it fully conforms to orthodox church doctrine ala a key precept from TWTH: seek to live with the truth.

Hence it can be reasonably said, they aren't even practicing scientology.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

That is the simplicity of it.

And the added irony is that it fully conforms to orthodox church doctrine ala a key precept from TWTH: seek to live with the truth.

Hence it can be reasonably said, they aren't even practicing scientology.


Mark A. Baker

According to 'The Way to Happiness' booklet, 'TWTH' "is not part of any religious doctrine."

​

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

According to 'The Way to Happiness' booklet, 'TWTH' "is not part of any religious doctrine."

​

Very True. TWTH itself stands apart and can arguably be disseminated without resort to religious evangelism. Yet that doesn't preclude the church's adoption of it as their own, as demonstrated by the courses, booklets, and auditing programs they have developed to promote it internally.

A book or doctrine need not be religious in themselves to nonetheless be adopted and promoted by a particular religion. Nor are all books by religious figures in themselves inherently reflective of a deliberate act of sectarian promotion.

One of my favorite books by the Dalai Lama is deliberately non-sectarian and accordingly not intended for the specific promotion of Buddhism as religion. See Ethics for the New Millenium. It bears in some ways a degree of similarity to TWTH.

Everything is not all black or all white, Veda. Not that I'd expect you to grasp such subtleties of distinction.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology" [Marty post: "Ron the Integral Thinker"]

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/ron-the-integral-thinker/

Author Russell Miller interviewed Richard DeMille in 1986. The interview is easy to find on the Net. DeMille worked with Hubbard, traveled with him to Cuba, and transcribed 'Science of Survival'. He left Dianetics, then Scientology, in 1953.

DeMille:

"I read the article [on Dianetics] in 'Astounding Science Fiction' and made the mistake of believing it had been written by an honest person... I got in as early as possible [August 1950] when the Foundation was opened in LA...

"[Hubbard] didn't change, ever...

"When I finally saw him [for the last time], he had written me off because I refused to obey."


Contrast this with Phil Spicker's:

"The initial Ron was all about 'If it isn't true for you it isn't true'."

 

[Infinite]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

..

Well, technically speaking . . .

. . . TWTH must be "scripture".

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Very True. TWTH itself stands apart and can arguably be disseminated without resort to religious evangelism. Yet that doesn't preclude the church's adoption of it as their own, as demonstrated by the courses, booklets, and auditing programs they have developed to promote it internally.

A book or doctrine need not be religious in themselves to nonetheless be adopted and promoted by a particular religion. Nor are all books by religious figures in themselves inherently reflective of a deliberate act of sectarian promotion.

One of my favorite books by the Dalai Lama is deliberately non-sectarian and accordingly not intended for the specific promotion of Buddhism as religion. See Ethics for the New Millenium. It bears in some ways a degree of similarity to TWTH.

Everything is not all black or all white, Veda. Not that I'd expect you to grasp such subtleties of distinction.


Mark A. Baker

Are you recommending 'TWTH'?

'TWTH' was written by Hubbard as PR cover when he was being exposed as the author of the extensive Fair Gaming tech, and the mastermind of mass Fair Gaming.

I suggest you take a good look at its "precepts." Some of them are pretty weird.

The "Church," as you like to call it, operates on Scientology "Ethics," not 'TWTH'.

Scientology "Ethics" trumps 'TWTH'.

Scientology "Ethics," itself, has its own hierarchy of doctrine, with the confidential being the highest, and the publicized being the lowest.

And below all that is "TWTH'.

The non-religious moral code idea is a gimmick, and used to sneak Hubbard's hooks into government funded activities and public schools, and the minds of its children.

In the fine print, in the back of 'TWTH' booklet, is stated, "Written by L. Ron Hubbard."

Sneaky.

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

..

Well, technically speaking . . .

. . . TWTH must be "scripture".

If you read the above closely, there's a loophole for 'TWTH' to not be "scripture."

Yet, when it serves Scientology's ends, 'TWTH' is presented as Scientology "scripture."

Yet, when it serves Scientology's ends, 'TWTH' is presented as not "scripture."

The dishonesty of Scientology is staggering.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Are you recommending 'TWTH'? ...

More to the point, you should read the book I did recommend: Ethics for the New Millenium.

Not only would it by its nature clarify what you seem to be incapable of comprehending, it just might help you greatly.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

More to the point, you should read the book I did recommend

-snip-

I suggest you re-read 'TWTH' again - carefully.

And your non-answer is noted.

'Seek to live with the truth.'

Riiiiiiiiight.

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Are you recommending 'TWTH'?

'TWTH' was written by Hubbard as PR cover when he was being exposed as the author of the extensive Fair Gaming tech, and the mastermind of mass Fair Gaming.

I suggest you take a good look at its "precepts." Some of them are pretty weird.

The "Church," as you like to call it, operates on Scientology "Ethics," not 'TWTH'.

Scientology "Ethics" trumps 'TWTH'.

Scientology "Ethics," itself, has its own hierarchy of doctrine, with the confidential being the highest, and the publicized being the lowest.

And below all that is "TWTH'.

The non-religious moral code idea is a gimmick, and used to sneak Hubbard's hooks into government funded activities and public schools, and the minds of its children.

In the fine print, in the back of 'TWTH' booklet, is stated, "Written by L. Ron Hubbard."

Sneaky.

Lone Star laughed at the above post.

Tell me, Lone Star, what is funny about sneaking 'TWTH' into public schools where it can influence school children?

I'm curious.

 

[Lone Star]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Lone Star laughed at the above post.

Tell me, Lone Star, what is funny about sneaking 'TWTH' into public schools where it can influence school children?

I'm curious.

Okay, since you asked I'll be glad to answer. I'm laughing at your delusional state of mind...at times. For instance right here you assumed that I was laughing about "sneaking TWTH into public schools". I clicked laugh at your response to Mark because you assumed that he was recommending TWTH. Learn to carefully read Veda. Read and comprehend what is written without using your delusional lenses. Quit assuming that some people here are covertly trying to push an Scn agenda.

Or disregard me and keep doing what you do. It's fine with me as it provides me some comic relief.

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Okay, since you asked I'll be glad to answer. I'm laughing at your delusional state of mind...at times. For instance right here you assumed that I was laughing about "sneaking TWTH into public schools". I clicked laugh at your response to Mark because you assumed that he was recommending TWTH. Learn to carefully read Veda. Read and comprehend what is written without using your delusional lenses. Quit assuming that some people here are covertly trying to push an Scn agenda.

Or disregard me and keep doing what you do. It's fine with me as it provides me some comic relief.

I asked a reasonable question, and was given an evasive response.

You have no idea whether or not MAB recommends 'TWTH' any more than I do.

I read very carefully.

I suggest you try being honest, and stop being petty.

 

[Lone Star]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

I asked a reasonable question, and was given an evasive response.

You have no idea whether or not MAB recommends 'TWTH' any more than I do.

I read very carefully.

I suggest you try being honest, and stop being petty.

Now you're just being arrogant and condescending. So I'm now a liar? How about saying something like, "Lone Star I think you're all wrong about what Mark said". Hell you can even say, "Lone Star you deluded fool. Mark is a sneaky snake". But no, instead you "suggest that I try being honest", which of course means you are accusing me of being dishonest.

And yes I do have an idea whether or not MAB was recommending TWTH. He can answer for himself, but I'll go out on a limb and say that he thought your question was so ridiculous it didn't deserve an answer. But actually, if you really put on your discernment cap, he did answer it.

BTW, who's being petty? All I did was click LOL on your posts, and then you asked me why. I wasn't going to make any comment until you asked for it. Of course in your delusional mindset you probably thought I was covertly pushing TWTH and wanted to get me to say so on record. Sorry not to give you that satisfaction because I regard TWTH as a joke. I thought it was a joke when I was in too because I knew the cult didn't live by it. You see I actually agree with you on the subject of this little phony book. I just don't like your delusional accusations.

 

[Veda]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

-snip-

you assumed that he was recommending TWTH.

snip-

I assumed nothing.

I asked a question as to whether he did or not, and received an evasion.

-snip-


And yes I do have an idea whether or not MAB was recommending TWTH.

-snip-

You don't know any more than I do.

End of foolish game playing with the bored Lone Star.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

That is the simplicity of it.

And the added irony is that it fully conforms to orthodox church doctrine ala a key precept from TWTH: seek to live with the truth.

Hence it can be reasonably said, they aren't even practicing scientology.

SCIENTOLOGIST
PRACTICING
SCIENTOLOGY
ALERT!!


​

You are arguing that your own deceptive propaganda is "reasonable"? LOL

"Seek(ing) to live with the truth" is Scientology? LOL

Your sordid attempts to spin and re-define what Scientology actually is are becoming really pathetic.

Have you ever even fooled one ex-Scientologist here on this board with such bizarre sophistry which would have people believe that "practicing Scientology" has something to do with being truthful or honest?

How conveniently un-clever of you to have forgotten that Hubbard directly and unequivocally trained and ordered Scientologists to: MAKE LIES. MAKE MORE LIES. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE LIES.

How disingenuous to hide the fact that for every policy or piece of "tech" where Hubbard advised being "truthful" he had another policy or piece of tech that advised lying, TR-L, shore stories, forging, deceiving and "manufacturing" evidence against innocent people.

Your post is, itself, a great example of not living with the truth, Hubbard style, and should be put on display in a gallery at the Museum of Acceptable Truths.

Baker, no ex-Scientologist who is half-way intelligent believes your complete bullshit. Lurkers beware of this guy--he is desperately trying to promote the "tech" and "truth" of L. Ron Hubbard by only selectively telling 50% the story (see Hubbard Law of Commotion*).





* Hubbard Law of Commotion: For each policy and piece of tech in Scientology, there is an equal and opposite policy and piece of tech.
​

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

Very True. TWTH itself stands apart and can arguably be disseminated without resort to religious evangelism. Yet that doesn't preclude the church's adoption of it as their own, as demonstrated by the courses, booklets, and auditing programs they have developed to promote it internally.

There is the Happiness RD based on the booklet, and its associated course and internship I believe. I received the HRD while on staff as a staff intern (Thelma Cusworth) chose me for a pc. Beyond that, there is absolutely NOTHING that I recall. TWTH exists in its own little universe. I don't recall it being referred to once as something that a staff member should follow. No Ethics Officer ever showed it to me as something I should be following. No Cramming Order I received referred to it. The only time I even saw the booklets was when I sold some to a public and ended up in the (damp) bookstore storage room investigating the hundreds of damaged copies he had paid good money for.

I don't recall TWTH being an item for staff at ITO either.

Maybe someone else here has a different experience.

Paul

 

[Lone Star]

Re: Marty: "Ron... did not immaculately conceive Dianetics and Scientology"

I assumed nothing.

I asked a question as to whether he did or not, and received an evasion.



You don't know any more than I do.

End of foolish game playing with the bored Lone Star.

You started this game, and it was indeed foolish as you are foolish. And there you go assuming again because I am actually not bored today.

So, end of foolish game playing with the delusional Veda.